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You have no proof of this, full hakai has never been bypassed by energy, only incomplete has been suffocated by greater ki

Stop this tantrum, toppo is an apprentice hakaishin, he didn't have full control over the hakai, just like Vegeta, and about Freeza and Goku withstanding such an attack is because of being a small fraction of the hakai

To date, no hakai of a God has been circumvented by ki, the only way to circumvent the hakai is to have type 1 casualty, otherwise no one.

And even if an EE is circumvented by ki, it is still a part of being, whose existence of this concept is part of it, there is no way to deny such resistance.
immortal characters = ee resistance?!
 
Anyone who is stronger than Goku can erase him with hakai. Meaning he doesn't actually resist anything. So it can be one of two things:

1. He only resisted hakai because of his ki cancelling the hakai ki erasure, which means Goku only survived it because he negated a ki technique with his own ki, meaning rather than having a resistance, he just nullified the effects of the ki like how someone can destroy a ki blast (powernull for goku too????) , which would give him a limited resistance to hakai and an explaination that because hakai is reliant on ki level, goku can survive by rising his ki level

2. Hakai's potency has nothing to do with AP which in that case Goku would not resist anything as he would've been erased by the attack had Beerus not saved him. Giving a resistance to a character that was almost erased by same hax seems wrong. Considering that if in that option no one proved that hax potency increases with AP, as hax is unrelated to AP, there's no reason for Goku to endure hakai from someone weak but get erased by the exact same ability coming from someone strong.
 
If I'm not mistaken, bleach characters had limited EE for similar reasons. Character A deletes character B. I'm deleting it because it says I'm very strong, so A character gets limited EE, and here I resist EE because I strong ,I think that EE in DB should be handled in the same .sorry if i wrong
No, they don't have limited EE for that reasoning.

Quinces specifically have limited EE because it only works on a spiritual level/mental level and only affects evil entities like Hollows, it's completely different to what's being argued here.
 
As someone pointed out before, the "weakness" logic makes the existence of UES, Verse Equalization and layers completely useless.

We treat these situations as properties of the energy systems rather than weaknesses of the ability.

I understand the opposition 's argument, but unless there are scans that state that this situation is generated by a weakness of the ability, it won't work. It may sound dumb but that's how it is.
 
As someone pointed out before, the "weakness" logic makes the existence of UES, Verse Equalization and layers completely useless.

We treat these situations as properties of the energy systems rather than weaknesses of the ability.
As I said, Goku only resisted it because hakai works directly on ki and Goku resisted with his own ki.

Even with verse equalization, an EE hax that doesn't work on ki will simply erase Goku as the only reason hakai didn't erase him is because he could overpower it's ki erasure coming from DB's energy system with his own energy. And even then, verse equalization doesn't give you resistance you don't normally have
 
As I said, Goku only resisted it because hakai works directly on ki and Goku resisted with his own ki.

Even with verse equalization, an EE hax that doesn't work on ki will simply erase Goku as the only reason hakai didn't erase him is because he could overpower it's ki erasure coming from DB's energy system with his own energy. And even then, verse equalization doesn't give you resistance you don't normally have
Hakai isn't only tied to Ki though.

If Hakai is only able to erase things with Ki, how the **** did Sidra erase inanimate objects like buildings when he erased an entire city?

Regardless of that, Ki's a textbook example of UES so no, it'd be layered hax unless proven otherwise.
 
Why the argue when almost any hax is usually bypassed by sheer AP in DB. IF you are strong enough to resist the "AP" of the hakai you wont get erased. The resistence to EE is a given in DBS and not just that.
 
Hakai isn't only tied to Ki though.

If Hakai is only able to erase things with Ki, how the **** did Sidra erase inanimate objects like buildings when he erased an entire city?
I didn't said Hakai only erases thing with ki. I said Goku only resisted hakai because his ki was able to overpower its destructive ki and that hakai is a ki based technique that can also erase stuff from existence
 
Anyone who is stronger than Goku can erase him with hakai. Meaning he doesn't actually resist anything. So it can be one of two things:

1. He only resisted hakai because of his ki cancelling the hakai ki erasure, which means Goku only survived it because he negated a ki technique with his own ki, meaning rather than having a resistance, he just nullified the effects of the ki like how someone can destroy a ki blast (powernull for goku too????) , which would give him a limited resistance to hakai and an explaination that because hakai is reliant on ki level, goku can survive by rising his ki level

2. Hakai's potency has nothing to do with AP which in that case Goku would not resist anything as he would've been erased by the attack had Beerus not saved him. Giving a resistance to a character that was almost erased by same hax seems wrong. Considering that if in that option no one proved that hax potency increases with AP, as hax is unrelated to AP, there's no reason for Goku to endure hakai from someone weak but get erased by the exact same ability coming from someone strong.
Layered Hax
 
These are the votes right now:
Agree: 21 (@Vizer04, @Kin201, @Gilad_Hyperstar, @StrymULTRA, @Lynieryz, @SummerBlue, @Shiraito983, @JustSomeWeirdo, @Damage3245, @Purgy, @Gohanblanco217, @Kachon123, @AKUTO123, @Danny33wise, @Akumasa, @Marshadow29, @Entity, @Maverick_Zero_X, @ShadowWarrior1999, @RoTt35 and @Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara)

Neutral: 1 (@thetechmaster36)

Disagree: 19 (@AguilaR202, @Stefano4444, @SirAlex09, @Maskofthedragon, @ArmBill, @Toby020, @Deceived3596, @DarkDragonMedeus, @Golden_Void, @Gogeta, @KLOL506, @TheGreatJedi13, @Guacamolefletcher, @Godernet, @Therefir, @AStrangeverse, @Quantu, @Vladimir and @Arnoldstone18)
 
Hakai: An Existence Erasure technique that can be overpowered by AP.

Smh…

I can’t believe this is the thought process of those who agree with this.

So if this gets passed a character with ZERO Ki manipulation will resist Hakai because said character can simply punch harder? This is obviously just one of the benefits of Dragon Ball’s Ki manipulation and the opposition is simply grasping straws to hold up their flawed argument.

So far this thread has produced counter arguments against the OP and better interpretation of the OP. Yet many of us cling to flawed interpretations.

It’s Bureaucrat time.
 
Smh…

I can’t believe this is the thought process of those who agree with this.

So if this gets passed a character with ZERO Ki manipulation will resist Hakai because he can simply punch harder? This is obviously just one of the benefits of Dragon Ball’s Ki manipulation and the opposition is simply grasping straws to hold up their flawed argument.

So far this thread has produced counter arguments against the OP and better interpretation of the OP. Yet many of us cling to flawed interpretations.

It’s Bureaucrat time.
Meaningless topic if crazy I think he posted this earlier because Gohan couldn't take a hakai my friend was commenting to me lol
 
Smh…

I can’t believe this is the thought process of those who agree with this.

So if this gets passed a character with ZERO Ki manipulation will resist Hakai because he can simply punch harder? This is obviously just one of the benefits of Dragon Ball’s Ki manipulation and the opposition is simply grasping straws to hold up their flawed argument.

So far this thread has produced counter arguments against the OP and better interpretation of the OP. Yet many of us cling to flawed interpretations.

It’s Bureaucrat time.
Nobody has given a solid reason why they should resist EE Hax when it completely ignores the reason why they can resist Hakai. The way they are beating Hakai is through greater amounts of Ki and Ki is not accepted to grant inherent Hax resistance.

If the way DB characters resist Hakai falls under verse equalization and other verses can do the same is a completely different argument.
 
Ninguém deu uma razão sólida pela qual eles deveriam resistir a EE Hax quando ele ignora completamente a razão pela qual eles podem resistir a Hakai. A maneira como eles estão vencendo o Hakai é através de maiores quantidades de Ki e o Ki não é aceito para conceder resistência inerente ao Hax.

Se a maneira como os personagens do DB resistem ao Hakai se enquadra na equalização de versos e outros versos podem fazer o mesmo, é um argumento completamente diferente.
Stop repeating the same arguments, I don't know how many times you've been to dinner on this subject bro, if you use your head you'll realize how clueless you are when you talk about these things.
 
Nobody has given a solid reason why they should resist EE Hax when it completely ignores the reason why they can resist Hakai. The way they are beating Hakai is through greater amounts of Ki and Ki is not accepted to grant inherent Hax resistance.

If the way DB characters resist Hakai falls under verse equalization and other verses can do the same is a completely different argument.

I just said the reason, didn’t I? You simply dismissed it when you said “Ki is not accepted to grant inherent Hax resistance”. Then why not make this a crt to get it accepted?

Ki is UES and is the basis of hax and resistances in Dragonball. If this is your main argument then the simple solution is for those with sufficient Ki mastery to resist EE hax. I don’t even think it’s Ki level because Goku resisted Sidra’s Hakai but even if it’s Ki level, it still grants resistance because it’s just an inherent property of Ki manipulation that allows it to overpower EE.

Claiming AP can overcome something Ki has is fallacious. A higher Ki mastery simply suggests a higher hax potency and resistance. This applies for not just Hakai, but for the others.
 
A higher Ki mastery simply suggests a higher hax potency and resistance. This applies for not just Hakai, but for the others.
Exactly. And Dragonball isn't the only verse that has resistance and hax potency scale with Ki level.
These people pretend like it is the only verse.

Example:
Bleach's RC and its resistance against it gets stronger with increasing AP
In Naruto mental hax like Genjutsu get stronger with stronger chakra ( Example: Sasuke putting all 9 tailed beast under a genjutsu with one look after Six pathes amp. I think in the novel it is even stated that MS Genjutsu is stronger due to transmitting more chakra.)

"B-But it's unfair it's d-double standards"
Yah no. It is consistent with how the wiki handles thing.
 
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I just said the reason, didn’t I? You simply dismissed it when you said “Ki is not accepted to grant inherent Hax resistance”. Then why not make this a crt to get it accepted?

Ki is UES and is the basis of hax and resistances in Dragonball. If this is your main argument then the simple solution is for those with sufficient Ki mastery to resist EE hax. I don’t even think it’s Ki level because Goku resisted Sidra’s Hakai but even if it’s Ki level, it still grants resistance because it’s just an inherent property of Ki manipulation that allows it to overpower EE.

Claiming AP can overcome something Ki has is fallacious. A higher Ki mastery simply suggests a higher hax potency and resistance. This applies for not just Hakai, but for the others.
" This is obviously just one of the benefits of Dragon Ball’s Ki manipulation and the opposition is simply grasping straws to hold up their flawed argument."

This isn't great reasoning for why greater amounts of Ki would grant them the ability to resist Hax. Ki isn't accepted to have natural Hax resistance in it. Every character in Dragon Ball should have EE resistance on their page if it was accepted as so.

EE Hax does not have a power level where they can just overpower it like they can with Hakai. When your putting Dragon Ball characters against characters that use EE Hax and are using verse equalization your giving DB characters the ability to resist a Hax that ignores Ki altogether or your giving the opponent's EE Hax the same weakness of Hakai. Hakai isn't as haxxed as people think it is.

Sidra's mastery > Toppo's mastery
Freiza > Sidra's Hakai Ball
Frieza < Toppo's Hakai Ball

Ki is all that matters.
 
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I have arrived.
ZM2jgZf.jpg
 
Higher Ki doesn't give you resistances automatically but it provides you with the means of developing one.
Like when Vegeta could use his Ki to form a shield to resist Hakai,
Like when Vegito formed a barrier to resist Absorption that has worked on beings with higher AP before ,
Like when Golden Frieza used the improved Ki control of his True Golden Frieza Form to dominate Hakai Energy
Like when Ganos ( U4 fighter) used his improved Ki level to develop resistance against Master roshi's Illusions which is just basic hypnosis at best and completely unrelated to ki altogether.

Assuming that every ki unrelated ability in dragonball has a weakness against Ki takes more headcanon than tassuming Ki can provide someone with the means to develop resistances against several haxes but can't be taken for granted.

This CRT would only make sense with verses like One Piece where all hax abilities have the same origin ( devil fruit) and they have Haki as a common weakness ( which was also confirmed as such)
 
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