Okay, fair. I'm not sure about that multiplier myself either.
Okay.
If you are only gonna "briefly" look at things don't make such statements, I've given walls of reasonings and evidence that go against the idea of casual Hit being God level, so for you to come here and make a comment and say that I appear to give no reasons and expect people to agree is extremely unprofessional coming from a mod. If you're not gonna read the thread properly that's cool, but don't be making comments like this judging argumentation you haven't even bothered to properly check.
It's not misleading. Whis verbatim says that Goku is far stronger than Hit and that Hit's abillity doesn't work because it's only effective against people near his level.
DDM and myself in this thread so far.
Your only retort beyond that was that Hit was being damaged by Base and SSJ Goku damaging Hit. And I already addressed this below:
And cool it with your high and mighty "this comes off extremely poor coming from a mod." Your argument and evidence is simply not sufficient in my view, and you just kinda have to accept that unless you've got something new to share.
Doesn't change other stuff, though, like Vegeta's weakened SSB not even being less than 1% of its full power and thus making him still 2-C.
I'd say one more because it's Dragon Ball and all
The issue is that initially you made the FALSE CLAIM that I gave no argumentation. My point is that if you aren't going to properly review things don't speak. It's the bare-minimum that's expected of a mod. Also note how even this lie is verifiably false, as I've presented much more than "Hit took damage against base or SSJ Goku", which anyone can just look up.
My issue isn't whether or not you agree with my arguments. What I do however take an issue with is you making objectively false claim that I presented no reasoning in my comments and just expected people to agree with me despite not having properly reviewed the thread by your own admission, and seemingly only having seen my very latest sum-up. Which is indeed quite unprofessional. But hey, maybe that's just me.
I read your post and I'm not seeing any new arguments. Just the same stuff we've already been over. You won't budge on those points. I won't budge on mine.
I've already shown that God Goku can instantly beat 4-B opponents like Trunks without resorting to lethal force and we've seen characters in DB instantly knock out far weaker opponents all the time. You can see this at any World Tournament they have participated in.
That's true, but it's also equally true that there are times when characters fail to knock out weaker opponents too despite being vastly more powerful than them.
You have any particular examples in mind? I can't think of any right now besides characters like Freeza (noted for their durability) and characters with regeneration powers.
I did actually. Maybe instead of going Ad Nauseam actually address my points?
Already addressed, no counter on your end as of now:
Goku's attack didn't put a single scratch on Trunks and Trunks had no issues moving afterwards, with Trunks saying he is fine right after the strike. Not putting a scratch on your opponent and them being fine does not constitute to a "one-shot" unless your definition of one-shot is completely irrelevant to the Hit fight. And I've already slapped up the "fight ended" point so I don't see why you're bringing that up.
I view it as an argument weak enough that it falls apart on its own. And Clover seems to be addressing it as is.
So is DBS Manga Goku 2-C in base for the black arc or is he still 4-B all around? And should Frieza be 2-C in base because he fought Beyond Goku?
Damn near every character in Super says Hi.
vsbattles.fandom.com
vsbattles.fandom.com
why is Piccolo of all characters locked?I finished with almost all of the profiles. I just need Piccolo to be unlocked and we're good
Piccolo (Dragon Ball)
Piccolo is the reincarnation of King Piccolo, born with the simple goal of killing Son Goku and avenging his father at any cost. A wise, expert strategist, he was initially one of Goku's most ruthless enemies, but after training and bonding with his son, Gohan, in preparation for the arrival of...Piccolo (Dragon Ball Super)
Piccolo is the reincarnation of King Piccolo, born with the simple goal of killing Son Goku and avenging his father at any cost. A wise, expert strategist, he was initially one of Goku's most ruthless enemies, but after training and bonding with his son, Gohan, in preparation for the arrival of...
The powerscaling isn't without its flaws, that's for sure, but I don't think there's enough support in the manga for Goku Black's SSR being as huge jump in power as that. The most logical explanation is that despite looking like a Super Saiyan, Goku Black must have been using Goku's power equivalent to a Super Saiyan God when he fought Vegeta in his post-heal rematch. Then he surpasses Super Saiyan God with his Super Saiyan Rose transformation.
That's the thing, though. I'm going as far back as the U6 Saga, so this supports the idea that they didn't get much stronger between their two trips to the future
Okay. So you're basically saying here that SS Black is 2-C post-Zenkai.
This makes little sense to me when it is stated that Rose is simply SSGSS. If Post-Zenkai Black scales to 2-C in just SS1 then goes Rose then that's a 160,000x power increase. When the only statement for a power decrease from using SSGSS is that it can nerf the user's power to <10% and under SSG which would be <2%. So a finite decrease in power that is still compared to God rather than any mortal form.
So Goku's power is the reason he can contend with Blue Vegeta with just Super Saiyan? Really? Even though it's stated that it's because Black can abuse Zenkais? Even though Shin explains that Black specifically sought out a version of Zamasu who had healing powers so he could abuse this ability?
Vegeta is in base form there and the ability to sense energy doesn't magically grant you the ability to tell when someone is suppressed or not.
Yeah...because God is a weaker form than Blue. It is a 'downgraded' form in terms of power. If we say Blue Vegeta were relative to Rose Black here then Black would still make the same comment of Vegeta losing his mind by using a weaker form. So this statement doesn't mean much.
Yeah. Because God is a much weaker form than SSGSS. And by using SSGSS in bursts to maximise efficiency and power Vegeta has the advantage against someone using SSGSS who isn't doing the same.
This isn't stated anywhere in any of the pages you posted. Or anywhere else that I can see.
And where does Super Saiyan Black stand?
The inherent problem with this logic is that Vegeta should be far stronger than Goku. On the basis that he trained an additional year that Goku didn't get. And it's clear his training wasn't as simple as figuring out God and Blue, he pretty clearly pushed his body to the breaking point in there. Hell, Vegeta should be stronger than Goku even before the HTC. Earlier in the saga we see FPSS2 Trunks matches SS3 Goku and yet it's stated SS2 Vegeta has the advantage over Black even with Trunks saying Black has grown even stronger since he last fought him. Trunks even says it's been a 'while' since Black last used it, meaning Black was kicking him around in base form for some time.
Can't respond to everything here at the moment, but we clearly don't treat it as just a 160,000x power increase.
Yes. Which means the idea of Blue weakening below 2-C is nonsensical. Because the multiplier of God should be far greater than 160,000x. If we were treating this logically then God would be accepted as a form that multiplies your power infinitely. Regardless Super Saiyan Black inherently needs 2-C power to challenge Blue Vegeta.
The 160,000x multiplier is not 'selective'. It is an extreme lowball figure accepted by the wiki. It is our 'minimum' for God's power boost.
