- 112
- 70
- Thread starter
- #41
Sure, I don't have any problem
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
DRAGON BALL SPEED UPGRADE :O
- Thread starter Tom4t0GG789
- Start date
- 112
- 70
- Thread starter
- #42
- 3,441
- 2,216
Okey. I've already finished Z's Blog
DRAGON BALL: REMAKE SPEED BLOG
vsbattles.fandom.com
What suggests Second form Frieza is as fast or faster than (Post-Gravity Training) Kaio-ken x10 Goku? The only form we are absolutely sure Goku is lower than is Frieza's Third Form, where he states this:
Third form should just be >1080c
First Form Frieza should upscale from Kaio-ken x2 Goku since he has a higher power level (530,000 > 180,000), and his second form should be x2 that. This is what it should be now:
- Son Goku (Post-Gravity Training): >108c (10x faster than his previous base, also stated here)
- Kaioken x2 Goku: >216c (Has a Battle Power of 180,000)
- Kaioken x10 Goku: >1080c (Is now capable of using Kaioken x10)
- Frieza first form: >216c (His Battle Power of 530,000 exceeds Kaio-ken x2 Goku's Battle Power of 180,000)
- Frieza second form: >432c (Second form multiplies x2 the first form having a million units by doubling its 530,000)
- Frieza third form: >1080c (Goku thought that he wouldn't against him even if he was completely healed, meaning he scales above him even with Kaio-ken x10)
- 112
- 70
- Thread starter
- #44
I put Frieza Second Form >1080c because if he doubles the power of Frieza's first form which has 530,000 units then he would have 1,060,000 UnitsWhat suggests Second form Frieza is as fast or faster than (Post-Gravity Training) Kaio-ken x10 Goku? The only form we are absolutely sure Goku is lower than is Frieza's Third Form, where he states this:
Third form should just be >1080c
First Form Frieza should upscale from Kaio-ken x2 Goku since he has a higher power level (530,000 > 180,000), and his second form should be x2 that. This is what it should be now:
- Son Goku (Post-Gravity Training): >108c (10x faster than his previous base, also stated here)
- Kaioken x2 Goku: >216c (Has a Battle Power of 180,000)
- Kaioken x10 Goku: >1080c (Is now capable of using Kaioken x10)
- Frieza first form: >216c (His Battle Power of 530,000 exceeds Kaio-ken x2 Goku's Battle Power of 180,000)
- Frieza second form: >432c (Second form multiplies x2 the first form having a million units by doubling its 530,000)
- Frieza third form: >1080c (Goku thought that he wouldn't against him even if he was completely healed, meaning he scales above him even with Kaio-ken x10)
Superior to Goku (Post-Gravity Training) with Kaioken x10 where he would have 900,000 units
- 112
- 70
- Thread starter
- #45
Why do you only take Kaioken x2? If Goku is able to use Kaioken x10, for obvious reasons he could use Kaioken x3 and x4 more freely
- Son Goku (Post-Gravity Training): >108c (Battle Power of 90,000)
- Kaioken x2: >216c (Battle power of 180,000)
- Kaioken x3: >324c (Battle Power of 270,000)
- Kaioken x4: >432c (Battle Power of 360,000)
- Kaioken x10: >1080c (Battle Power of 900,000)
- 3,441
- 2,216
Hypothetical power levels via multipliers were rejected in a previous thread
The numbers between 2 and 10 aren't that notable for his scaling, nor is it important for other characters
- 112
- 70
- Thread starter
- #47
Well, according to the official website, Frieza Second Form has a million units
And as the manga says, Goku with Kaioken x2 has 180,000 units and in the base he has 90,000, I don't consider it hypothetical, because these are already proposed data :V
Last edited:
- 3,441
- 2,216
I’m referring to just Kaio-ken Frieza is fine
You need a statement for the 900,000 unit
- 112
- 70
- Thread starter
- #49
I don't know if this counts, but there is a thread where it seems that it was approved that Goku with Kaioken x10 is inferior to Frieza second form
Removing Goku scaling to Second Form Frieza (Dragon Ball Z)
Dragon Ball Z's Son Goku's third key (AKA Ginyu Fight Goku) has this AP justification: Dwarf Star level (Easily defeated Recoome, Burter, and Jeice), up to at least Dwarf Star level+ with Kaio-ken (Stated he was capable of performing a Kaio-ken x10. Surpassed Ginyu in power, leading to him...
Last edited:
- 3,441
- 2,216
Kaio-ken x10 Goku doesn't scale to Second Form Frieza because there isn't enough evidence to say so, and likewise for Frieza too. The issue that Damage's thread covered was the justification for Goku scaling to Second Form Frieza, which was weakI don't know if this counts, but there is a thread where it seems that it was approved that Goku with Kaioken x10 is inferior to Frieza second formI don't know if this counts, but there is a thread where it seems that it was approved that Goku with Kaioken x10 is inferior to Frieza second form
Removing Goku scaling to Second Form Frieza (Dragon Ball Z)
Dragon Ball Z's Son Goku's third key (AKA Ginyu Fight Goku) has this AP justification: Dwarf Star level (Easily defeated Recoome, Burter, and Jeice), up to at least Dwarf Star level+ with Kaio-ken (Stated he was capable of performing a Kaio-ken x10. Surpassed Ginyu in power, leading to him...vsbattles.com
- 112
- 70
- Thread starter
- #51
Well the scan where Goku says he "could" be of help it can be interpreted that it is minimally comparable to Frieza Second form
Also the problem that i can see here is that with this scale Frieza Third form is 5 times stronger and faster than Frieza Second form and as I said, I'm relating speed to the attack power blog, but that level seems strange to me for Frieza.
- 3,441
- 2,216
All that we're told in the scan is that if everyone holds off against Frieza long enough until Goku arrives, they'll likely win or even the odds in their favor
We use 2x from the "manyfold" statement as a lowball for Frieza's AP. It can be even higher we're just not given an exact value
- 112
- 70
- Thread starter
- #53
Well, checking there is also another scan where Goku says that he "Can't wait to heal" I mean he interprets that he could do somethingAll that we're told in the scan is that if everyone holds off against Frieza long enough until Goku arrives, they'll likely win or even the odds in their favor
We use 2x from the "manyfold" statement as a lowball for Frieza's AP. It can be even higher we're just not given an exact value
But anyway, do you have the thread where the "supposed" power levels of Dragon Ball were rejected? :3
- 3,441
- 2,216
We see a couple times in the series where characters assume that they could take on a threat and then fail doing so. Goku also could've striked him off guard, used the spirit bomb, or be reckless and use Kaio-ken beyond the regular 10x for the sake of his friends (like how he used Kaio-ken x4 in the Saiyan Arc, even though he could only use it up to x2 normally)Well, checking there is also another scan where Goku says that he "Can't wait to heal" I mean he interprets that he could do something
Dragon Ball AP, sad downgrade (Raditz/Saiyan/Namek Saga Tiers only)
This'll only affect Raditz to Namek Saga characters, anyone who is First Form Frieza level and up don't get affected so we don't have to worry about how other threads affecting this. The method on how we backscale is based on hypothetical power levels with multipliers (Hypothetical Kaio-ken x10...
- 112
- 70
- Thread starter
- #55
Okay, your opinion seems concrete to me, although in any case on Namek I consider that the Power Units are more coherentWe see a couple times in the series where characters assume that they could take on a threat and then fail doing so. Goku also could've striked him off guard, used the spirit bomb, or be reckless and use Kaio-ken beyond the regular 10x for the sake of his friends (like how he used Kaio-ken x4 in the Saiyan Arc, even though he could only use it up to x2 normally)
Dragon Ball AP, sad downgrade (Raditz/Saiyan/Namek Saga Tiers only)
This'll only affect Raditz to Namek Saga characters, anyone who is First Form Frieza level and up don't get affected so we don't have to worry about how other threads affecting this. The method on how we backscale is based on hypothetical power levels with multipliers (Hypothetical Kaio-ken x10...
But if this was already accepted by the VSBW, then I will make the respective changes, but I will also include those of the Fusion Saga
PS: Why do you put Gotenks Base superior/comparable to Majin Vegeta? When it is mentioned that he managed to surpass Vegeta's strength after his training in the RoSaT in Daizenshuu 7
- 3,441
- 2,216
That settlement was made long before I joined the wiki
- 112
- 70
- Thread starter
- #57
For the moment I'm using this model, but I'll ask a question in a separate thread to ask why.
- 31,633
- 34,652
I don't see any issues with 2nd form Frieza being stronger than Kaioken x10 Goku (During battle with Ginyu), he mentions needing both his full power + Vegeta's help to take on 2nd form and said those would be absolutely nothing against 3rd form iirc. Not to mention, we have PL listings of 1st form Frieza being between what Kaioken x5 and Kaioken x6 would be. 2nd form Frieza is also stated outright to have a PL exceeding 1000000 (And while Anime isn't canon, he also states that even the Over 1 million isn't even 1% of his power). Not to mention, each of his first 3 forms are implied to be twice as strong as each other, so there is consistency. Also, if we went the route of 1st form Frieza only being comparable to Kaioken x2 or 2nd form being above Kaioken x4, we'd have to do the opposite assumption which may lead to highballing Goku and Ginyu's AP ratings; both of which come from downscaling from Frieza's 1st form.
PL's still treat A>B>C for power and speed generally, so it would be awkward to use one and not the other. If we lowball Frieza's speed, we'd have to highball Goku's AP. And if we want to lowball Goku's AP, we'd have to highball Frieza's speed. Doing the latter is more consistent with the official PL listings. Treating a PL of effectively being 900,000 as stronger and faster than that of 1,060,000 or faster but weaker would both be weird. So placing 2nd form Frieza as above x10 Ginyu era Goku seemed like the least bad option.
PL's still treat A>B>C for power and speed generally, so it would be awkward to use one and not the other. If we lowball Frieza's speed, we'd have to highball Goku's AP. And if we want to lowball Goku's AP, we'd have to highball Frieza's speed. Doing the latter is more consistent with the official PL listings. Treating a PL of effectively being 900,000 as stronger and faster than that of 1,060,000 or faster but weaker would both be weird. So placing 2nd form Frieza as above x10 Ginyu era Goku seemed like the least bad option.
- 112
- 70
- Thread starter
- #59
The truth is that your conclusion makes more sense
It wouldn't make sense for Goku with Kaioken x4 to have a speed similar to that of Frieza's second form
So it would be preferable for Frieza's second form > Goku Kaioken x10
- 112
- 70
- Thread starter
- #60
Okay I already finished the blog of speed to DBZ
For the moment I will wait for the changes of AP DBS
DRAGON BALL: REMAKE SPEED BLOG
vsbattles.fandom.com
- 238
- 130
Wouldn't Frieza be slower thus making Future Trunks (base on the blog at least) slower as well? Since he's equal to Kaioken times 20 in 50%, 100% should be 2x faster or 86400c, I'm not touching on the fact that Mecha Frieza was confident he could beat Goku on namek after his upgrade, that's a whole other stuffOkay I already finished the blog of speed to DBZ
For the moment I will wait for the changes of AP DBS
DRAGON BALL: REMAKE SPEED BLOG
- 112
- 70
- Thread starter
- #62
Do you want me to add a section of Future Trunks Pre-3 years of training? Because I wouldn't see the reason, I mean in Trunks' profile it says that he is not far from Goku from Yadrat, which would agree with the fact that his level of Gohan is not far away
- 238
- 130
I gues it's true, it would only be added for Frieza honestly
- 112
- 70
- Thread starter
- #64
Okey I'm going to add it
RoninSlayer200
He/Him- 167
- 229
so uhh, why hasn't this been applied?
- 3,441
- 2,216
I MIGHT apply it in some time
- 112
- 70
- Thread starter
- #67
I think they gave me permission... But I don't know how to make the changes :'v
