Removing Multiple Dragon Ball Resistances

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Goku doesn't actually resist EE, he only resist hakai, and even then only if the hakai is weaker than him, since he'd be erased if he was weaker despite the resistancee

Even in a VS match scenario, anyone with a higher AP will just erase Goku because their EE don't care about AP and because they're stronger, which defeats the purpose of hax

Goku would still get erased in a VS thread by an EE hax whose potency isn't reliant on AP

Goku would also get Time stopped bt any time hax that isn't Hit's time skip, as these don't care about AP, especially when the manga confirms it (and while it wasn't directly said in the anime,

 

[KLOL506]

Goku would also get Time stopped bt any time hax that isn't Hit's time skip, as these don't care about AP, especially when the manga confirms it (and while it wasn't directly said in the anime,

FOR THE LAST TIME.

DO NOT USE MANGA LOGIC ON ANIME. The DBS Manga and Anime are separate canons.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

FOR THE LAST TIME.

DO NOT USE MANGA LOGIC ON ANIME. The DBS Manga and Anime are separate canons.

I literally said that the anime implies that too. Take a look again before screaming in text

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Sevil and SirAlex argument makes sense to me

Disagree FRA

 

[KLOL506]

I literally said that the anime implies that too. Take a look again before screaming in text

Anime implying it isn't confirmation unless it's shown blatantly like in the manga.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Anime implying it isn't confirmation unless it's shown blatantly like in the manga.

Feats > Statements. And we directly see it happen. Besides, you still did not answer to any of my arguments

 

[Quasar002]

Goku in his base form was able to withstand the hakai for a while, unlike Zamasu who was quickly erased. And we know that hakai was able to overwhelm frieza,making it require enormous effort to master Hakai, plus of course, we know that cider is absurdly beyond goku's base form.

 

[Quasar002]

I literally said that the anime implies that too. Take a look again before screaming in text

Well then we should stop getting mentioned manga stuff here. Focus only on the anime, mentioning the manga here doesn't even serve as a support, honestly.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Frieza actually learned to control hakai thus he wasn't erased. And of course being able to control it doesn't mean he can control it when it is far beyond his capacity to control. This is similar to saying you don't get soul manip res when you can resist soul manip but same soul manip failed to manipulate someones soul because it is too big for its capacity.

And yet frieza also survived hakai from toppo which is beyond his capacity.

Hit time abilities also worked with base jiren who absolutely fodders him until Jiren decided to just muscle it out but struggling still.

Some can be attributed to weakness in abilities while some cannot be hence people gain resistance to some while the others do not.

And this crt has been rehashed and argued over and over again ad nauseum. There should be a discussion rule about this already at this point.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Further more. If you can nullify someones ability by having control or manipulation as such it can be listed as resistance if they can use it as a form of defense. Its just that its not an innate resistance so abilities that takes effect instantly can still affect them.

Although clearly frieza and goku feat seems to have a small innate resistance to not end up like zamasu

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Well then we should stop getting mentioned manga stuff here. Focus only on the anime, mentioning the manga here doesn't even serve as a support, honestly.

Again, I said like how it is in the manga, the anime also provides evidence for this. I didn't say manga scales to anime

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Further more. If you can nullify someones ability by having control or manipulation as such it can be listed as resistance if they can use it as a form of defense. Its just that its not an innate resistance so abilities that takes effect instantly can still affect them.

Still, they would be erased by an EE that doesn't care about this limitation. They only "resist" it because hakai has this weakness of not working on stronger foes. But that wouldn't help against EE that erases regardless of AP

Although clearly frieza and goku feat seems to have a small innate resistance to not end up like zamasu

They simply overpowered it with their ki, but they can still very much be erased by someone like Beerus if he wished to do it (and he even warns Frieza immediately after he saves Goku from being destroyed), meaning that they don't even resist hakai, just are strong enough to overcome a weaker hakai user

 

[Quasar002]

Again, I said like how it is in the manga, the anime also provides evidence for this. I didn't say manga scales to anime

I understood. but I wasn't just referring to you, I was referring to everyone who was casting the manga for the anime in some way.

 

[Quasar002]

Still, they would be erased by an EE that doesn't care about this limitation. They only "resist" it because hakai has this weakness of not working on stronger foes. But that wouldn't help against EE that erases regardless of AP

They simply overpowered it with their ki, but they can still very much be erased by someone like Beerus if he wished to do it (and he even warns Frieza immediately after he saves Goku from being destroyed), meaning that they don't even resist hakai, just are strong enough to overcome a weaker hakai user

This "Goku is able to resist the hakai of some gods like cider, but would not survive Bills'" just wouldn't prove that bills's hakai is a layer above the hakai of sidra?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

This "Goku is able to resist the hakai of some gods like cider, but would not survive Bills'" just wouldn't prove that bills's hakai is a layer above the hakai of sidra?

No. It just proves that hakai is reliant on AP and that's its weakness. It's because Goku doesn't have an innate resistsnce which makes it not a resistance feat, as Goku would still get erased by EE that doesn't have this limitation

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

No. It just proves that hakai is reliant on AP and that's its weakness. It's because Goku doesn't have an innate resistsnce which makes it not a resistance feat, as Goku would still get erased by EE that doesn't have this limitation

Yes but all ability have limitation else they become NLF. If you're arguing that he would be erased by EE that doesn't have that limitation because other verse treats it that way then you're simply revising content base on match up interpretation not base on profile accuracy.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Yes but all ability have limitation else they become NLF.

Yes, but the point you ignore is that hakai has this limitation which allows Goku to overpower it if it comes from a weak user. That same limitation doesn'r exist for other EE haxes so Goku would still get erased by them

Arguing Goku has literally infinite layers of resistence (as according to this logic everytime Goku powers up above someonw with resistence he gets another layer above their as he can overpower hakai they can't and it just spirals on to no end), in NLF as of itself, especially when the Goku very much proves that Goku can definitely be erased

However, Beerus will erase him despite everything else, meaning even hakai he doesn't resist if it comes from someone stronger. That means he doesn't have an innate resistance and this limitatiom is simply a weakness of hakai that it can be overpowered and negated by stronger beings

If you're arguing that he would be erased by EE that doesn't have that limitation because other verse treats it that way then you're simply revising content base on match up interpretation not base on profile accuracy.

That's because Goku doesn't actually resist EE, but rather just resist the hakai ability.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Yes then argue that in the match up not in the profile. Vsdebate exist for a reason. There is no reason to remove it specially when feats like that are pivotal to the storyline and not classifying it is only making the profile inaccurate withour notes and explanations

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Prove this is a weakness of those abilities and not a property of ki

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

The "weakness" argument went into the trash bin the moment UES were introduced, pretty sure.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Yes then argue that in the match up not in the profile. Vsdebate exist for a reason. There is no reason to remove it specially when feats like that are pivotal to the storyline and not classifying it is only making the profile inaccurate withour notes and explanations

Sure, but this can also be written as limited resistence, as even hakai they don't fully resist, so why should they resist a hax that doesn't even care about AP when the only reason they resist that hax is AP in the first place?

And profiles should index accurate information. If the profile doesn't say a thing that should be noted, then it's a problem

I'm fine with just writing the resistence as limited resistence to EE for overpowering hakai, but can still get EE by the exact same hax from a stronger user, especially when nowhere it's mention a potency of the hax increases with power

 

[SirAlex09]

Sure, but this can also be written as limited resistence, as even hakai they don't fully resist,

XD You know the difference between immunity and resistance, yes?

 

[Vizer04]

Actually, he should be able to.

Why?

 

[Golden_Void]

The ToP having a no-killing rule doesn't mean anything unless you can prove that Toppo has the ability to hinder the Hakai's erasure ability to where it can erase stuff like rocks and such, but can't erase individuals.

The rule means everything. It makes no sense to turn into a god and erase the first person you see just to get disqualified as a result. That's a negative risk/reward scenario. It's the same reason why Hit didn't insta-kill Kunshi with his heart punch.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

XD You know the difference between immunity and resistance, yes?

I didn't said they're immune, but they clearly do not resist the same hax when it comes from someone strong like Beerus. Meaning their resistence is only limited

 

[Quasar002]

No. It just proves that hakai is reliant on AP and that's its weakness. It's because Goku doesn't have an innate resistsnce which makes it not a resistance feat, as Goku would still get erased by EE that doesn't have this limitation

I disagree. Base Goku is infinitely inferior to Sidra and even so he endured his Hakai for a certain time, unlike Zamasu who was quickly erased. How the hell was the hakai mocked because the ap was bigger, since the cider is 2-C low and the base goku is only 3-A?

 

[Quasar002]

And I also think that ki has its own properties and not that it's a weakness towards some abilities.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I disagree. Base Goku is infinitely inferior to Sidra and even so he endured his Hakai for a certain time, unlike Zamasu who was quickly erased. How the hell was the hakai mocked because the ap was bigger, since the cider is 2-C low and the base goku is only 3-A?

Uhm, DBS does not treat Low 2-C as infinitely stronger than 3-A.

 

[SirAlex09]

I didn't said they're immune, but they clearly do not resist the same hax when it comes from someone strong like Beerus. Meaning their resistence is only limited

Or....it is simply layered

 

[Golden_Void]

Energy of destruction =/= hakai that bypasses physicals

 

[Kin201]

And I also think that ki has its own properties and not that it's a weakness towards some abilities.

And Hakai can be overcome by one powering up or using stronger ki blasts. It is pretty blatant that Jiren can neg Hakai the same way Frieza and Vegeta did.

 

[SirAlex09]

Energy of destruction =/= hakai that bypasses physicals

My bad..so all the times when Toppo spams HAKAI and releases Energy of destruction it was probably Itachi's genjutsu.

 

[Golden_Void]

My bad..so all the times when Toppo spams HAKAI and releases Energy of destruction it was probably Itachi's genjutsu.

Bruh. Hakai is Japanese for destroy, its not that deep. I've added pictures this time

=/=

 

[Quasar002]

Uhm, DBS does not treat Low 2-C as infinitely stronger than 3-A.

anyway we know that base goku is absurdly inferior to sidra. Does anyone really think goku in his base form could do anything in a god of destruction? lol

 

[SirAlex09]

Bruh. Hakai is Japanese for destroy, its not that deep. I've added pictures this time

You don't say. It's head canon to assume Energy of Destruction =/= Hakai.

 

[SirAlex09]

anyway we know that base goku is absurdly inferior to sidra. Does anyone really think goku in his base form could do anything in a god of destruction? lol

They are grasping at straws at this point. 2 Staff have disagreed + numerous others.

 

[Derpmaster9000]

They are grasping at straws at this point. 2 Staff have disagreed + numerous others.

Dragonball: The Downplayers Strike Back.

 

[SummerBlue]

Hakai has an obvious weakness to getting overpowered by Ki. It's the reason why they can resist it. Ki based attacks can block, destroy, and overpower a ki based existence erasure technique. Why would they resist EE hax when it completely ignores Ki? Answer that please.

From the Hax page
"Hax is a catch-all term for abilities that can be used to ignore/bypass one or more of a target's statistics, rendering them irrelevant."

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Yeah, it's a specific weakness for hakai that AP allows the user to negate it. That is not a resistance feat, it's clearly portrayed as a weakness for hakai, especially when the same characters that "resist" hakai are terrified of being erased by the exact same technique done from stronger foes

And unless there's proof, AP increase doesn't increase hax potency, as by definition hax is unrelated to AP. Hakai is clearly an AP based "hax" and that's its weakness. Saying that Goku has infinite layers of resistence because he powered up is NLF (since you can just say that each time he powers up even by a little he gains a new "layer", which quickly spiral into out of control)

I would be fine with limited resistence though, since it should be made clear he only resist hakai, but will be erased by someone like GP or Zeno

 

[Vizer04]

I disagree. Base Goku is infinitely inferior to Sidra and even so he endured his Hakai for a certain time, unlike Zamasu who was quickly erased. How the hell was the hakai mocked because the ap was bigger, since the cider is 2-C low and the base goku is only 3-A?

Sidra is much weaker than Beerus and Goku is much stronger than Zamasu.

Besides, Sidra's EE was definitely affecting Goku, who would've died if he wasn't saved by Beerus.