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Re Zero Discussion Thread: Season 3 is Real

VortechsTG said:
I think it’s just that they're nigh-omniscient and try to control things as best as they can. The script stuff just seems like an analogy for their ideal sequence of events.
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Yeah I agree, that's why I said if its take literally. I do wonder how powerful they are though. The implications from stride seem to suggest Volcanica and Od laguna are observers, so they must be god tiers.
 
I think Petra in the final arc is gonna be High 1-A, but you all are not ready for this conversation.
 
Noticed that the scan previously used for the (now removed) madness manipulation that the Witches had was an older, less accurate translation.

The newer translation specifically mentions that it was Echidna's miasma that can drive people to suicide, not just her "wickedness and madness", and that the other Witches produce the same miasma.

“I’m glad. My proposal is simple. 30 seconds is all I need. I’ll go with you without fighting back if you are able to stand in front of me for 30 seconds without anything happening to you. Since it seems interesting too.”

“Ha. What’s up with that? Do you think something like that will be enough to scare us…?”

“—Well then, the 30 second countdown begins now.”

The moment she perceived that they had accepted her terms, Echidna stroked her long-white hair, narrowed her dark eyes, and glared at the men.

“───”

All of the men looked like they had no idea what had just happened. In their eyes, it must have looked like the child in front of them who looked to be around 10 years old had suddenly turned into a beautiful girl with white hair. However, before the men could get an answer to their question, they started succumbing to the abnormality that assaulted them one after another.

“Kah…ku.”

The man holding the machete fell to his knees. His eyes darted around all over the place, not focusing on any one thing, and then began foaming at the mouth. A similar phenomenon occurred not only to him, but to all the men surrounding her as well. The eighteen men in Echidna’s line of sight were unable to resist her Witch’s Miasma and thus in great agony.

The men scratched and tore at their necks, rolled their eyes back into their heads, blew foam out of their mouths, convulsed, choked on their tongues, split their own heads open with their weapons, buried their heads in the snow, and died in agony in various other ways.

“—Exactly thirty seconds.”

Having finished counting the 30 seconds she’d promised them, Echidna looked around. There was nothing but men lying motionless in their own blood and vomit. Unfortunately, there hadn’t been any among them who could endure the thirty seconds of hell and qualify to be the Sage that could reign over the six Witches.

Echidna looked back at the fallen men, then closed her eyes and thought of the boy with black hair, of the boy who remained unaffected while being surrounded by the Witches covered in miasma—though he probably didn’t even realize how abnormal it was to be able to do that. - The Witches After Tea Party
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Oh, i was the one that removed that ability.

And Eminent doing a good job as always.
Don't think that would change things of the argument.
 
Whether it's madness or not (I think it is, stemming from fear) I think the new scan makes it clear that Echidna is in fact capable of this. It was stated to be Echidna's miasma, and thus the Witches in the Pyroxene Crystal have nothing to do with it. Echidna cannot use the powers of the other Witches.

The other thing that it makes clear to me is that Witches- or at least the ones that try to interact with people- actively suppress their miasma (as Echidna says she let her Witchy nature slip through). And while she suppresses it people who meet her vomit (Garfiel, Roswaal, etc), when she intentionally exudes miasma people just kill themself as seen here. Omega is even better at hiding it due to the body and soul being so different.
 
Zabazab said:
Whether it's madness or not (I think it is, stemming from fear) I think the new scan makes it clear that Echidna is in fact capable of this. It was stated to be Echidna's miasma, and thus the Witches in the Pyroxene Crystal have nothing to do with it. Echidna cannot use the powers of the other Witches.
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Ok, but when i made the CRT, i make sure to say that only Echidna would still have the madness manipulation, like she still have that on her pa-
Oh! She don't have MM anymore...:unsure:
Thas't weird.
 
Very much no. All those 18 guys killed themselves due to maddening terror, they were not killed outright just by Miasma.

The only Witch with arguable death hax is Carmilla. I'm not familiar enough with wiki standards to say if she qualifies though.
 
 
Fezzih_007 said:
Looking on the page for the power, most likely not.
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It looks like it'd fit the second listed manifestation, "the direct cessation of biological functions".

Death Manipulation is the ability to directly induce death in beings, objects or even concepts via supernatural means. This can manifest as the inexplicable death of an individual, the direct cessation of biological functions, dispersal of life force and more, being able to affect anything from plant and animal life to possibly even abstract forces and concepts.
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Thinking about the fact that Roswaal's full-body Fa Jin is ten times stronger than a normal blow, while still attacking organs & bypassing durability, and Marcos just took it like a champ.
 
Looks impressive, but I believe that '10 yards' is a localization, and the actual value is 10 metres.
 
Zabazab said:
Thinking about the fact that Roswaal's full-body Fa Jin is ten times stronger than a normal blow, while still attacking organs & bypassing durability, and Marcos just took it like a champ.
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Hm. If that is official multiplier, I am pretty sure we can ad that to Roswaal's AP section as "8-B normally, 8-A with Fa Jin, and 7-B with Magic".
Celestial_Pegasus said:
Just started vol 22, and saw a feat for Shaula which could be interesting.

Ended up being a Class M lifting feat, that is unless i did something wrong.
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Hm. I think the math checks out, imo.
Celestial_Pegasus said:
Either way it would still be class m, so doesn't really make much difference.

Still waiting on that Fanta Puck calc, but they seem busy with Toaru.
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And yep. Although, I think I did a minor quick calc on it, and got a lower result than Willhelm and Cecilus' cloud feats, but I might've gotten smth wrong.
 
FantaRin_The_First said:
Hm. If that is official multiplier, I am pretty sure we can ad that to Roswaal's AP section as "8-B normally, 8-A with Fa Jin, and 7-B with Magic".
Click to expand...
It's official yes, but only for a full-body Fa Jin. A normal Fa Jin performed with the palm should be = to his normal ap while aiming for the organs, and a full-body Fa Jin requires your entire chest or back to be touching the opponent, but it is indeed 10x stronger while still aiming for the organs.


FantaRin_The_First said:
And yep. Although, I think I did a minor quick calc on it, and got a lower result than Willhelm and Cecilus' cloud feats, but I might've gotten smth wrong.
Click to expand...
Hm. A bit sad then considering the area they managed to clear in an instant, common Puck L

The only other Puck feat that comes to mind is when he made it snow all the way to the Capital from Roswaal's mansion. It wasn't a full-blown snowstorm but the range was massive.
 
Noticed that in Volume 4 Subaru describes the Dragon Carriage as moving at 60 miles per hour, while in Volume 8 he describes Patrasche as moving at 60 kilometres per hour, which seemed weird.

Looking at the JP text for Volume 4, the Dragon Carriage is decribed as moving at 100 kilometres per hour, which is indeed very roughly 60 miles per hour.

I don't actually have the JP version of Volume 8 to check, but there's a chance that Patrasche was in fact described as moving at 100 kilometres per hour and the unit system was just messed up in the TL.

There's also the chance that it was indeed 60 kilometres per hour in the JP version and the units used in the TL is just inconsistent, but I kinda wanna make sure...
 
Volume 8 when he was being chased by Geuse in the forest? If so there is a difference between moving on a plain with no obstructions vs in a forest with grass, leaves and trees around, of course the latter would slow you down.
 
Me:
Doing a match that is unrelated with Re:ZERO, and enjoying myself: ☺️☕

The Ram feat (you know the one) is mentioned:🙂🔫

The guy wants to claim that a character is FTL anc can dodge immesurable speed attacks, and bring the Ram feat to prove a slower character dodging a faster character.
 
Fezzih_007 said:
The guy wants to claim that a character is FTL anc can dodge immesurable speed attacks, and bring the Ram feat to prove a slower character dodging a faster character.
Click to expand...

That is literally not what the Ram feat implies lol.

The Ram feat is showing that if you know what someone will do before they act, you can dodge before the faster attack comes out. If it was base Garfiel she couldn't have dodged, Beast Garf is very easy to use analytical prediction against.

If someone is just fully faster in every way then prediction won't work nearly as well, and if someone has immeasurable speed it especially doesn't work because they are unbound by time.
They can release an attack after you dodge and hit you before you even dodge.
 
Finished vol 22, don't think there is much of anything to add, that's new? Besides Shaula's lifting strength.

Have to say Reid picking up a sword, and in 3 months reaching the pinnacle and cutting whatever he wants is crazy.

Also again shows how the stuff Reinhard does with blessings, can be achieved with skill... Sneak attacks, while Reid is asleep won't work, while Reinhard has a blessing for that.
 
Ok since 1 Shackle = 10% of Ram's power is laughably impossible and we have seen that they are exponential, I've got some actually usable statements for her Shackles.

Ram with 1 Shackle released is comparable to but weaker than Rem.
Q: Rem vs Ram, with both of them in peak condition, which one is stronger?

A: Rem. If you meant ‘with intact horns’, then Ram.
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Normally, when working as a servant, she did everything with those shackles on.

At times there were situations of emergency, and she had no choice but to utilize magic and do away with the situation. On those instances she unfastened one shackle and allowed herself a bare minimum utilization of magic. - Arc 6 Chapter 82 "Shackle-Accompanying Battle"
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Ram with 2 Shackles released is more than twice as strong as Beastified Garfiel.
Q: When Ram-chi was beating up on beastform Garf, was her condition then like her power in her prime?

A: About enough that she could take him with half her strength.
Click to expand...
And, in circumstances which could be sorted despite that, she unfastened two shackles, and though only in short decisive battles, Ram demonstrated about twenty-percent of her original strength.

That was around what she had done when she had faced and fought Garfiel in the Sanctuary, approximately a year-and-a-half prior.

Ram had confidence, that that was the maximum strength she could bring out as “hornless”, and her body would not be able to endure any further and become disabled.

Those shackles, a double-edged sword, right now, had already been unfastened that much by Ram. - Arc 6 Chapter 82 "Shackle-Accompanying Battle"
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There is no actual information on how much stronger Ram is with 3 Shackles released, we just know she went from being at a disadvantage against Ley to immediately stomping him and becoming able to one-shot with just a Fula.

The two options for an actual multiplier is either a minimum 1.5x boost, due to the mathematical difference between 20% and 30% being 1.5x,
Or a ~2x boost to keep it in more in line with the difference between 1st Shackle and 2nd Shackle, while still significantly lowballing.

Ram with 5 Shackles released is equal to half of her adult prime. An adult full-power Ram is stronger than Regulus, Sekhmet, and BotE Puck.
Whilst shedding immense blood, Batenkaitos artlessly swooped down upon her.

In greater precision, he was surely making free use of miraculous superhuman techniques. Coalescing the might of multifarious transcendental beings, from the outset, he was certainly formulating techniques impossible of being reconstructed by anyone.

That excelling blitz, specializing in all possible orientations, was shut down by Ram through outstripping violence.

She guillotined those monumental techniques of hundreds, of thousands, using might worth millions. This was what the battle had now come to be.

She sought not to even come in contact with Batenkaitos. Her condition felt well.
She had grown accustomed to it in Subaru’s absence. She had unfastened approximately two more shackles.

Probably, making up for fifty-percent of her prime―― no, since Ram had been very young in those days, aspects of her that had matured were far mightier now compared to Ram back then.

And, to not wallow in that might, was Ram’s forte. - "Conversing of What Yesterday Held"
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Q: If you were to line up the characters which have appeared in the work so far in order of fighting strength, how would it look?

A: Reinhard, Ram with her horn, Regulus, Sekhmet, Serious Puck. Even though these guys are like dangos under Reinhard, each one is capable of dropping the White Whale on their own. (2nd of June 2014, Arc 4)
Click to expand...
 
Still have yet to finish those last few chapters of arc 6, but doesn't she need like Subaru to take the recoil for the Shackles? Are those higher shackles like 5, possible for her normally and if not, why would we index something she can't use on her own?
 
Celestial_Pegasus said:
Still have yet to finish those last few chapters of arc 6, but doesn't she need like Subaru to take the recoil for the Shackles? Are those higher shackles like 5, possible for her normally and if not, why would we index something she can't use on her own?
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I can agree with not indexing the higher shackles. Just one vs two shackles is the distinction that needs to be made here.
 
She cannot normally access her higher Shackles without her body breaking permanently, but situations exist where she can access her 3rd Shackle and above.

Either Subaru's Cor Leonis (which is weaker) or more effectively just abusing a comatose Rem's horn with Synesthesia, which lets her reach 5th Shackle without any Cor Leonis, works.

Ram + comatose Rem gives me a similar feeling to Regulus having his wives who he can't use Little King without, or a Spirit Contractor relying on their Spirits (though really it's closest to Regulus).
 
From my knowledge, it is very much possible for two characters to 'team up together" in a verse match if a. they are known to team up or b. one is required to be around for the other to show off their full power.
  • If a character canonically needs another character to fight at their full potential (i.e. Naofumi Iwatani and Raphtalia)
  • If one character is useless on their own (i.e. Gentle Criminal and La Brava)
  • If two characters are canonically known for fighting alongside one another frequently and supplement each other's skills in combat (i.e. Twinrova, Ice Climbers, and Batman and Robin)
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I would say Ram needing Rem and/or Subaru to fight at her higher level of shackles qualifies for the two bolded, imo... Granted, most team-up matches with Subaru will be either an eventually victory for Ram and him or an incon and a team-up with Rem, considering the state she was in during Arc 6, would either have her in a coma state still and/or have her as her Arc 7-8 Self.
 
Ok so, what do y'all think of 3rd Shackle? Do you think it should be considered as 1.5x or ~2x?
Zabazab said:
The two options for an actual multiplier is either a minimum 1.5x boost, due to the mathematical difference between 20% and 30% being 1.5x,
Or a ~2x boost to keep it in more in line with the difference between 1st Shackle and 2nd Shackle, while still significantly lowballing.
Click to expand...
 
I also just have, literally zero clue what to call this Ram feat.
Declaring with apparent disgust, Ram twisted her frame as her elbow rebuff drilled into the air.
Slashed upon touch, broke bones upon striking, a fearsome technique which pierced even into the insides, this was being performed lacking all frugality, as she fired a chain of strikes utilizing all of her limbs.

These were not moves governed by simply physical ability or technique.

Had it been brought forth by pure finesse, then Batenkaitos, who reconstructed all kinds of techniques of the past and the present, of east and west, relying on the Memories of eaten opponents, could have surely dealt with it.

However, Ram’s battle techniques marked a concise difference from that.

Ram: “――――”

Stepping in, the elbow and knee strikes which Ram fired changed their velocity midway through. That was because Ram clad herself in wind magic which she specialized in, and wove truth and myth together in the midst of the battle.

Accelerating or decelerating speed with wind, she derailed Batenkaitos’s cognizance as he counterattacked. In the end, Ram utilized wind and scattered her presence in all directions, and whilst slipping into the opponent’s blind spot with nimble carriage of her body, struck countless fatal blows. - Arc 6 Chapter 82 "Shackle-Accompanying Battle"
Click to expand...

Ram is a consistently difficult one. Fits her personality tbh.
 
Zabazab said:
I also just have, literally zero clue what to call this Ram feat.


Ram is a consistently difficult one. Fits her personality tbh.
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giphy.gif


Memes aside this doesn't look as difficult, Ram is just really good at wind magic, if it was a martial technique Rai could deal with, and while he does have wind magic himself, it's not as good as Ram, so she can just use her skill with it to basically change up her tempo to throw him off, and scatter her presence all over to sneak up on him.

Still ridiculous, honestly Ram intelligence should be genius at this point.
 
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