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Pokemon Tier 2 Hax Additions
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Hasty12345
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- #163
Which were debunked later. It was an avatar which is even weaker than the regular ones, not the true form lmao.
Hasty12345
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I mean, there's a reason third parties usually judge arguments...
But sure, if you say DT's arguments were debunked.
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- #165
Whole argument was because of PMD Dialga being affected from time being corrupted, which was debunked due of the regular one having different feats of tanking space-time ditortions and even creating a time loop in the Distortion World. And these are just the avatars, not the True Form.
Hasty12345
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Why are we assuming there's an association between the types of "distortions" and "corruptions" here?
It seems to me based on the arguments presented that there's are completely separate phenomena, I haven't played PMD, so could you prove the time corruption due to the tower thing is the same as these other distortions created due to completely different sources? Because they seem unrelated to me, so idk how this debunks anything.
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- #167
When time went out of whack implies distortion not corruption.
Also PMD Dialga is treated as a different version than the og one.
Hasty12345
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so what do you mean here?
are they different avatars or do they also have different true forms? because this could just be considered a contradiction or the time tower could just have higher potency then what Dialga can resist.
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Im not gonna say I agree with this 100% just yet, but I will say it seems viable that the tower's effect on time could also just have better potency over time than Dialga and is just upscaled.
After all, Arceus of all things needed to intervene with Primal Dialga's crap, so its not impossible to argue the tower has potency thats > Dialga's resistance when someone far superior to the latter was needed to stop said events.
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- #170
PMD Dialga =/= Regular Dialga due of it being way weaker, and it showed limits that Regular one hasn't.
Former as even implied from Cyrus profile, latter doesen't make sense once you read the Doc.
It's more likely the latter imho, also after what Kukui said.
Hasty12345
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I didn't think the latter made sense either, but use of "regular Dialga" and "PMD Dialga" is weird since if PMD is just another Avatar of the Dialga who can create avatars who casually neg spacetime manip etc, why not just "boost" the avatars resistance (I know this sentence is a mess, but it's not important anyway)? But thank you for clarifying.
I think it makes the most sense that the time tower is just too potent.
But this interpretation renders the debunk to DT's arguments debunked does it not? Because if Arceus has to interfere, then it's reasonable to assume true form Dialga couldn't stop it either?
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- #172
True Forms never interfere with what happens. That Arceus was an avatar as well since is a physical version of it like in games/anime.
Hasty12345
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wdym? They interfere through their avatars due to being higher dimensional. Or are you implying the avatars act without the knowledge of their true form?
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- #174
Yeah, thought about it lol. It's weird and could be intepreted in more ways, but at very least this confirms that Arceus can fix paradoxes above baseline.
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- #175
Nvm, makes sense. That seems a good addition anyways lol
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- #176
For Arceus a thing like "Time Manipulation, Travel, Spatial Manipulation and Resurrection (Upscales from Dialga and Palkia. Could repair the time distortion caused from the destruction of the Time Tower, which even Dialga itself couldn't repair)" should work, and this counting all the time distortion stuff that Dialga already dealt with as I told before.
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A lot of this is wrong.
"Created the multiverse" doesn't mean Abstract Existence, and "Created the world" doesn't mean "created the multiverse".
I find it funny how you list examples of entries saying the Lake Trio gave their abilities to humans to conclude that they exist as abstract concepts of their abilities.
The Lake Trio doesn't create avatars.
Literally nothing from those inscriptions say the verse is part of Arceus's being, lol. At best it says he predates the universe.
...What from that page says anything about Arceus being the entire verse?? At best it says he needs the Plates to be OP... and we already know he's fodder without them.
Concepts transcend reality, destroying reality doesn't mean you destroyed concepts.
Cyrus wasn't going to destroy Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina, in fact he was going to use the former two to meet his goals and Giratina was in the Reverse World.
A lot of those AP feats are wank and none of those are Multiversal.
Arceus didn't create those Pokémon. They came up on their own.
Very little of this is usable. I agree on only the Creation Trio getting Abstract Existence and everything in Part 4 not from another Pokémon.
"Created the multiverse" doesn't mean Abstract Existence, and "Created the world" doesn't mean "created the multiverse".
I find it funny how you list examples of entries saying the Lake Trio gave their abilities to humans to conclude that they exist as abstract concepts of their abilities.
The Lake Trio doesn't create avatars.
Literally nothing from those inscriptions say the verse is part of Arceus's being, lol. At best it says he predates the universe.
...What from that page says anything about Arceus being the entire verse?? At best it says he needs the Plates to be OP... and we already know he's fodder without them.
Concepts transcend reality, destroying reality doesn't mean you destroyed concepts.
Cyrus wasn't going to destroy Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina, in fact he was going to use the former two to meet his goals and Giratina was in the Reverse World.
A lot of those AP feats are wank and none of those are Multiversal.
Arceus didn't create those Pokémon. They came up on their own.
Very little of this is usable. I agree on only the Creation Trio getting Abstract Existence and everything in Part 4 not from another Pokémon.
Hasty12345
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If you're attempting to debunk multiversal CT, you're gonna have to make a CRT with arguments unique to the already dozens of failed CRT's.
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...What? No, none of the feats he listed are multiversal in scale.
Hasty12345
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Then read all the previous downgrade attempts and create a unique downgrade CRT, this is not the CRT for this topic.
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- #181
Excuse me? It was heavily implied such lmao, as even stated in their current profiles.
They are parts of the Spirit itself, the abilities just link to what they're are in the True Forms.
...I'll just ignore this.
Whole plot of the game says no.
"Distortring all the dimensions" and "causing a space-time distortion which will eventually collapse everything" is Multiversal lol.
Me rn.
Headcanon which even contradicts the current profiles.
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So no debunks, just braggy insults? That's a fast way to get this section fled from by potential accepters.
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If your arguing against 2-B/2-A Pokemon in general, that is a separate topic to this thread, if you want to argue that take it to another CRT otherwise I'm going to have to ask you to not post to prevent further unneeded derailment.
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Did you not read the doc?
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- #185
"Insults"
Bruh, is you who started to derail and saying just no and nuff else.
Most of that are supporting feats which you said just "they're not multiversal" without an explanation.
Hasty12345
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Yes, and if I misinterpreted your intentions I apologize, but when you say stuff like:
It sounds like you disagree with multiversal AP, which is currently accepted, and this is not the thread to downgrade their AP.
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I know; he claims a lot of their feats are Multiversal that aren't just because that's their AP.
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The document talks about Multiversal Pokémon, but with the knowledge that Pokémon has already been accepted by the Wiki. If you were to try to debunk 2-B/2-A Pokémon then please take it to another CRT to prevent derailment.
Now what exactly needs to be done, because at the moment it looks like we are in impasses with no sides seeming to be changing their minds anytime soon, and I'd rather this thread not just die from inactivity.
Now what exactly needs to be done, because at the moment it looks like we are in impasses with no sides seeming to be changing their minds anytime soon, and I'd rather this thread not just die from inactivity.
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- #189
Sean ngl but you were always somehow against any Pokémon Upgrade and it shows.
Lol whut.
^^^
Which was alredy accepted from the majority in its entirety as well.
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This feels off
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You haven't exactly been keen on Pokémon Physiology yourself.
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- #192
Yeah this is def. derailing, please just stop
Anyway, we already have
Agreements: Kirean, Plank, Kukui, Yuri, Everything.
Disagreements: DDM, Elizhaa and DT (But even just on some things and not everything)
It should be added already tbf
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The Pokémon Physiology page is a pretty complex thing that affects the whole verse so you will need to be a little more patient pls, geez, we haven't even been able to add space-time manipulation to all the mons, even though it's been widely accepted.
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It's not that simple, also you forgot me.
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I know, I'm not rushing it on here, the profile for it just got deleted again so I have to get it accepted again.
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Just wait a bit, also I'm sure we can find more abilities eventually....
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By the way, with the exception of type 5 acausality, I generally agree with the proposals.
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- #199
Aka is derailing.
Well, everything is accepted but:
- Type 5 Acausality: rejected from everyone on Earth
- Type 1 AE: currently discussed from DT
- Type 4 Acausality: same from DT
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- #200
BTW, can you call Ant so we can see what to do?
Current chart btw.
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