- 12,456
- 4,479
Huh, i could swear that it had a statement like this somewhere, oh well forget it then
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Pokémon God Tiers: Several revisions
- 15,443
- 7,154
- Thread starter
- #122
...maybe if you paid more attention to the lore instead of just looking to the VBW profiles you'd already got it by now.
"True Forms" is just a fanon name we took to describe their omnipresent self. We should pick a different name though.
- 4,187
- 1,484
Origin Dialga and Palkia are what Origin Giratina is to Giratina.
(It makes sense for them to look like horses, because of the whole thing about being alter egos of Arceus and such.)
(It makes sense for them to look like horses, because of the whole thing about being alter egos of Arceus and such.)
- 15,443
- 7,154
- Thread starter
- #125
So you're telling me that the concept of time isn't omnipresent?
Sniper670
He/Him- 6,409
- 1,365
I'm saying neither Dialga nor Palkia are literally time and space respectively.
They have no omnipresent forms
- 4,187
- 1,484
- 15,443
- 7,154
- Thread starter
- #128
...you know that if they are time and space, they have to be omnipresent, right?
- 3,566
- 879
Them being time and space is simply a cool way of saying that they are space and time manipulators not that they embody the very concept of time and space itself same goes for Giratina it being the distortion world comes from a statement made by a guy who was shown to be unreliable
- 15,443
- 7,154
- Thread starter
- #130
"Saying that Character is X doesn't make you embodiment of X"
Genius interpretation.
- 3,566
- 879
Because you'll need more proof than this, simple as that
- 15,443
- 7,154
- Thread starter
- #133
- 3,566
- 879
- 1,042
- 229
Dragonite007
He/Him- 7,168
- 3,260
Dead link
Sniper670
He/Him- 6,409
- 1,365
That's a very unreliable statement for a guy who went there for the first time and also that doesn't apply to Dialga and Palkia as with those two, we have a different explanation for them. Ie. Their "Origin" Forms are their True Appearances
- 3,566
- 879
Already explained that :
Not only he's unreliable but he had no way of knowing whatever Giratina is the distortion world itself or not it's pretty clear that he's talking out of his ass and that's the problem with Pokemon in general in this wiki since we're using vague and hyperbolic statements to upgrade pokemons, using pokedex statements about Pokemons performing "X" tier feat with no context or time frame given,..... etc
Last edited:
- 3,566
- 879
Was shown to be wrong on multiple occasions and as I said he had no way of knowing whatever Giratina is the distortion world or not
- 1,091
- 287
Such as...?
- 3,566
- 879
Claiming that defeating or capturing Giratina would make the distortion world disappear which was shown to be wrong..... Claimed that Giratina is the distortion world (I wonder how did he know that ) and yet he claims that Giratina made the distortion world (I guess Giratina created itself),......etc
Sniper670
He/Him- 6,409
- 1,365
In addition, his statement has never been supported by any media whatsoever and in fact every threat targeted at his "physical form" has been an actual threat that is detrimental to the existence of the Distortion World. Ie. His Avatar's death is a threat to his True Form?
I think it was meant to say that Giratina is intrinsically tied to the D world rather, not literally the Distortion World in a "True Form" sense
I think it was meant to say that Giratina is intrinsically tied to the D world rather, not literally the Distortion World in a "True Form" sense
- 3,566
- 879
He'd still have no way of knowing that anyway it's pretty clear that he's just talking out of his ass
- 16,963
- 4,864
Yeah no. Dialga and Palkia are absolutely time and space literally respectively.
I completely disagree with taking that away
I completely disagree with taking that away
- 3,566
- 879
You disagree doesn't make it right
- 16,963
- 4,864
When has any of the bolded out happened?
By the way, for the point on Dialga and Palkia not being their literal concepts/realms, the anime also goes against this. Because when Cyrus summoned them to Spear Pillar with the red chain, we literally see them be summoned as non-corporeal figures with parts of their dimension being summoned forth before the red chain made them physical and fully summoned into the regular universe.
- 15,443
- 7,154
- Thread starter
- #149
Also arguing that their physical forms is their true self is completely dumb as every catridge is canonically a different timeline, meaning that there are many Dialga/Palkia there.
You're essentially implying that each universe has its own Creation Trio that has made it.
You're essentially implying that each universe has its own Creation Trio that has made it.
- 3,566
- 879
- 16,963
- 4,864
And that’s wrong.
Dumbing it down to incorporeality (which doesn’t even make sense as that implies the creation trio are originally spiritual entities, which is wrong in every way you can think of) doesn’t disprove the fact they were being summoned as parts of their dimension with the red chain.
Even Jewel of Life also helps to prove this, at least for Dialga. Dialgas physical avatar was knocked out for half the movie after getting drastically beaten down by Arceus, and despite being passed out, Dialga was still able to move Ash & his friends backward and forward through time. He even became immediately aware of the past being changed and brought them back to their original time, all while his Avatar was out of commission
The only way that’s possible is if Dialga isn’t just limited to a physical avatar, as already suggested.
- 15,443
- 7,154
- Thread starter
- #152
Plus nothing says that they are embodiments of time.
The Original Myth describes them are straight up being those things themselves.
The Original Myth describes them are straight up being those things themselves.
Sniper670
He/Him- 6,409
- 1,365
No theyre not.
There's literally a huge blog with all the information that exists for the CT and nowhere was it implied they'd some omnipresent beings. They're just two Pokémon who can control time and space that's it.
Here's the blog. Give one evidence that points to the CT being omnipresent
There's literally a huge blog with all the information that exists for the CT and nowhere was it implied they'd some omnipresent beings. They're just two Pokémon who can control time and space that's it.
Here's the blog. Give one evidence that points to the CT being omnipresent
- 15,443
- 7,154
- Thread starter
- #154
So I guess there are infinite versions of the CT.
- 15,443
- 7,154
- Thread starter
- #156
Yeah no.
Sniper670
He/Him- 6,409
- 1,365
That's fine. It doesn't make sense but it seems you didn't understand me.
1. Every material supports there being infinite CTs. Player can literally have several. In fact Team Rainbow Rocket Cyrus has one(or two of the CT) while there's one in the universe he was pulled into.
2. Nothing supports Omnipresence for Dialga and Palkia.
Even if you think there's one Dialga, that doesn't make him omnipresent.
- 16,963
- 4,864
Literally everything mentioned prior in this thread equates to omnipresence. A lack of a direct omnipresence statement =/= they aren’t such
Being time and space literally is enough for that and the former has evidence for that.
Sniper670
He/Him- 6,409
- 1,365
And yet they're not. You keep saying it as if they're some Abstract Omnipresent beings when that has never been implied within the series
To make matters worse, GF straight up calls their origin forms(Dialga and Palkia) their true Appearances
Where is the Omnipresence. The burden of proof is on you...
- 16,963
- 4,864
Not implied to you maybe. Everyone else, it is.
Which can easily also be interpreted as the true forms of their avatars, as much so as Groudon and Kyogres primal forms are theirs.
Either way, this isn’t a debunk.
Like I said, the above replies have mentioned several points that qualify as omnipresence.
Similar threads
