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Huh, i could swear that it had a statement like this somewhere, oh well forget it then
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Pokémon God Tiers: Several revisions
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- #122
...maybe if you paid more attention to the lore instead of just looking to the VBW profiles you'd already got it by now.
"True Forms" is just a fanon name we took to describe their omnipresent self. We should pick a different name though.
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Origin Dialga and Palkia are what Origin Giratina is to Giratina.
(It makes sense for them to look like horses, because of the whole thing about being alter egos of Arceus and such.)
(It makes sense for them to look like horses, because of the whole thing about being alter egos of Arceus and such.)
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- #125
So you're telling me that the concept of time isn't omnipresent?
Sniper670
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I'm saying neither Dialga nor Palkia are literally time and space respectively.
They have no omnipresent forms
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- #128
...you know that if they are time and space, they have to be omnipresent, right?
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Them being time and space is simply a cool way of saying that they are space and time manipulators not that they embody the very concept of time and space itself same goes for Giratina it being the distortion world comes from a statement made by a guy who was shown to be unreliable
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- #130
"Saying that Character is X doesn't make you embodiment of X"
Genius interpretation.
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Because you'll need more proof than this, simple as that
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Dragonite007
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Dead link
Sniper670
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That's a very unreliable statement for a guy who went there for the first time and also that doesn't apply to Dialga and Palkia as with those two, we have a different explanation for them. Ie. Their "Origin" Forms are their True Appearances
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Already explained that :
Not only he's unreliable but he had no way of knowing whatever Giratina is the distortion world itself or not it's pretty clear that he's talking out of his ass and that's the problem with Pokemon in general in this wiki since we're using vague and hyperbolic statements to upgrade pokemons, using pokedex statements about Pokemons performing "X" tier feat with no context or time frame given,..... etc
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Was shown to be wrong on multiple occasions and as I said he had no way of knowing whatever Giratina is the distortion world or not
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Such as...?
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Claiming that defeating or capturing Giratina would make the distortion world disappear which was shown to be wrong..... Claimed that Giratina is the distortion world (I wonder how did he know that ) and yet he claims that Giratina made the distortion world (I guess Giratina created itself),......etc
Sniper670
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In addition, his statement has never been supported by any media whatsoever and in fact every threat targeted at his "physical form" has been an actual threat that is detrimental to the existence of the Distortion World. Ie. His Avatar's death is a threat to his True Form?
I think it was meant to say that Giratina is intrinsically tied to the D world rather, not literally the Distortion World in a "True Form" sense
I think it was meant to say that Giratina is intrinsically tied to the D world rather, not literally the Distortion World in a "True Form" sense
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He'd still have no way of knowing that anyway it's pretty clear that he's just talking out of his ass
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Yeah no. Dialga and Palkia are absolutely time and space literally respectively.
I completely disagree with taking that away
I completely disagree with taking that away
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You disagree doesn't make it right
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When has any of the bolded out happened?
By the way, for the point on Dialga and Palkia not being their literal concepts/realms, the anime also goes against this. Because when Cyrus summoned them to Spear Pillar with the red chain, we literally see them be summoned as non-corporeal figures with parts of their dimension being summoned forth before the red chain made them physical and fully summoned into the regular universe.
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Also arguing that their physical forms is their true self is completely dumb as every catridge is canonically a different timeline, meaning that there are many Dialga/Palkia there.
You're essentially implying that each universe has its own Creation Trio that has made it.
You're essentially implying that each universe has its own Creation Trio that has made it.
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And that’s wrong.
Dumbing it down to incorporeality (which doesn’t even make sense as that implies the creation trio are originally spiritual entities, which is wrong in every way you can think of) doesn’t disprove the fact they were being summoned as parts of their dimension with the red chain.
Even Jewel of Life also helps to prove this, at least for Dialga. Dialgas physical avatar was knocked out for half the movie after getting drastically beaten down by Arceus, and despite being passed out, Dialga was still able to move Ash & his friends backward and forward through time. He even became immediately aware of the past being changed and brought them back to their original time, all while his Avatar was out of commission
The only way that’s possible is if Dialga isn’t just limited to a physical avatar, as already suggested.
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- #152
Plus nothing says that they are embodiments of time.
The Original Myth describes them are straight up being those things themselves.
The Original Myth describes them are straight up being those things themselves.
Sniper670
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No theyre not.
There's literally a huge blog with all the information that exists for the CT and nowhere was it implied they'd some omnipresent beings. They're just two Pokémon who can control time and space that's it.
Here's the blog. Give one evidence that points to the CT being omnipresent
There's literally a huge blog with all the information that exists for the CT and nowhere was it implied they'd some omnipresent beings. They're just two Pokémon who can control time and space that's it.
Here's the blog. Give one evidence that points to the CT being omnipresent
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- #154
So I guess there are infinite versions of the CT.
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- #156
Yeah no.
Sniper670
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That's fine. It doesn't make sense but it seems you didn't understand me.
1. Every material supports there being infinite CTs. Player can literally have several. In fact Team Rainbow Rocket Cyrus has one(or two of the CT) while there's one in the universe he was pulled into.
2. Nothing supports Omnipresence for Dialga and Palkia.
Even if you think there's one Dialga, that doesn't make him omnipresent.
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Literally everything mentioned prior in this thread equates to omnipresence. A lack of a direct omnipresence statement =/= they aren’t such
Being time and space literally is enough for that and the former has evidence for that.
Sniper670
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And yet they're not. You keep saying it as if they're some Abstract Omnipresent beings when that has never been implied within the series
To make matters worse, GF straight up calls their origin forms(Dialga and Palkia) their true Appearances
Where is the Omnipresence. The burden of proof is on you...
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Not implied to you maybe. Everyone else, it is.
Which can easily also be interpreted as the true forms of their avatars, as much so as Groudon and Kyogres primal forms are theirs.
Either way, this isn’t a debunk.
Like I said, the above replies have mentioned several points that qualify as omnipresence.
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