Pokemon: Final Evolutions Speed CRT

[ElixirBlue]

This ain't MHA, this is Pokémon for one. I'm pretty sure that it has context which doesen't allow it to be SoL there. Signal Beam has not. Also what's the exact problem with these calcs?

It seems the main gripe is about Signal Beam. Solar Beam seems fine.

And MHA being one thing and Pokemon being another doesn't really matter, since they both operate under VSBW's rules, and thus both would need to meets it's criteria to be valid for Speed of Light.

I do indeed still disagree with Signal beam and people yet again pointed out why. Signal beam barely covers two criteria. It has no backup evidence to suggest it is an actual beam traveling at the speed of light.

Aoyama is part of the general rule when it comes to fiction when calling something "Light" and translating it to Speed. Not all "Light" based supernatural powers are portrayed with SoL in mind.

What are Signal Beam's requirements for being treated as SoL, other than being called "A Beam of Light" that Aoyama's Navel Laser also falls under the definition? I tried looking for them in the thread and it seems to be the main point of argument.

 

[Arceus0x]

It seems the main gripe is about Signal Beam. Solar Beam seems fine.

And MHA being one thing and Pokemon being another doesn't really matter, since they both operate under VSBW's rules, and thus both would need to meets it's criteria to be valid for Speed of Light.


Aoyama is part of the general rule when it comes to fiction when calling something "Light" and translating it to Speed. Not all "Light" based supernatural powers are portrayed with SoL in mind.

What are Signal Beam's requirements for being treated as SoL, other than being called "A Beam of Light" that Aoyama's Navel Laser also falls under the definition? I tried looking for them in the thread and it seems to be the main point of argument.

It seems that it is based on the light emitted by the fireflies according to @Rodri_"Dante"

 

[ElixirBlue]

It seems that it is based on the light emitted by the fireflies according to @Rodri_"Dante"

... And Sonic is based on a real world Hedgehog. Not sure I like that argument for Signal beam to be SoL.

 

[StrymULTRA]

What are Signal Beam's requirements for being treated as SoL, other than being called "A Beam of Light" that Aoyama's Navel Laser also falls under the definition? I tried looking for them in the thread and it seems to be the main point of argument.

Basically it moves straight and has no contradiction for it being SoL,. Is Navel Beam stated to be made of light in the verse tho?

 

[ElixirBlue]

Is Navel Beam stated to be made of light in the verse tho?

Yes

Navel Laser

Navel Laser (ネビルレーザー, Nebiru Rēzā?) is the Quirk used by Yuga Aoyama, which was given to him by All For One, who had originally stolen it from someone else. Navel Laser gives the user the ability to fire sparkly twinkling laser beams from their navel. Those beams specifically come from Yuga's...

myheroacademia.fandom.com

has no contradiction for it being SoL

I mean... it does produce multiple musical sounds as its being fired till it hits its target Tho, it not being contradicted (from my limited knowledge of the anime) isn't the same as it being a supporting evidence

 

[StrymULTRA]

Yes

I mean, a scan, not a wiki page.

 

[ElixirBlue]

I mean, a scan, not a wiki page.

Click the Wiki page I just linked above and you'll see a gif of Aoyama fighting a supernatural hero who's main fighting ability is swimming in Shadows

 

[StrymULTRA]

Click the Wiki page I just linked above and you'll see a gif of Aoyama fighting a supernatural hero who's main fighting ability is swimming in Shadows

Whatever laser in fiction emits light from the ray tho.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Anyway I recalculated Golem's feat at 4.67c, waiting evalutation now.

 

[Maskofthedragon]

There are a number of calcs... but for Signal Beam...


On the topic, there is a general speed issue following this.

Navel Laser

Navel Laser (ネビルレーザー, Nebiru Rēzā?) is the Quirk used by Yuga Aoyama, which was given to him by All For One, who had originally stolen it from someone else.[1] Navel Laser gives the user the ability to fire sparkly twinkling laser beams from their navel. Those beams specifically come from Yuga's...

myheroacademia.fandom.com

"A laser is a device that emits light through a process of optical amplification based on the stimulated emission of electromagnetic radiation."

If the criteria was as simple as, it is describe as a "beam of light", instead of "the speed of light", the MHA verse would be SOL right now, simply from Aoyama.

So being called light in many different ways, with no other feats isn't enough?
This will be useful information.

 

[StrymULTRA]

@ElixirBlue also

I got your point, but you misunderstood them. The threads in short are just to make the SoL if they're stated to be made of light without any contradiction.

Citing AKM

"Beam/ray of light is okay. But not "everything" of light. There are several attacks that are just called "flash of light" which doesn't tell us what the attack is made of, it's more so referring to how the attack shines brightly."

Aka thank you for confirming my point.

It should be stated to be such, not just visual effects.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Anyway I recalculated Golem's feat at 4.67c, waiting evalutation now.

I commented.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I commented.

Replied and fixed.

 

[Arceus0x]

I commented.

On a slightly related note, are you good at earthquake calcs?

 

[StrymULTRA]

On a slightly related note, are you good at earthquake calcs?

6-C Fully evolved mons return, I CAN FEEL IT.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Replied and fixed.

Accepted the calc. Looks good and can be used now.

 

[CloverDragon03]

On a slightly related note, are you good at earthquake calcs?

I've done them before, yeah.

 

[Arceus0x]

6-C Fully evolved mons return, I CAN FEEL IT.

Strym the CRT i am planning gets base pokemon to high 7-A and the calc is accepted by Psychomaster. Thing is i made another one which would scale to pseudo legendaries and i need a Pokemon supporter opinion on it

 

[StrymULTRA]

Returning on Topic, we got for Signal Beam:

Agreements: 3 (DragonGamerZ913, Rodri_"Dante", ProfessorKukui4Life)

Against: 2 (ElixirBlue, Elizhaa)

Anyway, I'll go to the verse and re-arrange better the calc section with putting the results rather than just the tier.

 

[theultimate5105]

I agree with Signal Beam being LS

 

[Arceus0x]

I'll stay neutral on signal beam. Also voting is useless at this point, it is who's in the right who's right

 

[Elizhaa]

Returning on Topic, we got for Signal Beam:

Agreements: 3 (DragonGamerZ913, Rodri_"Dante", ProfessorKukui4Life)

Against: 2 (ElixirBlue, Elizhaa)

Anyway, I'll go to the verse and re-arrange better the calc section with putting the results rather than just the tier.

On the concluding evaluation point, it is mostly evaluation staffs inputs like Thread Moderators, Sysops, or Bureaucrats that count:

• Before making sweeping or significant changes to characters or verse pages, please start a thread in the Content Revision forum first, so that the suggestions may be evaluated by the Staff and the community at large, to ensure that they are acceptable. The concluding evaluations must be handled by Thread Moderators, Sysops, or Bureaucrats, who should make an effort to base their evaluations on valid arguments, not personal opinions.

I don't think it would be accepted on the rule. Though, more inputs from those staffs are welcome.

On the new calculation on Solar Beam that got accepted, I am fine with the FTL calc being used.

 

[StrymULTRA]

On the concluding evaluation point, it is mostly evaluation staffs inputs like Thread Moderators, Sysops, or Bureaucrats that count:

• Before making sweeping or significant changes to characters or verse pages, please start a thread in the Content Revision forum first, so that the suggestions may be evaluated by the Staff and the community at large, to ensure that they are acceptable. The concluding evaluations must be handled by Thread Moderators, Sysops, or Bureaucrats, who should make an effort to base their evaluations on valid arguments, not personal opinions.

I don't think it would be accepted on the rule. Though, more inputs from those staffs are welcome.

On the new calculation on Solar Beam that got accepted, I am fine with the FTL calc being used.

Yeah, but Kukui is a pretty important member for Pokémon, so I included him too.

 

[Elizhaa]

Yeah; I am just pointing out the rule.

 

[Arceus0x]

hopefully this will be completed soon cause i just cannot wait. Just got a second calc accepted

 

[StrymULTRA]

Fixed the calculation section of the verse page with all the both currently accepted and applied calcs btw.

 

[ElixirBlue]

So being called light in many different ways, with no other feats isn't enough?

I mean, that is what Navel Laser is, with it being super effective to fight Shadows. But it isn’t SoL

 

[StrymULTRA]

I mean, that is what Navel Laser is, with it being super effective to fight Shadows. But it isn’t SoL

I've pointed out how any laser of fiction regardless of the speed emits light of its own tho.

 

[ElixirBlue]

I've pointed out how any laser of fiction regardless of the speed emits light of its own tho.

Which is true. How does that help Signal Beam be proven to move at SoL?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Which is true. How does that help Signal Beam be proven to move at SoL?

You use Navel to debunk Signal Beam while unlike it it doesn't have any statement of being made of light.

 

[GyroNutz]

I am not really familiar with speed scaling. Though, the proposal seems fine, especially from Ash Greninja's calculation.

More staffs inputs could help; @Starter_Pack @GyroNutz what do you think?

Solar Beam and Signal Beam are legit sources of light imo. Both are stated to be light, both move in straight lines (in the majority of sources at least), Solar Beam is taken directly from the sun and has been shown to activate solar panels in the manga, and Signal Beam has a legit source of light, originally being the signature move of Volbeat/Illumise who are fireflys (who have natural bioluminescence).

As for scaling, I'm uncertain. This at the very least should scale to any low tier legendaries (i.e. those without better speed scaling). Note that both the Dusk form Lycanroc and Ash-Greninja are well trained Pokemon, with Ash-Greninja having feats such as defeating a well trained Mega Sceptile despite the type disadvantage and contending with Champion Diantha's Mega Gardevoir as well as Alain's Mega Charizard. At the very least, we shouldn't be scaling our "wild" final evolution profiles to Ash-Greninja.

 

[Arceus0x]

Solar Beam and Signal Beam are legit sources of light imo. Both are stated to be light, both move in straight lines (in the majority of sources at least), Solar Beam is taken directly from the sun and has been shown to activate solar panels in the manga, and Signal Beam has a legit source of light, originally being the signature move of Volbeat/Illumise who are fireflys (who have natural bioluminescence).

As for scaling, I'm uncertain. This at the very least should scale to any low tier legendaries (i.e. those without better speed scaling). Note that both the Dusk form Lycanroc and Ash-Greninja are well trained Pokemon, with Ash-Greninja having feats such as defeating a well trained Mega Sceptile despite the type disadvantage and contending with Champion Diantha's Mega Gardevoir as well as Alain's Mega Charizard. At the very least, we shouldn't be scaling our "wild" final evolution profiles to Ash-Greninja.

I mean they would downscale but whatever. We still have more feats

 

[GyroNutz]

I mean they would downscale but whatever. We still have more feats

Not to Ash-Greninja, no. Not only is Battle Bond the equivalent of a mega evolution, but Ash-Greninja is also extremely well trained for a mega tier Pokemon.

 

[Arceus0x]

Not to Ash-Greninja, no. Not only is Battle Bond the equivalent of a mega evolution, but Ash-Greninja is also extremely well trained for a mega tier Pokemon.

I mean we can scale trainers.

Champions and other trainers comparable or currently superior to Ash. Pikachu is currently > what AG ever was and he still has trouble with some high level pokemon

 

[GyroNutz]

I mean we can scale trainers.

Champions and other trainers comparable or currently superior to Ash. Pikachu is currently > what AG ever was and he still has trouble with some high level pokemon

Sure, strong enough trainers would scale. I'm more concerned about making regular final evos FTL or not though.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Sure, strong enough trainers would scale. I'm more concerned about making regular final evos FTL or not though.

They’d be FTL anyway because the Golem feat got recalced

 

[GyroNutz]

They’d be FTL anyway because the Golem feat got recalced

Oh that works then. Honestly it's consistent that Ash-Gren is higher into FTL than a regular Golem.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Pikachu is currently > what AG ever was and he still has trouble with some high level pokemon

Also, found a clip on YouTube of Ash’s Pikachu moving faster than Signal Beam (Lifting his head up as the beam is traveling at him)

 

[CloverDragon03]

Oh that works then. Honestly it's consistent that Ash-Gren is higher into FTL than a regular Golem.

Atm we have 3 FTL calcs:

Golem’s feat - 1.17c
Lycanroc’s feat - 2.08c
Ash-Greninja’s feat - 6.78c

 

[Lou_change]

Sure, strong enough trainers would scale. I'm more concerned about making regular final evos FTL or not though.

Are you telling me pokemon that are like less than level one hundred are faster than level 100s because the weird power of friendship that might exist.