-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Gotta Revise 'Em All, Part 2 (Clover Edition): Mainline Game Scaling
- Thread starter CloverDragon03
- Start date
-
- Tags
- pokedex pokémon pokémon tcg
- 3,312
- 661
Have you seen the Ralts page? Thats literally bloated BECAUSE its trying to combine split evolutions into one profile, let alone the pre-evos
A verse can have as many viable profiles as it wants tbh, Individual pokemon are fun, but if we acting like the way 'Ralts' is currently formatted, then this is probs part of why the verse seems so bloated. Let alone how outdated it is
You literally have to read through three different text blocks to see what the final-evo of a Pokemon can do in this way of formatting, and then people will deadass think its more user friendly than just separating separate pokemon into their own profiles
Last edited:
koopa3144
He/Him- 7,258
- 4,086
As the person who revised Ralts profile to be what it is now, I have of course seen it's profile. I'm not sure why you consider it "bloated", it's no diffrent then a 3 stage mon profile just with an added tabber on things like P&A and Notable Attacks/Techniques to cover the split evo.
I wasnt refering to the contents of a individual profile when I was talking about bloat. We current have 582 pages under the Pokemon Category, spliting Mons by evo's would balloon that number to an unneeded degree.
- 3,312
- 661
an added tabber thats like, a dozen more powers and abilities, thats completely separate from the previous, AND you have to read the previous two.
Like at most fine, for the Pre-Evos since theres 0 good reason they should get a page, but Gallade and Gardevoir in themself just do not deserve getting crammed into one, having to share a key
???
wdym unneeded?
This is Pokemon, the verse is huge, and theres tons more Pokemon, and Trainer profiles that can be made. Why does the pagecount matter? Heck, this Wiki needs to start making more profiles on the actual new legendaries, trainers and Paradox mons from Paldea and PLA
Maybe the Verse page just needs to be cleaned up and sorted out properly? Cause otherwise I dont see the issue with Pokemon having as many profiles as it can.
Giving Split evos profiles of their own on this wiki too, excluding Eeveelutions, would literally amount to nothing lol. Why are we pretending size is the issue?
Politoed doesnt even have his own profile when Poliwrath does.
Heck, why doesnt Shedinja have his own profile from Ninjask? Those mons couldnt be MORE than different
Last edited:
- 10,174
- 3,856
They're stll part of this hobby that we, many other users do. & you ain't exactly being a bastion of seriousness yourself going "fr".
I beg your pardon?
Just because they have less skill doesn't mean we don't document them.
Heck, Samurott literally gets part of its justification from Dewott!
Until it evolves! AKA a natural thing that most Pokemon do!
But under your page splitting, if they did want to check both, they would have to go to a different page for each of them.
& each page would require newly printed justifications for the AP, the Striking Strength, the Lifting Strength, a Notable Attacks/Techniques Section, etc.
That's a ton of info they'd have to read that's very similar to what they'd read the first time!
Again, I've participated in plenty of Versus Threads & what not featuring not fully evolved Pokemon, & between the differences in capabilities, tiers, they make up notably more interest than your dismissive self gives them credit for.
From the same evolutionary line!
I do not think it is the most important thing, but you can't just ignore half the evolutionary family in favor of the final forms, when a number of the Pokedex entries & moves & feats they get come from or are shared with that half.
I never advocated for them to share a key! I have been advocating for them to have their own keys/tabbers this whole debate!
You have been arguing to make them separate pages & saying nobody cares about the rest of the evolutionary line -& to my recollection, at least 2 other users have disagreed with you on making them split pages-, basically saying "We should delete the whole evolutionary line & give Gardevoir & Gallade their own pages".
That is not the position I am of. My position is that they don't have enough DIFFERENCES from the rest of their evolutionary line to warrant making them their own profiles, which, to meet standards, would require reprinting a ton of justifications & potentially make them more difficult to navigate.
With them on the same page, you just click a tabber to compare.
With them on different pages, you have to find the other page & reread info.
Yes, & those individuals show it's possible for those moves to be found naturally among wild Pokemon of the species.
Not to mention we don't know always know from how many generations an Egg Move was passed down, as knowing the parentage of wild mons is nigh-impossible.
Also, Hidden Pokemon (OR/AS) are just those found in rustling spots.
Island Scan is just a way to find Pokemon that are otherwise difficult to find, using a Pokedex feature.
Brilliant Pokemon just have an aura indicating where they are on the overworld until encountered.
& Pokemon Hideaways are just locations in the underground.
Other than differing in how or where you find them, these special factors are not very "special" in terms of indicating there's something unusual about this Pokemon that'd indicate having an Egg Move is unusual.
& also nothing stops those Pokemon passing on their Egg Moves as far as we know, which could be considered for profile purposes.
If we stuck to the average for a superhero, they'd be rated far lower with tons of antifeats or be missing a bunch of P&A.
Similar goes for mons. & as said, it's quite plausible the moves could be passed on, & little says the Pokemon that have them are unusual other than their location, how noticeable they are, or them being temporarily Terastallized.
Yeah, & the pre-evolutions learn them first, & we already have them documented.
& the Egg Moves are features that can provably occur in the wild!
Just because a P&A comes up rarely doesn't mean we don't document it.
I'd agree, mid-battle evolution would not come up in the majority of Versus Threads.
But does your not responding to these mean you don't disagree?:
"Other characters & monsters can have huge gaps in statistics & differences in P&A. We separate them with keys & tabbers."
"Separating evolutionary lines just complicates the reading & documentation."
I would say clicking a button for a tabber is easier.
& also, me & by my count, 2 other users have already disagreed with the notion of splitting Gardevoir & Gallade into their own pages.
Gardevoir only "gained" a new type when the rest of its evolutionary line minus Gallade & several other Pokemon got type changes with the introduction of Fairy-type.
But yes, it is technically a different type combo than Gallade as of Gen 6 on, even if they share the same primary type.
& their P&A are not entirely unique because they share a ton of stuff.
They are different species, yes, technically, but they have numerous similarities through an evolutionary family.
Are you speaking from experience?
Also, maybe there might be interest in Nuzleaf matchups if it had a profile.
I've seen plenty of matches with NFE Pokemon.
You say that & yet pretty much every Pokemon gets matches, & I've seen CRTs that bother to specify the NFE they're including.
Also, have you ever heard of "Weakest character that can defeat X" format?
How callous can you be?!
1. Azurill has a page!
Azumarill
Tier: 8-C, higher with Huge Power | At most Low 7-B, higher with Huge Power | At least High 7-A, 6-C with Huge Power Key: Azurill | Marill | Azumarill Name: Azurill, The Polka Dot Pokémon | Marill, The Aqua Mouse Pokémon | Azumarill, The Aqua Rabbit Pokémon Origin: Pokémon Gender: 75% of the...
vsbattles.fandom.com
2. It has 3 notable matchups listed on that page!
3. ALL 3 OF THOSE MATCHUPS USED AZURILL SPECIFICALLY.
You really think people don't care about the pre-evolutions?!
You didn't even check if the one you mentioned had a page!
You're arguing that people don't care about things, when it's clear that you're arguing from the position of not caring about those things yourself!
And I would dare say, it has caused you to show bias!
Mathematically, not entirely.
As of the most recent generation (S/V), Gallade has 14 moves exclusive to it.
If your human-intervention clause is to be considered, 4 of those (Night Slash, Aqua Cutter, Sacred Sword, & Leaf Blade) aren't accessible to it in most circumstances because they're move relearner only.
Heal Pulse, Growl, Disarming Voice, Double Team, Confusion, Hypnosis, Draining Kiss, Teleport, Psybeam, Charm, Calm Mind, Psychic, Dream Eater, & Future Sight.
That's 14 moves that the other members of the line other start with or can learn prior to evolving into Gallade.
Meaning it shares just as many moves with its line as it has exclusive to it, if not more if we consider Move Relearning hurdles.
It shares even more moves with them via Egg Moves.
Gallade's movepool is 50% or more similar to the rest of its line.
Sawk & Throh only share 5 out of 13 Level-Up moves. (Less than 40%.)
If your human-intervention clause is to be considered, 4 of those (Night Slash, Aqua Cutter, Sacred Sword, & Leaf Blade) aren't accessible to it in most circumstances because they're move relearner only.
Heal Pulse, Growl, Disarming Voice, Double Team, Confusion, Hypnosis, Draining Kiss, Teleport, Psybeam, Charm, Calm Mind, Psychic, Dream Eater, & Future Sight.
That's 14 moves that the other members of the line other start with or can learn prior to evolving into Gallade.
Meaning it shares just as many moves with its line as it has exclusive to it, if not more if we consider Move Relearning hurdles.
It shares even more moves with them via Egg Moves.
Gallade's movepool is 50% or more similar to the rest of its line.
Sawk & Throh only share 5 out of 13 Level-Up moves. (Less than 40%.)
It does differ thanks to the Mega & different Abilities, & a few different Pokedex entries, but the fact that it inherits much means its more efficient to keep the stuff it inherits on the same page, I'd say.
Even if they are very different Pokemon, I think it'd be neater.
Bandwith & disapproval of having too many pages is still a thing.
& there's the matter of making them have tabbers/keys being a better organizational system in the case of Split Evos rather than counterparts, I'd say.
I'm not saying the tabbers/keys on it are currently ideal; Prior to your pointing it out, I didn't know they didn't separate the AP Key for the two, for example.
You don't need to be facetious, you know I mean because they share a lot of movepool, feats, Pokedex entries, etc.
FWIW, for when they aren't connected by an evolutionary family, it'd seem reasonable to give them separate profiles, IMHO.
I said what I did in the context you're replying to because you said:
"Like a Gallade and Gardevoir are very different, and branched evolutions are symbolistic of actual evolution into different species entirely from one common ancestor."
But on that, I question how evolutionarily different they are.
We don't know why the line has a split evolution, nor when it acquired it (In a Doylist way, we do, in Gen 4, but I'm talking Watsonianly.), only when Pokemon humanity discovered it.
Contrary to your claim, we don't know the evolutionary biology circumstances of Gardevoir or Gallade, other than that it involves Male Kirlia & Dawn Stones.
We don't know the cause or the nature of their long-term evolution.
In theory, in the distant future, they could end up diverging more, but the known circumstances for Gallade involve literal magic rocks.
I'd say it's a bit shakey to say they're going to diverge.
Eevee is probably better to have 1 profile with multiple tabbers/keys, since again, a lot of shared traits, but if enough people think it's too much on one profile, I can understand.
Not to mention, Eevee has no types in common with its evolutions.
"maybe half their movepool" as in, "the quantity of moves they have in common is half their movepool", not "maybe half their movepool being different/the same", matters, too.
Both are humanoids with white pelvises, white legs, red eyes of very similar if not identical styles, green head parts that curve over their face, green limbs, & red crests in their torso.
Most of these visual similarites are maintained when they Mega Evolve & in Mega form, both have a wide, flowing, extended back part. (Back of "dress", & cape.)
I'd say it's clear by visuals they're from the same evolutionary line.
Yes, you did say that!
You did in fact say:
"Honestly though, who exactly wants to use the base/2nd stage forms though? In exception to mons like Pikachu, Eevee and Jigglypuff i guess, but I feel the power levels of lesser Pokemon are just kinda irrelevant compared to using the Pokemon at its strongest.
I know theres a lot of spam matchups like 'Caterpie vs w/e' but lowkey dk if we need to mandatory give a tiering to random Pre-evos anymore"
There's a quote, with a link to the post where you said it, & here's a screenshot, with it circled in red, too:
You really gonna tell me "no i didn't say that" once again?
The profile they share should be improved, but we don't need to give them separate profiles that'll amount to repeating the same list of sourcings.
Says the user too dismissive of NFE matches to actually check if 1 had a profile or even look to see that said NFE was all 3 notable matches on said profile.
Even when there's Weedle or Magikarp or Youngster Joey, they're still taken seriously. I'd say such keys are still valued.
Objectively untrue, they have been used. I've seen matches with Ralts, Rhyhorn, Murkrow, Riolu, Meltan, Cleffa, & others.
To say they never get used is false.
Also, in many of those cases, the fully evoled forms don't see much use.
Meanwhile, Pokemon like Rhydon & Azumarill, I literally couldn't find any matches for.
& it wouldn't invalidate indexing them regardless, given they differ from their higher forms, even if that just means a different key.
Different behaviour, abilities, etc.
How does "half or more the same moves, half the same typing, many of the same feats" equal completely different?
Strictly speaking, they aren't completely different.
They are separate species, by Pokedex number, & while they do cease to be able to be the same species after evolving, they still both have several commonalities as well as differences.
Roughly half or more of the moves are the same, excluding TMs/TRs & Tutors. (Manmade stuff.)
Half the same typing.
A bunch of shared feats via pre-evolutions.
Similar scaling due to both being Mega Evolution capable Pokemon.
Very similar visuals.
Different Abilities.
Some different Pokedex entries.
Different behaviour.
Personally, I don't think it's worth the amount of work & rearranging, & I doubt the end product would be more efficient than just using tabbers/keys.
Also, there's already an unresolved CRT for them anyway, so you should probably do it as a Sandbox if you're serious about advocating for this.
And a large portion of their moves.
Plus, it being intuitive to group Pokemon by evolutionary trees.
- 3,312
- 661
My God are you actually writing about how they look similar being a legitimate point lmfao
The efforts people would go to avoid basic cleanup work while writing all that
(And I was asking why you were talking about this being a hobby, so idk what that screenshot is meant to prove)
The efforts people would go to avoid basic cleanup work while writing all that
(And I was asking why you were talking about this being a hobby, so idk what that screenshot is meant to prove)
koopa3144
He/Him- 7,258
- 4,086
I don't see why this matters. You have to read the previous tabbers to understand later ones on basically every profile using them.
They scale to the exact same things only their ability are different, why would there need to be separate keys nonetheless entirely different profiles?
The number of potential profiles for Pokemon is why the pagecount matters. We already have 100s of profiles in Pokemon and potentially 100's more, why split Mons to make even more profiles when we can and have been condensing all evo's into one profile without issue since the wiki began?
As I said in my previous post, it's better to take this to the general discussion thread or just make a separate crt to not clog this 5-page crt even more.
- 10,174
- 3,856
I will say this, @Jinx666 .
I don't like to make enemies.
Although I do this recreationally, I take Vs Debating seriously.
Even if we're at a debating impasse of sorts here, & I'd like to hope we can still be amicable to one another in the future.
I do apologize for any bother.
I spent like an hour typing this up, you can stand to read it, I'm sure.
Sorry, sorry.
I'm just exhausted, I haven't slept since I woke up over 24 hours ago.
Maybe do so later when you have more time & energy for this, I know I want to go to bed soon.
Plus, this might be kind of off-topic for this thread, & as said, we have another revision that applies to all of them waiting on Staff Approval.
I'll summarize this part from it, though: You dismissed Azurill, but all of the notable matches on Azumarill's profile are from Azurill matches, while Azumarill has had none, & I searched the forums
Also, several NFE have had matches.
I screenshotted the post of you saying what you told me you didn't say & posted it as proof, with a link to the post.
All that said, you've had multiple people here disagreeing about making them into separate pages, why not accept the compromise of giving them separate keys & tabbers with redirects on cleanup?
People would still be able to find them when they searched, & they'd see the image of the stage they searched.
Like, I'm sorry, it isn't that important in the grand scheme of things, yes, but you really didn't see the similarities?! Do you think people wouldn't likely guess they're somehow connected from the similarities?
I don't like to make enemies.
Although I do this recreationally, I take Vs Debating seriously.
Even if we're at a debating impasse of sorts here, & I'd like to hope we can still be amicable to one another in the future.
I do apologize for any bother.
Dude, just skim it or whatever.
I spent like an hour typing this up, you can stand to read it, I'm sure.
Sorry, sorry.
I'm just exhausted, I haven't slept since I woke up over 24 hours ago.
Maybe do so later when you have more time & energy for this, I know I want to go to bed soon.
Plus, this might be kind of off-topic for this thread, & as said, we have another revision that applies to all of them waiting on Staff Approval.
I'll summarize this part from it, though: You dismissed Azurill, but all of the notable matches on Azumarill's profile are from Azurill matches, while Azumarill has had none, & I searched the forums
Also, several NFE have had matches.
I screenshotted the post of you saying what you told me you didn't say & posted it as proof, with a link to the post.
All that said, you've had multiple people here disagreeing about making them into separate pages, why not accept the compromise of giving them separate keys & tabbers with redirects on cleanup?
People would still be able to find them when they searched, & they'd see the image of the stage they searched.
Because you questioned when I said they looked similar!
Like, I'm sorry, it isn't that important in the grand scheme of things, yes, but you really didn't see the similarities?! Do you think people wouldn't likely guess they're somehow connected from the similarities?
- 12,121
- 4,362
Looking at the peofiles.....they are actually goodly organized and clean, don't see the problem
- 3,312
- 661
It would be immensely more user-friendly to not have to cram 4 different species into one page. No one wants to read everything abt Ralts to get to Gardevoir
Cause
A) We need better reaosning regardless than scaling to other third-stage evolution. This is the lazy way of the old
B) Theres many things different about Gallade and Gardevoir. They're a split evolution for the sheer sake of being different to eachother
C) Respect for the separate Pokemon, with different themes and the ones people would actually like to look at? You're literally cramming two fan-favourites into one page
And you reckon the format Pokemon is currently in is correct right now? Theres literally NO consistency between these pages.
Things need to change and it starts by establishing an actual basis for formatting. Theres loads of issues and Pokemon on this site is messy with its cross-scaling and inconsistent writings. We cant even decide if theyre High 7-A or 6-C lmaooooo
Any modern Pokemon pages would be forced to actually be formatted well, otherwise they're easily allowed to be deleted, so its actually beneficial
- 3,312
- 661
God you cant even make a TLDR without a whole ass long post
- You can choose to waste your time wriitng this, I'm not being stuck here with you debating this and creating the biggest non-issues ever.
- Azurill matchups are a joke. Its literally a meme, and this was like, 6 years ago now from looking at it. They're all memes. I dont know how you don't realise thaty
- You were yapping about this being a hobby and going off topic, i asked why you were since you implying im tryna put you to work or something.
- Any amount of you guys can disagree with me all you want, but the state of Pokemon on this wiki is a mess so dont expect me to exactly treat that as anything concrete. I havent put forward a thread or anything, and there is genuinely no issue with separating profiles so i dont know why you making hour long posts wasting everyones time about it (Yall just dont like work). Ask literally any other Pokemon fan if Gardevoir and Gallade are the same, and they'll tell you otherwise.
- Looking similar has literally NOTHING to do with whether or not they should get a separate page. Its a pedantic fact you're zooming in and dragging this out on, making this as tiresome as possible.
Lou_change
He/Him- 10,152
- 5,393
- 3,312
- 661
These Pokemon Evolution forms arent transformations people. Each Pokemon is their separate species. It doesnt correlate to age whatsoever.
While i frankly dont care if you DO want to include pre-evo forms (when they'll only ever be used for memes), I just feel its disingenuous to extend this to split evos that are literally split off from eachother and count as their separate species
You guys have Shedinja and Ninjask having the same profile like?
While i frankly dont care if you DO want to include pre-evo forms (when they'll only ever be used for memes), I just feel its disingenuous to extend this to split evos that are literally split off from eachother and count as their separate species
You guys have Shedinja and Ninjask having the same profile like?
- 12,121
- 4,362
In the case of Ralts, Gardevoir and Gallade are nothing more than different forms of the same base character, creating different pages senseless since they are the same character at their base, simple difference is only "Ralts choose this form over the other"
- 3,312
- 661
Yeah, cause its better to stop wasting time and stick to 1 example. And ive spoke about Eevee and Nincada
Eevee is the only one here that i can give leeway to since their versatility is based off of TMs. Applin is outdated af, and Urshifu is at least still aptly named Urshifu, they just know different forms of martial arts
- 3,312
- 661
Genuinely dont know why we prioritise the weak baby first-stage pokemon over the actual fan-favourite, widely looked at forms that people would want to use in debates that arent just for memes
Literally just split it into two pages, Gardevoir and Gallade, and mention in each of them the things Ralts and Kirlia can do. E a s y. No one will be looking at Gallade's page and wondering 'okay but wheres Gardevoir?' since its not her page.
Like i can literally do this stuff for you lol, this is a complete none issue. Gardevoir and Gallade arent 'forms', they're entire evolutions and count as separate species. It's not a transformation form
- 12,121
- 4,362
Eeehh, they are still the same character, memories and all, they don't become a complete different individual
I mean, we index characters, as far as multiple final evos go, they are still the same as the base char(this case Ralts) so that alone makes a single profile accounting both forms correct
Nincada
Nincada is a Bug/Ground-type Pokémon that resembles an insectoid. It uses its antennae to sense its surroundings, and uses its claws to carve the roots of tree and absorb moisture and nutrients. Ninjask is a Bug/Flying-type Pokémon and the true evolution of Nincada. Renowned for its tremendous...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Yes
Lou_change
He/Him- 10,152
- 5,393
We don't feel like copy pasting abilities since most moves are from previous forms it's more practical just go to the relevant tabbers it's like a second's worth of effort.
- 3,312
- 661
They are not 'characters'. Pokemon profiles are accounting for the species, they literally are not Individual and just a generalisation of the Pokemon. If anything, I dont know why we DONT have more profiles of individuals
Yeah, and maybe the focus on that is why this verse is so burnt out...
Idc if its on regular pokemon, but its just a lame decision for split evolutions
You dont see a problem with this? Shedinja and Ninjask are like, extremely separate, even more so than Gardevoir and GalladeNincada
Nincada is a Bug/Ground-type Pokémon that resembles an insectoid. It uses its antennae to sense its surroundings, and uses its claws to carve the roots of tree and absorb moisture and nutrients. Ninjask is a Bug/Flying-type Pokémon and the true evolution of Nincada. Renowned for its tremendous...
Yes
- 3,312
- 661
Copy and Pasting is the easiest stuff you can do what???? Cramming a page with tons of tabbers, trying to combine two separate characters is even worse and not user-friendly in the slightest.
If it was me, I wouldnt even include Ralts or Kirlia on 2 separate pages, and instead just upscale them from any known abilities they have.
- 12,121
- 4,362
We are a INDEXING site first and foremost, people seeing them as "weak" or whatever is not, and never was or will be, a factor in making a profile
The page is.....for the Ralts species, which can take the form of Gallade or Gardevoir.....they are nothing more than different forms of the exact same char
.........you described a different form in this very phrase
Tell me, if a Ralts evolves into Kirlia and then Gallade, are they a different character from wheb they were a Ralts? If no then
.....yes, they ARE forms for all intents and purposes
- 3,312
- 661
We're a bad indexing site for Pokemon lol. Its not about being weak, it's just irrelevant to include them when talking about the ACTUAL Pokemon people are here for.
Continue to index all you want, its just disrespectful af to have two separate pokemon squashed into one profile.
Dk how many time si gotta repeat they're all separate species. Idk why you're intent on focusing on Ralts when Gardevoir and Gallade are literally the prime versions
They aren't different forms. They're split EVOLUTIONS. They are separate Pokemon????
An example of a form is Palafin Zero and Hero Mode, or Mega Evolution. Gallade and Gardevoir are active changes into another species
This isnt about individual character. This is a Species Profile omfg. You are documenting the average of the Species!
- 12,121
- 4,362
Yeah, which are characters, species where individuals are characters, a Ralts is a character, all individuals of the species are characters, the profile is thus covering characters, in which the later forms are the same characters as when they were not evolved
Literally every verse here does that, don't be dramatic
Heck you just linked a person revising profiles for the chars
They are nothing more than different forms that the base state
(Nincada) can take.......they aren't separate at all
- 10,174
- 3,856
That's still a reason for use. Even if they didn't use it seriously, they still valued having it to make those matches.
& matches against Dead Space & Throne of Glass & Steam Powered Giraffe characters?
Maybe there's comedy in pitting a Baby Pokemon like Azurill against the monstrous things from those 'verses, but those threads & others have still been concluded.
Not sure I grasp what you mean with the 3rd point, but whatever. (Also I hate how the forum numbers & reorders bullet points.)
Well, sorry for tiring you out with such things.
Also, in my defense, in some previous revisions, I was the one fact-checking the Sandboxes, listing moves, fact-checking descriptions for P&A, to make sure they're accurate.
IIRC, things got done in those. The real delays are waiting for Staff Approval, I'd say.
& I was "yapping" at you because I was hoping we could reach some kind of agreement on this matter of organizational stuff. Heat of the debate.
As for prioritize base form first:
1. That's what's done for other verses. You show the base form first.
2. If we defer to strongest form, how do we decide which is strongest? Do we defer to seniority or recency? How do we decide which is more notable?
Going base form first removes those complications up.
If you ask me, Kirlia & Gardevoir are different species in a way similar to how a caterpillar & a moth could be called different same species. One turns into the other, a notably different organism....
Atlas Moth
The Atlas Moth is a moth from the genus Attacus, it is one of the largest moths in the world with a wingspan measuring 24cm Tier: 10-C | 10-C Key: Caterpillar | Moth Name: Atlas moth, Attacus atlas (scientific name), Snake's head moth Origin: The Real World Gender: Varies Age: Live only for a...
vsbattles.fandom.com
But they still share a profile because 1 turning into the other is a likely, expected part of the existence, & likely to affect things in some way.
- 3,312
- 661
Okay idk how ignorant you gotta be, or how much i gotta repeat this
The Profiles for Pokemon on this wiki, unless theyre named or belonging to a trainer like Ash, ARE SPECIES
They are the generalised page of that Species. Gallade and Gardevoir arent just forms Ralts can temporarily transform into like Mega Evolution. There is a Difference
No it doesnt
Absolutely crazy
- 3,312
- 661
P l e a s e Stop spamming walls of text
- 10,174
- 3,856
Sorry. I do try to be concise, but brevity is not my strong suit.
- 3,312
- 661
You guys are confusing Species profiles (Where all pokemon are separate forms) and having temporary Transformations you can just control when you go into
Gallade isnt a Transformation. Its an Evolution into another Species. Its Irreversible. Its insanely different towards Gardevoir which is a similar Evolution, but a different pokemon entirely
MEGA Gallade IS a Transformation
Gallade isnt a Transformation. Its an Evolution into another Species. Its Irreversible. Its insanely different towards Gardevoir which is a similar Evolution, but a different pokemon entirely
MEGA Gallade IS a Transformation
- 12,121
- 4,362
Again, we INDEX a character, Ralts is the samr character as Gardevoir, so we MUST index it for the profile to be accurate
Plus.......it is quite arrogant of your part to take for yourself to decide what people want or don't to see/be here for, for my experience, i want all pre evos as much as the final ones
Being "separate" species in this case, where one is just the char choosing another form to become, is quite irrelevant being very honest
Tell me the meaningful different between those 2 terms in the context of an Indexing wiki......cuz i don't see any
Is ralts the same char when it becomes kirlia and then gardevoir? If answer i "yes" then there is no such meaningful difference
read above, Ralts is the same char when it evolves, so semantics aside, they are functionally forms
Which is consisted of individual characters.....making this quite irrelevant
- 3,312
- 661
Please stop repeating the same wrong info. You can 'Index' all the weaker stages all you want, but Its the wronggg choice to cram two fully evolved pokemon into 1 page and treat them like different transformation forms
Its not characters. Its a Species. Stop making me repeat this, we are going in circles.
You are not documenting a single individual of Ralts species. If it was smthn like an anime mon, then yeah, its fair game (They can only turn into Gallade or Gardevoir)
But limiting two fully-evolved mons with actual differences into 1 page is just the bad choice, and creating non-issue excuses to try and defend it just aint it
Lou_change
He/Him- 10,152
- 5,393
- 12,121
- 4,362
Temporary or not, for all intends and purposes, they are forms which Ralts is the base
Repeating "species" ad nauseam will not chsnge that or convince anyone of otherwise
Specially when you ignore the reasoning given to you
yes.....it REALLY does
Change the standards if you think it as such
Tranaformation? Yeah, ralts TRANSFORMS into them
Again, you didn't showed anything that wouldn't make them just forms for all intends and purposes....no, semantics of name for it in verse do not count
individual or not, argument is the same
They are separated where it matters in said page, so no limitation occurs
- 12,121
- 4,362
No they don't, they are not "separated" species, they are INTRINSICALLY CONECTED, all Ninjask, by nature, were Nincadas, same for Shedinja, they are all THE EXACT SAME, at one point, saying they COMPLETE SEPARATE is just intrinsically wrong in all senses of the word
- 3,312
- 661
Nothing like that, and this profile is not the precedent at all
No, they're evolutions. These arent forms they can change into on command
It wont go in your head no, you just refuse to be wrong.
Wasnt a reasoning. My debunk just fell on deaf ears. You genuinely think Gallade and Gardevoir are just Super Saiyan transformations or smthn
There is no standard in this verse. Its a mess.
No, it evolves into them
Learn the difference between Evolution and Form changes (Pokemon literally has form changes)
No, you're just refusing evidence
Then its wrong? Idk,
No they arent. They're literally mashed together lmfao, you've opted for a million tabs thinking it looks clean instead of understanding how much easier it'd be for two separate pokemon to go in two separate pages
- 3,312
- 661
X
Bro tryna argue without even knowing the lore behind that species, or understanding how DIFFERENT Shedinja and Ninjask are lol
They arent 'Intrinsically connected', Shedinja is literally the hallowed husk of Ninjask upon evolution that lives on independently and splits off from Ninjask.
Gardevor and Gallade are 'too similar' somehow to get their own profiles, but Shedinja and Ninjask arent, yet we need to accomodate for NINCADA???? Instead of giving two completely unique pokemon pages? Cause you think theres 'too much'??
Last edited:
- 12,121
- 4,362
Yes, it IS like that
Being permanent or not, forms are forms
Answer the question: Is a Ralts when it evolves a different character from when it wasn't evolved? If "no" is the answer....then my point is proven
i can say the same to you, let's not waste time on accusations, shall we?
.....no, i think they are exactly what they, a different stage in the life of the same character, a Ralts is the same char even when evolved, you cannot refute that fact
.......can you stop with the excuses? We do have standards, if the it is the same char, then same profile, unless there is something that makes them different chars
Again, semantics, call what they want inverse
It is still functionally a transformation. Acts like one, appears as one
a different name is worthless here
no, you are
Nope
"Where it matters" learn the read the full sentence, the ONLY notable difference is the powers.....which are separated
Also please, there is only 5, it isn't much at all and it is extremely easy to read
......aka they are intrinsically linked to one another in the process of Nincada transforming into either......thank you for proving my point
SHedinja and ninjask are equally forms Nincada takes for its evolution, yes........there is no complication here
Stop putting words in my mouth
Different wikis, different purposes, this is absolutely worthless as an example, i really don't care how Bulbapedia does things
Lou_change
He/Him- 10,152
- 5,393
