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One Piece Post-Timeskip Scaling and Calcs #9

Stamina/Endurance is another matter from Durability entirely.

The fact of the matter is that Doflamingo, while he was being overpowered by Gear 4th, was still taking very little damage from the hits.

Example of Stamina/Endurance feats: A character is capable of performing incredible acts of agility and mobility without losing consciousness or breath despite having just been pierced straight through the torso by an attack.

Example of Durability: A character gets hit by canon-fire at point blank, but comes out of it with no more than scratches and light bleeding. Whether he is stunned or winded by the experience is another matter entirely, as he was physically unharmed beyond superficial.

Doflamingo's case vs Bound Man is very clearly the latter. How is it a "stamina" case when he's suffering low damage? That's very clearly durability related. Again, Luffy acknowledges this and uses something stronger.
 
Except Duff took massive damage from Luffy, beyond the point that his stamina could take. How can he have great durability when he goes down from 4 hits. You're really underselling his stamina just to high-ball his stats that just don't add up.
 
@Xulrev The lightning was visible from far away. They could totally see how big it was, and assuming that Big Mom can't create storms that big is ignoring the previous day in the arc where she raised a storm so big that it covered the whole island. Even Nami said that she can't create storms that large.

And assuming her children don't know how powerful Big Mom is is a terrible reason to dismiss the feat. Even Perospero, her first born, wasn't surprised by the amount of power used in that attack.

So no, Big Mom and therefore the rest of the Yonko, should scale to 49 Gigatons. BTW, the halfway in 6-C comes from 47.85 Gigatons, so yes, it has a +.
 
@Calaca; are you sure? I thought the midpoint for Island level was 52.15 Gigatons?

> They could totally see how big it was, and assuming that Big Mom can't create storms that big is ignoring the previous day in the arc where she raised a storm so big that it covered the whole island.

Isn't the energy requirements for creating the storm very different to creating a lightning bolt?
 
I thought we took the average of the two numbers? Which in this case would be ( 100 + 4.3 ) / 2. At least that's what I think is stated in this page.
 
That actually doesn't make any sense. The tiering level consists on the lower end (in this case 4.3 Gigatons) and the upper end (100 Gigatons). Adding both would be grounding the next tier.

I think they missed this because they were using round numbers that gives the same result (since the difference between 2 and 11 is 9 and divided by 2 it's 6.5, the same result is earned through a different method).

I should talk about this because it doesn't make any sense.
 
Calaca, 9 divided by 2 is not 6.5, it's 4.5
 
Nevermind, I noticed my mistake. It's 6-C.

With that settled, even if it's so near the +, we absolutely shouldn't add it without a calc actually landing that level. Scaling alone doesn't grant that, we have discussed that before with the High 8-C scaling before it was upgraded.

@Damage I know, I skipped a part of the reasoning :p. I just added the 4.5 to 2.
 
At least it is some solid supporting for 6-C rating for the Yonkou without having to rely on Zunisha.
 
Dr.Fix said:
Except Duff took massive damage from Luffy, beyond the point that his stamina could take. How can he have great durability when he goes down from 4 hits. You're really underselling his stamina just to high-ball his stats that just don't add up.
Click to expand...
Or you're just blatantly ignoring the fact that 1) Doflamingo's stamina was already lowered from Gamma Knife--seeing as how he was struggling to walk ever since 782, 2) He still outperformed Luffy in Gear 2nd/3rd with this handicap, and 3) Even with Gear 4th further harming Doflamingo, it wasn't enough to drain his remaining stamina, and also it didn't appear to do much in terms of damage either.

I already pulled examples of each hit affecting Doflamingo, and they were not "massive". You're simply downplaying. I'm not high-balling anything.

Again, you state "stamina, stamina, stamina" when that has nothing to do with your arm and head not breaking from the impact of a punch. Doflamingo's stamina was cut down by a lot thanks to Law, but he still managed to survive Gear 4th for an extended period, which just supports that he would be able to do so more easily had he not been hindered by his own injuries.

Points supporting Doflamingo's durability scaling:

1) He straight up blocks a punch w/ out Haki, and his arm is fine even if he got sent flying by the force.

2) He took two attacks to his head, one time without protection, and all that he received was a small bruise.

3) He took an attack aimed directly at his injuries from earlier in the fight, and still remained conscious before standing back up and could continue the fight.

4) Not to mention their fight continued for 20+ minutes off-panel before returning to Leo Bazooka.

Points rejecting Doflamingo from scaling:

1) The attacks massively damag--oh wait... hah... no they didn't.

Also, I absolutely adore how you claim "he goes down from 4 hits". First of all, those 4 hits didn't finish him off, and he got back up to continue fighting, and secondly, he didn't take "4 hits" the entire fight. How many times must I repeat myself before you stop BSing? He took Red-Hawk, got stabbed, got stabbed again, got repeatedly hit in his injuries from Gamma Knife by Luffy, got repeatedly punched and kicked several times, and THEN Gear 4th popped. Still took 4 hits and got back up.

Doflamingo's durability is scaling.
 
Your links are broken. Don't blame others for that.

As far as skulls needing to break open from punches to be considered good damage, you should probably reevaluate your definition/expectation of damage.

Its a fact Duffy was being manhandled by Gear 4, with no option but to outlast him (Ie straight up stamina). He couldn't "block" as you cite. Luffy has too much speed and power for that. I guess if "block" is defined by you as anything apart from being one-shot into a mangled mess, then maybe.

You keep citing Duffy injury while avoiding the fact that Luffy was just as damaged. You can exaggerate/downplay these events but that doesn't work either because of the positive correlation. The more you downplay Their injuries the more you downplay Duffy's stat's. The more you say Duffy is way above Luffy Gear 1-3 and Law the more weakened Luffy is before getting to pull out Gear 4.

It just doesn't work out anyway other than this:

likely High 7-A/High 7-A Gear 3

High 7-A/At least high 7-A Duffy

At Least high 7-A+/At Least High 7-A+, likely 6-C Gear 4

Or

Luffy/Law<Duffy<<Gear 4, without a difference big enough to one-shot on either side.
 
@Fix - Someone appears too lazy to simply look at the panels, since the link provides the chapter number and page just fine.

Uhm, speed is another matter entirely and has no affect on durability/AP when it comes to such topics such as powerscaling.

And again, Doflamingo didn't receive any damage to his arms upon blocking Kong Gun.

Again, Luffy was not "Just as damaged". Drop this. Their injuries are incomparable.

I'm growing tired of repeating myself, so either you need to drop the topic entirely, or you need to refer to the Durability and Stamina pages since you very clearly have no idea what is being argued here. I simply used bones breaking as an example as to why Doflamingo would not scale under such circumstances, not a definitive reason why he should scale.
 
Then stop repeating yourself if you're growing tired.

Option 1) Post a new point

Option 2) Admit you're not perfect

>>Again, Luffy was not "Just as damaged". Drop this. Their injuries are incomparable.

What do you expect with this? You said they're not comparable. I told you they are and cited proof. Your response is to to repeat and tell me to drop it? Why?

Attacks to my credibility won't work either. I don't need to check any pages just because you're unable to prove a point. You exaggerated the definition of an injry. I refuted it. You're comeback is to insult me rather than admit a miscalculation or add something new.

You also never addressed the relationship between the three either.

I'm off to bed. I don't feel like responding if all I get is "drop this" "they are incomparable because . . . " ??

G'night.
 
Hypocritical asf. I'm just going to treat you as irrelevant from here on out if you're incapable of understanding the difference between Durability and Stamina, and then trying to accuse me of high-balling Doflamingo simply because I am a fan of his character.

You're arguing the same topic, I am putting out points why I'm right, you disagree with them, I bring support to back them up, you are still not pleased. Sounds like you are the problem, not me.

I already pointed out the differences between Luffy and Doflamingo's injuries by the time it finally became a one-on-one. You seem to have skimmed over it, showing incredible lack of respect for anything I post considering how you seem clueless about what I am talking about now.

I love how you accuse me of thinking that I'm perfect, but you're not backing down from your points and simply mute out anything that denies them, and act like they dont exist.

Recommendation: Work on your arguments and brush up on your knowledge on the terms "durability" and "stamina" on this wiki, and also learn to not be so degrading simply because links I posted did not work (which I acknowledged and asked about).

Conclusion: Doflamingo's Durability scales. Kbye.
 
Apparently the actual method for lightning energy is undergoing some revisions among the calc group members, so we should wait before applying any changes involving those lightning calcs.
 
In regards to the Yonko's scaling, I think we can start eliminating some suspicion about if there's any disparity between them in terms of physical power, seeing as how Big Mom and Kaido clashed quite evenly (honestly, I'm waiting for Napoleon to snap. A cutlass coming into full contact with a spiked iron club? Disaster), but obviously, we'll have to wait and see if anything happens, otherwise the entire fight will occur off-panel.
 
Damage3245 said:
Apparently the actual method for lightning energy is undergoing some revisions among the calc group members, so we should wait before applying any changes involving those lightning calcs.
Click to expand...
If you talking about positive lightning, i did some digging for himself and i found this:

http://www.weathergamut.com/2015/08/06/the-positive-and-negative-sides-of-cloud-to-ground-lightning/

Assuming the blog is correct, positive lightnings must originate from the higher level of a storm cloud, which means the lightning bolt had to travel through more air to hit the ground, which also make the lightning bolt more powerful.

Now its currently hard to say if Zeus's Thunderbolt can be classify as positive lightning or as negative lightning, but personally it looks more like positive lightning, but maybe it would be better to wait more imput about the matter.
 
I agree waiting is for the best. Wouldn't effect the ratings anyway and best to do something right the first time. Might even get a higher result out of it.
 
@Roronoa; when was the Positive Charge mentioned?
 
Official Translation has it as "Electric Charge Black Balls". We might need to get the raws examined.
 
@Damage Yeah, I was referring to that and when Nami used her Black Balls on Zeus in Chapter 874. "Electric Charge Black Balls"? Well, in this Translation she says "Positive Charge Black Balls".

And this up-to-date Attack Guide also translate into "Positive Charge Black Ball":

Seidenka Black Ball

Kanji: µ¡úÚø╗ÞìÀÒâûÒâ®ÒââÒé»Òâ£Òâ╝Òâ½

Translation: Positive Charge Black Ball

But the raws should settle which translation is correct.
 
So... I've found this picture of the japanese raw of chapter 890.

As you can see in the second speech bubble, the kanjis used are the same in Roronoa's post which if translated in Google Translate the result is "Positive Charge Black Ball".
IMG 1328
I'm not surprised about Viz not translating the name of the attack accurately. Zolo is a thing, after all.
 
@Calaca; I've found that the literal translation when you boil it down is "Postive Electricity Charged Black Ball", so it looks like Viz just missed a word.
 
@Calaca, the current calc seems to be using different values to M3X's updated blog post.

But from what I understand he's still waiting for DontTalkDT to respond to it.
 
We probably should since the method that upgraded lightning feats has been downgraded, so we might get new results that might be higher than Town level.
 
Using the currently accepted Enel's El Thor calc, so according to M3X's blog:

The diameter is 43.99m so 21.995 is the radius.

  • Radius: 21.995 meters
  • Density: 9.54*10^7 A/m^2
  • Volts: 1e+8
  • Standard Timeframe: 10-190 microseconds

Surface Area = 3.14*r^2 = 3.14*21.995^2 = 1519.06928 m^2

Current = (9.54*10^7)*Surface Area = (9.54*10^7)*1519.06928 = 144919209312 A

Potency: 144919209312*1e+8 = 1.4491921e+19 W

Energy: 1.4491921e+19*0.00019 = 2.753465e+15 J or 658.0939292543021111 Kilotons (Large Town level+)
 
I also tried to calc this feat too, this is the result.

Radius: 28.6430769 m

Surface Area: 3.14*28.6430769^2 = 2576.13718 m^2

Current: (9.54*10^7)*2576.13718 = 245763486972 A

Potency: 245763486972*1e+8 = 2.45763487e19 W

Energy: 2.45763487e19*0.00019 = 4.66950625e15 J or 1.11603878 Megatons (Small City level)

Looks like Pre Timeskip characters may return to be Low 7-B
 
Hmm. I wonder if we could approximate the amount of energy that actually hits Wiper during that feat, going by surface area.

Just because the beam is so much wider than what hits Wiper directly. (And it would be silly to say that Wiper was entirely hit by the full amount since some of the energy went on to make the crater he ended up in.)
 
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