One Piece High 7-A Field Day (Wano+ Edition)

[Antvasima]

I trust Cameron's and Damage's senses of judgement to fix the scaling.

 

[Tetsucabrah]

"Shouldn't be weaker than Nami" never made sense to me as justification.

 

[Antvasima]

I trust Cameron's and Damage's senses of judgement to fix the scaling.

@Damage3245 @CinCameron20

What do you suggest should be done?

 

[CinCameron20]

For now, no adjustments to the characters, however Zoro's durability needs to be reverted to At least 7-A as he has no real justification for it being "High 7-A" since a character he momentarily incapacitated with one slash was able to apply a deep cut into him (and it would result in a circle-scaling mess).

Personally, I'd prefer reverting all changes that happened as a result of this thread. We should stick to discussing the scaling rather than jumping to scale characters to feats that are fresh, especially when this arc is no where near complete.

I'd honestly wait until after Act 3 of Wano before actually making changes since A LOT of battles are about to take place.

 

[Damage3245]

I'm in agreement with Cin.

 

[Eminiteable]

For now, no adjustments to the characters, however Zoro's durability needs to be reverted to At least 7-A as he has no real justification for it being "High 7-A" since a character he momentarily incapacitated with one slash was able to apply a deep cut into him (and it would result in a circle-scaling mess).

Said deep cut literally isn't that deep of a cut, the same thing happened to Kid and despite the initial impact looking impressive neither are shown with a deep injury or treat it as such. Plus this was already covered i believe that Zoro scales to his AP via Newton's laws, which doesn't apply for Apoo and his music since there's no proof for his music to scale to his durability. So what circular scaling issue are you referring too Cin?

 

[RadicalMrR]

I agree with Cin.

 

[Antvasima]

I still trust Cin and Damage.

 

[KingTempest]

@CinCameron20 iirc he said "always" be weaker, and it was from a physical standpoint. I'm just quoting the wiki here though, so it can be taken as valid or not.

According to Oda in a discussion with Mayumi Tanaka, Luffy's voice actress, 'no matter who joins, he always wants Usopp to be the weakest since it would upset the balance of the story. Oda also states that this is because Usopp is the only one in the entire crew who is the closest in strength as compared to a regular human.

 

[XDragnoir]

"Oda also states that this is because Usopp is the only one in the entire crew who is the closest in strength as compared to a regular human." Isn't that because Usopp uses projectiles? This seems more about their "punches" than their durability or power.

 

[CinCameron20]

@Eminiteable - I hope you're joking because if you have Apoo scaling from hurting Zoro (giving him High 7-A), and Zoro scaling from one-tapping Apoo ("upscaling" further), it's going to be an infinite loop and affect literally every character that Apoo/Zoro has had some form of engagement with.

Also, we still have to consider that Zoro could've been using Haki thus he should be "At least 7-A+ with Haki".

I'm finding it weird that he is upscaling half an entire tier when we don't do this for any other character or other verses for that matter (Before you bring up "Doflamingo", he has consistent cases against characters near the border for 7-A+ and is depicted far above such characters in several occasions, and he's not being upscaled nearly as much as Zoro currently is [and for ONE case that didn't even keep the opponent down]). Zoro was clearly unable to take out Apoo with ease and only did so while Drake was distracting him, and with Haki if we're assuming he used Shi-Shi Son Song. Apoo wasn't even taken out--yet the upscaling happened before the chapter came out to even show this. We don't even know how badly Apoo was wounded.

Also, I like how you dismiss the "deep cut" when Zoro had a massive wound and a good amount of blood coming out. Oda or his editors simply neglect drawing them in just like with every character in the series (Doflamingo, Luffy, Kaido, Katakuri, Zoro multiple times, Sanji multiple times, Chopper, Franky, and Robin all have varying cases in pre time-skip and post time-skip--all quite noticeable)

 

[KingTempest]

Me personally, I don't agree with High 7-A Durability Zoro. Apoo doesn't even have High 7-A AP, so Zoro getting High 7-A Dura off that actually makes no sense.

 

[CinCameron20]

At this point, I'd probably suggest we finally just go ahead and give everyone's profile (who is a confirmed Armament user) a "higher with Haki" for AP and Durability to avoid massive confusion since apparently no one wants to read the abilities where Haki gives "Stat Amp" and want to upgrade characters like Zoro for one-shotting x character when it's a Haki feat.

Obviously, like I said, this would wait until after we finish the current Act of Wano, and needs further discussion.

Zoro should not jump a literal tier for taking out Apoo (in a fight, not even a pure one-shot--which wasn't even a one-shot anyways). He was using Haki on his blades and (arguably--hard to tell) damaging his left handed Tonfa before swooping in with a surprise Shi-shi son song to take him out.

If anything: Zoro w/ Haki > Hybrid Drake =/> Apoo > Base Zoro =/>/< Base Drake in terms of AP/Dura

 

[Eminiteable]

@Eminiteable - I hope you're joking because if you have Apoo scaling from hurting Zoro (giving him High 7-A), and Zoro scaling from one-tapping Apoo ("upscaling" further), it's going to be an infinite loop and affect literally every character that Apoo/Zoro has had some form of engagement with.

Giving Apoo High 7-A AP yes, which I already proposed at least 7-A+ was more accurate for Apoo's Ap considering he Overpowered Luffy's blunt force resistance with blunt force and one hit KO'd him with his explosive attack.

But that's not circular scaling, are you trying to say if Zoro or Apoo fights someone else that they shouldn't scale? Because I'm really not seeing the issue or circular scaling issue you're presenting. Apoo's AP & Durability are separate.

Also, we still have to consider that Zoro could've been using Haki thus he should be "At least 7-A+ with Haki".

It would be up to you to prove he used haki in that instance, proving he used a stat amp but I'm pretty sure you already realise you can't, so no "thus he should be" isn't the case at all.

I'm finding it weird that he is upscaling half an entire tier when we don't do this for any other character or other verses for that matter (Before you bring up "Doflamingo", he has consistent cases against characters near the border for 7-A+ and is depicted far above such characters in several occasions, and he's not being upscaled nearly as much as Zoro currently is [and for ONE case that didn't even keep the opponent down]). Zoro was clearly unable to take out Apoo with ease and only did so while Drake was distracting him, and with Haki if we're assuming he used Shi-Shi Son Song. Apoo wasn't even taken out--yet the upscaling happened before the chapter came out to even show this. We don't even know how badly Apoo was wounded.

Cutting through two things with 7-A+ durability (cutting completely through the first and KOing the second) while using his weakest sword style, simple as. Keep in mind we currently have Kaido jump an entire time above and it's a larger increase than the one Zoro got, yet, no one was complaining on the tier jump. Most of your points in this section was already covered several times and it really makes me feel like you never bothered even reading the thread.

Also, I like how you dismiss the "deep cut" when Zoro had a massive wound and a good amount of blood coming out. Oda or his editors simply neglect drawing them in just like with every character in the series (Doflamingo, Luffy, Kaido, Katakuri, Zoro multiple times, Sanji multiple times, Chopper, Franky, and Robin all have varying cases in pre time-skip and post time-skip--all quite noticeable)

By all means Cin show me this massive wound, if Oda and his editors don't bother to draw the wound or treat it as a massive wound then guess what, it's not a massive wound. Zoro bleeding shows Apoo cut him but it's clearly not as deep as you wish for it to be.

At this point, I'd probably suggest we finally just go ahead and give everyone's profile (who is a confirmed Armament user) a "higher with Haki" for AP and Durability to avoid massive confusion since apparently no one wants to read the abilities where Haki gives "Stat Amp" and want to upgrade characters like Zoro for one-shotting x character when it's a Haki feat.

Cin still you have yet to prove how it's a haki feat, and now you're just going on about how it is?

Zoro should not jump a literal tier for taking out Apoo (in a fight, not even a pure one-shot--which wasn't even a one-shot anyways). He was using Haki on his blades and (arguably--hard to tell) damaging his left handed Tonfa before swooping in with a surprise Shi-shi son song to take him out.

Still yet to prove how it's a haki feat, if the opponent was knocked out it's a one shot, read the stamina page Cin to learn what recovery time is. he wasn't damaging the Tonfa's I already covered this, please read. And you using the term suprise attack means nothing since he attacked where Apoo's guard was up & we covered that durability doesn't magically lower, it was also covered that it wasn't Shishi Sonson but rather an unamed draw attack like the one he used on Hody Jones.

If anything: Zoro w/ Haki > Hybrid Drake =/> Apoo > Base Zoro =/>/< Base Drake in terms of AP/Dura

Delusional

 

[CinCameron20]

^This is an example of why I don't even bother arguing with these brick walls anymore. Already arguing points that were debunked several times until they get their biased results. Unfollowing the thread.

Also, anything regarding a "Kaido tier jump" is completely unknown to me. I have no idea what you are talking about. Every single upgrade that has been made recently needs to be reverted.

 

[Antvasima]

@CinCameron20

I think that the revisions that you and Damage agree about can probably be applied.

 

[Eminiteable]

Already arguing points that were debunked several times until they get their biased results. Unfollowing the thread.

Crazy how none of these points were debunked and you've made no attempt at debunking these points.

Also, anything regarding a "Kaido tier jump" is completely unknown to me. I have no idea what you are talking about. Every single upgrade that has been made recently needs to be reverted.

Why should a massive CRT just be reverted because you disagree with it?

Unfollowing the thread.

Concession via burden of rejoinder?

@CinCameron20

I think that the revisions that you and Damage agree about can probably be applied.

I don't think it can since the issue that both proposed is reverting Zoro's durability to "At least 7-A" to quote avoid circular scaling, yet there's no circular scaling issue here since Apoo's AP =\= Durability. I wonder why @Damage3245 thinks this as well since they're the one who proposed the Newton's law shit and agreed on it previously, doesn't make sense.

 

[Antvasima]

Everybody please try to calm down. This is not important enough to be upset about.

 

[Lgamer099_99]

@Eminiteable I think that we can just wait for others feats for Zoro, I mean if Cin and the others disagree then you just have to wait. It's a metter of time before Zoro and other characters who are downplayed on this site will show their true strength. Just be patience.

 

[XDragnoir]

This CRT wasn't massive, the only page with important changes was Zoro.

 

[Antvasima]

Can somebody remind me what was done here and why please, and why there is a disagreement about it?

 

[XDragnoir]

Iirc, Apoo, Drake and Kid were upgraded to 7A+ and Zoro to H7A, idk about the disagreements, there were quite a few across the entire thread.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Maybe he could have the same durability rating as they do, but higher AP when using a sword and haki? Or would that be a bad solution?

 

[XDragnoir]

It would be a good solution, but not everyone agrees with that, sigh. The reason to a few disgreeing being that we can't say if he is using haki or not, btw.

 

[Damage3245]

I think a better solution would be to change Zoro's rating for the moment to:

"At least 7-A+, likely higher".

We don't really need to upscale him to another tier.

 

[Eminiteable]

This CRT wasn't massive, the only page with important changes was Zoro.

Talking about the Yonko downgrade to 6-C since it was a pretty massive CRT, yet Cin is now proposing we revert it based off nothing.

 

[Eminiteable]

"At least 7-A+, likely higher".

Sounds fine, if upscaling to another tier is too much that's fine.

But I disagree with the notion he used haki since that would need evidence. And that for some reason his durability is lower than his AP.

 

[XDragnoir]

Talking about the Yonko downgrade to 6-C since it was a pretty massive CRT, yet Cin is now proposing we revert it based off nothing.

I think the "recent changes" were talking about the Zoro related upgrades, and not the 6C thing.

 

[Eminiteable]

Also, anything regarding a "Kaido tier jump" is completely unknown to me. I have no idea what you are talking about. Every single upgrade that has been made recently needs to be reverted.

Nah look again

 

[XDragnoir]

Kaido's was a downgrade, he said the upgrades.

 

[Antvasima]

I think a better solution would be to change Zoro's rating for the moment to:

"At least 7-A+, likely higher".

We don't really need to upscale him to another tier.

Would the rest of you be fine with this solution?

Also, what else do we still need to do here?

 

[Eminiteable]

Would the rest of you be fine with this solution?

Also, what else do we still need to do here?

Luffy's Gear fourth no longer scaling to G3 but rather base is probably the most important once the Zoro scaling can move on.

 

[Eminiteable]

Kaido's was a downgrade, he said the upgrades.

If he didn't mean the downgrade thread then yeah you're right, but since he supposedly has no knowledge on it and is referring to the Kaido shit previously it does seem like he's proposing to revert it.

 

[Antvasima]

Luffy's Gear fourth no longer scaling to G3 but rather base is probably the most important once the Zoro scaling can move on.

Okay. Thank you for the summary.

 

[Dr.Fix]

Would the rest of you be fine with this solution?

@CinCameron20 unfollowed because of "brick walls" so it would be a little dishonest to go through with this at this point. I agree with him that all revisions made should just be undone and re-examine where everyone stands in a fresh thread Cin says he will start.

 

[Antvasima]

That seems a bit drastic.

 

[Dr.Fix]

That seems a bit drastic.

How so? Cameron knows more about the verse than you do.

 

[KingTempest]

It is extremely drastic.

The upgrades were "lolnoped" because people didn't understand them.

I explained every upgrade proposition and it was put back to "based on emotion and feeling" which eventually got thrown into useless propositions just so they don't scale too high.

You Guys: This doesn't make sense. Why would he get High 7-A?
Me and Emit: He upscales from a mountain+. He cut through 2 Mountain+ things at once with his weakest sword form and he could use much stronger techniques, so he would be at least baseline High 7-A scaling off of that. He cut right through his 7-A+ weapon and drew blood from his 7-A+ body with an unnamed sword slice.
You Guys: This is dumb, it's all based on emotion. We should say "at least mountain+, higher w/ haki". There's no reason to put him at High 7-A. We should wait a year until this arc is done before we try to get anybody but Luffy above Mountain+.
Everyone: Agreed, this makes sense.
Me: The hell?

Keep making random compromises. Yall are gonna compromise the god tiers to 7-B in a few CRTs at this rate. For some reason, it's not internal bias since one of the "compromisers" has helped w/ a myriad of scaling for the verse, but it's confusing me and pissing me off that you guys just want a downgrade because "it doesn't make sense" or "it feels shaky" or "I don't think we should".

I don't care.

Every upgrade that didn't make sense or that people didn't agree with, I removed it from the OP.

I've removed Fujitora, Sabo, and Jack, and those who scale off him.
I've removed High 7-A Durability Apoo and Drake.
I've removed the Scabbards and the Calamities.
And y'all still want more downgrades? Even the Doflamingo one was put to "emotion", yet I sent scans and debunked counter arguments which have not been countered.

Damage started off debunking points, no issues shown, I just removed them from the OP since the counters made sense.
Apoo scaling to Kizaru was countered with "outlier", even though CinCameron was the same one who needed justification for Doflamingo being weaker than Admirals. It's humorous at this point.
Everyone said "no". Why? Just "no", and I deleted it from the OP no questions asked.

Someone cut into a High 7-A person and someone scales above him via "strongest sweet commander", "Haki", and everyone nodded their heads, like when the hell did we make Haki a durability negator?

Your "no" is not an argument, and I'm not letting 5 pages of "compromises" and explanations be thrown to the side because some people don't like a good amount of characters scaling up.

Nobody even talked about the admirals who I said in the OP we should discuss, you guys just get angry at the mention of at least High 7-A characters that aren't Luffy or the Yonko.

OP's request, go "fix" the changes and close this thread. I'm tired of this bs

 

[KingTempest]

Can somebody remind me what was done here and why please, and why there is a disagreement about it?

Zoro being High 7-A is shaking the entire VSBW community for some reason.
Kid, Apoo, and Drake were put to 7-A+ scaling off of Apoo who tanked Kid's attack.

Katakuri and Cracker were put to "at least 7-A+" for some reason, since there's "no explanation" for them upscaling to High 7-A (cutting into a High 7-A's body isn't good enough, punching him around isn't either).

Doflamingo's Awakening Durability is "safely" put at at least 7-A+ I'm assuming, since we discussed it, counters were debunked, and people went to "it doesn't make sense".

 

[Lgamer099_99]

7-A+ Zoro seems resonable.