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One Piece God-High Tiers Revision

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KingTempest

KingTempest

He/Him
VS Battles
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Introduction​

This content revision thread is to discuss those who aren't high Tiers of One Piece but they aren't god tiers, right in the middle to be exact.

I request that we strictly talk about Attack Potency, Striking Strength, and Durability in here. We will not talk about any abilities, any speed ratings, any intelligence ratings, none, just how the abilities shown in here scale to others.

The Calculation​

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:KingTempest16/Whitebeard_God_Tier_Calcs_(One_Piece)

This is a feat pulled off by Marshall D. Teach, or Blackbeard.

​

The Admirals would scale based off of a specific statement found on chapter 595.
0595-008.png
0595-009.png


This statement is the justification. Blackbeard who could use Kaishin and Shima Yurashi plus 2 colors of Haki feared Akainu. He has no issue with the ship, but Akainu's power feared him.
Akainu would be > Blackbeard.

We already know that Aokiji would scale for being = to Akainu, the question is, what about Kizaru? He'll scale to below.

​

The commanders (Portgas D. Ace, Flower Vista, Diamond Jozu, and Marco the Phoenix) scale to the admirals as equals, and not as anything else.
They were even stated to be the strongest pirate crew as of that time (raws, translation).

Marco​

Marco has feats of being equals to the Admirals with even a databook statement of being relative to their power. If all else fails, Marco would be the main person to scale.
He kicked Aokiji's ice saber in half and knocked him back, kicked Kizaru to the ground and blocked his lasers, and he blocked an angry punch from Akainu.
Marco even has a databook statement that I roughly translated. It says "In the war of the best, he faced the Navy admirals as equals and supported Luffy. His role was preponderant in the battle."

Jozu​

Jozu would be someone else who scales relative to the admirals in AP. In durability, he scales to the God tiers for tanking the WSS's flying slash. In AP, he scales to the God-High tiers for shattering Aokiji and drawing blood.
He was stated to have unparalleled toughness in the databook. That says a lot.

Vista​

Vista's current justification will be good enough.
(Contributed to fighting against Sakazuki (Admiral Akainu) alongside Marco on two occasions. Should thus be at least comparable to Jozu)

Ace​

Ace is controversial, but he will scale to the admirals for his current justification.

​

Portgas D. Ace is a wild card in the scaling from his feats in Marineford to his Antifeats against Blackbeard. He has 3 feats that I want to emphasize.

Matching Aokiji​

Portgas D. Ace matched Aokiji. It's really not that hard. He matched Aokiji.

Temporarily Matching Akainu​

Ace matched Akainu prior to being overpowered via superior heat. Please note, Akainu overpowering Ace is not attack potency based.

Akainu confirms devil fruit superiority.
Oda confirms the superiority of devil fruits in the series.
D: About the powers from the Dressrosa Arc that Doflamingo's officers have... are they pretty much just improved versions of the abilities that the Baroque Works members had (so like Ton Ton → Kilo Kilo, Beta Beta → Doru Doru, Buki Buki → Supa Supa, and Pamu Pamu → Bomu Bomu)? from TaokaS43

O: It's true that "superior" devil fruit abilities are a thing, but as of now, it's pretty much just these four pairs

500



(Ton Ton > Kilo Kilo, Hie Hie > Yuki Yuki, Magu Magu > Mera Mera, Buki Buki > Supa Supa)

Though there are other fruit pairs out there that might make you wonder don't they pretty much do the same thing?, these abilities tend to be headed in different directions in terms of how they actually work or what they can do. Also, a superior ability does not necessarily equate to the character's strength. No ability alone guarantees victory in combat.
Click to expand...
So he basically says that superior ability ≠ AP. So saying that Akainu, who was matched with Ace for a good amount of time, was superior in AP, is just wrong.

Fighting Whitebeard​

Ace (who fought Jinbe and Yamato) originally wasn't even able to make Whitebeard use his Gura Gura no Mi, signifying pre story Ace's weakness. Later down the line, Ace was able to leave a slight burn on Whitebeard. So Ace would backscale from his 26 TT, and 14 TT (where the admirals scale now) seems good enough.

Scaling Above Blackbeard​

Blackbeard hurt Ace via hitting him in weak spots (stomach and neck). Unless we scale his physicals to/above his DF, which I have no issues with, him scaling above Ace is a no.

​

Old Rayleigh matched Kizaru, he scales.

​

​

Jinbe does not scale to anyone here.

But he matched Ace​

Like I stated above, this was an Ace who wasn't trained by Whitebeard. This was Ace before he met Whitebeard.
Same reason why when Yamato (Wano) gets a profile, she wouldn't scale to Ace.

But he blocked Akainu​

And he got impaled by him too. Plus this would bring huge issues in the scaling, like how Gear Second Luffy could match and wound Jinbe. This isn't good.

​

Doflamingo does not scale to anyone here.

He held back Jozu​

This was never an Attack Potency feat. When was holding people back Attack Potency? Not including the fact that prior to that feat, Jozu was charging to someone else.

It's not inconsistent at all​

This scaling leads to Luffy during Dressrosa being comparable (if not superior to) the Admirals, which is a huge issue and what is on the current profiles.

We will find out his scaling later, maybe he could scale to Ace's passive feat, maybe something else. The point is that he does not scale to the God-High tiers, especially since he matched Crocodile who got absolutely bodied by Jozu.

In Conclusion​

The God-High tiers should be boosted significantly, but some people wouldn't scale to them.

Agree to All: @LordGinSama, @joshpiece,
Agree to All but Ace: Likely @Damage3245,
Agree to All but Commanders: @Stefano4444, @Donquixote_DeadPanky, @Axxtentacle,
Agree to Ace Partially Scaling: @Eminiteable, @StrawHatArslan, @DemonGodMitchAubin, @KlinkyGrape
Neutral:
 
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6-B Ace is perfectly reasonable, he has direct feats of matching Kuzan's Ice attack, left burns on Whitebeard and recovered from his clash with Akainu almost immediately and was ready to continue to fight. Ace was also incredibly weakened at this point as he suffered immense torture while at Impel Down, while also weakened due to Seastone, and him getting overwhelmed by Akainu is due to The Magu Magu being superior to the Mera Mera in canon.
 
Portgas D. Ace matched Aokiji. It's really not that hard. He matched Aokiji.
Click to expand...

While this is a notable feat, part of me is willing to put this down to their Devil Fruits countering each other. Ace also didn't get involved in a fight with Smoker because of the interaction of their Devil Fruits.

Ace (who fought Jinbe and Yamato) originally wasn't even able to make Whitebeard use his Gura Gura no Mi, signifying pre story Ace's weakness. Later down the line, Ace was able to leave a slight burn on Whitebeard. So Ace would backscale from his 26 TT, and 14 TT (where the admirals scale now) seems good enough.
Click to expand...

Whitebeard stomped Ace a hundred times when Ace kept trying to assassinate him, even while casually in his sleep. I don't think Ace should be scaling to Whitebeard at all given the clear superiority he has to him.

Whitebeard also used his Devil Fruit agaisnt John Giant, and fodder Marines. Whitebeard using his Devil Fruit against Ace is not a significant feat.

And a slight burn? That seems like fairly negligible damage.
 
I agree with Damage on Ace, everything else in the OP is fine

I just take significant issue with scaling Ace to Post-Gura Gura BB, when he lost to Pre-Gura Gura BB, who got wrecked by a dying Whitebeard, not to mention Ace getting wrecked by Akainu and being told he has a weaker power, in general I would write off his clash with Aokiji as good DF affinity and that's it
 
Whitebeard bitch slapping Ace was before Ace had gotten training from Whitebeard himself.

He doesn't have significant Anti Feats and he's portrayed as being in the upper end of the Commanders along side Marco. And all of his feats were done while he was weakened.
Damage3245 said:
While this is a notable feat, part of me is willing to put this down to their Devil Fruits countering each other. Ace also didn't get involved in a fight with Smoker because of the interaction of their Devil Fruits.
Click to expand...
Smoke and Fire negate one another, Fire and Ice don't do the same. Kuzan being the same ice user who could catch hands with the Magu Magu so his Ice isn't really weak to fire in a conventional sense.
Damage3245 said:
Whitebeard stomped Ace a hundred times when Ace kept trying to assassinate him, even while casually in his sleep. I don't think Ace should be scaling to Whitebeard at all given the clear superiority he has to him.
Click to expand...
Read above
Damage3245 said:
Whitebeard also used his Devil Fruit agaisnt John Giant, and fodder Marines. Whitebeard using his Devil Fruit against Ace is not a significant feat.
Click to expand...
The difference is they didn't push him to use his Gura Gura rather than his physical strength.
 
Agree with Akainu scaling to Marineford Arc Blackbeard, despire having WB's Devil Fruit it was clearly show that it would had be too much for him.
And considering that Akainu's attacks did match WB's quakes, is not far-stretch to assume that his AP is comparable to Blackbeard's AP via Devil Fruit.

Agree with Aokiji and Kizaru scaling to Akainu, Aokiji and Akainu fought each other for days and severely harm each other.
And Kizaru had always been treated as their equals, i don't see good reason for him not to scale.

Agree with Rayleigh scaling to Kizaru, that was also clearly show in Sabaody Arc.

I am a bit more hesitant with the Top Yonko Commanders, the Admirals have been potrayed to be overall stronger than Marco, Jozu, Vista and Ace.
They did fought them and hold their own, but they were still weaker than them.
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
I agree with Damage on Ace, everything else in the OP is fine

I just take significant issue with scaling Ace to Post-Gura Gura BB, when he lost to Pre-Gura Gura BB, who got wrecked by a dying Whitebeard, not to mention Ace getting wrecked by Akainu and being told he has a weaker power, in general I would write off his clash with Aokiji as good DF affinity and that's it
Click to expand...
This is a blatant lack of context.


BB Vs Ace

This can't be used as an anti feat to discredit Ace's scaling, Teach has access to the Yami Yami no Mi, which negates Ace's main form of fighting. And even then, Teach by no means "wrecked" Ace, going by Van Augar's own words they're equal in power, which is what we're shown as they're shown matching each other blow for blow. Ace only lost due to his Entei being absorbed by Teach's Power Absorbing Darkness.

BB vs Whitebeard

Again this isn't an anti feat, Teach was shown to absorb his quakes and injured Whitebeard with his strikes as well, so by no means this an anti feat. Whitebeard used his Bisento and Haki to harm Teach, and pinned him down attacking him with a quake to the face which still didn't kill him.


Ace vs Akainu

Akainu's Magu Magu no Mi is specifically >>> Ace's Mera Mera no Mi, they both work on a system of Superiority to one another. Same thing with Kuzan's Cold Cold Fruit and Monet's Snow Fruit, and Magma can smother fire.


He wasn't wrecked either, they clashed Ace got burnt and he got back up almost immediately. Him getting impaled can't be used either as

A: Devil Fruit Superiority


B: He was saving Luffy.
 
Damage3245 said:
While this is a notable feat, part of me is willing to put this down to their Devil Fruits countering each other. Ace also didn't get involved in a fight with Smoker because of the interaction of their Devil Fruits.
Click to expand...
Smoker's DF seems like a completely different issue.
Smoker's fruit is Gas. It's not like he can hurt you with the gas (which he's never done to anyone), it's properties straight up block fire, so AP wouldn't count in that sense. Ice doesn't block out fire and vice versa, so the fact that his cold ice matched his fire shows relativity. Especially the fact that 6-B fire 2x above baseline wouldn't just melt out of nowhere to any fire.
Damage3245 said:
Whitebeard stomped Ace a hundred times when Ace kept trying to assassinate him, even while casually in his sleep. I don't think Ace should be scaling to Whitebeard at all given the clear superiority he has to him.
Click to expand...
I said that Ace would backscale a large amount for a light burn, and 12 Teratons under seems good enough. And those instances where he kept trying to assassinate him were prior to the 99 times, when he was weak.
Damage3245 said:
Whitebeard also used his Devil Fruit agaisnt John Giant, and fodder Marines. Whitebeard using his Devil Fruit against Ace is not a significant feat.
Click to expand...
You misread that part.
I'm saying that Ace grew from his strength. Whitebeard didn't use his Devil Fruit on Ace initially, but as time grew he would've had to.
I didn't state this in the OP, but pre Wb training, Ace matched a Vice Admiral. Training with Whitebeard (losing 99 times) would make way for scaling to the Admirals via his feats at Marineford.

DemonGodMitchAubin said:
I just take significant issue with scaling Ace to Post-Gura Gura BB, when he lost to Pre-Gura Gura BB, who got wrecked by a dying Whitebeard,
Click to expand...
Ace lost to a Pre-Gura Gura BB via absorbing all of his attacks. Every single attack that Ace shot that landed on BB harmed Blackbeard to the point of where even Blackbeard's teammates noted his strength and fighting ability. His spears that barely even had time to charge up went straight through his body. Ace is not weak.
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
not to mention Ace getting wrecked by Akainu and being told he has a weaker power
Click to expand...
KingTempest said:

Temporarily Matching Akainu​

Ace matched Akainu prior to being overpowered via superior heat. Please note, Akainu overpowering Ace is not attack potency based.

Akainu confirms devil fruit superiority.
Oda confirms the superiority of devil fruits in the series.
D: About the powers from the Dressrosa Arc that Doflamingo's officers have... are they pretty much just improved versions of the abilities that the Baroque Works members had (so like Ton Ton → Kilo Kilo, Beta Beta → Doru Doru, Buki Buki → Supa Supa, and Pamu Pamu → Bomu Bomu)? from TaokaS43

O: It's true that "superior" devil fruit abilities are a thing, but as of now, it's pretty much just these four pairs

500



(Ton Ton > Kilo Kilo, Hie Hie > Yuki Yuki, Magu Magu > Mera Mera, Buki Buki > Supa Supa)

Though there are other fruit pairs out there that might make you wonder don't they pretty much do the same thing?, these abilities tend to be headed in different directions in terms of how they actually work or what they can do. Also, a superior ability does not necessarily equate to the character's strength. No ability alone guarantees victory in combat.
Click to expand...
So he basically says that superior ability ≠ AP. So saying that Akainu, who was matched with Ace for a good amount of time, was superior in AP, is just wrong.
Click to expand...
I already explained why this is not Attack Potency Mitch, this is devil fruit superiority.
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
in general I would write off his clash with Aokiji as good DF affinity and that's it
Click to expand...
Read above.
 
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What I see is that everyone agrees with everything except Ace scaling to BB.

Counters Against​

He lost to BB pre Gura Gura.
He's weaker than Akainu.
He matched Aokiji because of elemental advantage (smoker example).
He did a slight burn to a 26 TT character, not that bad.

Counters Against Above​

He lost via DF advantage, not via AP.
He's not weaker, Akainu's DF has superiority.
Smoker example is bad.
I'm backscaling from a 26 to justify scaling to a 14, I'm not scaling to the 26.
 
Unless you believe that Whitebeard’s crew is stronger than Xebec’s. And if you believe that is accurate, then you also must believe it would take roger and his crew + garp and some other marines to defeat old Wb and his crew.

Really hard to believe due to them (without wb and ace) being obliterated by Teach, one of the weakest yonko if we take this scaling for consideration. Plus BB and his entire crew were scared to fight akainu which was all by himself, but was able to completely destroy the rest of Wb crew, it was stated that it was not even a contest.
if we go by this logic, akainu is stronger than Marco and the rest of the crew combined, which means he is vastly stronger than Ace too. Unless you believe akainu is stronger than Roger and garp, this is just impossible.
 
Donquixote_DeadPanky said:
Unless you believe that Whitebeard’s crew is stronger than Xebec’s. And if you believe that is accurate, then you also must believe it would take roger and his crew + garp and some other marines to defeat old Wb and his crew.

Really hard to believe due to them (without wb and ace) being obliterated by Teach, one of the weakest yonko if we take this scaling for consideration. Plus BB and his entire crew were scared to fight akainu which was all by himself, but was able to completely destroy the rest of Wb crew, it was stated that it was not even a contest.
if we go by this logic, akainu is stronger than Marco and the rest of the crew combined, which means he is vastly stronger than Ace too. Unless you believe akainu is stronger than Roger and garp, this is just impossible.
Click to expand...
That databook statement never claimed "of all time" so comparing them to Rocks is false.
 
Donquixote_DeadPanky said:
Unless you believe that Whitebeard’s crew is stronger than Xebec’s. And if you believe that is accurate, then you also must believe it would take roger and his crew + garp and some other marines to defeat old Wb and his crew.
Click to expand...
Xebec has been dead since before Luffy was alive. They did not say "the history of the blues", they said "of the blues" which means as of that time period.
Donquixote_DeadPanky said:
Really hard to believe due to them (without wb and ace) being obliterated by Teach, one of the weakest yonko if we take this scaling for consideration. Plus BB and his entire crew were scared to fight akainu which was all by himself, but was able to completely destroy the rest of Wb crew, it was stated that it was not even a contest.
if we go by this logic, akainu is stronger than Marco and the rest of the crew combined, which means he is vastly stronger than Ace too. Unless you believe akainu is stronger than Roger and garp, this is just impossible.
Click to expand...
The payback war was a Year After Marineford, so in the middle of the timeskip. This is not an argument, they got stronger.

There's a difference between winning via AP and winning via skill. Teach fought a Marco who couldn't heal every time he was near him + dura neg + vibration manip + regen negation (via haki) and such.

You misinterpreted "strongest crew in all the blues" for "strongest crew in history". The WB pirates wasn't even a thing when Rocks was a thing.
 
I'm with everything but i remain neutral on Ace. I agree with ace being "Possibly 6-B" or even a Low 6-B.
 
KingTempest said:

Counters Against​

He lost to BB pre Gura Gura.
He's weaker than Akainu.
He matched Aokiji because of elemental advantage (smoker example).
He did a slight burn to a 26 TT character, not that bad.

Counters Against Above​

He lost via DF advantage, not via AP.
He's not weaker, Akainu's DF has superiority.
Smoker example is bad.
I'm backscaling from a 26 to justify scaling to a 14, I'm not scaling to the 26.
Click to expand...
If these two are the only issues with the actual scaling then a "Likely 6-B" rating could be given to Ace to resolve them.
 
Eminiteable said:
Not the damage he takes only the pain he experiences.
Click to expand...
“his gravity powers has the perpetual consequence that things such as his opponents attacks are attracted to him, which increases the power of the attacks and consequently the damage he takes from them.”
 
What do we put Pre Gura Teach at then, yall want him 6-B for hurting an almost dead WB and hurting Ace in his neck and stomach? Because with his current justification, that's where he scales.
 
The pain he takes is similar cuz he underwent the same pain and agony as he did after getting hit by jet pistol i believe.

My reason for ace not scaling to bb is because of the event he had with shanks in the past, was meant to be 2nd division commander pre yami, almost broke ace's neck with 1 punch pre gura, matched sengoku with gura & yami.

Ace did infact clash with Akainu eavenly but df superiority was in the way of that so maybe he can scale but ima wait till we get more input cuz rn the scalings are iffy. We have bb almost breaking ace's neck with 1 punch and then bb running from akainu who ace evenly matched physically.
 
Yeah, he almost broke his neck by hitting a weak point on the human body. So, I personally thing he's fine with that.
 
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