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0.3 seconds is decent but increase the distance.
use a distance from back to front 0º to front to back 180º for the entire distance of the punch, since he threw it straight then rotated it
use a distance from back to front 0º to front to back 180º for the entire distance of the punch, since he threw it straight then rotated it
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That sounds like it would be ignoring the point about the center of mass?
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I'm talking about distance, that's the distance the fist moved, so find the straight line then add it to the arc
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One frame is still best imo. Its nutty to assume a timeframe over a stated one
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I think if we use this calc, we should note in his speed section that he's MHS+/Sub-Rel (whatever speed his Bajrang Gun is calc'd at) with Bajrang Gun. Reason being, for this calc to hold any weight whatsoever, it is presupposed that his fist is moving at the calculated speeds, which is fine and all, as long as it is acknowledged on his profile. This is important because without such we'd be contradicting the calc by asserting Luffy's FTL+ even with Bajrang Gun, since SoL and faster KE isn't a thing.
To quote our KE rules page,
No kinetic energy for faster than light speeds: Kinetic energy calculated for FTL objects is not considered legitimate, as the kinetic energy of an object, using the correct physical description through relativistic mechanics, would require infinite energy to reach the speed of light, and for objects above the speed of light the equations wouldn't return real values. Since the energy would approach infinity towards the speed of light it also isn't allowed to use relativistic speed as an approximation for the kinetic energy of faster than light objects, since by using an approximation close enough to the speed of light any given value could be reached through that method.
Highlighting the key point here: "KE calc'd for FTL objects is not considered legitimate..." so if we accept that Luffy is FTL+ when throwing his Bajrang Gun punch (as per his profile) we would be violated our KE rules and the calc would bunk. However, if there's good rationale for Bajrang Gun to just be much much slower than Luffy's normal attack speed, then that's perfectly fine, slap that on his profile and we no longer are violating any rules.
I'm sure there are plenty of profiles on this site that don't abide by the above rule, but just preemptively speaking, let's not use that as an excuse or whataboutism to propagate malpractice when it comes to wiki standards.
I'm not making any arguments for or against the calc being used, I frankly don't care, but I felt it pertinent to point this out. This way we make sure that we adhere to site standards regarding KE as it pertains to the consequences from what this calc must assert.
To quote our KE rules page,
No kinetic energy for faster than light speeds: Kinetic energy calculated for FTL objects is not considered legitimate, as the kinetic energy of an object, using the correct physical description through relativistic mechanics, would require infinite energy to reach the speed of light, and for objects above the speed of light the equations wouldn't return real values. Since the energy would approach infinity towards the speed of light it also isn't allowed to use relativistic speed as an approximation for the kinetic energy of faster than light objects, since by using an approximation close enough to the speed of light any given value could be reached through that method.
Highlighting the key point here: "KE calc'd for FTL objects is not considered legitimate..." so if we accept that Luffy is FTL+ when throwing his Bajrang Gun punch (as per his profile) we would be violated our KE rules and the calc would bunk. However, if there's good rationale for Bajrang Gun to just be much much slower than Luffy's normal attack speed, then that's perfectly fine, slap that on his profile and we no longer are violating any rules.
I'm sure there are plenty of profiles on this site that don't abide by the above rule, but just preemptively speaking, let's not use that as an excuse or whataboutism to propagate malpractice when it comes to wiki standards.
I'm not making any arguments for or against the calc being used, I frankly don't care, but I felt it pertinent to point this out. This way we make sure that we adhere to site standards regarding KE as it pertains to the consequences from what this calc must assert.
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We can just say... lower?
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No you'd do sumn like "MHS+ with Bajrang Gun" and link the calc (MHS+ is a place holder here, idk what the actual calc'd value is).
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Not really, there's many instances on this wiki where we count KE of something via what the calc says but we don't use the calc as the limit of what the profile says
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Yeah they're wrong. They're in direct violation of our KE standards. Two wrongs =/= a right.
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Yeah no, I don't see why we'd suddenly start caring about this
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@Arc7Kuroi That would probably be better left for a CRT on scaling as a result of whatever changes are accepted here for the calc. Not for this thread.
Digital_Franz
He/Him- 1,564
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MHS+ attack speed with Bajrang Gun?
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And I don't find this worthwhile. The reason we don't do stuff like this is because a character can scale to one speed, but in terms of calculating stuff, that speed can vary from instance to instance. That's literally a big part of why our Calc Stacking page exists. It's not something we really throw onto profiles
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That is so real Damage.
Aight I'll drop it, someone else can make a CRT for it afterwards if they feel so inclined, I only brought it up because I believe it is rather pertinent to this thread.
Digital_Franz
He/Him- 1,564
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Really. In another scene the speed can be much greater.
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@Arc7Kuroi If that's the decision I'm fine with that
Second22
They/Them- 1,302
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So, all those punches are considered lifting strength just by calculating the energy from the punch divided by the punching distance? Because they can lift their own fists?
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What? No, that's not what he's saying. Yanking an island sized fist at MHS+ speeds is absolutely lifting, it's not just the act of punching
Second22
They/Them- 1,302
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The point is that all punches are the same. I don't quite understand why there needs to be a distinction between large and small characters. For example, if there is a giant 2 kilometers tall, would his punch be considered lifting strength because of the larger fist size? Is there a specific criterion regarding size that determines whether this method of calculation is applicable? If Luffy's fist is of normal size but moves at MHS+ speed, can it be calculated this way?
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Yeah, punching is also considered Striking Strength ain’t it as well?
After all, I don’t usually count punching as Lifiting unless it comes with other actions and so on
This is technically derailment from the original topic and The act of punching are usually considered striking strength since you know, you striking an enemy with a punch.
Second22
They/Them- 1,302
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I'm not sure if this is derailment because this thread still discusses calculating lifting strength a little. I'm just here to ask my questions out of curiosity.
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In this case, Luffy is pulling the mass of a giant ball far above him at MHS+ speeds. That's quite different from a regular punch
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There is the Q&A forums or if you prefer, talk to specific staff members that has some general knowledge regarding that specific part. Beside, you kinda don’t need to broaden the topic that was to handle concerns with a calc and all
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It isn't just a punch, rotating that fist will require centripetal force
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bump
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I haven't accounted for this just yet, as I'm not sure what the ongoing stance is for that
But aside from that, I've now got ends upon ends for y'all to take your pick from
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- Thread starter
- #311
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I can't think of a good way to find that.
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No. Why on god's green earth would we assume a timeframe over a shown one?
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Because the shown one is unreliable.
Sorry, but I find it hard to believe that out of the hundred frames of animation there, only one of them is actually depicting movement properly and all the others are conveniently wrong.
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I'm not really a big fan of assuming timeframes over using shown ones, though. I mean, the big sentiment at the time was "wait for the anime" and now that the anime's here, it's "don't use the anime"?
Digital_Franz
He/Him- 1,564
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Since then it seems that the timeframe is a problem for some.
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I get what you mean, but my perspective at least is "Wait for the anime to have more information to work with" and now that we've got access to that information I've evaluated it as not being very reliable. Others can evaluate it and interpret it differently.
It's not like every single depiction by the anime is a worthwhile timeframe anyway. Remember how long it took Pica to do anything in the drawn-out Dressrosa episodes?
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But Damage is right, if we used any of the other frames on-screen aside from this very last one we would have vastly lower results.
The last frame doesn't show any movement on-screen, it's just the aftermath of the punch, that's why it's a still picture.
The last frame doesn't show any movement on-screen, it's just the aftermath of the punch, that's why it's a still picture.
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I mean I've just provided every conceivable end that's been discussed here that isn't just straight up the original calc. Y'all are free to do as you wish with it, that's just what I personally make of things - a bit strange, but I kinda get it
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Cause that's the only frame that doesn't have something in the way of Luffy's fist??
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