One Piece Chapter 1030: Echoes the impermanence of all things (Fan Translations)

[SnookB]

?????????

Based on what???

Based on a few that were shown?

Kaido reverts back to base only to bop the akazaya nine, when his dragon form couldn't.
Jack reverts to base to fight Inu and Neko, when his Zoan form couldn't.
King hasn't used his full Zoan once against Zoro.
Lucci's Zoan is literally just going cat and biting Luffy once when he was immobilized in the air, which is far less impressive than going blow for blow with him base to base.
It's mostly dependant on the fruit, since abilities like Hito Hito can either be disadvantageous (like in Chopper's base), or just make little difference unless activated (Like Sengoku), while Jack, Kaido, King and Lucci have all showed better performance in their bases than Zoan forms.

 

[KingTempest]

Based on a few that were shown?

Kaido reverts back to base only to bop the akazaya nine, when his dragon form couldn't.

Not a single person took a hit from Kaido, and he only finished them when they were exhausted. The only person who Dragon Kaido hit was Kawamatsu, who got KO'd.

Jack reverts to base to fight Inu and Neko, when his Zoan form couldn't.

Because fighting someone as an elephant is not wise, especially when they're easily able to lift and flip you. Elephants aren't good fighting wise.

King hasn't used his full Zoan once against Zoro.

Base King matched RS Sanji
Zoan King pushed him into a building and hurt him and threatened to put a hole in his body.

Lucci's Zoan is literally just going cat and biting Luffy once when he was immobilized in the air, which is far less impressive than going blow for blow with him base to base.
It's mostly dependant on the fruit, since abilities like Hito Hito can either be disadvantageous (like in Chopper's base), or just make little difference unless activated (Like Sengoku), while Jack, Kaido, King and Lucci have all showed better performance in their bases than Zoan forms.

Not impressive showings ≠ weaker. He drew blood with his Leopard form, that's a feat.

 

[XDragnoir]

Based on a few that were shown?

Kaido reverts back to base only to bop the akazaya nine, when his dragon form couldn't.
Jack reverts to base to fight Inu and Neko, when his Zoan form couldn't.
King hasn't used his full Zoan once against Zoro.
Lucci's Zoan is literally just going cat and biting Luffy once when he was immobilized in the air, which is far less impressive than going blow for blow with him base to base.
It's mostly dependant on the fruit, since abilities like Hito Hito can either be disadvantageous (like in Chopper's base), or just make little difference unless activated (Like Sengoku), while Jack, Kaido, King and Lucci have all showed better performance in their bases than Zoan forms.

Most seem more a case of compatibility than outright statistics gaps, we have seen Kaido attacking them with his dragon arms and it's not weaker in the slightest even tho it didn't have Hao in it.

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

I mean, Kaido is useless in his Dragon form, but Lucci barely used his Full Zoan and when he did he overpowered Luffy iirc.

Lucci I was overpowering Luffy anyways

 

[SnookB]

Not a single person took a hit from Kaido, and he only finished them when they were exhausted. The only person who Dragon Kaido hit was Kawamatsu, who got KO'd.

Because his chances of hitting them as a Dragon were far lower than when in his human form. The same applies against G4 Luffy, where Kaido reverted back to base for the Thunder Bagua. And Kawamatsu didn't get KO'd by Dragon Kaido?? You can literally see him awake alongside Inu, when human Kaido starts tapping the nine scabbards out.

Not impressive showings ≠ weaker. He drew blood with his Leopard form, that's a feat.

So does almost every piercing based attack. He drew blood via biting after all.

 

[KingTempest]

Because his chances of hitting them as a Dragon were far lower than when in his human form.

Based on what???

The same applies against G4 Luffy, where Kaido reverted back to base for the Thunder Bagua.

Where he reverted back to base for an amped speed attack in a form where he wasn't a big target? Heck, they were surprised he reverted back to base.

And Kawamatsu didn't get KO'd by Dragon Kaido?? You can literally see him awake alongside Inu, when human Kaido starts tapping the nine scabbards out.

1. We don't even know if that's him since the only other shadowy figure we see is definitely not a scabbard. Looks more like a number.
2. You see the silhouette of his eyes. Not enough to say he's awake

So does almost every piercing based attack. He drew blood via biting after all.

Regardless it doesn't prove that it's weaker

 

[SnookB]

Based on what???

Based on the fact that he didn't tag any of them prior to Kawamatsu and Kiku via Danmaku.

Where he reverted back to base for an amped speed attack in a form where he wasn't a big target? Heck, they were surprised he reverted back to base.

Therefore, HE acknowledges that his base is far better for fighting than his Zoan form, which was the point of this. Zoan full forms usually always lack versatility, with a few exceptions like Hito Hito's models.

1. We don't even know if that's him since the only other shadowy figure we see is definitely not a scabbard. Looks more like a number.
2. You see the silhouette of his eyes. Not enough to say he's awake

... He literally has the hat on- that's him. And the ears/Mane fit the bill for Inu than Neko, since he's got a fuller, rounder mane.
You see his sillhouette higher than the two that are down on the ground. That implies he's standing or kneeling, and a completely different spot from where Kaido smacked him, which means he DIDN'T get KO'D by Zoan Kaido.

Regardless it doesn't prove that it's weaker

Except for the fact that he chose to carry the fight longer in base initially than he did in Zoan. Against a far faster Luffy, mind you. Because Luffy had to practically stay still for Zoan Lucci to land that bite during Gear 3.

 

[SnookB]

Anyway, fun as it is- this might be derailing the actual Chapter's talk, so let's hold off on it until it comes up in another thread?

 

[XDragnoir]

Also, even if it is Kawamatsu (i think it is), a human Hao amped attack didn't KO Kin for long, Kappa is > Kin so that doesn't mean much to say Human > Dragon

 

[SnookB]

Also, even if it is Kawamatsu (i think it is), a human Hao amped attack didn't KO Kin for long, Kappa is > Kin so that doesn't mean much to say Human > Dragon

I wouldn't say Kawamatsu's stronger than Kin.
I know it sounds redundant to say, but so far Kin's portrayal has been far better than Kawamatsu's.

 

[XDragnoir]

I wouldn't say Kawamatsu's stronger than Kin.
I know it sounds redundant to say, but so far Kin's portrayal has been far better than Kawamatsu's.

Iirc Kappa was said to be worth 100 men or something like that.

 

[SnookB]

Iirc Kappa was said to be worth 100 men or something like that.

Yeah, I think there was a line like that. It's just that both portrayal wise and action wise Kin feels like he should be stronger??
He's tanked the most out of the scabbards, and although he skipped 20 years, as far as we know, all the Scabbards have done barely anything in that gap and stayed at a similiar level throughout, while Kin fought through PH and Dressrosa, likely getting stronger in between those two arcs. While Kawamatsu sat in a cell eating poison fish for nearly twenty years and likely stayed stagnant.

 

[SnookB]

Iirc Kappa was said to be worth 100 men or something like that.

Yeah, I think there was a line like that. It's just that both portrayal wise and action wise Kin feels like he should be stronger??
He's tanked the most out of the scabbards, and although he skipped 20 years, as far as we know, all the Scabbards have done barely anything in that gap and stayed at a similiar level throughout, while Kin fought through PH and Dressrosa, likely getting stronger in between those two arcs. While Kawamatsu sat in a cell eating poison fish for nearly twenty years and likely stayed stagnant.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

What are y'all arguing?

Base Kaido > Dragon Kaido?

 

[KingTempest]

... He literally has the hat on- that's him.

That's not the only person on earth with that hat. Look at Oars Jr.

And the ears/Mane fit the bill for Inu than Neko, since he's got a fuller, rounder mane.
You see his sillhouette higher than the two that are down on the ground. That implies he's standing or kneeling, and a completely different spot from where Kaido smacked him, which means he DIDN'T get KO'D by Zoan Kaido.

That wide headed demon does not fit either of the Mink Kings at all.

That Silhouette could be Kawa, but that doesn't mean he's awake. He's probably sitting upwards or elevated on a higher level.

Except for the fact that he chose to carry the fight longer in base initially than he did in Zoan. Against a far faster Luffy, mind you. Because Luffy had to practically stay still for Zoan Lucci to land that bite during Gear 3.

You forget this Lucci has the skill of Rokushiki, the dura amps of Tekkai, the speed amps of Soru, the flight of Geppo, etc. correct?

You're acting like Lucci's regular punches and kicks are far superior to his Leopard form.

 

[Eminiteable]

Spoilers for chapter 1031 are out Here

 

[Antvasima]

I will close this thread then.