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Nocturne vs Iihiko (4-0, 3 more votes)
- Thread starter Rocker1189
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- #162
Because he should recognize that nocturne is taking over his body?Firephoenixearl said:
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I mean why not? I barely knoweither character if one is NLF then I would state the same lol.Firephoenixearl said:
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Rocker1189 said:
I mean ok i guess.
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Not sure what you expect me to say, I dont know either of them.
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Why would he recognize that?Rocker1189 said:
Im gonna say this in bold hoping that you guys will understand this time:
For an ability to force recognition, or for Iihiko to be unable to "not recognize" an ability, the ability would have to be based on "understanding". In a sense of "If someone understands the ability they get haxxed and if they don't they won't be affected by the hax". Some examples would be Ikki Kurogane's Fear Manipulation, Ban Midou's Jagan, Style Users, Weather Report etc. These are all based on whether you "understand the ability". If you understand the ability the ability works, that way it is impossible for Iihiko to both understand the ability and not recognize it, because by understanding the ability he has recognized the hax. On the other hand, if it is not based on understanding, then it will not work, because if it is not, it becomes possible for Iihiko to both see the ability and not recognize it, because understanding and the ability working are not the same thing in this case.
Possession is not based on understanding. Iihiko seeing that noc is trying to possess him won't make him go "yes i totally see that's a thing that will work on me, go ahead". He was punched in the face (something even more blunt than possession) and said "nah, not gonna recognize that".
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He has mo feat of power nullifcation for Possesion evn his profiles.Firephoenixearl said:
So, claiming he can would to an ability that he has no shown feats is NLFs.
I mean the Hax page even refer to feats:
- Having such abilities alone will not necessarily guarantee victory unless they have feats on such a scale that they can prove effective even against opponents with equal or even superior statistics to the user.
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Okay please explain why Jagan works.
in fact why does Ikki's fear manipulation work.
neither of these "force understanding".
in fact why does Ikki's fear manipulation work.
neither of these "force understanding".
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I mean this is so that I can understand what makes them so different to mind hax and other stuff, he has singled them out specifically.
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Jagan is literally "into my eyes you see another world, whatever you believe you will induce into yourself. Example if you believe that you die, your mind will subconsciously kill you due to it believing you died. This same effect can be produced with virtually any belief". So it doesn't matter what iihiko believes, it is what he believes that will end him. Not a random effect, the whole point of the jagan is based on your perception equalizing belief to effect. So Iihiko cannot believe he died, yet not die, because by believing he did he is acknowledging the jagan or telling his body to subconsciously die.
Ikki Fear Manip is not mind hax. That's why it works. Ikki as a desperado emits an aura. This aura is incredibly intense, anyone who feels this aura will percieve Ikki as a dangerous opponent. So it's not that he is "forcing your mind to fear him". He is just standing there, but it's Iihiko who will feel the aura that will "understand the danger of facing Ikki". That's the whole point, you understand you have no chance at winning this fight and that the opponent in front of you is TOO strong for you, that reduces in pseudo fear hax (pseudo is because it's not hax in the literal sense, just an intense aura that makes everyone scared, same as how you'd be scared if you saw a dude that's like 4x bigger than you walking right past you, even though you're not fighting him, you can understand that you'd stand no chance).
Ikki Fear Manip is not mind hax. That's why it works. Ikki as a desperado emits an aura. This aura is incredibly intense, anyone who feels this aura will percieve Ikki as a dangerous opponent. So it's not that he is "forcing your mind to fear him". He is just standing there, but it's Iihiko who will feel the aura that will "understand the danger of facing Ikki". That's the whole point, you understand you have no chance at winning this fight and that the opponent in front of you is TOO strong for you, that reduces in pseudo fear hax (pseudo is because it's not hax in the literal sense, just an intense aura that makes everyone scared, same as how you'd be scared if you saw a dude that's like 4x bigger than you walking right past you, even though you're not fighting him, you can understand that you'd stand no chance).
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- #173
Your jagan explanation makes no sense, whhy would Iihiko feel this in the first place, going by your explanation the Jagan first has to affect Iihiko for him to be able to experience it, for it to affect him he first has to recognize it. And according to you he wont be able to since the Jagan is an abilitiy that activates upon looking into Ban's eyes.
Ikki's fear manipulation also makes no sense, why exactly would Iihiko feel this aura in the first place, he cant even recognize a punch remember? The aura should be even less recognizeable.
Ikki's fear manipulation also makes no sense, why exactly would Iihiko feel this aura in the first place, he cant even recognize a punch remember? The aura should be even less recognizeable.
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I'm amazed at how much out of context you took that going from "forcing recognition" which is based on mechanics not potency, to force through as in break through his defense by overpowering it.
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you have not even answered my rebutals to your statements on how his ability would not work on those 2. because with the way you explain it, it logically should not.Firephoenixearl said:
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We never claimed he has accausality, just that time travel does not effect him offensively unless he recognizes the paradoxRocker1189 said:
He doesn't recognize the possession, pretty simple, just like the other stuff
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Ok, but how? What exactly is it pushing past the limit on?WeeklyBattles said:
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He has no feats showing he doesn't recognized possession here so claiming he can without feat is No Limits Fallacy (NLF)Iapitus The Impaler said:
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Uh, because Possession would fall under a super power, i.e. a skill as medaka box calls it, which he doesn't recognize. Unless something is more obvious than a kick to a face or even a barage of them, you cannot claim that it is beyond the limits of "not recognizing" that he has shown. Do you understand how his abilities work? He doesn't need to recognize it first to never recognize it again, Nocturne just has the extremely low chance that he will.
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What? If he never show the feat, you shouldn't see he can do; this is how abilties work, Iapitus The Impaler.Iapitus The Impaler said:
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We don't ask for Kharne to show feats of every single kind of power before the blessing of Khorne nullifies it, so why would Iihiko be any different? You don't need to show feats of every single super power that your power nullification works on, that's not how it works. Iihiko has been repeatedly stated, explained, and shown, that skills (i.e. super powers) do not reach him or effect him.
Now, there is the weakness for Iihiko that is missing from his profile. If an enemy hypes up their power enough for it to interest him, then he will agree to recognize it just cuz he wants to see how it will go, but otherwise I don't see possession working better than the other trillion super powers that failed against him
Now, there is the weakness for Iihiko that is missing from his profile. If an enemy hypes up their power enough for it to interest him, then he will agree to recognize it just cuz he wants to see how it will go, but otherwise I don't see possession working better than the other trillion super powers that failed against him
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If being of a higher potency was all that mattered, then the kind of power should not matter, which is kind of my point.Huesito88 said:
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Khorne isn't really the same case. He can used Power Nullification against the other chaos gods like who presence are indirectly responsible for all major superpowers like magic, and others- scaling from their conceptual associations.
It is even on his page:
It is even on his page:
- Power Nullification (Reflecting far more mortal ideas of honor and sportsmanship, Khorne has the ability to nullify more abstract and magic attacks generated by the other gods)
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Yes, and Iihiko can ignore all skills, which is the catch all term for super powers in general. They both have power null that works on a metric that encompases basically any given power they would likely be faced with.
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No, you don't understand. He doesn't recognize skills in general, that is how his powers work. If they are skills, just by the nature of his abilities, they don't work.Elizhaa said:
And anyway, Ajimu has the power to control human bodies, which he obviously has already resisted. That is in the veign anyway, so if your concern is just with that kind of power then he has you there as well
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The powers that he can nullified should scaled to what powers has been showned in the verse, then.Iapitus The Impaler said:
This case is a similar case to Rimuru who gained to resistances to all abilities with his reactive evolution from fighting Yuuki. Obviously. since there is not a full lists, we scaled his resistance to only abilties that he showned.
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I tried to get him rebanned just after he was allowed again lol. No one agreed with me though.
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Not mention what we should lihiko Matches went to Break Rules just unsetting Noc is Haxes op his Infinite speed Right?Sir Ovens said:
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Cannot null this without feats. Guys guys... name me 1 guy in this wiki which has all of the abilities he's ever nulled listed on his profile and he is kept at nulling those abilities only and nothing else. Seriously everything is getting dumb at this point. And whatever the next thread with iihiko is going to be I'm not jumping in. Am not gonna continue for 200 posts debating site rules and why they apply on iihiko as well.
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Because "inside" bans eyes he will see the other world. Iihiko is not getting affected he's just seeing through bans eyes not having his mind haxed so that he hallucinates. Ban is just creating another world. You get the rest.Rocker1189 said:
Because by verse equalization everyone feels ikki's aura. Iihiko not recognizing is not recognizing any negative effects. He still did feel that someone punched him, he just didn't feel the damage cus he didn't recognize it. Ikki is just a scary dude, that's the ability. As i said you don't feel any aura from a body builder but get the same effect. Same here.
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Yet Noc's powers wouldnt work despite the fact that a living nightmare made up of all the nightmares of all sentient life >>>>>>>>>>> a scary dude
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Yep because it doesn't work like his. Noc is flat mind hax, which won't get recognized, ikki can't just not get recognized.WeeklyBattles said:
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