Various Medaka Box Changes

[Firephoenixearl]

I agree with Agnaa on the Scar Dead issue.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I feel like Shibuki's profile would still need rewording, as it currently implies the wound re-opening negates durability. Also, shouldn't Gagamaru technically get something similar, as he's able to push away mental damage to others?

The mental damage part of Gagamaru would of course be negating durability as well, yes.

However, in finding that scan, I found this one, where it describes Scar Dead as:

• Forcefully reopening old wounds.
• The opposite of the healing process.
• Like an extreme version of your old wounds aching when it rains.

I feel like those last two descriptions sound more like something that would negate durability, while the first one could go either way.

Does this change your outlook on it, @DontTalkDT ?

I guess I can accept "opposite of healing process" as an indication of a mechanism for Scar Dead. (reverse regeneration that is)
I'm fine with it negating durability then.

---

I will get to Firephoenixearl's points later.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Regarding some of my points they are debunked by the scan agnaa posted. Although right now i am conflicted.

Cus Encounter is said to "reject the damage" instead of "healing the damage". But Scar Dead is said to work on him. So it's in a situation here of Encounter's statement contradicts Scar Dead's reverse regen and Scar Dead contradicts Encounter's statement.

I had a strong opinion previously but now i am not sure.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out with evaluations DontTalk.

 

[Agnaa]

Bump?

 

[Agnaa]

Is it fine if I edit Namanie Nienami's page to have Unknown speed with Contradictory Conjunction, like the other CC pages (Fukurou and Zenkichi)?

 

[DontTalkDT]

Probably.
That aside I thought we probably had sufficient agreement now? Or was something left to discuss?

 

[Agnaa]

• YungManzi and Bobsican disagree with Blackcurrant, Earl, Ion, DT, and I on making Ajimu's tier "Unknown, likely 3-A, possibly far higher". Given the large disparity in supporters and detractors, I think I'm fine with updating Ajimu's page in accordance with this.
• In regards to Encounter and Kakegae's note, Earl and Ion disagree with DT and I. Given the even split I'd hesitate to just apply this, and would rather bring in more staff if discussions have reached a standstill.
• Iapitus disagrees with everyone else on leaving Hanten as-is and on removing Iihiko's possession, but he hasn't been able to contribute to the thread with life taking his time away from the site, and has said he's okay with us moving forward without him. While I would like to hear from him on it, given the massive delay with no sign of him contributing any time soon, I think I'm fine with updating Iihiko's page and leaving Hanten's.

EDIT: Also, Medaka Kurokami and Misogi Kumagawa's pages weren't re-locked after being unlocked to apply earlier revisions. Nothing bad happened during that timeframe, but if you want, they can be re-locked.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I'd say we can probably add Ajimu's tier since it's accepted.

Iihiko and Hanten's case i'd say we go through with what was accepted. If Iap decides to come back to this he can always make another thread discussing just those.

Encounter and Kekage since both sides seem to have fair arguments and we can't really settle on one or decide the correct one, should we just go for a "possibly" on both?

 

[DontTalkDT]

I'm ok with possibly on Encounter under the condition that a relatively exhaustive list is added describing ways it might be resistible.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Resistable? You mean "could be resisted through causality manip" kind of stuff?

And where do you think this list should be on the P&A or in the notes section? In the P&A i guess i could do sth like this:

"Possibly Durability Negation via Causality Manipulation"

Btw what conclusion did we reach on the defensive part of Encounter (the healing or rejection part)? That too a "possibly"?

 

[Antvasima]

It seems that what has been agreed here can be applied then.

 

[Agnaa]

Could Ajimu's profile be unlocked?

I'm happy to apply some halfway solution on Encounter/Kakegae if Earl/DT can come up with some acceptable wording.

I personally wouldn't include "via Causality Manipulation"; I'd just explain the potential issues in a note.

And opinions are still divided on the defensive part, so that'd need some compromise too.

One last thing, this is probably a good time to ask, should Ajimu still be matchbanned? If so, should she be matchbanned for both keys, or just the unsealed key where we know almost 0% of her abilities?

 

[Antvasima]

I will unlock Najimi.

She should preferably still be matchbanned, yes. We do not know for certain what the author intentions were, as she is a walking mess of metafictional contradictions.

 

[Antvasima]

Tell me here when you are done.

 

[Agnaa]

Najimi's page has been updated, and can be locked again.

EDIT: I also noticed that Hanten's page is unlocked, and has been since January of 2019. It was locked for years beforehand, was it meant to be left unlocked like that?

 

[Antvasima]

Hanten is not as significant and controversial, but I will lock Najimi.

What is left to do here?

 

[Agnaa]

DT, Earl, and I to come up with some compromise on the wording of Kakegae and Gagamaru's notes.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Please elaborate regarding what the issues that you need to decide are.

 

[Agnaa]

DT and I want Encounter to be limited by feats. Earl and Ion think it has statements sufficiently strong to let it work on any 3-D attack, both in terms of its healing/blocking, and in terms of its redirection being able to negate durability. Earl thinks this should be noted akin to an ability/AP rating receiving a "possibly", DT's fine with that as long as an exhaustive list of ways it might be resistable is provided.

DT and I want Kakegae's note to be something along the lines of:

She has never demonstrated combining Eight Hundred Lies and Metonymy in any on-screen parts of her battles. The fact that her clones produced by Eight Hundred Lies can use the style themself might suggest that they are able to use her styles, though. The secondary clones have not demonstrated this ability.

With the notable functional change that Kakegae could fight with 639,999 copies of herself, and 1 copy of her opponent (or 1 copy of Iihiko/Medaka/Nanami).

Earl/Ion think that interpretation's too strict. I know that they consider all her clones capable of using her styles (and all of Fukurou's styles, were Fukurou to use it). And I think they might want it assumed that Kakegae can summon any amount of clones, over 640k at once.

Again, they want a "possibly" given for the less-strict interpretation.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

And I think they might want it assumed that Kakegae can summon any amount of clones, over 640k at once.

That is true although have to make a distinction between "can" and "will" (not in character). But that is my stance correct.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Btw @Antvasima do you think this picture of Unsealed Ajimu looks better than the current one? Since it's colored and rendered we could swap it.

 

[Antvasima]

I am personally fine with using "possibly" for Encounter, and Kakegae's note seems fine as well.

The currently used image of unsealed Najimi looks great, but we need a better image for her sealed incarnation, or at least a cropped version of the current one.

 

[Agnaa]

Tri-weekly bump.

 

[Antvasima]

What is left to do here?

 

[Agnaa]

DT and Earl to collaborate on how the wording for Encounter & Metonymy should be changed.

 

[Antvasima]

DT and Earl to collaborate on how the wording for Encounter & Metonymy should be changed.

Okay.

@DontTalkDT @Firephoenixearl

Would you be willing to comment here please?

 

[DontTalkDT]

Sorry, kinda forgot this was still going.

Resistable? You mean "could be resisted through causality manip" kind of stuff?

And where do you think this list should be on the P&A or in the notes section? In the P&A i guess i could do sth like this:

"Possibly Durability Negation via Causality Manipulation"

Btw what conclusion did we reach on the defensive part of Encounter (the healing or rejection part)? That too a "possibly"?

As Agnaa suggested I would not include the causality manip part, but just explain in a note that the mechanism is very unclear and hence it could potentially be resisted by various things. Then name a bunch of resistances those might be (causality manip, reality warping, damage reflection, matter manipulation etc.)

Listing Healing or regen as part of encounter is fine, but as debated we assume a limit for it and said limit should be mentioned on the page. I think we agreed on Low-Mid (?), so it would be something like "Regeneration (At least Low-Mid; via Encounter)".

I think my suggestion regarding Metonymy was already mentioned?

 

[Agnaa]

Yeah, Earl needed to provide any suggested changes to your Metonymy suggestion, and you only had to provide any suggested changes to Earl's Encounter suggestion.

 

[Antvasima]

Is Earl still commenting in this forum? He still seems to be visiting at times, but I think that he mentioned something about leaving.

If he is not active in this thread anymore, I think that the two of you can decide what seems most appropriate to apply.

 

[Agnaa]

Oh, uh, I'll try contacting him off-site then. If not, Ion held a similar view, and might be able to help write in Earl's place.

 

[Agnaa]

Earl doesn't really care about the wording for Encounter, as long as the possibility of it being higher is included. It should ideally look neat to read without being too vague or redundantly descriptive.

For the wording on Kakegae's note, here's the one DT wrote:

She has never demonstrated combining Eight Hundred Lies and Metonymy in any on-screen parts of her battles. The fact that her clones produced by Eight Hundred Lies can use the style themself might suggest that they are able to use her styles, though. The secondary clones have not demonstrated this ability.

Earl is iffy about the last line, and would suggest this addition:

She has never demonstrated combining Eight Hundred Lies and Metonymy in any on-screen parts of her battles. The fact that her clones produced by Eight Hundred Lies can use the style themself might suggest that they are able to use her styles, though. The secondary clones have not demonstrated this ability, so it is possible they aren't capable of using either style.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Is that fine with you DontTalk?

 

[DontTalkDT]

Seems fine to me

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. We seem to have reached an agreement then.

 

[Agnaa]

I'll add it to Kakegae's page. Now we've just got Gagamaru's note.

As Agnaa suggested I would not include the causality manip part, but just explain in a note that the mechanism is very unclear and hence it could potentially be resisted by various things. Then name a bunch of resistances those might be (causality manip, reality warping, damage reflection, matter manipulation etc.)

Would this be something like:

If Encounter is taken to negate durability, the mechanism by which it does so is unknown, meaning that it could be nullified by a variety of Resistances, such as Causality Manipulation, Reality Warping, Damage Reflection, Matter Manipulation, and possibly more.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Yeah, sounds good.

 

[Agnaa]

Hm, so can that completely replace the old note?

And there should probably be a justification for Regeneration that kinda covers the bases of the old note. Something like "Capable of passively healing a flurry of City Block level attacks performed at the speed of light"?

I also think the "Unknown" in Gagamaru's dura should have its justification changed from "Will always push away all damage inflicted on him" to "Since Encounter hasn't demonstrated limits or exceptions, it's unknown how strong of an attack it can push away."

 

[DontTalkDT]

I guess with the new formulations there hopefully will be no need to point out NLF anymore, so I think the note can be completely replaced, yes.

For the regeneration that makes sense. Although, it should probably also explain why we assume that amount of damage if we add an explanation. Otherwise, people will wonder why we assume Low-Mid for that reason. So maybe "Capable of passively healing a flurry of City Block level attacks performed at the speed of light, which were supposed to 'instantly' kill him according to the attacker."
Or if you wish to go even more into detail/be even more correct that's fine as well.

The change to the dura thing sounds good.

 

[Agnaa]

Alright, that's all the changes. Looks like this thread can finally be closed. Thanks a ton for the help.