Nocturne vs Iihiko (4-0, 3 more votes)

[Rocker1189]

That's not how recognition works lol

Then how does it work? because literally no one has been able to give an explanation.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

What mind manipulation power do they have? And on what level is it?

Right and I would ask again is alibi block her only time travel ability?

Quite a few, Weighted Words for one. Medaka Box mind hax don't work on that metric

No, Pachi posted another

 

[Rocker1189]

Quite a few, Weighted Words for one. Medaka Box mind hax don't work on that metric

No, Pachi posted another

I would check up weighted words. Well that is how it works on the wiki.

He only posted one.

 

[Rocker1189]

weighted words works by electrical signals, so not proper mind hax.

 

[PaChi2]

Mental Skills


Boneless Farm (Õïòþë®Òü«ÒüäÒü¬ÒüäÞ¥▓Õá┤, Bonresu F─ümu): Remove bones skill.[128]

I'm Crime (ÒüìÒü┐Òü¿þ¢░, Aimu Kuraimu): Make your opponent think they committed crimes skill.[128]

Ocean De'Javu (ÞªïÞªÜÒüêÒüîÒüéÒéïµÁÀ, ōshan Dejavyü): De'javu skill.[128]

Different Talent (õ╗ûÚçìõ║║µá╝, Difarento Tarento): Pretend you're someone else skill.[128]

Super Whisper (Òü▓ÒüØÒü▓ÒüØÞ®▒, Süp─ü Wisup─ü): Make them begin to hear insults skill.[128]

Pray Have Hope (þÁµ£øÒüïÒéëÞç│Òéïþùà, Pure Habu Hōpu): Despair skill.[128]

Lovely Hate (µäøÕ«╣ÒéîÒü¬Òüä, Rabur─½ Heito): Love skill.[128]

Tracking (ÕÇïõ║║þÜäÕñûÕéÀ, Torakkingu): Create false trauma skill.[128]

Limit Over (õ║║ÚûôÒéäÒéîÒü░ÒüºÒüìÒüúÒü▒Òü¬Òüù, Rimitto ōb─ü): Inertia skill.[128]Nisio Isin joked that this skill's name was already over the limit.[129]

Dream Ghost (Õ╣¢Ú£èÞªûþ£╝, Dor─½mu Gōsuto): Ghost seeing skill.[128]

Candle Service (ÞØïÚØóÕéàÞ¼Ø, Kyandoru S─übisu): Extort apologies skill.[128]

Paper Driver (þäíÞç¬ÕÀ▓þäíþé║þè», Pēp─ü Doraib─ü): Leave your body behind skill.[128]

Body Blast (õ©ìµ║ǵ¡╗õ¢ô, Bodi Burasuto): Unhappiness skill.[128]

Cyclotrombe l'oeil (Þú©ÞÂ│Òü«Ú¿ÖÒüùþÁÁ, Saikurotoronburuiyu): Swindle skill.[128]

Friendly Neighbor Green (ÚÜúÒü«ÞèØÒü¬ÒüìÒüúÒüªµ£¼Õ¢ôÒü½ÚØÆÒüä, Furendor─½ Neib─ü Gur─½n): Jealousy skill.[128]

Cross Freulein (ÕÑ¢Õ¡ÉÕ¼ó, Kurosu Furorain): Charm skill.[128]

Seven Doubt (õ©âÕ║ªÕ░ïÒü¡Òüªõ║║ÒéÆõ┐íÒüÿÒéì, Sebun Dauto): Doubt skill.[128]

Name Kate The Machinegun (þ£áµ░ùÒüûÒü¥Òüù, Nēmu Keito Za Mashingan): Hypnosis skill.[128]

Triple Terrible (µüÉÒéïÒü╣ÒüìÕñºõ║║Úüö, Toripuru Teriburu): Fear skill.[128]

Past Promise (µÇØÒüäÚüòÒüä, Pasuto Puromisu): Fabricate a memory skill.[128]

Leading Right (ÕÅ│µëïÒéÆÒüöÞªºÒüÅÒüáÒüòÒüä, R─½dingu Raito): Leading guide skill.[128]

Because Problem (µé®Òü¥ÒüùÒüäÞ║½õ¢ô, Bikōzu Puroburemu): Push worries upon others skill.[128]

General Propaganda (þäíþƒÑÒü½Þ¿┤ÒüêÒéïÞ½ûÞ¿╝, Jeneraru Puropaganda): Persuasion skill.[128]

Very Hungry (Þà╣õ©ÇÕîü, Ber─½ Hangur─½): Feeling of hunger skill.[128]

Crystal Edge (Õ½îÕë▓ÞÇà, Kurisutaru Ejji): Become hated by everyone skill.[128]

Death Smile (þì▓Úíö, Desu Sumairu): Really fake smile skill.[128]

Excuse Love (µâàÕ½îÒüñÒüìÒü«µäø, Ekusukyüzu Rabu): Flattery skill.[128]

Barter Butterfly (þØǵäŵ░┤µ││, B─üt─ü Batafurai): Indulgence skill.[128]

Own Goal (Þ笵«║Õà©, Oun Gōru): Instigate suicide skill.[128]

Old Cold Whip (ÞÇüõ¢ôÒü½þäíþƒÑµëôÒüñ, ōrudo Kōrudo Wippu): Deprive of knowledge skill.[128]

Qualia Quality (µâ│õ¢£Òü«Þ│¬, Kuoria Kuoriti): Make consciousness nonexistent skill.[128]

Humachine Error (µÇØÞÇâÕü£µ¡óµÇºÕòÅÚíî, Hyümashin Er─ü): Unable to think skill.[128]

Placebo Process (Õü¢Þû¼õ¢ô, Purash─½bo Purosesu): Disagreement skill.[128]

Double Mind (ÚÇíÕÀíÒü«µé▓Ú│┤, Daburu Maindo): Can't escape from being lost skill.[128]

Arrow Blow (Õàìþ¢¬õ║ïµï│, Arō Burō): Acquittal skill.[128]

Trust Best (õ╗èµùÑÒü»Þ¬┐Õ¡ÉÒüîµé¬Òüä, Torasuto Besuto): Believe you had a golden age skill.[128] It is noted that even without this skill, people are liable to do this anyway.[130]

Life Game Pressure (Ú½ÿÚüÄÒüÄÒéïµ£ƒÕ¥àÕÇñÚçìÚüÄÒüÄÒéïõ║║þöƒ, Raifu Gēmu Puressh─ü): Great pressure skill.[128]

Cold Chain (þÑ×þÁîÚÄû, Kōrudo Chēn): Addiction skill.[128]

Gate Out (ÕÅúÕñûõ©ìÕç║, Gēto Auto): Spread others' secrets skill.[128]

About Dark (µÜùÚ╗ÆÕû░ÒéëÒüä, Abauto D─üku): Pessimism skill.[128] It is noted that the cool name of this skill contrasts with its contents.[131]

Impossible Repeater (ÕÅèÒü╝Òü¼µüïÒü«µ╗ØþÖ╗Òéè, Inposshiburu Rip─½t─ü): Give up stealing skill.[128]

Homesick House (þ½ÂÒüåµ£¼Þâ¢, Hōmushikku Hausu): Crush fighting spirit skill.[128]

Heart Disk Crush (Õ┐âÒü«µ│ÑÚàö, H─üto Disukurasshu): Crazy admirer skill.[128]

Hostibility Zombie (µ¡╗Òü¼Òü╗Òü®Õ┐½Úü®, Hosutabiriti Zonbi): Spoil others skill.[128]

Death Tear Friend (µÂÖÒü¬ÒüùÒüºÒü»µ«║ÒüøÒü¬Òüä, Desu Tia Furendo): Tear up skill.[128]

Resistance Age (þè»Þíîµ£ƒ, Rejisutansu Eiji): Make others want to betray people skill.[128]

Killer Be Quiet (µ▓êÚ╗ÖÒü»þªüÚøäÕ╝üÒü»Õ┐ì, Kir─ü B─½ Kuwaietto): Make words nonexistent skill.[128]

Dislike (µäøÚÇåÞ╗ó, Disuraiku): Hate what you like skill.[128] This skill is noted to be "too much of a demon", likely because of its cruel nature.[132]

Nearly Insomnia (õ©ÇþØíþ£áõ©ìÞÂ│, Niar─½ Insomunia): Become unable to sleep skill.[128]

Propagation (Õ░éÚûÇÕ«ÂÒü«ÕåùÞ½ç, Puropogēshon): Provocation skill.[128]

Hit Man's Identity (Òü®ÒüåÒüùÒüªõ║║ÒéƵ«║ÒüùÒüªÒü»ÒüäÒüæÒü¬ÒüäÒü«, Hitto Manzu Aidentiti): Killing intent skill.[128]

Niche Leading (µäÅÕæ│µÀ▒Þ¬¡Òü┐, Nicchi R─½dingu): Suspicion skill.[128]

Feeling Mixer (ÕôÇÕû£µÑ¢µÇÆ, F─½ringu Mikis─ü): Feelings reversal skill.[128]

Lonely Wedding Party (µ¡╗Òü¼Òü¿ÒüìÒü»õ©Çõ║║, þöƒÒüìÒéïÒü¿ÒüìÒééõ©Çõ║║, Ronr─½ Uedingu P─üt─½): Loneliness skill.[128]

Antique (õ║║ÚûôÞƒ╗, Ant─½ku): Crawling sensation skill.[128]

Custom Nine (µé¬þÖûõ╣ØÕ╣┤, Kasutamu Nain): Grant a bad habit skill.[128]

Out Of Simulation (µâ│Õ«ÜÒü«ÞÂúÕæ│, Auto Obu Shumirēshon): Grant bad taste skill.[128]

Sense Of Wonderful (õ©ìÕÅ»µÇØÞ¡░µäƒ, Sensu Obu Wandafuru): Disturb every sense skill.[128]

Principle Capriccio (þïéÚ¿ÆÕăþÉåÒü«Þ¿ÿµåÂ, Purinshipuru Kapuricchio): Competition skill.[128]

Monkey Walk (þÁéþäëÒü«ÞÁÀµ║É, Monk─½ Wōku): Regression skill.[128]

Lunatic Manner (µé▓µâ¿ÒüôÒü«þñ╝, Runatikku Man─ü): Force good manners skill.[128]

Nothing Sisters (þäíÒüäÒüîµäÅÞªïÒü«µÀ╗ÕºëÕª╣, Nasshingu Shisut─üzu): Debauchery skill.[128]

Witches Animal Forces (Ú¡öÕÑ│Òü«µ░┤µÖÂõ¢ô, Wicch─½zu Animaru Fōshizu): Abnormal field of vision skill.[128]

Six To One (µëìÞâ¢Òü«þø«, Shikkusu Tou Wan): Low intelligence skill.[128]

Mind Broken (ÕúèÒüäÒééÒü«þƒÑÒéëÒüÜ, Maindo Burōkun): Profanity skill.[128]

Pygmalion (Þ▒Üõ║║Õ¢ó, Piggumarion): Turn into doll skill.[128]

Midnight Neurosis (Þâ©ÒéÆþ®┐Òüñþùà, Middonaito Noirōze): Curse skill.[128]

Suspect Neuron (Þ┐ÀÞÁ░õ┐íþÁî, Sasupekuto Nyüron): Superstition skill.[128]

Modern Phobia (Õàêþ½»µüɵÇûþùç, Modan Fobia): Bad cultural practice skill.[128]

Nonsense Dictionary (Òü¬ÒüäµäÅÕæ│ÒüºµäÅÕæ│ÒüîÒü¬Òüä, Nansensu Dikushonar─½): Nonsense skill.[128]

In No Chest (Þâ©õ©¡þäíÕ┐Á, In Nō Chesuto): Regret skill.[128]

Building Consensus Block (ÕøøÞºÆÒüäµäÅÞ¡ÿÒéÆõ©©Òüŵ¼áÒüÅ, Birudingu Konsensasu Burokku): Corruption skill.[128]

Stakeholder (Õê®Õ«│ÚéäÕàâÞÇà, Sutēkuhorud─ü): Interest skill.[128]

Ultimate Narcissism (þø«Òü½ÕàÑÒéîÒüƒÒüä, Arutimetto Narushishizumu): Narcissism skill.[128]

One Of Them (Úü©Òü░ÒéîÒüùþºü, Wan Obu Zemu): Get cocky skill.[128]

Heart Lung (Õ┐âÚàìµ®ƒÞâ¢, H─üto Rangu): Anxiety skill.[128]

Shining Shining (þÖ¢µùÑÒü«õ©ïÒü½Õæ¿þƒÑÒü«õ║ïÕ«ƒ, Shainingu Shainingu): Everything is embarrassing skill.[128]

Dry Child (աɵ׻ÒéëÒüù, Dorai Chairudo): Dry up skill.[128]

Anti Success (Õ©¡ÒéÆÞ╣┤ÒéïÒüîõ¥íÕÇñ, Anchi Sakusesu): Success avoidance skill.[128]

Sinking Time (µÖéÕè╣Õ½îµé¬, Shinkingu Taimu): Disgust skill.[128]

Paranoiza (ÕüŵäøÕ╣▓µ©ë, Paranoiz─ü): Forced fetish skill.[128]

Runaway Three Six (õ©ëÕìüÕà¡þø«µòú, Rannawei Sur─½ Shikkusu): Fleeing skill.[128]

Angry Umbrella (µÇÆÒéèÕ┐âÚá¡Òü½þÖ║ÒüùÒü¬Òüä, Angur─½ Anburera): Unable to get angry skill.[128]

Self Protector (õ┐ØÞ║½µ╝öµèÇ, Serufu Purotekut─ü): "I am cute" skill.[128] It is noted that, depending on the opponent, there may not be a need to use this skill.[133]

Focus Anxiety (þá┤Úíöõ©Çþäª, Fōkasu Anguzaiati): Impatience skill.[128]

Peek-A-Boo (µø▓ÒüîÒéïÚ¬¿Òü½Òü»µø▓ÒüîÒéïÞéëÒüéÒéè, P─½k─übu): Misinterpretation skill.[128]

Wonderful Frog Make Little (µäÅÒü«Òü¥Òü¥Òü«ÞøÖÕñºµÁÀÒéÆþƒÑÒéèÕ░¢ÒüÅÒüÖ, Wandafuru Furoggu Meiku Ritoru): Look down on skill.[128]

Spell Checker (µûçÕ¡ùÚÇÜÒéèÒü«õ║║µûçÕ¡ù, Superu Chekk─ü): Dyslexia skill.[128]

Sorry Destroy (µëïµåɵëïþáò, Sōr─½ Desutoroi): Sugar coating skill.[128]

Painting Blood (ÞéØÞä│ÞíÇÒü½ÕíùÒéï, Peintingu Buraddo): Sense of defeat skill.[128]

Rabid Fox (ÚÇöµ¡╗Õ¡ñµ│ú, Rabbido Fokkusu): Forced empathy skill.[128]

Closed Clean Room (µ¢öþÖûþèÂÒü«ÕéÀµ»Æ, Kurōzudo Kur─½n Rümu): Fastidiousness skill.[128]

Morphing Blame (Õà▒µ£ëþ¢¬þöú, Mōfingu Bureimu): Joint liability skill.[128]

This Cool Beauty (þ¥ÄÒüùÒüÅÒü¬ÒüäÞ¿ÇÞ¬¼, Disu Küru Byüt─½): Disturbance skill.[128]

Don't You Trust Me (ÒüéÒü¬ÒüƒÒü»þÑ×þÁîÒéÆõ┐íÒüÿÒü¥ÒüÖÒüï?, Donto Yü Torasuto M─½): Religious faith skill.[128]

Hard Symbol (þÀ®ÒüòÒü¬ÒüäµØƒþ©ø, H─üdo Shinbaru): Intolerance skill.[128]

Low Pride Speech (ÕƒâÒü¥Òü┐ÒéîÒü«õ¥øÞ┐░, Rō Puraido Sup─½chi): Pride skill.[128]

Set Years Freestyle (Õ▒àÒüªÒééþ½ïÒüúÒüªÒééÒüäÒü¬ÒüÅÒüªÒééÕÉîÒüÿ, Setto Iy─üzu Fur─½sutairu): Disappearance skill.[128]

Hystericord (Õèúþ¡ëþ│©, Hisuter─½kōdo): Complex skill.[128]

You May Be (ÒüØÒü«Òü¥Òü¥Òü«ÒüìÒü┐ÒüîÕÑ¢Òüì, Yü Mei B─½): Mere consolation skill.[128] This skill is noted for having a sarcastic name, as the kanji means "I like you the way you are".[134

 

[Rocker1189]

And he resisted all of these? also how many people have they affected(also a lot of these are not mind hax).

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

@Rocker I mean, if you draw on that more people = more powerful, then no. However, Even those who can deal with the passive mind wiping effected of weighted words still get controlled by the direct control. Ajimu has a ton of mental abilities as well. All mind hax in Medaka Box work just on electrical signals, because it is an almost entirely materialistic verse

Does the quantity matter? No. He posted one plus the already existent one. There is also the skill that controls the past.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

And he resisted all of these? also how many people have they affected(also a lot of these are not mind hax).

Medaka Box does not work on the metric of more people = more powerful

 

[Rocker1189]

I mean, if you draw on that more people = more powerful, then no. However, Even those who can deal with the passive mind wiping effected of weighted words still get controlled by the direct control. Ajimu has a ton of mental abilities as well.
Does the quantity matter? No. He posted one plus the already existent one. There is also the skill that controls the past.

And eternum nocturne's is on the level of every sentient creature in the past, present and future of the planet (this is more than just humans and animals, also includes other non-human races and such) that can have nightmares. So massively above everything shown in medaka box.

The point was that one skill could be used in many ways with no evidence that she time traveled with it.

 

[Rocker1189]

Medaka Box does not work on the metric of more people = more powerful

Well that sucks for medaka box then unless it scales from stuff that affect more people.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Well that sucks for medaka box then unless it scales from stuff that affect more people.

Nope, saying something effects more people means nothing

 

[PaChi2]

"Five thousand years ago, Iihiko Shishime became the first man Ajimu could not win against. In trying to attain a certain goal, Ajimu fought and lost against Iihiko at least one hundred million times, despite using all her skills and being aided by other Not Equals she had created."

 

[Rocker1189]

Nope, saying something effects more people means nothing

Unfotunately it does on the wiki. Its how we scale mind hax and stuff like that. If he has not resisted mind hax on nocturne's level then he can not ressit it.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

And eternum nocturne's is on the level of every sentient creature in the past, present and future of the planet (this is more than just humans and animals, also includes other non-human races and such) that can have nightmares. So massively above everything shown in medaka box.

The point was that one skill could be used in many ways with no evidence that she time traveled with it.

Is it 4D then, because that means something? Medaka Box doesn't work on the metric of more = more effective.

She has the ability that has her use all her abilities in the most effective way, so if she didn't use it to time travel then she used it in a way that would have worked even better, and it still didn't work.

 

[PaChi2]

Unfotunately it does on the wiki. Its how we scale mind hax and stuff like that.

When the mechanism through which the resistance is gained ignores certain aspects, sheer potency does not matter. You wont force recognition with a stronger skill. Otherwise Medaka could have done it during their first encounter because she is > all style users. But nope

 

[Rocker1189]

Is it 4D then, because that means something? Medaka Box doesn't work on the metric of more = more effective.

She has the ability that has her use all her abilities in the most effective way, so if she didn't use it to time travel then she used it in a way that would have worked even better, and it still didn't work.

the wiki does though. And again without him resisting actual mind hax and not weighted words (somthing that works with electrical signals) I dont believe it would work.

Another NLF ability lol.

 

[Rocker1189]

When the mechanism through which the resistance is gained ignores certain aspects, sheer potency does not matter. You wont force recognition with a stronger skill. Otherwise Medaka could have done it during their first encounter because she is > all style users. But nope

When said mechianics require the mind then yeah and apparently he got defeated by being hit from behind with a simply very powerful attack. Unless this is some kind of yhwach situation. Or it just means that he resists stuff on her level none of her mind hax is on nocturne's level.

 

[Rocker1189]

Or if he really needs to be asleep, nocturne could just travel forwards in time when iihiko is asleep and just nightmare him right there.

 

[PaChi2]

Iihiko resisted a hypnosis skill. Just saying. And an "unable to think" skill.

Just saying.

 

[Rocker1189]

Iihiko resisted a hypnosis skill. Just saying. And an "unable to think" skill.
Just saying.

great and how many people could those affect? Just asking.

 

[PaChi2]

He resisted those by the same mechanism he resists everything.

Dood, you are trying to argue that the mindhax potency matters, when it doesnt. Same way that sheer AP wont matter against an intangible opponent.

"Abilities dont reach him"

Its all a matter of quality, not quantity.

 

[Rocker1189]

That's cool I already gave the time travel till when he is asleep argenuebt he knows he is sleeping so he would recognise a nightmare he simply won't know that this nightmare would mind hax him.

Also has he resisted possession?

 

[PaChi2]

Trying to possess Iihiko may turn Nocturne into Iihiko.

 

[PaChi2]

That's cool I already gave the time travel till when he is asleep argenuebt he knows he is sleeping so he would recognise a nightmare he simply won't know that this nightmare would mind hax him.

Also has he resisted possession?

Aint that self-BFR?

 

[GLHF22]

Here the thread related to alibi block, https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2641388?useskin=oasis

Just want to put this here

 

[Rocker1189]

Trying to possess Iihiko may turn Nocturne into Iihiko.

No no it won't his possession is on the same level as his mindhax. Which is massively above Iihiko's

It's not self BFR if it leads to win.

 

[PaChi2]

No no it won't his possession is on the same level as his mindhax. Which is massively above Iihiko's

It's not self BFR if it leads to win.

You sre mindhaxing another iihiko and not the one you are fighting. Self bfr.

 

[RM97]

Trying to possess Iihiko may turn Nocturne into Iihiko.

I dont remember any such thing happening in MB tbh but refresh my memory on that

 

[PaChi2]

Iihiko isnt a soul. He is a legend.

 

[Rocker1189]

You sre mindhaxing another iihiko and not the one you are fighting. Self bfr.

No.. it is the same Iihiko... just later on in time. and it needs to be beyond a week to be self bfr.

Or he mind haxes sleeping Iihiko in the past, this would affect the present one.

 

[PaChi2]

Well, I bid you farewell. Im unfollowing.

 

[Rocker1189]

guess that argument is conceded...

 

[PaChi2]

guess that argument is conceded...

Im simply tired of this discussion. Nothing else.

 

[Rocker1189]

Im simply tired of this discussion. Nothing else.

course.

 

[PaChi2]

Tfw now I remember that guy from the bleach thread that accused me of bias when I was the OP. Rofl.

 

[Rocker1189]

Tfw now I remember that guy from the bleach thread that accused me of bias when I was the OP. Rofl.

??

 

[PaChi2]

Here.

Just something I remembered after realizing that you are the OP here lol

 

[Rocker1189]

I mean I never thought the OP could not argue and I have seen most threads have the OP argue for a character they think wins.

 

[Rocker1189]

Also its Gilga(tbh I skimmed so maybe its not him who said it). He calls everyone under the sun that even bothers to question Bleach biased against Bleach.

 

[PaChi2]

Might as well ask you that if you think Nocturne wins why did you create this in the first place aside from wanting to give Nocturne an easy win. Because even if you disagree with the opposing arguments, you literally only counted votes for Nocturne.