Natsu Flames of Wild Emotion

[Captain_Torch]

Did everybody conveniently forget that Natsu's attack was so hot and powerful, that it burned his own arm to a crisp, DESPITE him having huge fire resistance?

The thing is, whatever that "form" is, it's canon. He

>Defeated someone he couldn't defeat normally in base

>Zeref himself noted that Natsu was using different flames/power

>Natsu's attack had consequences on his own arm

>After getting "revived" he tanked attacks from White Zeref, despite getting one shotted earlier


The thing is, he blatantly got stronger after he got revived. Ignoring this and just saying PIS is simply bias.

 

[Blanked]

It's not a form! It's his usual flames and Zeref simple called them "flames of his wild emotions" because Natsu was angry and all. Burning himself is his own power nullification that nullified his resistance on flames as he was loosing control from getting mad. Proof is the fact he didn't burn himself in battle against Acnologia and we all know his power there must of been massively superior than in battle with Zeref, but in this case he controlled his powers and thus nothing happened. Same goes for when he used Igneel's powers.

PIS exists for that very reason and has nothing to do with bias which is a lame excuse. Accusing someone of bias because they disagree with you is not making you look good.

Natsu wasn't revived as he never died he was healed or rather the damage was reverted because Lucy rewrote the book to how it was before Natsu got damaged(pierced through his chest). And Natsu didn't get stronger after it ethier.

Also, because how did Natsu get one shotted? Did you bother looking? He drained all of his energy and couldn't defend anymore and that's it, he didn't fight Zeref so that argument falls down as well. That said he should of get one shotted from the very beginning of the battle considering the immense diffrence between Zeref and him. So basically that battle was pis from the moment it started.

I am not gonna discuss this further. I am absolutely and utterly against it and that's it.

If you need more opinions ask @Aiden,@Reppuzan and @Dragonmaster that essentially had to do with FT in past. If you know other as well call them. (I would say scarlet as well, but he is not active currently)

 

[Reppuzan]

I'm not 100% sure how to deal with this.

On one hand, it just looks like one of Natsu's typical emotion boosts given that it was established early on that he can only showcase his full power if he's emotionally charged.

On the other hand, the ending of Fairy Tail reeks of PIS.

 

[Blanked]

He can indeed become more powerful, but saying he became more powerful than in his dragon force or with Igneel's power where he was also emotionally charged in all of those cases is funny.

 

[Captain_Torch]

The whole ending of FT was "funny".

I'm not calling people bias for disagreeing with me. I'm saying that ignoring canon material is bias. Read through the lines.

Also, nice head canon with your "power nullification" theory. Too bad there is no proof it happened. That moment was so badly handled, that we still can't really say what happened. Maybe it wasn't his form, but it was still a boost. Was it temporary? Nobody knows or will know. But the fact is that after he got "boosted with his emotion" he started tanking attacks from White Zeref and actually damaging him. And he finished him with such a strong attack, that it burned his own hand. Saying that he nullified his own fire resistance is a huuuge stretch.

 

[Blanked]

Natsu has power nullification? Yes. Did he lose control/got bloodlusted? Yes. Is it the only logical explanation? Yes. Is the only logical explanation because Natsu has reached greater power than agaisnt Zeref and he still didn't cause the same burns? Yes.

So call it a head canon but it's more legit than anything you said.

I am not ignoring canon material i am saying its PIS and you are saying i am biased so yes you are accusing me because i disagree with you on that being PIS or not.

Power nulification can indeed nullify ones resistance(called power nullification for a reason) so it's not a stretch its logic.

He was boosted by his emotions in every fight with Zeref and yet results where completely different.

Boosted with his emotions plus the power of Igneel's wasn't enough to beat base Zeref while the dude didn't even counter Natsu's attack but only stood there.

And now you want to tell me Natsu being boosted with same emotions without Igneel's power can one shot a more powerful Zeref who also counter attacked?

You see that is bias since you like to use that as argument.

And just to leave this as my last reply.

I disagree on any upgrade because everything about that battle is PIS from beggining to end and there is ton of proofs for that.

 

[Captain_Torch]

I don't feel like arguing with you, since we both obviously will remain with our own opinions. So I'll just answer your reply, and we can move on.

"Natsu has power nullification? Yes. Did he lose control/got bloodlusted? Yes. Is it the only logical explanation? Yes. Is the only logical explanation because Natsu has reached greater power than agaisnt Zeref and he still didn't cause the same burns? Yes."

Still a head canon though. NOTHING implied power nullification, and power nullification shouldn't nullify his own fire resistance. Nothing implies that as well. Natsu's power nullification never nullfied his natural abilties. We have seen his power nullification burning through magic, but never did it burn through a natural ability that all dragon slayers have. That's a huuge stretch.

So I can agree on some of your points, but the "Is it the only logical explanation" is wrong, cause it makes less sense in that context than a random powerup, even if it would probably be a better idea than what Hiro did.

I didn't even call you bias, I just stated that ignoring this and just saying PIS is simply bias. And I still stand by that statement, since we have canon material which some people decide to discard because idk why really. Probably because the moment was so BS that accepting that it isn't PIS rubs the salt into the wound.

Also, I never said that this powerup makes sense. It really doesn't. It's one of the worst things Hiro ever did since it ****** up the powerscaling, made NO SENSE and came out of nowhere. But it happened, so I think we cannot ignore it.

 

[MaBoiAcnologia]

@Acnologia "most" Japanese fans were complaining and those count far more than any others as they have the "power" to vote on magazines pools where FT is published.
And again i already said it myself that Natsu won cause he burned fairy heart(tho it's more a theory that anything else), but if that is true than he didn't get upgraded simply because with power nullification he doesn't have to be as strong as Zeref to burn his magic.

For the other battles the only true pis is battle with Acnologia, but he did get a power up and he does have that on the profile cause it has sense.

In this battle only his power nullification can have more or less sense, but him beating Zeref through AP doesn't have sense and that's it.

Against Ajeel he didn't power up he simply burned his sand which is normal.

Agaisnt Laxus he "won" cause Laxus wasted his energy on Fairy Law. And because Gajeel saved him in the last minute.

And "Most" japanese fans wanted deaths for character development, why do you think there was a huge uproar when Makarov came back to life and didnt die?

Oh no I agree, he only won because he was able to burn Fairy Heart, which albeit is impressive since both Mavis and Zeref multiple times mention its an infinite amount of magic. But he only won due to his ability to burn the magic I agree.

PIS isnt really strong with Acno, its was just bullshit, and since the entirety of FT is bullshit, henceforth impressive he was able to survive a beating from him from Acno.

Yea but why didnt he do that before? Ajeels sand was a difficulty to handle for Gray Erza Lucy Wendy and Natsu to deal, and then Natsu simplys steps up and burns away his strongest attack (stated by Ajeel)? its PIS

And no, if you remember Fairy Law doesnt work on magic consumption rather life consumption, which is the explanation Mavis gave for Makarovs death. Furthermore, Laxus didnt affect anybody with Fairy Law, meaning nothing happened to him. Again PIS, see what I mean?

 

[MaBoiAcnologia]

@Acnologia that doesn't make any sense. Just because the asspull victories are consistent throughout the arc doesn't mean it's not PIS at all. It just means the characters can win every fight in the stupidest ways possible.

No it must mean it is PIS because PIS is the "consistent" in every arc of FT. Like ffs Natsu was able to hurt MGT, although MGT said he cant be hurt by conventional means. Much like Dragons are only hurt by Dragon Slayer, pure Etherion Demons are hurt by Devil Slayer. And Natsu hurts him with HFF? Like come on the entirety of FT its bullshit which is the constant. It cant be called bullshit because Hiro uses it far too often it has become the norm.

 

[MaBoiAcnologia]

Did everybody conveniently forget that Natsu's attack was so hot and powerful, that it burned his own arm to a crisp, DESPITE him having huge fire resistance?
The thing is, whatever that "form" is, it's canon. He

>Defeated someone he couldn't defeat normally in base

>Zeref himself noted that Natsu was using different flames/power

>Natsu's attack had consequences on his own arm

>After getting "revived" he tanked attacks from White Zeref, despite getting one shotted earlier


The thing is, he blatantly got stronger after he got revived. Ignoring this and just saying PIS is simply bias.

You must forget that he had gone through multiple battles and lost his Dragon Seed, which would lead him to be weak. It is no surprise his arm was ****** after so many battles and the loss of his Dragon Seed.

 

[MaBoiAcnologia]

Now should this be a new form? No, we saw the same thing with Ajeel and he didnt burn his arm. The FT symbol lighting up doesnt not imply a powerup, this is just Hiro showing Natsu getting stronger out of no where. We see this time and time again, its consistent with Hiro and FT and shouldnt be taken as a power up. This is just another feat for Natsus flames, being able to burn an infinite source of energy to nothing and being able to burn the concept of time itself. Nothing more nothing less, it is base Natsus power which isnt that ridiculous considering FDKM was buttfucking Zeref. Although base Natsu isnt as strong as FDKM as many people would say, because Zeref didnt die.

 

[Theglassman12]

No it must mean it is PIS because PIS is the "consistent" in every arc of FT. Like ffs Natsu was able to hurt MGT, although MGT said he cant be hurt by conventional means. Much like Dragons are only hurt by Dragon Slayer, pure Etherion Demons are hurt by Devil Slayer. And Natsu hurts him with HFF? Like come on the entirety of FT its bullshit which is the constant. It cant be called bullshit because Hiro uses it far too often it has become the norm.

It doesn't matter how much the bullshit appear in Fairy Tail. It's still bullshit (AKA: PIS) regardless how you slice it.

 

[MaBoiAcnologia]

No it must mean it is PIS because PIS is the "consistent" in every arc of FT. Like ffs Natsu was able to hurt MGT, although MGT said he cant be hurt by conventional means. Much like Dragons are only hurt by Dragon Slayer, pure Etherion Demons are hurt by Devil Slayer. And Natsu hurts him with HFF? Like come on the entirety of FT its bullshit which is the constant. It cant be called bullshit because Hiro uses it far too often it has become the norm.

It doesn't matter how much the bullshit appear in Fairy Tail. It's still bullshit (AKA: PIS) regardless how you slice it.

Before I reply to you, please understand I agree with you. Bullshit is bullshit, but when the entire manga is based around bullshit wins, bullshit becomes normal. If we classify this feat as PIS, then we classify 90% of FT feats as PIS. Where do we draw a line as to how many times does an anime have to bullshit until it becomes the norm? Maybe you dont agree with me, but do you at least understand what I mean?

 

[Theglassman12]

If you agree with me, then why are you arguing that it should be a norm?

 

[MaBoiAcnologia]

If you agree with me, then why are you arguing that it should be a norm?

I agree with you that its bullshit, but I dont agree when you dont say its a norm. This is why PIS is used so commonly in comics and not anime, because comics have 60+ years of feats and just a couple are PIS, which is why it is thrown around so loosely. In FT, the amount of BS wins FT characters have (I mentioned some for Natsu, but Gray vs Rufus, Erza vs Azuma, I can keep on going) it should be considered a norm because it is Hiros writing style. So I agree with you that it is BS, but not that BECAUSE its BS it should be thrown aside, especially in FT.

 

[Theglassman12]

The difference between comics and anime is that one has so many different authors that their interpretation on how strong a character is will contradict the other's thoughts. With anime there's only one author writing the story, and before you say "That's how Hiro writes his stories", remember Rave masters? Because that's written by Hiro Mashima, and it has far less PIS moments than in Fairy Tail.

 

[MaBoiAcnologia]

@Theglassman12 Im sorry unless youre talking about Jeff Loeb no writer contradiction has caused PIS, because one writer doesnt believe Spiderman goes from being Tier 8-7 to Tier 3 (when he beat Firelord). Writer contradictions dont cause PIS, Rulk beating King Thor does, but thats just bad writing. You can even considering that Rulk as being Loeb Force Rulk, because of all his stupid high showings. Nobody calls Loebs Rulk a PIS machine because his showings were so consistently PIS, above even PIS. This is the same for Hiro, as he decided for FT to be like this. Rave Masters is written by him yes, but writing styles can differ between works, maybe he decided for Rave Masters to be one way and FT to be another, its still consistent PIS showings. They shouldnt be discarted because these showings have been so consistent, the entire anime and manga are based around these showings. By your logic just discart all of FT feats and put them in tier 10.

 

[Theglassman12]

Umm yes it does, you can go from Hulk soloing marvel to getting beaten up by a gorilla. When have I ever said that ALL of Fairy tail is PIS. I only said every fight after the timeskip.

 

[MaBoiAcnologia]

@Theglassman12 yea, but those are just low showings. I can with certainity say most of Hulks "PIS" showings from authors making him look weak are not PIS, rather bad writing because these low showings arent driven by plot. Theres a difference between stupid high or low showings being PIS or just showings because theyre not driven by plot, hence the name PLOT INDUCED Stupidity. You didnt, but youre saying as if every fight after timeskip is the first time its happened. Natsu and characters of FT have been doing this since the start of FT. You cant just come here and say its PIS because itll raise em up a tier if they have been doing it for the entire series and you just care to pay attention to the last arc. This has been going for a while and is nothing new to FT.

 

[Theglassman12]

How is claiming the entire series being PIS going to upgrade any of these characters?? It'll just downgrade them all if that's the case.

Also I know that the series has been filled with PIS, this thread is about the last arc, not the entirety of fairy tail.

 

[MaBoiAcnologia]

How is claiming the entire series being PIS going to upgrade any of these characters?? It'll just downgrade them all if that's the case.
Also I know that the series has been filled with PIS, this thread is about the last arc, not the entirety of fairy tail.

Im sorry but thats literally the point I made wasnt it? "By your logic just discart all of FT feats and put them in tier 10." I am not claiming the entire series is PIS, im just saying by your logic the entire series SHOULD be downgrade them.

If you know that the entire series is PIS why are you acting like this is only happening now? And just because this thread is about Alvarez, doesnt mean we should ignore the entirety of FT completely.

My point is, you cant discard this feat as PIS (which btw its not really PIS) because these kind of feats are a norm for all FT character in the entirety of FT. If we call this PIS, then all of FT is PIS and all characters should be brought to tier 10. Since that is not gonna happen, why are you insisting this feat is PIS?

 

[Theglassman12]

I am not claiming the entire series is PIS, im just saying by your logic the entire series SHOULD be downgrade them.

If you know that the entire series is PIS why are you acting like this is only happening now? And just because this thread is about Alvarez, doesnt mean we should ignore the entirety of FT completely.

My point is, you cant discard this feat as PIS (which btw its not really PIS) because these kind of feats are a norm for all FT character in the entirety of FT. If we call this PIS, then all of FT is PIS and all characters should be brought to tier 10. Since that is not gonna happen, why are you insisting this feat is PIS?

1.Stop putting words in my mouth, I only said that the final arc in fairy tail is where the most PIS comes in.

2. You literally just answered your own question.

3. This again? Seriously the more you throw this point over and over towards people without any logical proof, the more it becomes moot.

 

[MaBoiAcnologia]

@Theglassman12

I am not putting words in your mouth, in fact, I am saying what you are saying is wrong. You say the final arc in FT is where most PIS comes in, and im saying youre ignoring the rest of the anime when u discredit this feat by saying its PIS.

Wdym this again? You havent countered it, youve just been ignoring it frankly. And without any logical proof? Ive already given 7 fights as my proof, im starting to believe you have not been reading my comments ._.

 

[MaBoiAcnologia]

Also, sorry for saying what you are saying is wrong, I meant to say counterable. Not wrong, makes me seem arrogant haha

 

[Theglassman12]

For the last time, this thread is about the Alvarez arc, not the entirety of fairy tail.

 

[MaBoiAcnologia]

@Theglassman12 I get that, but for the last time, calling this feat PIS is not a valid counter for the reasons mentioned above.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

These are clearly two different kinds of glows, plus Natsu even gave a chant to his power saying things like "This is our strongest power" and while that can just be said as more Fairy tail BS it was described to be a different kind of flame by Zeref himself, the same man who created Eclipse, the R System and new instantly how to give Irene a human form, something she couldn't do in 400 years, so I believe Flames of Wild Emotion is a different form, and I believe it should be counted as such.
However you could also discount this and make Base Natsu High 6-C which makes much less sense, but since all of Fairy Tail is BS I guess that works too.

 

[MaBoiAcnologia]

Base Natsu should be High 6-B at least seeing his Dragon Cry feats, so I dont see how this is a powerup. Natsu only beat Zeref by burning away his power, he was no where near FDKM, which would have gotten Zeref killed. And while 2 different type of glows, it is still a glow that is persistent throughout FT. As for why his flames were different, again its Hiros style of writing.

 

[Reppuzan]

High 6-B is a big jump from High 6-C.

Where the heck does High 6-B come from?

 

[MaBoiAcnologia]

Animus and the fact he overpowered Dragon Cry Animus (Dragon Cry had the power to bust 9 countries, officialy 10 but the power to bust 1 country was released before the energy was assimilated, so natsu overpowered a dragon with an amp from a source that can destrot 9 countries.

 

[Reppuzan]

@MaBoi

Is there a timeframe for this? Because I find this statement sorely doubtful.

 

[Blanked]

1. The energy of Dragon cry was said to be superior to that of Etherion(ten times), but Etherion's destructive capacity is still superior to Dragon Cry. Just like Fairy heart is infinitely more powerful(contains more energy) than etherion and dragon cry, but it's destructive capacity is limited to its user.

2. No it was not used only on fiore for two reasons. One is the fact kingdom of Stella doesn't belong to fiore which means the said power is used on this kingdom as well.

Two because you can't affect the kingdom of fiore if you first don't reach kingdom of bosco which means this kingdom was affected at well. Another thing is the fact the dude literraly says that the entire continent has became a magical circle tho I will address that as mistake done by the author.

That said a minimum of 3 kingdoms was affected by Dragon Cry which needs who knows how long to destroy them because as said before its destructive capacity is not equivalent to the amout of magical energy.

@Reppuza that is the explanation I gave him on the order thread.

The main point is Dragon Cry's magical power is not equivalent to its destructive capacity as shown in the movie it self. We are not giving Zeref high 3-A simple because fairy heart is infinite power for the same reason.

 

[Blanked]

Also, fun fact if Erza's feat wasn't considered an outlier than Natsu vs Zeref would no longer be as much of PIS as it currently is. Actually it would even have sense.

edit: figures why would I...

 

[MaBoiAcnologia]

@Blanked what Erza feat?

 

[MaBoiAcnologia]

@Reppuzan this is the counter to the explanation he gave

Im sorry how, The King mentioned how Dragon Cry can destroy the continet (Etherion can only destroy a country) and it was stated to have the power of 10 Etherions, I dont see why Etherion> Dragon Cry. And when was it ever stated Fairy Heart is limited to the user? Its limited in power because as happy stated and Mavis agreed, it is an infinite fountain of magic, not an finite power. The power was used in the Kingdom because DC was there, but it was originally aimed at Fiore, also the Kingdom of Stella was only an island as shown in DC, barely a country, so thats a miniscule power reduction. And thats your head canon, and assumption, that it hit Bosco. The fact is we saw Dragon Cry hit Stella and Fiore, and Zash only intended to hit Fiore and those are the facts, not assumptions, but actual happenings. Everything else is assumption, even then if we consider Stella to be country thats still 8 countries worth of power Animus assimilated and Natsu overpowered.

And I saw you ask about Spectrum (I was talking to same staff member, Ant right) and you asked the wrong questions.The question at hand isnt Spectrums speed,but rather what she can do with her light. People are saying Stings light isnt light because its A.- Bendable B.- Destructive C.- Visible, all of which Spectrum has done (A.- she creates illusions by bending light B.- self explanatory C.- read a comic you can see her blasts). So if these are counters for Stings light not being light, then Spectrums light shouldnt be light, and henceforth she shouldnt be the speed mentioned in her thread and she shouldnt have light manipulation as one of her powers. (Also her "light speed feats" are because of multiple statements of her being able to control light, literally same as Sting)

And how does Sting not have any real proof of him using Real Light? Other than those 3 counters mentioned above, no one has fully countered Erza or Rogue statement (other than Dank and his translation which im trying to figure out now) or Slayers releasing their actual element, not to sound arrogant ofc, that is the last thing I want to do here.

 

[Blanked]

Don't bring Sting into this we have the other thread. And I underlined whether her light was real or not.

Dragon Cry as well is just a fountain of energy with enough energy to destroy the continent, but as shown its destructive capacity is limited as the dragon cry can't realease all of its energy at once.

All of those circles were spamming attacks that did very weak damage and that's not it Kingdom of Stella is only half of Fiore if you look at the actual map that island is just part of it so that still a country size.

Also the dude literraly used all of the power within Dragon cry as it was in fact stated by him so Animus did not assimilate power to destroy 8 countries at all he took the dragon cry to regain his powers and used the already activated circles to cause destruction over the continent.

I can argue this infinetly, but i have no need to.

Dragon Cry's power was divided into those circles (all of its power did) and it was causing damage which over time would estroy the continent and that's it.

Animus using that power doesn't give him any tier as magical power of Dragon Cry is not equal to its destructive capacity as shown in the movie itself.

Also, find a single wiki that will accept any of this head canon you created. Trust me you won't find one.

 

[Blanked]

I actually just remembered i am fighting agaisnt upgrades for FT... I am out of these discussions.

 

[ZERO7772]

Umm I can't keep up what is the main argument here ?

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Wow I disapear for an 2 hours and this happens

To counter MaBoiAcnologia's points earlier, FDKM Natsu was comparable to a Zeref who wasn't serious, and Natsu needs Dragon Force to Challenge a serious Zeref, then Zeref Gets Fairy Heart, and gets a huge power boost, he then "Dies" and comes back and suddenly his base form is equal to Zeref, No

He used a New Flame, a new power, and it wasn't his base, that makes no sense, and before people say well it's Fairy Tail it never makes sense, this NEW POWER would explain why Natsu could challenge FH Zeref

 

[Blanked]

Flames of wild emotions is not a new power. He used the same thing during the very freakin first arc and it was explained that's his flames are simply a physical manifestation of his emotions which we also later named rage power, but as said before its ridiculous to say his rage power boosted him to a greater lvl than he was with Igneel's power and his dragon force.

Also, i already told you he simple burned fairy heart damaging Zeref's soul and thus he won. Proof is the fact Zeref lost his white form and since this was done thx to his power null it's not an upgrade.