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Nasuverse: Servant Base Stats and Noble Phantasm Conclusion

SuperKamiNappa said:
Triple-Linked Crane Wings description/tier makes no sense "C Ranked Noble Phantasms, which are equivalent to A Ranked Noble Phantasm's"... um what?
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I looked into this and it turns out that originally it used to say "As a C-rank Noble Phantasm, they can produce A-rank attacks that took off one of Berserker's lives, and Shirou used it to cut through Saber Alter's armor and destroy her heart and lungs in Heaven's Feel". I supposed this is based on C Rank NPs being equal to A Rank regular attacks, which is supposedly stated in the Parameter Rules. I read it on the Parameter Rules page on the Type-Moon Wiki which says "Converting the numbers, Noble Phantasms of C Rank are the equivalent of an A+ or A Rank regular attack". However, since that part doesn't include a citation, it should be taken with a big grain of salt.
Anyways, the description stayed that way until an edit was made by DemonGodMitchAubin on November 13th 2020 which changed the description to the following: "C Ranked Anti-Unit Noble Phantasms, which are equivalent to A Ranked Anti-Unit Noble Phantasm's that took off one of Berserker's lives, and Shirou used it to cut through Saber Alter's Armor, as well as destroy her heart and lungs in Heaven's Feel". In a later edit the description was changed to what it is right now: "C Ranked Anti-Unit Noble Phantasms, which are equivalent to A Ranked Anti-Unit Noble Phantasm's".

@DemonGodMitchAubin Could you elaborate on why EMIYA's Triple-Linked Crane Wings are considered C Ranked Noble Phantasms equivalent to A Ranked Noble Phantasm's?
 
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Tsotso said:
@DemonGodMitchAubin Could you elaborate on why EMIYA's Triple-Linked Crane Wings are considered C Ranked Noble Phantasms equivalent to A Ranked Noble Phantasm's?
Click to expand...
Normal users can't ping staff. And about the problem itself, I think the explanation of before is better, lead to less confusion, and based on the fact that NP are indeed stronger than normal attacks, would be understandable that could hurt enemies of that caliber.
 
If someone could find an official source saying that C-rank NPs = A-rank physical attacks, it would be great.
 
Fate complete_material_III

"A set of rules for representing the rank of a particular status. They range from A~E. EX is in a league of its own, representing powerful to the extent of rendering comparisons meaningless. If we assign numbers to ranks, then E=10, with each subsequent rank increasing by +10. Ranks with “+” such as A+ and B+ can momentarily multiply its associated numerical value. For instance, C+(30) can temporarily boost its power to 60, exceeding Rank A (50). Also, “++” represents multiply by three times."
 
TypeVampire said:
A set of rules for representing the rank of a particular status. They range from A~E. EX is in a league of its own, representing powerful to the extent of rendering comparisons meaningless. If we assign numbers to ranks, then E=10, with each subsequent rank increasing by +10. Ranks with “+” such as A+ and B+ can momentarily multiply its associated numerical value. For instance, C+(30) can temporarily boost its power to 60, exceeding Rank A (50). Also, “++” represents multiply by three times.
Click to expand...
It doesn't say anything about C-Rank NPs being equal to A-Rank physical attacks though...
 
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oJBjf9u.png

Its in FSN.
 
TypeVampire said:
Fate complete_material_III

"A set of rules for representing the rank of a particular status. They range from A~E. EX is in a league of its own, representing powerful to the extent of rendering comparisons meaningless. If we assign numbers to ranks, then E=10, with each subsequent rank increasing by +10. Ranks with “+” such as A+ and B+ can momentarily multiply its associated numerical value. For instance, C+(30) can temporarily boost its power to 60, exceeding Rank A (50). Also, “++” represents multiply by three times."
Click to expand...
We should be able to use this to set a more concrete rating of the things, right? Like, for example, a Mana Burst of E+ (10) for say a example could be a ampx of x2 (20)? Obviously this can be developed but I think that using that info could be good to set various things.
 
Tsotso said:
I looked into this and it turns out that originally it used to say "As a C-rank Noble Phantasm, they can produce A-rank attacks that took off one of Berserker's lives, and Shirou used it to cut through Saber Alter's armor and destroy her heart and lungs in Heaven's Feel". I supposed this is based on C Rank NPs being equal to A Rank regular attacks, which is supposedly stated in the Parameter Rules. I read it on the Parameter Rules page on the Type-Moon Wiki which says "Converting the numbers, Noble Phantasms of C Rank are the equivalent of an A+ or A Rank regular attack". However, since that part doesn't include a citation, it should be taken with a big grain of salt.
Anyways, the description stayed that way until an edit was made by DemonGodMitchAubin on November 13th 2020 which changed the description to the following: "C Ranked Anti-Unit Noble Phantasms, which are equivalent to A Ranked Anti-Unit Noble Phantasm's that took off one of Berserker's lives, and Shirou used it to cut through Saber Alter's Armor, as well as destroy her heart and lungs in Heaven's Feel". In a later edit the description was changed to what it is right now: "C Ranked Anti-Unit Noble Phantasms, which are equivalent to A Ranked Anti-Unit Noble Phantasm's".

@DemonGodMitchAubin Could you elaborate on why EMIYA's Triple-Linked Crane Wings are considered C Ranked Noble Phantasms equivalent to A Ranked Noble Phantasm's?
Click to expand...
I just misread the initial justification and may have interpreted A Rank Attacks as A Rank Noble Phantasms
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
I just misread the initial justification and may have interpreted A Rank Attacks as A Rank Noble Phantasms
Click to expand...
Oh, ok. Since Triple-Linked Crane Wings are only equivalent to A Rank physicals, then they shouldn't be rated at Island level+, as servants with A Rank strength are only Island level. And the justification should be adjusted to what it was originally.

His AP and SS would be like this:

Attack Potency: Island level (Can fight against and deflect blows from Lancer, Saber, and Caster, and shot down Illya's Degen, which broke through one of Rin's barriers), higher with Triple-Linked Crane Wings (As a C-rank Noble Phantasm, they can produce A-rank attacks that took off one of Berserker's lives, and Shirou used it to cut through Saber Alter's armor and destroy her heart and lungs in Heaven's Feel), Island level+ with Kanshou and Bakuya: Overedge (Took off one of Berserker's lives), Caladbolg II (An A Ranked Broken Phantasm), Hrunting (An A Ranked Broken Phantasm), or Unlimited Blade Works (Unlimited Blade Works can match the Gate of Babylon. He was also able to kill Berserker six times in Fate using his many projections before falling in battle). Caladbolg II negates conventional durability by twisting space.

Striking Strength: Island Class (Comparable to his Attack Power), higher with Triple-Linked Crane Wings (Comparable to his Attack Power), Island Class+ with Kanshou and Bakuya: Overedge (Comparable to his Attack Power), Caladbolg II (Comparable to his Attack Power), Hrunting (Comparable to his Attack Power), or Unlimited Blade Works (Comparable to his Attack Power)


Earlier in this thread, I proposed that since EMIYA's status screen states he's capable of projecting A++ Rank NPs in UBW, then he should be capable of reaching Small Country level. ZephyrosOmega suggested to have UBW rated at "Varies from Island level to Small Country level" which a few users agreed with.

If that is accepted, then his AP and SS would be like this:

Attack Potency: Island level (Can fight against and deflect blows from Lancer, Saber, and Caster, and shot down Illya's Degen, which broke through one of Rin's barriers), higher with Triple-Linked Crane Wings (As a C-rank Noble Phantasm, they can produce A-rank attacks that took off one of Berserker's lives, and Shirou used it to cut through Saber Alter's armor and destroy her heart and lungs in Heaven's Feel), Island level+ with Kanshou and Bakuya: Overedge (Took off one of Berserker's lives), Caladbolg II (An A Ranked Broken Phantasm) or Hrunting (An A Ranked Broken Phantasm), Varies from Island level to Small Country level with Unlimited Blade Works (Unlimited Blade Works can match the Gate of Babylon. He was also able to kill Berserker six times in Fate using his many projections before falling in battle). Caladbolg II negates conventional durability by twisting space.

Striking Strength: Island Class (Comparable to his Attack Power), higher with Triple-Linked Crane Wings (Comparable to his Attack Power), Island Class+ with Kanshou and Bakuya: Overedge (Comparable to his Attack Power), Caladbolg II (Comparable to his Attack Power) or Hrunting (Comparable to his Attack Power), Varies from Island level to Small Country level with Unlimited Blade Works (Comparable to his Attack Power)
 
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What are the conclusions so far here?
 
So is Fanfnir just Low 6-B now? cause there are quite a few profile that are still 6-A scaling from him
Sieg's Akafiloga Argrise
Vortigern
Artoria's Rhongobongo
Lancer Alter's Rhongobongo
Romulus's Magna Voluisse Magnum
Quirinus's Per Aspera Ad Astra

Also since I think we're on agreement on this should I go ahead and downgrade everyone who's 6-A scaling from Altera to Low 6-B?
Mash's Lord Chaldeas
Altera's Teardrop Photon Ray
Boudica's Chariot of Boudica
Cu Alter's Gae Bolg
Scathach's Gae Bolg Alternative
 
Why would Fanfnir be Low 6-B now? If it has legitimate reasoning then it should remain that tier.

Not every NP that is A+ or higher must be Low 6-B so long as it has legitimate scaling and feats of its own. Low 6-B is just the baseline of what it is not the absolute.

As for Altera’s 6-A stuff it seems to also have its own scaling, so why should it be downgraded?
 
PsychoWarper said:
Why would Fanfnir be Low 6-B now? If it has legitimate reasoning then it should remain that tier.

Not every NP that is A+ or higher must be Low 6-B so long as it has legitimate scaling and feats of its own.

As for Altera’s 6-A stuff it seems to also have its own scaling, so why should it be downgraded?
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Because Low 6-B comes from Fafnir

Because the 6-A feat wasn't real. She was only going to destroy the capital not the whole physical empire
 
Ah ok honestly didnt remember thats where the Low 6-B came from, tho some of that 6-A scaling doesn’t specifically come just from Fafnir.

Like Vortigern has its own stuff like being the literal embodiment of Britain and the island of Britain is seemingly described as part of its body.
 
Well; if someone were to calc it and put into a blog. you could get some higher tier for Lord Camelot or mash'es shield through Cu Alter. Some vague statement of him being able to "blow up the world" or something like that. A nice low end would be to assume the size of the singularity
 
TheUnshakableOne said:
Well; if someone were to calc it and put into a blog. you could get some higher tier for Lord Camelot or mash'es shield through Cu Alter. Some vague statement of him being able to "blow up the world" or something like that. A nice low end would be to assume the size of the singularity
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The statements are that dragons can destroy entires countries, and Fafnir is a high ranking dragon so he could probably be higher, it's just that we are using the low ball of Orleans, so if the thing of Cu is used can be argumented that Fafnir could also scale.
 
Expectro2000xxx said:
The statements are that dragons can destroy entires countries, and Fafnir is a high ranking dragon so he could probably be higher, it's just that we are using the low ball of Orleans, so if the thing of Cu is used can be argumented that Fafnir could also scale.
Click to expand...
This is in reference to lord camelot for mash

Fate/Grand Order has a big middle finger to tiers anyways
 
If I remember Goetia curbstomped Mash, killed her, Then Roman pulled of his suicide move which weakened Goetia enough to be beaten by Ritsuka in a fistfight
 
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