Nasuverse Discussion Board (New Forum)

[Cautiousexedius]

This is your assumption, and not proven by anything. Plus, its explained how ryougi came to the event (hint, she wasnt summoned from the throne), but her soul came.

Assumption? So are you implying to me that we can save the Root to ToH? It doesn't mean anything that your soul came. This is completely off topic. I'm talking about the inconsistencies of the Void being the same as the Saber.

Again, based on your assumption, and not fact.

If you think what I am saying is assumption, the same goes for you. Because you interpret the statements in your own way, even though these interpretations create contradictions. I have explained this in previous threads by evaluating Nasu's interview and the current situation

 

[Cautiousexedius]

—The flesh, we may say, becomes the basis of the intellect. It does not itself "have" an intellect. The flesh simply "is." But the flesh does have a personality, a will, of a kind. It grows up as one with, and gives birth to, the intellect. That - is what I am.

Ah, he said. He'd heard it somewhere before, hadn't he. That the human being is composed of three different things. Mind and soul, to which is added the fleshly body. Supposing, then, that the mind resides in the brain, and the soul in the body. That makes her - what? Shiki's essence. Her true character. A personality, "the body", with nothing of Shiki's heart.

Gently, she nodded her head. Ryougi Shiki did.

—Basically, that's how it is.

—"I" am not a personality borne of the intellect. I am the personality of the flesh as such.
—Ultimately, Shiki - he and she could exchange with one another because they held my currency in common. A single foundation governed them both. That is "Ryougi Shiki." You know Ryougi is liangyi, so it stands to reason that two liangyi together make a taiji, doesn't it? That is me. I am that which takes the shape of the taiji, its circular outline.

—They were my creations. Each of them an "I" of the same order as myself. Or, no; since they each possessed a will, an inclination of their own, you could say they were of a higher order than myself. Even if they were different personalities, their lines of thought were one in that they were both essentially the good and evil within "Ryougi Shiki." They originated from me, and concluded with me. Had they not, their differing inclinations should never have been able to coexist.



—I think I get it, he said. Your ability to "know" or "perceive" the outside world is dependent on Shiki's personality.

—Correct. I am simply an unpowered piece of hardware. Without the requisite software I am just an inert box.

Again the same argument and the same quote

 

[Wankbreaker]

Again the same argument and the same quote

Because it’s not getting through to you. Void Shiki herself says they are facets of the same existence.

She isn’t different from the other 2 existence wise (which is why she calls them the same order as herself)

 

[Wankbreaker]

here's the raw text,actually:

　わたしは、わたしと同格のわたしを作った。いえ、意志という方向性がある以上、彼女たちはわたしより高位 なわたしかしらね。ふたりが異なる人格であろうと思考回路が同一だったのは、彼女たちが結局『両儀式の中の 善と悪』だったから。発端はわたしであり、また、その結論もわたしにある。そうしなければ異なる方向性の彼 女たちが両立できるはずはないものね」


"I created another, equal version of myself. No, given that there's a sense of will, they might be considered higher than me. Although they are different personalities, their thought processes were identical because, after all, they were the 'good and evil within Shiki Ryougi.' The origin is me, and the conclusion also lies with me. Without that, those two, with their differing directions, wouldn't be able to coexist."

 

[Wankbreaker]

Assumption? So are you implying to me that we can save the Root to ToH? It doesn't mean anything that your soul came. This is completely off topic. I'm talking about the inconsistencies of the Void being the same as the Saber.

simple, she isnt the root. She just embodies it.
The personality of the body itself, embodying 「 」 that represents the beginning.

She slumbers within Shiki from her birth to her death.

unless... you think manaka is the root as well?

──世界そのものにさえ等しい、万物を生む根源がかたちを成した少女。沙条愛歌。
"The girl who embodies the very Root of all creation, equal to the world itself. Sajyou Manaka."

真理と化した女の子であり、すべてを成せる女の子でした。 命を、と望めば命を発生させられる。 ささや まんえん 死を、と囁けば死を蔓延させられる。 つな 世界は彼女と繫がっていて、彼女は世界と繫がっていたのかもしれません。 彼女はおよそ全能でした。 不可能などひとつもない。すべてを操って、成し遂げ、崩し去ることができる。そんな機能をもって ゆえしまった故に何事にも楽しみがなくなってしまった彼女は、自分の全能にひとつだけルールを作りまし た。 それは「自分の未来は見ないようにする」というものです。 世界そのものにも等しい彼女は、自分自身に制限を掛けたのです。 かせ ルール。制限。枷。だって、それぐらいしないと全能はとても退屈で。ヒトのままでいる意味がまるで なくなって、生命活動なんて続けていられない。きっと死んでしまう。 結果的に、彼女の行動は正解だったのでしょう。まぶた 少なくとも彼女は毎朝眠りから目覚めて、瞼を開けて、呼吸をして、窓越しに空を見上げたり、さえず 小鳥の囀りへ耳を傾けたり、父へ透き通った視線を向けたりできました。父の言うがままに魔術を操るあれこれもやってのけました。生まれたばかりの妹に対しては、父や母のように涙を流したりはし ないまでも、他の人間たちがするように、小さな妹の頰を指でつついて、その柔らかさを確かめたりで きました。

She was a girl who became truth itself, a girl who could accomplish everything. If she wished for life, she could create it. If she whispered death, she could spread it. The world might have been connected to her, and she to the world. She was virtually omnipotent. There was not a single thing that was impossible. She could manipulate, achieve, and dismantle everything. Because she had such abilities, she lost enjoyment in everything and decided to create one rule about her omnipotence. That was "to not see her own future."She, who was almost equal to the world itself, imposed limitations on herself. A rule. A restriction. A shackle. Because without doing that much, omnipotence was very boring. Staying human became meaningless, and continuing life activities wouldn't be possible. She would surely perish. In the end, her action was probably the right decision.At the very least, every morning she awakened from sleep, opened her eyes, breathed, and looked up at the sky through the window. She could listen to the chirping of small birds and gaze transparently at her father. As her father instructed, she performed various acts of magic. Although she did not shed tears like her father or mother for her newborn sister, she could poke her little sister's cheeks with her fingers, like other humans do, to feel their softness.

Also, it isnt unrelated. The soul is a perfect record of the existence, unless damage or corrupted in some way.
Shiki transported her soul, ergo her existence to the singularity. Meaning there is no feasible reason for her to be nerfed, realistically.

Nasu also says that she's at the same tier as OG ciel, btw.

If you think what I am saying is assumption, the same goes for you. Because you interpret the statements in your own way, even though these interpretations create contradictions. I have explained this in previous threads by evaluating Nasu's interview and the current situation

And I explained how there is no contradiction.

 

[LamentSatanael]

My sister in spook Wankbreaker if only you put this much effort into replying my Olga > AE argument

But regardless, I think I can see your points regarding the Void thing but idrc at the end of the day.

Question for Godboy— you got any specific FSN calcs?

 

[Wankbreaker]

My sister in spook Wankbreaker if only you put this much effort into replying my Olga > AE argument

lazy zzz

I can see your point though, I just think Olga is hard to place.

AE is also according to MBAA, capable of creating supernovae (or at least miniature ones

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

Question for Godboy— you got any specific FSN calcs?

Me? Uh, I've never done any calcs before. Or did you mean that there were any feats I wanted calced?

The only from Fate/stay night that I can think of off the top of my head is Heracles slicing a mountain in half, but that's been calculated a lot before.

 

[Cautiousexedius]

Because it’s not getting through to you. Void Shiki herself says they are facets of the same existence.

She isn’t different from the other 2 existence wise (which is why she calls them the same order as herself)

The fact that they are "aspects" of the same existence does not make them equivalent to the same level, the same ontological level or the same power. We can explain this simply with [].

Although the Vortex of Origin, the Akashic Records or the Spiral Origin are referred to as aspects of [], this does not mean that [] is on the same level as the Vortex of Origin, the Spiral Origin or the Akashic Records. Although they are aspects of [], the Akashic Records are referred to as such by magicians and those whose ultimate goal is to access the root. And the meaning behind that varies according to one's understanding, and it's generally considered to be the source of everything and the place from which everything flows.

But these are only one aspect or extension of it and cannot be reduced to any sub-aspect. And although these aspects are explained differently by each consciousness, the moment we baptize [] as anything, it ceases to be [], because the naming reduces it to what it is not by nature. And this means that even though they are aspects of the same existence, they are in a different state. Here [] is Void. So this aspect state is analogous to this

here's the raw text,actually:

　わたしは、わたしと同格のわたしを作った。いえ、意志という方向性がある以上、彼女たちはわたしより高位 なわたしかしらね。ふたりが異なる人格であろうと思考回路が同一だったのは、彼女たちが結局『両儀式の中の 善と悪』だったから。発端はわたしであり、また、その結論もわたしにある。そうしなければ異なる方向性の彼 女たちが両立できるはずはないものね」


"I created another, equal version of myself. No, given that there's a sense of will, they might be considered higher than me. Although they are different personalities, their thought processes were identical because, after all, they were the 'good and evil within Shiki Ryougi.' The origin is me, and the conclusion also lies with me. Without that, those two, with their differing directions, wouldn't be able to coexist."

You don't need to talk about the distinction about personality again here because you cannot take Saber as one of her aspects and reduce it to the same existence, there is a clear difference. And you still think that his being the personality of the body limits it

simple, she isnt the root. She just embodies it.
The personality of the body itself, embodying 「 」 that represents the beginning.

She slumbers within Shiki from her birth to her death.

unless... you think manaka is the root as well?

Just concretize it? It is also part of it, even "itself". This is clearly indicated in the scans. If you are claiming that it is not the root and that you only embody it and are not part of it, I can send you the scans on that. And Manaka and Shiki are not related to the Root to the same extent. She is connected to the Akashic Record, Shiki is connected to [], or herself, if we honestly take aspects and talk about it.

Also, it isnt unrelated. The soul is a perfect record of the existence, unless damage or corrupted in some way.
Shiki transported her soul, ergo her existence to the singularity. Meaning there is no feasible reason for her to be nerfed, realistically.

Nasu also says that she's at the same tier as OG ciel, btw.

It is not difficult to understand that is the Assassin form of Shiki, which Nasu says here is equal to Ciel. And again, if you are going to make the absurd argument that it is Void, I suggest you review what I said in the previous thread. It's annoying trying to explain the same things to someone over and over again, especially when it's such a ridiculous topic.
Also, "Nasu said so" is a phrase we shouldn't use