Hasty12345
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This guy neglected to mention he brought up DB first
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Nasuverse Discussion Board (New Forum)
- Thread starter DemonGodMitchAubin
- Start date
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Yeah, I read a bit of the conversation and it seemed like that, but didn't mention it because I honestly don't want to fuel the discussion
Tdjwo
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I brought up DB in response to you being a fan of it. Never used it as a powerscaling diss. Way to go about ignoring context.
Hasty12345
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Tdjwo
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What's bĺud waffling bout?You CANNOT talk about ignoring context
KingNanaya
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Can yall stop the pointless back and forth?
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What's really wrong with the verse overall to warrant deletion? Like the calcs or the ratings are outdated from the bottom tiers to top tiers?
KingNanaya
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the over circular scaling, the use of a few calcs, some statements being used that probably shouldn't be, and some other stuff
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the inverse scaling is just awful all around, interview statements for scaling got rejected in a semi-recent thread and a lot of the profiles rely on those, if the servant parameter scaling gets removed that'd also just invalidate the justifications for a large number of profiles as well, the fact that a lot of them have barely changed since like 2017 aside from tier upgrades, there's a pretty sizeable amount of just straight-up headcanon too, the list goes on tbh
the profiles would basically need a rewrite from the ground up and deleting them would make it easier for a dedicated group of people to do that without random blue names who just registered their accounts making revisions on things that we're already planning on addressing
ShinyMagicalGirl
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No one specifically, but there is A LOT of passive aggressiveness here. I don’t feel comfortable pointing out an exact person, it’s just the general vibe here.
I don’t care if its jokes, jokes that are made with the intent to be passive aggressive or mocking others, intentionally or not, promotes an unhealthy community for a hobby.
Yes I know trash talking in video games exist, but that doesn’t mean it’s a good thing. It’s totally fine to disagree and debate; there’s such thing as voting and agreeing to disagreeing.
I think the main problem of VSB right now is that people feel way too entitled about their opinions and when people do not agree with them, they will eventually resort to passive aggressiveness. This is not only in the Nasuverse fandom in this wiki; Touhou, DmC, Mario and others seem to have this problem.
Of course, not everyone’s like this, and I don’t want to believe this can’t change. For every annoying person, there’s good people, I want to believe that. To strive for that, just being polite, dropping the “I’m always right” attitude, and not resorting to passive aggressive actions will really help make this forum feel less suffocating.
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Let's be honest, any power scaling community has a **** ton of PasAgg - in the end, it is the case that if two people disagree, one of them is gonna be wrong, and people don't like that.
The Visual Novels / japanese media verses are specially bad in power scaling communities because 99% of people here don't speak japanese, and therefore rely on translations. Fate/Nasuverse, on this topic, is specially affected, as even the so called "official" translations/localizatons for Fate tend to be shit. When it's Nasu himself that is writting this is even worse because (as far as I know, through japanese speaking people comments) he writes in a specially untranslatable way (neologisms and "puns" are pretty frequent, phrases that you literally cannot know who the **** each part of the sentence is refering to with certain, he likes to invent katakana for words sometimes - Rheingold was translated to something completely non-sensical for years and years in FSN - and uses katakana for really specific mythology related things, some really ******* obscure) and likes to use references and contexts that maybe even a japanese wouldn't know without looking up on google.
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To me the main thing is that people still pretend like type-moon is one unified canon even though it certainly isn't and I feel the misinformation stems from there add to the fact nobody gets it in terms of messages, power scaling etc and people will act entitled even for headcanon.
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Yeah, this is definitely problematic, but I think that Nasu himself is to blame for this specific case in a way. If you have read Narita's epilogues in El-Melloi's, he (Nasu) is someone who tend to care little for consistency, what even Narita himself seemed to think was awkward at first. Too much time has been spent on lore about QTL / Parallel & Adjacent Worlds while trying to explain away the routes and the diferent "realities" of each work.
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Huh, also BTW
Nasu is stated to be a compulsive liar and admits to it. Meaning nobody should trust anything he says because he could be lying and I haven't even gotten in to how nasus ideologies are opposed to the ideologies of the older works.
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I just want people to stop treating what Rin & Sakura said in FSN OG about Parallel Worlds/etc (infinite possibilities and etc) as "true"/Word of God... Two little girls who, even if prodigies by circustance, are jack shit in the grand scheme of things do not know anything about a topic that is literally the core of the Second Magic, please...
The rest I can deal with, but this one strikes harder than Shirou "never had circuits and literally made his nerves be circuits, and that's correct", which is also terribad
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Really? huh thats what your concerned about I am concerned about people injecting Nasu's hilariously naive and immature worldviews in to the source material. Also i think that old canon having infinite amount of worlds is plausible anyways personally.
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Araya Souren wins at the end of the day because the original Melty Blood seems to heavily imply that humanity loses and dies off.
Despite calculating all possible futures, the end of humanity is certain. But not only that, the more they struggle to survive and try to go on, the more horrid their end is, as if they are angering someone further by trying to survive like **** roaches. Notice that there is no solution presented for this in Melty Blood. Not even a faint glimmer of hope. Instead, Arcueid just says to accept it. And Osiris's solution was to just kill humanity now and leave the record of their existence, as she considers that a form of being alive still. Stupid, but notice the record thing feels like a callback to Araya himself. Archetype also includes herself in saying that the End is inevitable, meaning it's clearly something or someone capable of defeating everyone in creation, like Araya with full mastery over his Origin.
While stuff like the Aylesbury ritual, Overcount 1999, and similar scenarios pose significant dangers to humanity, they are not the absolute end. Araya represents the ultimate dead end. His mastery over his Origin and his philosophical approach to returning everything to Nothingness signify the final and unavoidable doom for humanity. Other scenarios, while dangerous, do not possess the same definitive and absolute nature of Araya's threat. Especially not one that would require altering the Sixth law itself and encompass Archetype Earth as well. Someone who has control over the Sixth and is supposed to manage the cycle of Life and Death.
On top of that, the notion of falling into "the pits of hell" Wallachia was referring to and becoming mad aligns with Araya's embodiment of Hell and its unchanging, static nature of suffering. This parallel strengthens the thematic connection between the inevitable destruction foreseen by the Atlas members and Araya's ultimate goal; Araya's embodiment of Hell and its static, unchanging suffering mirrors the fate predicted by the Atlas alchemists. The repeated calculations leading only to destruction reinforce the idea of a static, predetermined future that cannot be altered.
The comparison between Atlas's calculations and Araya's nature suggests a deeper thematic connection where the despair and inevitability faced by the alchemists are a reflection of the same despair and inevitability that Araya represents. Both Archetype Earth's acknowledgment and Wallachia's statements highlight the futility of resisting this predetermined end. The more they struggle, the more horrible their end becomes, implying that resistance is not just futile but counterproductive. This aligns with the idea that any effort to change the future only brings them closer to the inevitable destruction Araya envisions.
Also, Osiris says she wants to give humanity the quickest and "cleanest end", implying death at the hands of Araya will be much worse. Lines up with Wallachia saying the harder humans try, the more terrible their end is.
Her reason for an eternal record is that it'll give meaning to humans even after their death if other species can find it. That's however the opposite of Araya, as the record itself didn't give meaning. The record was a tool for him to review humanity and see if they had meaning. But he would have returned all to Nothingness regardless. Osiris essentially mistook the means for the end, as Wallachia also scolded her for:
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Not even concerned, it's just that the print with the mirror moon translation and withotu any idea of what the original what actually could imply/be translated as has been used so many times that I don't have the patience anymore. I think I've seen mirror moon translations of Rin/Sakura things been used more than 40-50 times, sometimes the person seems to not know basic FSN worldbuilding, but all times they never care about what the original work actually says, they argue the translation.
The early naivety of Nasu is expected, the earlier works are from late High School in essence. Maybe they aren't even that Nasu himself has said Worldviews (word that carries a lot of weight for Magecraft and in TsukihimeRe, actually), but the "glasses" the story is told by.
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Nah the older works were not written by him as he gets wrong things about them such as saying stuff like Mikiya is the strong one and Ryougi is weak.
Nasu portrays Mikiya as the one with superior mental strength, who serves as a guiding influence, despite Kara no Kyoukai clearly depicting both characters as equally resilient mentally, with Mikiya being merely "as fierce" as Shiki. Ryougi suppresses her potent Origin impulses, recognized by Touko as particularly severe due to Ryougi's heightened awareness from Origin Awakening. Furthermore, Ryougi's deep understanding and early disdain for humanity originate from her innate intelligence since childhood.
Contrary to Nasu's claim, Mikiya does not "feed" Ryougi; their relationship operates in reverse. In Chapter 7, Shiki resolves her inner turmoil independently. This emphasizes Shiki's own agency and internal growth, which contradicts the idea that Mikiya plays a significant role in shaping or guiding her decisions beyond providing emotional support and being the anchor that gives her the will to live and resist her innate urges to an extent. Nasu suggests a dynamic where Mikiya plays a more active role in influencing Shiki's behavior. However, in the actual narrative, Mikiya's role is more passive. In fact, Shiki only begins to confide in him once she starts reconciling her current self with her past and her inclination towards Death. Again, Mikiya mainly acts as a stabilizing force to prevent her from succumbing to those impulses and causing unnecessary harm.
Moreover, Nasu's assertion that "anyone can wield a sword to physically overcome someone" disregards crucial factors such as skill, training, and mental fortitude, all critical in combat within Type-Moon, especially among Origin-Awakened individuals like Ryougi. This theme is thoroughly explored in Ryougi's character development. If mental strength alone were decisive, why did Enjou fail to defeat Araya?
KingNanaya
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because that man was literally worthless
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Exactly but Nasu the moron thinks Enjou could've won if he just picked up a sword.
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I dont think he means that literally, more likely he is refering to the recurring theme of humans as a "tool using species" that is, by itself, weak.
But I do see your point.
I don't completely agree with Nasu statement there, but I think I understand what he is refering to. Overall, he still wrote really complex and layered male and female characters, but he could just as well personally think he incurred in X or Y error. Maybe his own wording was bad, or his impression is different from the others for many reasons, but I think that is such a blunder.
But @TheSilverKing14 could you elaborate on the worldview you think is naive in Melty Blood? I understand the "fatalist" position the work overall takes is well, fatalistic, but in other works before and around that time he put forth very diferent worldviews and outside of the works, himself, has always been known for "Humanity can do anything." (Which has been mistranslated as Humanity is Omnipotent)
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I get that but with nasu's track record in how many basic plot points of series he supposedly worked on he failed to properly get I am suspicious of him and his relation to the older works (aka the only ones I care about since I have no interest in the schlock that is the modern canon).
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Sure, I'll continue this in PM's and explain what i mean further.
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That's the reality of current vsbw, if you can't adapt or growing the thick skins over mocking and shit talking then you may as well just remain silent or minding your business with the niche franchise and your friends circle
Tdjwo
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Says the person crying about me being "toxic" or "mean" everytime.
Ubdon
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It's [Demerit] of being nasu fan and power scaler
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Appeal to Authority fallacyI guess Nasu or theologists also cooked up nonsense with their philosophical doctrinesYou are definitely smarter
At this point, why are you even wasting your time here if you don't believe in dimensional tiering or r>f?
Also for the second it’s mainly for amusement and fun as I don’t care about whatever the wiki does since even now with Ultimas nonsense pseudo intellectual garbage I disagree with 99% of what is on this wiki and how it goes about doing things, herd mentality, etc.
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I don't what you all arguing about, but I'm just having fun playing Tsukihime: A Piece of Blue Glass Moon. If you haven't played it yet, go buy it and play it! It's great so far.
I'm actually pretty surprised that the scene where Shiki (under the influence of Arcueid's Mystic Eyes and his own unknown, underlying... issues) almost r*pes Arcueid was kept in. I guess it works since it shows Shiki at his lowest point right after Arcueid was at her lowest point.
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Almost? In the OG there was an option to give up to his instincts and do it afaik. Though I didn't choose it when I played it, so idk if it is an option where "he gives up but ends up controlling himself" so it does not end up in pure rape
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As it should be
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skull emoji
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Tsukihime Fans when I tell them about how in FSN Sakura can r@pe Rin using her black goo in HF and how Rider did the same earlier in the route through the dream.
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My curiosity got the best of me, so I picked that option here in the Remake. Shiki doesn't rape her, but he does cut her into pieces again. It results in a bad ending, which I'm pretty sure was the case in the original too.
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Don't forget that she does it to Shirou too in the same bad ending!
I think it's pretty ironic how loyal Rider is to Sakura, yet she does this (the same applies to her sex scene in Fate/Hollow Ataraxia). It's even more ironic considering what happens in the most famous version of Medusa's story (though, Fate doesn't really go with it).
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Rider and Sakura are hypocrites and worthless scum and no amount of tragic backstory fuel will ever make me budge. And yea Medusa is a horny milf indeed but Sakura is one of the ******** in fiction I have seen (any official one).
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Why are we discussing rape in a powerscaling forum 
