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Nasuverse Discussion Board (New Forum)

@Theoretical I am not sure why you have repeatedly become hostile in this thread, but my pointing out that "you'd make a poor translator" is not an insult in the fashion of the constant mockery you engage in whenever I attempt to discuss something here. I'm not going to allow that further, so I'd suggest you shape up and learn to cool down during a discussion or I'm simply going to threadban you.

SweetDao said:
I agree with Regidian, no matter the efforts put into the current discussion, only the staff thread really matters.
Click to expand...
I agree, but it can be helpful to work out certain discussions separately so that they do not clog the thread.
 
SweetDao said:
I think this place isn't the right one for petty fight. Deagonx has his views, you have too, it's normal that some idea clash, especially if Deagonx point of view is incompatible with the current rating of the verse (hence why he's "always" against the verse in your eyes)
Click to expand...
Where is the "petty fight?" Deagon's entire premise has always been based on biases. And it's a no Brainer he doesn't like the verse. It's known on discord as well. No matter how many evidences shown to him, he just disregards them and forces his objectively incorrect opinions. Can't count how many times we've had to deal with the same topic he brings up. It's not funny at all. Especially from someone who gets information from people rather than actually sitting down to watch/read the series before making debunks.
 
Deagonx said:
I'll ask: Which verses do you believe I am less strict towards than Nasuverse?
Click to expand...
I barely see you in any other verse that isn't Nasuverse. Literally everytime a Nasu crt comes up, regardless of how irrelevant it is, you always somehow make the thread unbearable. And you do this with Nasuverse mainly.

Not to mention, how you are ALWAYS the first staff to make a comment on Nasu threads and its so predictable what your comments are.
 
Tdjwo said:
Where is the "petty fight?" Deagon's entire premise has always been based on biases. And it's a no Brainerd he doesn't like the verse. It's known om discord as well. No matter how many evidences shown to him, he just disregards them and forces his objectively incorrect opinions. Can't count how many times we've had to deal with the same topic he brings up. It's not funny at all. Especially from someone who gets information from people rather than actually sitting down to watch/read the series before making debunks.
Click to expand...
What I meant by "petty fight" is how, no matter the Nasuverse conversation, there is an overwhelming atmosphere of "if you go against the crowd, there will be a witch hunt against you." You can check any thread regarding dimensionality of the verse (or similar aspect, so the Root falls into that too) and you'll see that discussion are heated more often than not.

Only time I've seen a Nasuverse CRT goes well was the recent one made by Nanaya regarding Thread manip (and it was so obvious that even a blind person would accept it)

Ultimately, if you give him arguments, and he doesn't think it's enough, he's not "discarding them", he's just not convinced by them. Even if he's "against the verse" (which I don't think personally) he's still only one staff out of at least a dozen of them (if not more), even if he always goes "I disagree" on Nasu thread, he's not going to alter the outcome if everyone else agree.

I'm personally against the High 1-B statement for example (I don't think I have a bias against the verse), and the "argument" given on the thread itself aren't enough to make me think it's legit while I'm sure Nasu supporter think it's enough and legitimate, but eventually, if staff agrees on it, then I'll accept it, since there isn't much I can do anyway tbf.
 
SweetDao said:
What I meant by "petty fight" is how, no matter the Nasuverse conversation, there is an overwhelming atmosphere of "if you go against the crowd, there will be a witch hunt against you." You can check any thread regarding dimensionality of the verse (or similar aspect, so the Root falls into that too) and you'll see that discussion are heated more often than not.

Only time I've seen a Nasuverse CRT goes well was the recent one made by Nanaya regarding Thread manip (and it was so obvious that even a blind person would accept it)

Ultimately, if you give him arguments, and he doesn't think it's enough, he's not "discarding them", he's just not convinced by them. Even if he's "against the verse" (which I don't think personally) he's still only one staff out of at least a dozen of them (if not more), even if he always goes "I disagree" on Nasu thread, he's not going to alter the outcome if everyone else agree.

I'm personally against the High 1-B statement for example (I don't think I have a bias against the verse), and the "argument" given on the thread itself aren't enough to make me think it's legit while I'm sure Nasu supporter think it's enough and legitimate, but eventually, if staff agrees on it, then I'll accept it, since there isn't much I can do anyway tbf.
Click to expand...
Is the argument for 1-B this statement from Roa?

`"Why reincarnation, anyway? It'd be a lot easier to prolong your own individual life, and more importantly, you wouldn't cause problems for anyone else.
Because if I did that, I'd eventually reach a limit. There is no upper bound to human perception――no end to the path toward omnipotence. No matter how transcendental you become, there will always be something that lies ahead."
Take, for example, a certain nun who suddenly turned up among the Burial Agency. Using the sabbath, she became a devil, and so obtained a sense for the higher dimensions, turning functionally almighty in ours. But even she is still bound by her material form――still bound to this universe. As for why―――"`

If so, this verse is doomed more than it already is. Literally one of the weakest pieces of evidence for hyperversal. I get the feeling people are trying to latch on to whatever since this site about to revise what counts as outerversal.
 
Violatas said:
Is the argument for 1-B this statement from Roa?
Click to expand...
It is. This is why I personally don't buy it. But eh, like Roa himself says, "there is no upper bound to human perception" so everyone sees the thing differently.

Also, it's for High 1-B, not just 1-B.
 
I planning to list Lostbelt/Servant version Morgan feat (with some other character)

1. As Chaldea servant she can Rayshift herself and habetrot in the beginning of Sea Monster Crisis chapter 4 and Da-Vinci is pissed and comment how she rayshift herself without authorezation section 18 sea monster event.

2. Section 10 Da Vinci confirmed Morgan weaponized form in her hand is equal to Lion King. She have 12 and already fired one of them to Olympus. Section 24 Da Vinci tell Ritsuka and other the power of Morgan is equal to Singalurity 6 and in order to avoid Morgan fired Rhongomyniad to them which destroy city they must enter castle. As Servant Morgan can use Rhongomyniad in the Illya Castle event and databook mentioned her noble phantasm is Rhongomyniad. Morgan profile mentioned of this : She's a faerie of the highest grade and a divinely talented mage who learned Rhongomyniad, the lance on the edges of the world, as a form of magecraft. Gordolf made statement in beginning of Lostbelt 6.2 Rhongomyniad is powerfull spell.

3. In Summer event Morgan can make the rune which is hard to destroyed by Circe , Taigong Wang , Skadi and Medea in summer event. Only Merlin can do it but choose don't help Ritsuka and the others.

4. Can summon Knocknarea as servant due to her connection as Lostbelt King without chaldea help her.

5. Lostbelt King Morgan can use water mirror magic to made calamity dissapeared to Fae Era in Section 4. Section 8 According to Da Vinci Water Mirror is have gigantic reactor which have the power of chaldea around 2 mouth and Fujimaru claimed that is enough for singularity repair Rayshift. As Chaldea servant in sea monster event she can use water mirror magic but due to the rule of PHH is different compare to her Lostbelt she can't use it.

6. Berly describe Morgan as super scary and have broken ability such like Teleportation spell, 12 Rhongomyniad,Can Rasyhift without Coffin which sent Calamity to Ancient time and have garden to sealed Merlin in section 14 and Section 24 Lostbelt 5.2 he said Morgan intended to destroy Olympus and her rhongomyniad for Alien God. Lostbelt 6.2 Section 21 Morgan will attack Greek Lostbelt who already cover entire planet. Rasputin order Muramasa to kill Morgan and destroy Rhongomyniad because that weapon can hurt U-Olga in last part of lostbelt 5.2 section 27 and Chaldea side mention Rhongomyniad have potential to beat Alien God.

Rhongomyniad is so powerful to the point can destroy complete version of tree of fantasy. Accourding to Wodime the only way who can destroyed is himself and Zeus due to his connection as Lostbelt King in section 23 Lostbelt 5.2 .
Beginning of lostbelt 5.2 Zeus admit to Rasputin and Limbo he can't do anything to tree of fantasy. What he could do is just destroy Alien God point of arrival the moment tree of fantasy is complete in Lostbelt 5.2 section 6.

7. Can fight against Six Bells Castoria , Percival , Super Mashu , Da Vinci and Ritsuka with shadow servant.

Six Bell Castoria around Lostbelt King level in section 23. She can shield storm border from Dragon Melusine themic rays.After section 24 and during interlude before section 25 Castoria claiming her power still below Morgan. After Muramasa sacrifice himself to made excaliburn in section 28 Castoria claimed she is getting stronger and Merlin complain about it however she also made statement in Section 29 she never come close to Morgan in strength or ability, and that she was given only a single more chance to show her worth for a single moment to her, something that required Castoria to sacrifice everything she had which in order to destroy Cernunnos she used herself as ammo and replace Rhngomyniad with Excalburn.

Section 23 Morgan state she complete her pilgrimage to many times and Section 24 Morgan made same statement to the point calling Castoria is stupid to match her with only one pilgrimage.If you level up Morgan to 4rd ascension her power as servant is 1/3 compare to her lostbelt king level, Here what she tell us : Finally, I feel at ease. This is but a mere third of my original power, but...No matter. I acknowledge your efforts, Master. After the event of LB6 Castoria pointed pointed in term of magical energy and smartes Morgan is better than her. Here what she said to LB Morgan: I may lose out in terms of magical energy and smarts, but I'm definitely on top when it comes to competitive spirit and guts! Huh? She used to be King of the Demon Boars back in the day? Come on! She's a straight upgrade in every way———! But still, when talking about final achievements, I'm hardly on track to lose, right.

Percival is around Fairy Knight level to the point Morgan want him to join her army in section 3. Accourding to Woodwose in section 15 during the Tournament of Robins had Percival used Lost Longinus he can win against Fairy Knight Lancelot.He made same statement about Percival can fight against Melusine in Section 14.

Super Mashu is around High tier class. This statement come from Da Vinci even Ritsuka agree with her in section 20 around 10:17:08-10:18:21. That mean Super Mashu pretty much strongest than her LB 5 which blessed by Athena Kinomelea , authority to increase combat ability and imbue the recipent with combat ability skill and Buffed 300x by Romulus-Quarinus. When Mashu used Athena Kinomelea she can use othinax output to 90% in Section 6 of Lostbelt 5.2 and turn her shield into Divine Artifact to protect her from Zeus attack in Section 21 of Lostbelt 5.2

Ritsuka with Shadow Servant can fight against Barghest in LB6 Section 18 .and According to Fairy on Throne Ritsuka power can rival their knight in Section 23. Murasama mentioned her shadow servant with decent plan can beat Tamlin in section 6.

8.Morgan Durability. Can endure attack from Woodwose to the point all of fairies around her throne is fear toward him due to how strong his power. After Woodwose is death Fairies on the throne worried about her condition. Avalon Le Fae Synopsis mentioned her condition like this: Woodwose assassinates Morgan. Woodwose disintegrates before he can become Moss. Morgan is fatally wounded but not dead yet. Aesc , one of her younger self have C durability.

Here some statement about how strong is Woodwose

Get slashed behind Two Knight when she let her guardown due to Springgan holding Baobhan Sith as hostage in section 24.Avalon Le Fae synopsis mention same thing: As Morgan stood up in an attempt to return to the throne, Spriggan appeared with the captured hostage Baobhan Sith. Morgan gets impaled while she's distracted by Baobhan Sith. That seals the deal. She falls to the ground. Section 25 around 44:10-45:01 show the same knight kill Cnoc Na Rea Fairy Knight.

Weakened Morgan also enduring the attack of Fairies .They mauled her until got tired because she that hard to kill and stubborn to died. Here how strong fairies:
  1. Faeries is above Human to the point Da Vinci said most of averange Fairy including Mike is stronger than Basic Castoria but the latter is strongest than human in section 3 around 2:52:24-2:53:18
  2. After Tristan recover his memory he said demonic britain beast is nothing compare to Round of Table but admit fairies is above him in section 2 salisbury.
  3. Tristan also knowledge Fairies is too powerful for human during him and Ritsuka still lose their memory and really doubt about them can beat the guard in section 1 and same section mention Fairies is strongest than him and can kill them if they want.
  4. Avalon Le Fae Synopsis Chapter 6 General by Comun mentioned of Faeries is stronger than them during the time losing their memories: Tristram is nervous, in contrast to Lysander and Mash’s lack of a sense of danger. Sir T: “They may seem like weakly creatures for you two…” Sir T: “But fae are terrifying by default. Even that nameless faerie could defeat three of myself.”, he points out how high faerie stats are (exposition directed at the player).
  5. Section 3 claim after Ritsuka and the others defeated one of Morgan's ordinary knights, Da Vinci admitted that the knight is strong for them. They attempted to fight three of them, but it proved to be too much. Generally, the Round Table Army has to outnumber the knights and use Mors Poison and numbers to defeat them. According to Tristan, in terms of individual strength, fairies are stronger than human.
  6. Section 8 One of Fang clan claimed Human is never better than Fairies.
  7. Section 26 Da Vinci also said Fairies power is strongest than human.

9. Melusine stated Morgan is the only being in Fae Britain along with Calamity Barghest in section 23, who called Cath Plug equal able to face her full power. Oberon state that he had no means of defeating Morgan, his profile stated he needed to give everything to kill Morgan and end by genuinely showing respect for her. Oberon Vortigern profile mentioned he was thwarted twice by her during high queen era, which led to the creation of "Oberon" as the third attemp. Goldolf also state before learning Morgan have 12 Rhongomyniad one of Rhongomyniad and her water mirror made her comparable to previous lostbelt king. Castoria also state Morgan magical energy exceed her tam lin knight. Accourding to ordinary Fairy Morgan power can cover britain itself. Section 19 there statement Morgan take down all six clans and Section 24 mentioned same statement again this time without Rhongomyniad. Accourding to Mashu in section 24 compare to Magical Energy Core she felt Camelot is surpassing everything.

10. Although BB create singularity Morgan can maintain itself. Accourding to Artoria Avalon that really imposibble magic.

11. Can make the clone strong as original.Morgan claim every mage can made clone equal to theirself. This is happening when she stood up from throne in section 24 and Avalon Le Fae synopsis mentioned of this: She stands up from her throne → Countless Morgan astral projections appear. Morgan's clone vanished because her real body sustained severe damage leaving her able to move only her left hand. How did this happen? Woodwose and a Knight attacked her while she's distracted by Baobhan Sith. They using her as a hostage in Section 24.
Avalon le Fae's synopsis made situation like how section 24 is happen : "However, this forces Morgan's hand and she stands up from her throne → Countless Morgan astral projections appear. She's as strong as a Faerie Knight. After setting the tone that you don't stand a chance against Morgan, the astral projections start disappearing one after the next.
Camera shifts to the throne.
Woodwose assassinates Morgan. Woodwose disintegrates before he can become Moss. Morgan is fatally wounded but not dead yet. As Morgan stood up in an attempt to return to the throne, Spriggan appeared with the captured hostage Baobhan Sith. Morgan gets impaled while she's distracted by Baobhan Sith. That seals the deal. She falls to the ground. The fae surround them from a distance, not knowing what to do next. That's when Aurora sends her voice through the wind, broadcasting to all corners of the British Isles.Queen Morgan's misdeeds."

12. Morgan throne have 2 fuction : keep fairies alive and designed to kill Cerunnos with 12 rhongomyniad.

13. Nasu interview mentioned during her time as Savior Tonelico he fought against Wryneck, previous leader of the Fang Clan, and Mab, Queen of the North. Both of opponents outclassed her most of the time, but she always won by a hair through her wisdom , guts and courage. Nasu diary mentioned during her time as Savior she really get outclased by Wryneck in order to decide end the battle she use extra Attack against him.
That was when she gave her all and it wasn't enough to beat him, so she gambled on her ability to guess his next move last effort hit. The damage to Wryneck was essentially equivalent to losing 1 Break Gauge, while Aesc was left at 1 HP and NP (Guts still not spent).However, seeing a weaker being overcome their difference in ability and fortuity with a miracle caused him to feel shocked for the first time, so he declared the fight a tie. Same diary mentioned Wryneck , A-Rays who have heat of Planet admit Savior Tonelico power.

14. Nasu mentioned Morgan is Genius above Castoria , Castoria mention Morgan is genius and greaters Avalon le fae in section 29. and Chaldean praised Morgan for understand tree of emptiness and use that for her benefit despite how the danger itself in Section 10. Beryl also considers Morgan a monstrous genius in Section 21 of Lostwill because she is capable of rayshifting herself and rewriting Britain's history in just a few hours.

15.During her time as Aesc Savior she understand how Tree of Fantasy is work in Section 19 . Accourding to Beryl she sucked seyfert inside dry in lostbelt 5.2 section 24 to the point tree of fantasy is death based morgan statement in lostbelt 6 section 21. Accourding to Da Vinci in lostbelt 6 section 18 the size of Britain tree of emptiness is huge compare to previous Lostbelt.

16. Accourding to TYPE-MOON ACE Vol. 14 - FGO Avalon le Fae ''Reminiscence'' Morgan made dimensional barrier with the size of Britain during High Queen Era in the A.D.1 . That Wall of Light is equal to Lion King. In order to survive one must be calm state in mind and need ship strong as Storm Border to enter it.Storm Border can be damaged by Divine Construct.

17. Have artifact named Garden of Lostwill. According to Artoria Caster in Section 21, it is a a cold and unforgiving Garden that whittles away the hearts of its visitors by stripping away their delusions and torturing them with self-loathing. The target can escape from it if they endure it until the end and Garden of Lostwill is the place where Merlin get prisoned. The target also can escape if get destroy it from outside. This is what Mashu doing to free Castoria and Ritsuka.

18. Can sealed Cerununnos. This is confimed by Oberon Vortigern in section 29 and Section 10 confirmed there barrier on side of the pit by Muramasa. Cerunonnos can curse entire planet in fraghtment 7 and Section 26 where first time Cerunnons will appeared chaldea made statement his gravity equal to U-Olga Blackhole.

19.She can also perform magical plastic surgery and erased the memory. Tonelico used this to create a decoy while she made her escape in section 19. Her stage 2 voice lined dialogue 3 confirmed she can transform you into the Jewel:"Master, you're my summoner, which basically makes you my commander, right? I'm counting on you. Although sometimes you're so dull to danger that I think I'm better off transforming you into a jewel and wearing you on me" or Worst turned you into the pig in level up 2: "Your pace is slowing. Shall I turn you into a pig?"

20. Can share the memory from 2000 years ago. This is happening in Section 12.
 
Last edited:
What is infinite recursion tiered as? I believe kingprotea fits the requirements. This could also strengthen roa's argument for the h1-b thread

  1. Class Skills
  2. ■ Huge Scale - EX
  3. A cheat skill that evolved from Self-Modification.
  4. There is no limit to how large she can get. Once the upper limit is reached, the upper limit is further increased. This is infinitely repeated. Basically infinite growth of infinite growth.
  5. Anywho, she's a planet destroying universe level disaster, but giant transformation makes her lose complex intelligence and function. This skill cannot bear common sense, so one completely self-destructs.
Click to expand...
 
  1. There is no limit to how large she can get. Once the upper limit is reached, the upper limit is further increased. This is infinitely repeated. Basically infinite growth of infinite growth.
Click to expand...
 
Marshadow29 said:
infinity by default, has no limits. Im not sure how that debunks anything.
Click to expand...
I mean, she indeed can grow to infinity, this is what the sentence is explaining. Nothing more, nothing less. Her growth has no end, because the upper limit will continue to increase each time she's close to it. There is no infinite recursions going on. Also, I don't see how that could help Roa at all tbf
 
Marshadow29 said:
it proves his argument about there being no upper limit to growth, and it talking about higher infinites, kingprotea is literally that concept personified as a character
Click to expand...
Still don't see the relevance. Also, aren't dimension in Nasuverse supposed to be based on R>F rather than strictly additional spatial axis?

Besides, no, Nasu never mentions higher infinities directly, it's just "us" that equate some aspect of his verse to it.
 
Btw, Ultima shouldn't take much longer to give his input on the High 1-B thread, I don't have an exact time, but it should be in the foreseeable future.
 
SweetDao said:
Still don't see the relevance. Also, aren't dimension in Nasuverse supposed to be based on R>F rather than strictly additional spatial axis?

Besides, no, Nasu never mentions higher infinities directly, it's just "us" that equate some aspect of his verse to it.
Click to expand...
Bro what? Tiamat literally has this

Screenshot_20210608-223554_FateGO.jpg

Doesn't look like R>F to me.
 
SweetDao said:
Still don't see the relevance. Also, aren't dimension in Nasuverse supposed to be based on R>F rather than strictly additional spatial axis?
Click to expand...
KIngprotea's upper limit continues on infinity, basically having none at all. Also , im not arguing a spatial axis.
SweetDao said:
Besides, no, Nasu never mentions higher infinities directly, it's just "us" that equate some aspect of his verse to it.
Click to expand...
iirc the concept of absoulte infinity is mentioned
 
Tdjwo said:
Bro what? Tiamat literally has this

Screenshot_20210608-223554_FateGO.jpg

Doesn't look like R>F to me.
Click to expand...
Yeah but like, isn't Tiamat the only case where it's explained as such? Like if we take Goetia for example, is it "higher infinity" or "R>F"?


Marshadow29 said:
KIngprotea's upper limit continues on infinity, basically having none at all. Also , im not arguing a spatial axis.
Click to expand...
Yeah I agree with that, she can grow to infinity, that much is logical.


Marshadow29 said:
iirc the concept of absoulte infinity is mentioned
Click to expand...
I personally don't know if it's the case, so I can't tell
 
KingNanaya said:
I believe it's allowed to be both
Click to expand...
No I'm not saying "it can't be both" but more like it's a genuine question regarding dimensionality. As far as I'm aware, Tiamat case is the only one to be explained like this, but again there might be more, so if Tdjwo or Marshadow can explain it/share it with it, I'll be thankful.
 
SweetDao said:
Yeah but like, isn't Tiamat the only case where it's explained as such? Like if we take Goetia for example, is it "higher infinity" or "R>F"?
Click to expand...
It's still mentioned. The mooncell is also explicitly stated to be 8D. Even without Rin's R>F statement, the 8D stuff exists. We have Avalon too. Even Gilgamesh's cloak of invisibility(5D) doesn't use R>F.
SweetDao said:
I personally don't know if it's the case, so I can't tell
Click to expand...
I think Marshadow is referring to this scan in KnK
main-qimg-6db986ac4ea554c09e7a50ea24996c78
 
Tdjwo said:
It's still mentioned. The mooncell is also explicitly stated to be 8D. Even without Rin's R>F statement, the 8D stuff exists. We have Avalon too. Even Gilgamesh's cloak of invisibility(5D) doesn't use R>F.
Click to expand...
Yeah, by all means, I'm not saying it's not mentioned. But like, isn't Rin's statement the crux of how dimensionality works in Nasuverse? When I check profile that are Low 1-C, it always comes down to Kiara/Moon Cell/BB, so if you remove it, doesn't it make the relationship between each dimension "unknown" then?


Tdjwo said:
I think Marshadow is referring to this scan in KnK
Click to expand...
Okay okay, I think I've seen it somewhere but thank you nonetheless.


Marshadow29 said:
are you looking for more cases of higher infinites directly relating to dimensionality? just wanna make 100% sure
Click to expand...
More like, when do you know for sure that "in this scene we talk about Higher infinities" and "in that scene we deal with R>F"

The whole thing with BB is R>F, I think we can agree on that, but for things like Goetia/Daemons in general, what is it? Divine spirit too?
 
SweetDao said:
Yeah, by all means, I'm not saying it's not mentioned. But like, isn't Rin's statement the crux of how dimensionality works in Nasuverse? When I check profile that are Low 1-C, it always comes down to Kiara/Moon Cell/BB, so if you remove it, doesn't it make the relationship between each dimension "unknown" then?
Click to expand...
I think it's logical to claim that the verse uses both. The Low 1C profiles do not come from BB/Mooncell. Instead, they come from Avalon which resides in the planet. That's why most characters from FGO are Low 1C. The 1C profiles are gotten from Mooncell
 
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