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Nasuverse Discussion Board (New Forum)

@Theoretical I am not sure why you have repeatedly become hostile in this thread, but my pointing out that "you'd make a poor translator" is not an insult in the fashion of the constant mockery you engage in whenever I attempt to discuss something here. I'm not going to allow that further, so I'd suggest you shape up and learn to cool down during a discussion or I'm simply going to threadban you.

SweetDao said:
I agree with Regidian, no matter the efforts put into the current discussion, only the staff thread really matters.
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I agree, but it can be helpful to work out certain discussions separately so that they do not clog the thread.
 
SweetDao said:
I think this place isn't the right one for petty fight. Deagonx has his views, you have too, it's normal that some idea clash, especially if Deagonx point of view is incompatible with the current rating of the verse (hence why he's "always" against the verse in your eyes)
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Where is the "petty fight?" Deagon's entire premise has always been based on biases. And it's a no Brainer he doesn't like the verse. It's known on discord as well. No matter how many evidences shown to him, he just disregards them and forces his objectively incorrect opinions. Can't count how many times we've had to deal with the same topic he brings up. It's not funny at all. Especially from someone who gets information from people rather than actually sitting down to watch/read the series before making debunks.
 
Deagonx said:
I'll ask: Which verses do you believe I am less strict towards than Nasuverse?
Click to expand...
I barely see you in any other verse that isn't Nasuverse. Literally everytime a Nasu crt comes up, regardless of how irrelevant it is, you always somehow make the thread unbearable. And you do this with Nasuverse mainly.

Not to mention, how you are ALWAYS the first staff to make a comment on Nasu threads and its so predictable what your comments are.
 
Tdjwo said:
Where is the "petty fight?" Deagon's entire premise has always been based on biases. And it's a no Brainerd he doesn't like the verse. It's known om discord as well. No matter how many evidences shown to him, he just disregards them and forces his objectively incorrect opinions. Can't count how many times we've had to deal with the same topic he brings up. It's not funny at all. Especially from someone who gets information from people rather than actually sitting down to watch/read the series before making debunks.
Click to expand...
What I meant by "petty fight" is how, no matter the Nasuverse conversation, there is an overwhelming atmosphere of "if you go against the crowd, there will be a witch hunt against you." You can check any thread regarding dimensionality of the verse (or similar aspect, so the Root falls into that too) and you'll see that discussion are heated more often than not.

Only time I've seen a Nasuverse CRT goes well was the recent one made by Nanaya regarding Thread manip (and it was so obvious that even a blind person would accept it)

Ultimately, if you give him arguments, and he doesn't think it's enough, he's not "discarding them", he's just not convinced by them. Even if he's "against the verse" (which I don't think personally) he's still only one staff out of at least a dozen of them (if not more), even if he always goes "I disagree" on Nasu thread, he's not going to alter the outcome if everyone else agree.

I'm personally against the High 1-B statement for example (I don't think I have a bias against the verse), and the "argument" given on the thread itself aren't enough to make me think it's legit while I'm sure Nasu supporter think it's enough and legitimate, but eventually, if staff agrees on it, then I'll accept it, since there isn't much I can do anyway tbf.
 
SweetDao said:
What I meant by "petty fight" is how, no matter the Nasuverse conversation, there is an overwhelming atmosphere of "if you go against the crowd, there will be a witch hunt against you." You can check any thread regarding dimensionality of the verse (or similar aspect, so the Root falls into that too) and you'll see that discussion are heated more often than not.

Only time I've seen a Nasuverse CRT goes well was the recent one made by Nanaya regarding Thread manip (and it was so obvious that even a blind person would accept it)

Ultimately, if you give him arguments, and he doesn't think it's enough, he's not "discarding them", he's just not convinced by them. Even if he's "against the verse" (which I don't think personally) he's still only one staff out of at least a dozen of them (if not more), even if he always goes "I disagree" on Nasu thread, he's not going to alter the outcome if everyone else agree.

I'm personally against the High 1-B statement for example (I don't think I have a bias against the verse), and the "argument" given on the thread itself aren't enough to make me think it's legit while I'm sure Nasu supporter think it's enough and legitimate, but eventually, if staff agrees on it, then I'll accept it, since there isn't much I can do anyway tbf.
Click to expand...
Is the argument for 1-B this statement from Roa?

`"Why reincarnation, anyway? It'd be a lot easier to prolong your own individual life, and more importantly, you wouldn't cause problems for anyone else.
Because if I did that, I'd eventually reach a limit. There is no upper bound to human perception――no end to the path toward omnipotence. No matter how transcendental you become, there will always be something that lies ahead."
Take, for example, a certain nun who suddenly turned up among the Burial Agency. Using the sabbath, she became a devil, and so obtained a sense for the higher dimensions, turning functionally almighty in ours. But even she is still bound by her material form――still bound to this universe. As for why―――"`

If so, this verse is doomed more than it already is. Literally one of the weakest pieces of evidence for hyperversal. I get the feeling people are trying to latch on to whatever since this site about to revise what counts as outerversal.
 
Violatas said:
Is the argument for 1-B this statement from Roa?
Click to expand...
It is. This is why I personally don't buy it. But eh, like Roa himself says, "there is no upper bound to human perception" so everyone sees the thing differently.

Also, it's for High 1-B, not just 1-B.
 
I planning to list Lostbelt/Servant version Morgan feat.

1. As Chaldea servant she can Rayshift herself and habetrot in Sea Monster Crisis and Da-Vinci is pissed and comment how she rayshift herself without her permission.

2. Section 10 Da Vinci confirmed Morgan weaponized form in her hand is equal to Lion King. Section 24 Da Vinci tell Ritsuka and other the power of Morgan is equal to Singalurity 6 and in order to avoid Morgan fired Rhongomyniad to them which destroy city they must enter castle. As Servant Morgan can use Rhongomyniad in the Illya Castle event.

3. In Summer event Morgan can make the rune which is hard to destroyed by Circe , Taigong Wang , Skadi and Medea in summer event. Only Merlin can do it but choose don't help Ritsuka and the others.

4. Can summon Knocknarea as servant due to her connection as Lostbelt King without chaldea help her.

5. Lostbelt King Morgan can use water mirror magic to made calamity dissapeared. As Chaldea servant in sea monster event she can use water mirror magic but refuse because the rule of PHH is different compare to her Lostbelt.

6. Castoria complain Morgan still strongest than her despite she complete her journey. Castoria lacks sufficient circuits to use twelve Rhongo's and trying to use them will destroy her body, in other words her body itself is incapable to sustain the energy of twelve Rhongo's. Castoria says she never come close to Morgan in strength or ability, and that she was given only a single more chance to show her worth for a single moment to her, something that required Castoria to sacrifice everything she had. Although in favor of Castoria, in retrospective she already was tired by the point of fighting Cernunnos so the fact that the remaining energy/strength she had was able to destroy 90% of Cernunnos is even more impressive, she would still be below Morgan.

7. Berly describe Morgan as super scary and have broken ability in section 14 and Section 24 Lostbelt 5.2 he said Morgan intended to destroy Olympus and her rhongomyniad for Alien God. Lostbelt 6.2 Section 21 Morgan will attack Greek Lostbelt who already cover entire planet. Rasputin order Muramasa to kill Morgan and destroy Rhongomyniad because that weapon can hurt U-Olga in last part of lostbelt 5.2 section 27 and Chaldea side mention Rhongomyniad have potential to beat Alien God.

Rhongomyniad is so powerful to the point can destroy complete version of tree of fantasy. Accourding to Wodime the only way who can destroyed is himself and Zeus due to his connection as Lostbelt King in section 23 Lostbelt 5.2 part 2.
However in beginning of lostbelt 5.2 Zeus admit to Rasputin and Limbo he can't do anything to tree of fantasy. What he could do is just destroy Alien God point of arrival the moment tree of fantasy is complete in Lostbelt 5.2 section 6.

8. Can fight against Six Bells Castoria , Percival , Super Mashu and Da Vinci.

Six Bell Castoria around Lostbelt King level. She can shield storm border from Dragon Melusine themic rays. Storm Border only can destroyed by Divine Construct Level. That ship first time appeared in lostbelt 5.2 and the only one who can destroyed is Zeus with his lightning equal to Artemis canon , who capable tear out the planet.

Percival is around Fairy Knight level section 3. Accourding to Woodwose in section 15 during the Tournament of Robins had Percival used Lost Longinus he can win against Fairy Knight Lancelot.

Super Mashu is around High tier class. This statement come from Da Vinci even Ritsuka agree with her in section 20 around 10:17:08-10:18:21. That mean Super Mashu pretty much strongest than her LB 5 which blessed by Athena Kinomelea , authority to increase combat ability and imbue the recipent with combat ability skill and can shield herself from Zeus Lightning and Buffed 300x by Romulus-Quarinus which can damage 35% Zeus in this state.

9. Can endure attack from Woodwose for 4 times and all of fairies around her throne can't stop him due to how strong his power. The latter capable to one shot Percival , Muramasa , Da Vinci , Ritsuka and 2 bell Castoria in section 15 around 29:50-30:21. Springgan and Oberon made statement Aurora can't beat Morgan only Woodwose can defeat Morgan in section 16. Section 21 Mashu made statement the power Woodwose is beyond Wyneck and Berly with the power of woodwose can made Super Mashu , 4 Bell Castoria and Ritsuka tired. Avalon le Fae synopsis describe Woodwose as Strongerst Warrior ,The same source claim Woodwose is stronger than all Tamlin even Morgan and Oberon knowledge him as Strongest individual in Britain to the point his attack bought Morgan to her demise because he fallen into Aurora trap. Knocknarea made statement fighting Woodwose is harder than three tam lin in section 15 around 50:28-50:30. Some people claim dying Woodwose is mauled Morgan but turn out section 23 there flashback about Springgan order Aurora trying to heal him and the latter order Coral to get mediciment in the town and Accourding to Nasu Blog after taking hit Morgan could dodge Woodwose attack but due to him already turning into the mors , a fairy who lose their name and purpose she decide endure his attack and kill him with Magic Dagger in his abdomen. After Woodwose is death Morgan realise the one who set him to her is Spriggan.

Get slashed behind Two Knight when she let her guardown due to Springgan holding Baobhan Sith as Hostage.Section 25 around 44:10-45:01 show the same knight kill Cnoc Na Rea Fairy Knight.

Weakened Morgan also enduring the attack of Fairies to the point they surprised at how long it took for her to die. Faeries is above Human to the point Da Vinci said Most of Fairy including Mike is above Basic Castoria but the latter is above human in section 3 around 2:52:24-2:53:18 and Tristan said demonic britain beast is nothing compare to Round of Table but admit fairies is above him in section 2 salisbury. He also knowledge Fairies is too powerful for human during him and Ritsuka still lose their memory and really doubt about him and Regular Castoria beat the guard in section 1. Section 3 claim after Ritsuka and the others defeated one of Morgan's ordinary knights, Da Vinci admitted that the knight is strong for them. They attempted to fight three of them, but it proved to be too much. Generally, the Round Table Army has to outnumber the knights and use Mors Poison and numbers to defeat them. According to Tristan, in terms of individual strength, fairies are stronger than human. Section 26 Da Vinci also said Fairies power is strongest than human.

10. Melusine stated Morgan is the only being in Fae Britain along with Calamity Barguest, who called Cath Palug equal able to face her full power. Oberon state that he had no means of defeating Morgan, his profile stated he needed to give everything to kill Morgan and end by genuinely showing respect for her. Oberon Vortigern profile mentioned he was thwarted twice by her during high queen era, which led to the creation of "Oberon" as the third attemp. Goldolf also state before learning Morgan have 12 Rhongomyniad one of Rhongomyniad and her water mirror made her comparable to previous lostbelt king. Castoria also state Morgan magical energy exceed her tam lin knight. Accourding to ordinary Fairy Morgan power can cover britain itself. Section 19 there statement Morgan take down all six clans and Section 24 mentioned same statement again.

11. Although BB create singularity Morgan can maintain itself. Accourding to Artoria Avalon that really imposibble magic.

12. Can make the clone strong as original.

13. People mention without the throne Morgan is weak or that what made her so powerful. The truth in Section 25 Knocknarea mention the reason why Morgan don't leave her throne is because that thing is the one who keep fairies alive. That why Morgan feel desperate back to throne and has Knocnarea in section 25 don't get poisoned she will mention what the reason Britain still exist. Section 10 mention that throne is designed for to destroy Great Calamity and Section 20 mention the same thing. Section 26 give explanation about the throne is fuction to use 12 Rhongomyniad to destroy Cernunos and Section 29 mentioned again about Morgan throne to fire all of 12 Rhongomyniad to Cernunos. Section 10 mentioned Morgan waiting for Cernunos appeared and have concern voice due to him not appeared.

14. Section 23 Morgan state she complete her pilgrimage to many times and Castoria is fooling enough to match her with only one pilgrimage. Section 24 Morgan made same statement again. If you level up Morgan to 4rd ascension her power as servant is 1/3 compare to her lostbelt king level. Castoria profile admit in term of magical energy morgan is higher than her.

15. Nasu interview mentioned during her time as Savior Tonelico he fought against Wryneck, previous leader of the Fang Clan, and Mab, Queen of the North. Both of opponents outclassed her most of the time, but she always won by a hair through her wisdom , guts and courage. Nasu diary mentioned during her time as Savior she really get outclased by Wryneck in order to decide end the battle she use extra Attack against him.
That was when she gave her all and it wasn't enough to beat him, so she gambled on her ability to guess his next move last effort hit. The damage to Wryneck was essentially equivalent to losing 1 Break Gauge, while Aesc was left at 1 HP and NP (Guts still not spent).However, seeing a weaker being overcome their difference in ability and fortuity with a miracle caused him to feel shocked for the first time, so he declared the fight a tie. Same diary mentioned Wryneck , A-Rays who have heat of Planet admit Savior Tonelico power.

16. Nasu mentioned Morgan is Genius above Castoria , Castoria mention Morgan is genius and greaters Avalon le fae in section 29. and Goetia praised Morgan for understand tree of emptiness and use that for her benefit despite how the danger itself in Section 10. Beryl also considers Morgan a monstrous genius in Section 21 of Lostwill because she is capable of rayshifting herself and rewriting Britain's history in just a few hours.

17.During her time as Aesc Savior she understand how Tree of Fantasy is work in Section 19 . Accourding to Beryl she sucked seyfert inside dry in lostbelt 5.2 section 24 to the point tree of fantasy is death based morgan statement in lostbelt 6 section 21. Accourding to Da Vinci in lostbelt 6 section 18 the size of Britain tree of emptiness is huge compare to previous Lostbelt.
 
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What is infinite recursion tiered as? I believe kingprotea fits the requirements. This could also strengthen roa's argument for the h1-b thread

  1. Class Skills
  2. ■ Huge Scale - EX
  3. A cheat skill that evolved from Self-Modification.
  4. There is no limit to how large she can get. Once the upper limit is reached, the upper limit is further increased. This is infinitely repeated. Basically infinite growth of infinite growth.
  5. Anywho, she's a planet destroying universe level disaster, but giant transformation makes her lose complex intelligence and function. This skill cannot bear common sense, so one completely self-destructs.
Click to expand...
 
  1. There is no limit to how large she can get. Once the upper limit is reached, the upper limit is further increased. This is infinitely repeated. Basically infinite growth of infinite growth.
Click to expand...
 
Marshadow29 said:
infinity by default, has no limits. Im not sure how that debunks anything.
Click to expand...
I mean, she indeed can grow to infinity, this is what the sentence is explaining. Nothing more, nothing less. Her growth has no end, because the upper limit will continue to increase each time she's close to it. There is no infinite recursions going on. Also, I don't see how that could help Roa at all tbf
 
Marshadow29 said:
it proves his argument about there being no upper limit to growth, and it talking about higher infinites, kingprotea is literally that concept personified as a character
Click to expand...
Still don't see the relevance. Also, aren't dimension in Nasuverse supposed to be based on R>F rather than strictly additional spatial axis?

Besides, no, Nasu never mentions higher infinities directly, it's just "us" that equate some aspect of his verse to it.
 
Btw, Ultima shouldn't take much longer to give his input on the High 1-B thread, I don't have an exact time, but it should be in the foreseeable future.
 
SweetDao said:
Still don't see the relevance. Also, aren't dimension in Nasuverse supposed to be based on R>F rather than strictly additional spatial axis?

Besides, no, Nasu never mentions higher infinities directly, it's just "us" that equate some aspect of his verse to it.
Click to expand...
Bro what? Tiamat literally has this

Screenshot_20210608-223554_FateGO.jpg

Doesn't look like R>F to me.
 
SweetDao said:
Still don't see the relevance. Also, aren't dimension in Nasuverse supposed to be based on R>F rather than strictly additional spatial axis?
Click to expand...
KIngprotea's upper limit continues on infinity, basically having none at all. Also , im not arguing a spatial axis.
SweetDao said:
Besides, no, Nasu never mentions higher infinities directly, it's just "us" that equate some aspect of his verse to it.
Click to expand...
iirc the concept of absoulte infinity is mentioned
 
Tdjwo said:
Bro what? Tiamat literally has this

Screenshot_20210608-223554_FateGO.jpg

Doesn't look like R>F to me.
Click to expand...
Yeah but like, isn't Tiamat the only case where it's explained as such? Like if we take Goetia for example, is it "higher infinity" or "R>F"?


Marshadow29 said:
KIngprotea's upper limit continues on infinity, basically having none at all. Also , im not arguing a spatial axis.
Click to expand...
Yeah I agree with that, she can grow to infinity, that much is logical.


Marshadow29 said:
iirc the concept of absoulte infinity is mentioned
Click to expand...
I personally don't know if it's the case, so I can't tell
 
KingNanaya said:
I believe it's allowed to be both
Click to expand...
No I'm not saying "it can't be both" but more like it's a genuine question regarding dimensionality. As far as I'm aware, Tiamat case is the only one to be explained like this, but again there might be more, so if Tdjwo or Marshadow can explain it/share it with it, I'll be thankful.
 
SweetDao said:
Yeah but like, isn't Tiamat the only case where it's explained as such? Like if we take Goetia for example, is it "higher infinity" or "R>F"?
Click to expand...
It's still mentioned. The mooncell is also explicitly stated to be 8D. Even without Rin's R>F statement, the 8D stuff exists. We have Avalon too. Even Gilgamesh's cloak of invisibility(5D) doesn't use R>F.
SweetDao said:
I personally don't know if it's the case, so I can't tell
Click to expand...
I think Marshadow is referring to this scan in KnK
main-qimg-6db986ac4ea554c09e7a50ea24996c78
 
Tdjwo said:
It's still mentioned. The mooncell is also explicitly stated to be 8D. Even without Rin's R>F statement, the 8D stuff exists. We have Avalon too. Even Gilgamesh's cloak of invisibility(5D) doesn't use R>F.
Click to expand...
Yeah, by all means, I'm not saying it's not mentioned. But like, isn't Rin's statement the crux of how dimensionality works in Nasuverse? When I check profile that are Low 1-C, it always comes down to Kiara/Moon Cell/BB, so if you remove it, doesn't it make the relationship between each dimension "unknown" then?


Tdjwo said:
I think Marshadow is referring to this scan in KnK
Click to expand...
Okay okay, I think I've seen it somewhere but thank you nonetheless.


Marshadow29 said:
are you looking for more cases of higher infinites directly relating to dimensionality? just wanna make 100% sure
Click to expand...
More like, when do you know for sure that "in this scene we talk about Higher infinities" and "in that scene we deal with R>F"

The whole thing with BB is R>F, I think we can agree on that, but for things like Goetia/Daemons in general, what is it? Divine spirit too?
 
SweetDao said:
Yeah, by all means, I'm not saying it's not mentioned. But like, isn't Rin's statement the crux of how dimensionality works in Nasuverse? When I check profile that are Low 1-C, it always comes down to Kiara/Moon Cell/BB, so if you remove it, doesn't it make the relationship between each dimension "unknown" then?
Click to expand...
I think it's logical to claim that the verse uses both. The Low 1C profiles do not come from BB/Mooncell. Instead, they come from Avalon which resides in the planet. That's why most characters from FGO are Low 1C. The 1C profiles are gotten from Mooncell
 
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