-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Nasuverse Discussion Board (New Forum)
- Thread starter DemonGodMitchAubin
- Start date
- 4,059
- 1,713
why...WHY ISN'T TSUMAGARI MURMASA AN EX RANK ANTI WORLD NOBLE PHANTASM!!! SCREW DW THEY HATE SHIROU!!
- 15,920
- 2,693
Sadly, that looks very unlikely, considering not even Fate/Stay Night kept them on its remake, and the sex scenes in HF are so important even the anime kept them.
- 12,828
- 3,995
this is what being gay does to me.
- 316
- 62
I think i should elaborate that so people aint wanking Ibuki Doji. Im not disagree with you just explain some things
Ibuki Ability as Divine spirit is only estimated on par to olympian Gods not stronger than them (i think its something like Karna being on par with Gilgamesh/Arjuna being on par with Karna i.e. they're in the same league).
Only that pressure ability of Ibuki being compared to that of Zeus, not her power level or mana output. And we haven't even seen Zeus at his peak, cause he used only around 35% of his functions in his last battle. And he capable of using the same pressure as Ibuki with only 10% of his power. It's also stated that Ibuki's energy accumulation resembles the Holy Grail, and for reference, compared to Poseidon, for example, who has an amount of magical energy on the level of four Holy Grails. And then there are battle ships like Zeus and Ares who are even greater than that.
- 39,653
- 15,560
I see, now that more understandable
And since you are here i want to ask:
1. Does Ibuki counted as strongest Saber Servant after Arthur and Musashi?
2. It is true that the version of Ibuki we summoned is her LB version?
3. Not related to Ibuki but do you think Dioscuri is a top tier Saber Servant like Ibuki, Arthur, and Musashi?
- 4,325
- 732
For the pressure yes it was compared to the zeus we know but it's was the first pressure if ibuki that was compared ans it was the weaker of the four she do, and they tell each time that the pressure was bigger and more powerful each time.
For amount of magical energie we know that the energies of ibuki is more bigger than all the god that douman had absorbed (some people tell me that he had absorbed hades too before his death don't know if true) and we know that energie was enough to transform and eveil the tree of douman to made it comparable to the lb 5.5 tree. It's a bigger feat that what have do poseidon. (When we know that arjuna alter that have absorbed a tree more weaker than lb5.5 had tell that the amount of magical energie was bigger than the first big god he absorbed)
And we never see Ibuki has her peak too like she have just played with us and if we compare of what we have do with the god of olympus (being able to fight them) what we was able to do with ibuki (litteraly nothing just her pression was able to destroy all the people present), we alredy see a difference. (Talk for the god of Olympus not zeus or ares)
John985
He/Him- 3,491
- 561
【追記・更新】【期間限定】「復刻:セイバーウォーズ２ ～始まりの宇宙へ～ ライト版」開催！ | Fate/Grand Order 公式サイト
TYPE-MOONが贈る、新たな「Fate」RPG。「Fate/Grand Order」公式サイト
news.fate-go.jp
SQ safe.....
- 316
- 62
The mana pressure being compared to Zeus is not about its power, but its the same ability that Zeus use. Guda said "wow i've experienced this before in Olympus" not "this power is on par with Zeus".
Well, thats not it. Alien God gave Douman ability to nurture Fantasy Tree as one of its apostle and Douman use 8 servants soul to make it fully bloomed akin to How you need sacrifice other servants in HGW.
Also we don't really know if the Heian Kyo tree comparable to Olympus tree. The tree were bloomed but the cost was only a grail while Poseidon himself have power comparable to 4 Grail but atleast the Heian Tree are enough to create a vessel to create a new alien God, though its not as strong as real one as even the real one said her vessel being weak.
Also it doesnt matter even if Ibuki mana is higher than the Gods that Douman Absorbs, its still on the level of one grail
Douman:
"This humble monk shall here —"
"Once again! Aah! With unending loyalty and love!"
"Fabricate forth a vessel that befits the God of an Alien Star!"
Danzou:
"That a gedou such as you ... could even speak of loyalty and forth."
"If that's a joke ... it's a poor one, Limbo!"
Douman:
"What are you saying, wooden marionette? This humble monk bears unto the God of an Alien Star nothing in the way of doubts, nor an intent to betray."
"Ee, ee. Not even once has this Douman considered such a thing!"
He falls silent for a moment, and then smiles with tranquility.
"Merely — I bore a wish."
"This humble monk bore within him a wish."
"A vessel for a God. This humble monk is capable of fabricating such a thing unto completion."
"Indeed, so long as the Subspecies Tree of Fantasy that encompasses within it a Holy Grail comes to bloom —"
"In other words, aah, it becomes as possible that this humble monk might be capable of fabricating a completed vessel for a God of an Alien Star!"
"A completed vessel that is as a God of the same faculties (機能, kinou, "functionality") and nature (属性, zokusei, "attribute / affinity") as the God of an Alien Star what manifested as of Olympus."
Guda:
"By the blooming of the Subspecies Tree of Fantasy, you intend on creating yet another God of an Alien Star ... ?"
Douman:
"Indeed. Though, it would be as a vessel."
"Even that it's only a vessel, if it arrives upon a truly completed form, let that there would within this inhabit a meaning (意味, imi)."
"A vessel, unto a God."
"A falsehood, unto truth."
"That being the case ... wouldn't it be fine, then?"
"Wouldn't it fine, even that it's a God of an Alien Star that exists for this humble monk alone?"
"Ee, ee, this humble monk arrived at such a thought!"
"Luckily, it would appear that this Singularity is whatever reason not of interest to the God of an Alien Star! Thus!"
"As of Hi no Moto! Yet another!"
"This humble monk might per his preference create a God of an Alien Star!"
"Nnnnnn, how elegant; how rational; how as of the royal road!"
Ibuki in her peak would be Yamata no Orochi since she is Orochi's bunrei being bunrei means she is close to the real one. And of course Lostbelt King Ibuki is far stronger than her Servant counterpart.
- 4,059
- 1,713
Which is the most powerful authority in fate till now??
- 316
- 62
1. I don't know why Musashi is so high, she is just good at CQC and Duel (she is top servants when it comes to 1v1), her overall ability isnt that much when fighting against Authority and Lostbelt Kings. Arthur being stronger than Ibuki is because his Sword. We can't really compare both.
2. IMO yeah, though she is heavily influenced by modern era.
3. Dioscuri is definitely a Top Servant.
Last edited:
- 39,653
- 15,560
1. Then who you thought to be strongest saber aside Ibuki and Arthur? Iirc Musashi being strongest saber was from my knowledge about her feats she done from Shimosa to Olympus, and SkILl
3. Tell me more then from why and how, and does they comparable to the othet top tier servants
- 4,325
- 732
Where it tell that it's alien gid that give douman the ability to nourish tree? The using 8 servant was what he needed in first and but after he decide to nourish it too more powerful being (like his general and after himself with all his god) to let it be more powerful.
And it tell nowhere that the cost one a graal it tell just that it encompass a graal , the graal was just one a the necessity for let it blossom since needed to invoc servant.
And you can't compare to power of the alien god with the vessel since we don't know what determine it's power. The vessel being weak can just been because the thing used is based on a human (olga) when lb 5.5 was based on douman as a vessel.
And no for that don't remember that compared to grail as do something with power (and poseidon was not compared to had 4 grail but had 4 core that was comparable to 4 grail and don't tell to have the same quantity of mana but that the core are like 4 graal in function), ibuki as better feat when as quantity in magic when we compare it with posseidon (except just the a he have 4 and her tell to be one) and like i have tell the mana of ibuki> the mana of the first god that arjuna alter had absorbed who was one of the top god of his mythologies.
And we can't tell that arthur will be more powerful because of excalibur since kusanagi is a sword tell to really be powerful (the np of ibuki being the slightest thing it can do) and that muramasa had made is final sword based on kusanagi too
- 316
- 62
That our difference, i read it while you heard it. The 8 servants that Douman sacrifice are 3 Divine spirit ( Itzpapalot, Chernobog, and Ibuki) and 5 Heroic Spirit ( Heian Kyo HGW) he used Heian Kyo HGW to make the Tree bloom by nurture it with the Ability he gained from Alien God.
Douman:
"This be one amongst the techniques bestowed by Satan Becometh As Lucifero — the God of an Alien Star what once summoned this humble monk —"
"For the Tree of Fantasy, a Ritual of Nurturing (生育の儀, sei'iki no gi)!"
----
It is cost one grail, in Normal HGW you need sacrifice other servants to make the Grail manifest, and thats what's Douman did in Heian Kyo.
----
Douman:
"Why!?"
"This humble monk has entirety adhered to protocol!"
"Eight souls have been sacrificed to the Grail, and so consumed ... !"
"Five Heroic Spirits, inclusive of this humble monk himself; and further yet, two Divine Spirits of foreign lands, and one of Hi no Moto!"
"The final Divine Spirit to come was as a malevolent god borne of an aspect in the capacity of a Dragon of Calamity!"
"Would that not be the finest sacrifice, befitting the standing of a Beast that be as the manifestation of the Evils of Man!?"
"Why, why, why — !?"
----
The power of Itzpapalot and Chernobog in Douman body are nowhere stated to be something high or special, Olympian Gods are obviously stronger than them and Ibuki is compared to them.
Of course the fact that each Poseidon core have power comparable to a grail makes it great. If you argue that one grail can be higher than 4 grail then i could argue that each grail that Poseidon posses are more powerfull than Ibuki.
The first God that Arjuna Alter absorbs is Krishna, an Avatar of Vishnu. Krishna's power is said to be almost at the level of AAS. Yeah, The tree in India is comparable to AAS and tree in Heian Kyo are nowhere stated to be close to that. The tree in there is weird probably its because Douman forcibly the Tree to bloom with a grail.
You're kidding, Excalibur that Arthur wield is stated to be the strongest sword in the Planet.
- 4,325
- 732
Ibuki was never stated to being comaprable to them (the two divine spirit of douman if you talk about them)
The tree in Heian Kyo is directly stated at be comparable to LB 5 because that was the only two to have enough man for give birth to an vessel for alien god, so why he would be weaker than the LB4 who have not let that condition?
Excalibur that arturia and arthur* and don't change that he can't use like practically all of his power because seal and that the fact that the true power of Excalibur is shown when confronting Threat to the planet.
And the sword kusanagi was able to cut down the tree something that was practically tell to be impossible in earlier lostbelt (only thing we know to be really powerful was able to do that)
- 4,325
- 732
And he was already able to make blossom the tree without ibuki(since she was here to become alien god before his change in mood), she just gave really more mana to in.
And yeah having more grail doesn't make you more powerful, we doesn't even know if grail have limit to how much mana he can contains (except if you tell poseidon>Tiamat because she tell to have only one grail too or even Zeus because he don't tel to have more grail in him)
(It's 1 am for le so need to sleep but you can continue to talk it in private if you want, will answer tomorrow)
And yeah having more grail doesn't make you more powerful, we doesn't even know if grail have limit to how much mana he can contains (except if you tell poseidon>Tiamat because she tell to have only one grail too or even Zeus because he don't tel to have more grail in him)
(It's 1 am for le so need to sleep but you can continue to talk it in private if you want, will answer tomorrow)
Last edited:
- 938
- 355
Okay, i'm officially saving for Muramasa
The final sword, capable of cutting through destiny itself, being a bare blade, without any type of ''additions''/''vanity'', not even a handle, edge/back notch or ''proper'' tang, is ******* beautiful
Last edited:
- 316
- 62
The tree in Heian Kyo is capable to replicate the vessel of Alien God like in LB 5 but nowhere stated its comparable to the tree in there. Even if it is, the tree is stated to have way more mana than Ibuki.
Oh thats False Equivalent. Tiamat's power isnt comparable to one grail, she has one grail not comparable to it. And Poseidon, Ibuki, Zeus etc they doesnt have Grail, their power just being compared to grail. If Ibuki's power is higher than The tree in India you're basically saying she is stronger than Goetia and his whole plan. Goetia have 7 grail, and thats still not enough to fullfill his plan, what's one grail can do? And you have to proof that one grail can be more powerful than 2 grail thats your burden. (Not greater grail okay, their power is stated comparable to grail not greater grail, so far we never meet one except in that Apocrypha event.)
Cutting down the tree isn't big deal at all. Rama's Brahmastra cut it down and the same NP can't even scratch Arjuna Alter. (I bet Rama can kill Douman along his tree since after absorbs the tree Douman evolved into A Raksasa King and so is Ravana LOL)
- 39,653
- 15,560
@Makenai Waiting for your answer lel
- 316
- 62
1. Its hard though. Mushasi is definitely one of the strongest, aside that its probably Sigurd or Rama with Vishnu Bhuja, but Rama with Vishnu Bhuja is pretty featless, he even didnt used it in LB 4.
3. Simple, their power is comparable to Apollo despite being killed by Kirsch and degraded into Divine Spirit.
Also For @Regidian i forgot about this but Fantasy Tree bloom doesnt mean their power is comparable to each other. In fact, the tree we see in LB 3 and 4 were also bloom. I think the only way to measure the power of LB Tree is by specific statement or how much the Tree's root covered the planet, so far Magellan was still the largest tree on entire Lostbelt as its root covered most of earth (the tree in LB 7 is gone, FK what's happen there)
- 4,325
- 732
For it's stated to have more mana than ibuki after he absorbe ibuki not before
Poseidon itls not he's power that was comparable to graal it's was the favt that is four core was like four grail (caenis litteraly pick one after for herself so) (for the tiamat you tell yourself that having more grail should give you more power/mana so you still tel that poseidon>tiamat)
I don't tell power if ibuki is higher but her mana is higher, the rama that have cut it down was the alive one no? (And logic that it will not do much to arjuna alter since the mana that the tree give him was just equivalent to the first god he absorbed)
He become a raksasa king just because he don't have the requirement for beast but he tell to still the same quantity of mana if i remember
- 316
- 62
Yes, after the tree absorbs Ibuki then the tree could replicate the vessel of alien God.
Read dude i've answered that.
The tree in India is comparable to AAS. Krishna power is said to be similar to AAS just AAS is more greater. We're talking about Rama cut down the tree in LB 4 dude.
Yes, i believe Rama Could Kill Raksasa King Douman with his Beahmastra.
Anyway seems like everything you know is based on what you heard not read.
- 4,325
- 732
For ibuki don't have contradict since it what i tell, that it's her that have made the tree like that
Why you talk about heard? Never tell except one time, i have litteraly all the screen and play myself to traduct most of the LB, you not really answered, you litteraly tell that posseidon was tell to have power like 4 grail when it's was just his core that was tell to function like 4 grail.
The tree being tell to be comparable to ASS doesn't change that he was tell to be comparable to the first god arjuna alter absorbed, you litteraly okay to tell rama should be comparable to ASS cuz he cut the tree (so for you rama>poseidon since he cut something's comparable to 7 grail ), but not because but not ibuki even when her mana was what made the tree of lb5.5 be enough to had a vessel of alien god (when lb4 don't mention that the tree was able to do hat) and that her sword was what destroy the tree.
Why you talk about heard? Never tell except one time, i have litteraly all the screen and play myself to traduct most of the LB, you not really answered, you litteraly tell that posseidon was tell to have power like 4 grail when it's was just his core that was tell to function like 4 grail.
The tree being tell to be comparable to ASS doesn't change that he was tell to be comparable to the first god arjuna alter absorbed, you litteraly okay to tell rama should be comparable to ASS cuz he cut the tree (so for you rama>poseidon since he cut something's comparable to 7 grail ), but not because but not ibuki even when her mana was what made the tree of lb5.5 be enough to had a vessel of alien god (when lb4 don't mention that the tree was able to do hat) and that her sword was what destroy the tree.
Last edited:
- 39,653
- 15,560
1. Rama without Vishnu Bhuja are nowhere the best tbh, even if he has it there is a chance that he forgot some of its weaponry (based from my memories in his interlude, correct me if i'm wrong here, as for Sigurd honestly i rank him around Siegfried and Artoria level, keep in mind the best feats he done in LB2 was from Surtr-Sigurd and not by himself
3. And how far we know about Apollo?
- 316
- 62
Why i feel like i'm talking to a 9 year old kid. *Sigh
I know each Poseidon's core is comparable to grail i mean damn it dude Tiamat's power isnt comparable to one grail, she has one grail not comparable to it. And Poseidon, Ibuki, Zeus etc they doesnt have Grail, their power just being compared to grail. If Ibuki's power is higher than The tree in India you're basically saying she is stronger than Goetia and his whole plan. Goetia have 7 grail, and thats still not enough to fullfill his plan, what's one grail can do? And you have to proof that one grail can be more powerful than 2 grail thats your burden. (Not greater grail okay, their power is stated comparable to grail not greater grail, so far we never meet one except in that Apocrypha event.)
You don't have to be stronger than tree to cut it down.
Nowhere its stated that the tree in India and China couldn't create a vessel to Alien God. Douman is just know the ritual and protocol to create the vessel as he was one of its apostle.
Fantasy Tree bloom doesnt mean their power is comparable to each other. In fact, the tree we see in LB 3 and 4 were also bloom. I think the only way to measure the power of LB Tree is by specific statement or how much the Tree's root covered the planet, so far Magellan was still the largest tree on entire Lostbelt as its root covered most of earth.
Do you really read it? Your knowledge seems messy
- 4,325
- 732
Don't worry i feel the same too all of your argument is based on the number of grail with a thing that was just tell to have his core function like them as far as i remember.
"Krishna's power is said to be almost at the level of AAS. Yeah, The tree in India is comparable to AAS" (do you have the link/screen of that feat?)
And like i tell it's not the power of Poseidon that it's compared to 4 grail so why you talk power for him? (and zeus was not compared to any grail as far as i remember)
And not tell she have more power but can have more mana. The LB4 tree getting absorbed is just compared to krishna the avatar of one if the most powerful god in his mythologies and ibuki is the avatar of one of the most powerful being in her mythology too (and with Amaterasu we know that japanse top god are powerful)
Nowhere it's stated that they could too, we have just LB5 who should be the best of them and then LB5.5 who could do it
Grail don't have even all the same amount of power or mana so why have more of it would let you be more powerful? ( And like i tell poseidon was never tell to have power comparable 4 grail just that his core act like it),
The tree of LB4 have litteraly blossom because douman let him blossom.
And the LB3 tree was because of all the mana he gathered since the beginning and hinako getting absorbed, so really don't change a thing of what i tell since they need a certain amount of mana for blossom lol (and the recovering of the planet by the tree is do with time not because power)
And rama have cut a weakened Tree when kusanagi no so can't even be a counter argument since in lb5.5 it was in full capacity.
You have to be enough powerful to cut the tree litteraly tell and show in LB1 bruh
And for tree we have the statement of them containing Galaxies and them being the thing that maintain the lostbelt to not crumble (we have the LB 3 tree who was able to "fight" with QSH etc)
"Krishna's power is said to be almost at the level of AAS. Yeah, The tree in India is comparable to AAS" (do you have the link/screen of that feat?)
And like i tell it's not the power of Poseidon that it's compared to 4 grail so why you talk power for him? (and zeus was not compared to any grail as far as i remember)
And not tell she have more power but can have more mana. The LB4 tree getting absorbed is just compared to krishna the avatar of one if the most powerful god in his mythologies and ibuki is the avatar of one of the most powerful being in her mythology too (and with Amaterasu we know that japanse top god are powerful)
Nowhere it's stated that they could too, we have just LB5 who should be the best of them and then LB5.5 who could do it
Grail don't have even all the same amount of power or mana so why have more of it would let you be more powerful? ( And like i tell poseidon was never tell to have power comparable 4 grail just that his core act like it),
The tree of LB4 have litteraly blossom because douman let him blossom.
And the LB3 tree was because of all the mana he gathered since the beginning and hinako getting absorbed, so really don't change a thing of what i tell since they need a certain amount of mana for blossom lol (and the recovering of the planet by the tree is do with time not because power)
And rama have cut a weakened Tree when kusanagi no so can't even be a counter argument since in lb5.5 it was in full capacity.
You have to be enough powerful to cut the tree litteraly tell and show in LB1 bruh
And for tree we have the statement of them containing Galaxies and them being the thing that maintain the lostbelt to not crumble (we have the LB 3 tree who was able to "fight" with QSH etc)
Last edited:
- 316
- 62
Oh my really, do you understand what i'm sayin?
Yes, Poseidon's core are comparable to Grail, holy **** how much i have to repeated this?
Zeus is not compared to grail then he is weaker than Poseidon? Okay, now thats really 9 year old logic.
Yes and? Rama is a mere servant in LB 4 while Ibuki is the Lostbelt King candidate in there.
And nowhere its stated that heian tree is comparable to Magellan, and guess who replicate the vessel? Douman, the Apostle of Alien God, of course he know how to replicate it.
Yes, and does lostbelt king looks weak to you? Surtr, Zeus, Arjuna, could easily cut down the tree and of course Arthur Excalibur could also do that.
Yes, and Heian tree also blossom due to Douman intervention. So what's your point?
Rama is just a servant, and he literally weakened in last battle until Arjuna was defeated and his curse is Gone. You need Lostbelt King Class servants to cut it down.
Chapter 19
- 39,653
- 15,560
Makenai please don't throw the accution of "9 year old kids argument" thing, made it civil as possible
- 4,325
- 732
You really need to read what i tell, having four core function like grail=/= having same power/mana than four grail, seriouly it's like 10 time i tell that, why you still talk about power?
Tell me when i tell that zeus was weaker because not compared to grail? Do you even understand what i write.
Why the **** you talk about rama being a mere servant when i talk about ibuki and kirshna??? Like i tell he have just cut the tree because it was weakened.
He don't have replicate the vessel, he have created a new one, and since for now the only one that was able to do that is the better one, no reason to not compare them except if they give a explanation for this
I don't even know if your troll or not, your the one that have tell that you don't need to be powerful to cut the tree and not you tell that ? (And your arthur thing is a headcanon for now so pls stop)
My point is your argument that it blossom because douman so less powerful that the other is not valide. Same for the recover of the earth since it just based for how much time they had blossom.
Well thx for the link so it's even better because they don't talk about only LB 4 tree but all the tree, so except is tell after that lb5.5 tree is not like that it should have the same thing. (And the mana output is not compared to ASS but Goetia for what i see)
"Orochi. Sombrero. Mayall. And now, Spiral. As I thought, they are all named galaxies.)
(Perhaps they’re invasive weapons from other celestial bodies? But even then, what purpose do they serve?)
(The mana output alone is similar to Goetia’s, and the heat it’s producing could incinerate the Earth’s surface.)"
- 226
- 64
- 4,325
- 732
I don't really understand too it's like he just understand what he want to understand
Last edited:
- 39,653
- 15,560
- 39,653
- 15,560
For more context and addition/detail:
1. Forgot to add that he has a feat in SW2 event too and this time its by himself, dunno if this is kind of impressive (i also need to remember what feat he done there too)
3. And where it stated that they're comparable to Apollo? Since i don't remember either in the chapter and in the original myth, and even with that their best feat in Olympus was nowhere impressive since they were treated just a mobs, dunno in their interlude
- 938
- 355
In the way VS Battles interprets it, it's more like cutting fate/destiny than cutting causality
''That is to say, to free one of one's karma/fate.'', as his NP chant goes
But it's still questionable if it's purple prose or if he cna actually ''cut'' it
Last edited:
- 316
- 62
Define it, what's different between function like a grail and comparable to grail. Even Ibuki is stated to be just "her power of gathering mana is resembles a grail".
Of course thats not headcanon, do ask everyone here "can Arthur's Excalibur Cut the tree down?" If you think he can't then give me the reason.
I don't get it, mind to organize your sentence? If you mean that Douman in other LB isnt as powerful as his true body then you're wrong, Douman doesnt have to transfer his power to the tree, as i said the Heian Kyo tree is weird, it isnt suppossed to blossom, but Douman force to bloom it with
Holy Grail. Power of tree can only be measures by statement and how much the tree's root covered the earth.
.
Lol no, read the context don't be too lazy to read
You cant even tell what's Holmes doing here? OMG i don't know how to explain this to you but Holmes didnt talking about the output of all fantasy tree, he just trying to figure out their origin, and the Mana output is specifically for LB4 tree not all tree.
Tell me, what's AAS? What's its function? The heat of AAS alone can incinerate earth surface so he obviouly talking about AAS and you don't even know this LOL.
- 39,653
- 15,560
