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Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

Y'all are acting like things that are extremely debatable and controversial are some irrefutable objective truth when they're really not.

An objective fact would be something like "Orochimaru is a class above Part I Kakashi" or "Hashirama defeated Madara at the Final Valley". Those are objective truths, which is why nobody argues about them.

The ETSB scaling to physicals, however, is not. Which is why it's been heavily debated for a decade.
And much like any debatable subject, the majority gravitates towards the better constructed argument.
Instead of crying bias, maybe just acknowledge the fact that the arguments made for y'all's side have been historically doodoo and just..... like, make better ones? If something has NEVER once worked, maybe it's time to take a step back and reevaluate the approach?
Not everything is some grand conspiracy.
 
vsbattles.com

Kaguya’s Big Black Balls Solo Dbz Part 1/3

Intro: It was advised that this thread that it be split into 3 threads for more efficient arguing. The current interpretation of Kaguya’s ETSO (Expansive Truth-Seeking Orb) in relation to its size and scale is flawed when considering the statements and narrative in the series. These series of...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com

This is part one of the scaling thread made yesterday to be split into 3
 
I understand some of y’all are irritated at bruh, but um… Maybe we can be a little “nicer” on the characterization of some actions and how we describe certain arguments? Also, some of us should be more aware of the position our stances live in and acknowledge the faults in them even when we don’t want to concede. Maybe that’s not a hill worth dying on and stirring the pot over? 💁‍♂️
 
Samlex1234 said:
Creating a Welcoming Space for Naruto and Boruto Fans on the Wiki

Now is the time to unite and protest. If this rule gets passed, I guarantee it will be years before any meaningful change can happen. It grants the mods the power to shut down CRTs at will, regardless of whether they’re right or wrong.

I’ve seen this play out before. When I first joined VS Battles Wiki years ago, there was a terrible discussion rule in place. Every time I raised a CRT against it, they kept shutting me down. It took years of persistence, but that rule was finally overturned this year—proving it had been flawed all along for over four years.

Back then, they tried to paint me as irrational—“Oh, he’s just screaming bias”—but the reality was the discussion itself was flawed. The rule passed, not because it was right, but due to popularity—classic textbook ad populum fallacy.

vsbattles.com

Kaguya's ETSO The Final Chapter: Part 1, Episode 2

Yeah we need to talk about this jutsu, There has been a spike in the amount of conversation surrounding this jutsu in recent months and it has been a pretty controversial topic for the past 10 years since it was shown in the manga that everyone and their mother has a different opinion about...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
Click to expand...
you're doing a good job with countering them, but sadly there's already enough mod votes for this to pass, let's see what happens
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Idk if lex is intentionally this dense or is trolling, but every single thread that passes, even his own threads, only pass if the majority of staff agrees with him. I don’t know why he’s crying about an ad populum fallacy when his very own threads that pass would be subject to the same levied criticism. Like maybe just stop being a drama queen 😭

Edit: I know his intention is to call the dissenters biased objectively, trying to point out that logically they’re biased, which is just equally stupid given that among those staff include the biggest Naruto staff supporters like UchihaSlayer and Tracer
Click to expand...
Wow, the hypocrisy is real. You’re trying to discredit me for something you’ve done yourself. I know how you got Bleach to where it is now, yet you’re acting like you never engaged in the same tactics while calling me a ‘drama queen.’ Of course, majority approval is needed for a CRT to pass, and that’s fine. But stop misrepresenting my argument. My point is that you can’t create a discussion rule that blocks people from addressing an existing issue simply because it’s not popular. You’re being manipulative, making it seem like I targeted Slayer and Tracer, which I never did. And even if I had, why assume they can’t fall under that category? Just because they support Naruto doesn’t mean they or others don’t have concerns about the verse being overly focused on power scaling.

I will link some of your thread soon you hypocrite
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Y'all are acting like things that are extremely debatable and controversial are some irrefutable objective truth when they're really not.

An objective fact would be something like "Orochimaru is a class above Part I Kakashi" or "Hashirama defeated Madara at the Final Valley". Those are objective truths, which is why nobody argues about them.

The ETSB scaling to physicals, however, is not. Which is why it's been heavily debated for a decade.
And much like any debatable subject, the majority gravitates towards the better constructed argument.
Instead of crying bias, maybe just acknowledge the fact that the arguments made for y'all's side have been historically doodoo and just..... like, make better ones? If something has NEVER once worked, maybe it's time to take a step back and reevaluate the approach?
Not everything is some grand conspiracy.
Click to expand...
You’re misrepresenting my argument. This isn’t about bias or lack of it. My concern is that if this rule gets passed, it will make it difficult to create meaningful CRTs. I’m trying to prevent what happened to me years ago from happening again. I’m not being unreasonable, I’m not trolling, and I’m certainly not crazy. No matter what, even if I have to stand alone against everyone, I will stand for what is right.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
There are no downgrades planned, I’m currently working on an upgrade thread atm.
Click to expand...
Hawkeye-dont-give-me-hope-meme-3.png

Don't add something you'll eventually take away 💔😔
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Yes I’m saying stop being a baby because I too was once a whiny baby, but I stopped being one.
Click to expand...
Challenging a flawed system does not equate to whiny, you certain did that calling out VS wiki on it lack of consistency, which is not a bad thing. When I do the same thing stop trying to make me look bad you hypocrite. Let me refresh your memory you hypocrite remember this CRT you created simply to ask for consistency?

vsbattles.com

Kaguya’s ETSO

It is as it causes no issues when it doesnt scale to anyone but itself. Not relevant at all to the accuracy of the rating. Gross false equivalence. The bleach realms have absolutely never been assumed as being some transparent space-times like you are suggesting Kaguyas here, for whatever...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com

This used to exist before at a point​

Bleach Rules​

  • Do not create discussion threads trying to upgrade Yhwach to 3-A or Low 2-C for attempting to destroy the Soul Society and the Living World until new canon information is released. These terms have been accepted to refer to the planets in said context, and the topic has been extensively discussed many times.

Naruto rules
  • Please refrain from attempting to upgrade Momoshiki and Kinshiki above Kaguya based on Sasuke's statement. It was decided that Sasuke was not a reliable source of information regarding Momoshiki's and Kinshiki's powers, since he never faced both until some chapters later. It's also concluded that the statements of "greater threat" and Kaguya fearing them are not enough to make Momoshiki stronger than her, considering the context of her past, and the power-ups that she received during the 1000 years she was on Earth. She also feared three Otsutsuki at the same time, and not only one. The feats displayed are also inconsistent with this scaling, since Momoshiki fought and had trouble with SPSM Naruto after having his chakra drained for a long period of time, and Sasuke, who was low on chakra by using portals, while Kaguya fought and easily overpowered both Naruto and Sasuke at peak condition. This topic has been brought up several times during a brief period of time, and the staff and regular members are tired of dealing with the subject.
For most of this rules we did not get new evidence. How did they get passed initially then?. Well popularity? This is my point of contention,

No rule should get passed due to popularity alone; it must be grounded in sound reasoning and an understanding of its potential impact on the community it serves. Popularity alone leads to hasty decisions that overlook important nuances, fairness, and long-term consequences, ultimately undermining the integrity and effectiveness of governance in this case the leaders or Mods of VS Battle wiki.
 
Samlex1234 said:
No rule should get passed due to popularity alone
Click to expand...
No rule is passed due to popular vote alone. Argumentation has to be made to convince the judges to vote in favor of a rule. It’s not a “oh majority like this” it’s an “oh the majority were convinced by this argumentation”. You’re equating “I disagree with this” to “it’s not grounded in anything”.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
No rule is passed due to popular vote alone. Argumentation has to be made to convince the judges to vote in favor of a rule. It’s not a “oh majority like this” it’s an “oh the majority were convinced by this argumentation”. You’re equating “I disagree with this” to “it’s not grounded in anything”.
Click to expand...

Imagine someone creates a CRT and claims that Naruto is equivalent to Shaquille O’Neal, citing as evidence that Shaq once said he loves Naruto. This argument is clearly absurd.

Then, you see the mods responding with, “I agree, I agree, I agree.”

But what exactly are they agreeing with? The evidence presented is fundamentally flawed. I’ve provided counter-evidence, yet no one has engaged with it. As a result, the CRT gets approved based on popularity rather than sound reasoning.
This situation is even worse when there’s a discussion rule in place. A discussion prevent constructive debate by disallowing CRTs that challenge flawed notions. People are not crazy or dense when they tackle a faulty foundation. It is faulty it has to be fixed.
 
Samlex1234 said:
Creating a Welcoming Space for Naruto and Boruto Fans on the Wiki

Now is the time to unite and protest. If this rule gets passed, I guarantee it will be years before any meaningful change can happen. It grants the mods the power to shut down CRTs at will, regardless of whether they’re right or wrong.

I’ve seen this play out before. When I first joined VS Battles Wiki years ago, there was a terrible discussion rule in place. Every time I raised a CRT against it, they kept shutting me down. It took years of persistence, but that rule was finally overturned this year—proving it had been flawed all along for over four years.

Back then, they tried to paint me as irrational—“Oh, he’s just screaming bias”—but the reality was the discussion itself was flawed. The rule passed, not because it was right, but due to popularity—classic textbook ad populum fallacy.

vsbattles.com

Kaguya's ETSO The Final Chapter: Part 1, Episode 2

Yeah we need to talk about this jutsu, There has been a spike in the amount of conversation surrounding this jutsu in recent months and it has been a pretty controversial topic for the past 10 years since it was shown in the manga that everyone and their mother has a different opinion about...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
Click to expand...
o7Dh6bp.jpeg
 
Samlex1234 said:
Challenging a flawed system does not equate to whiny, you certain did that calling out VS wiki on it lack of consistency, which is not a bad thing. When I do the same thing stop trying to make me look bad you hypocrite. Let me refresh your memory you hypocrite remember this CRT you created simply to ask for consistency?

vsbattles.com

Kaguya’s ETSO

It is as it causes no issues when it doesnt scale to anyone but itself. Not relevant at all to the accuracy of the rating. Gross false equivalence. The bleach realms have absolutely never been assumed as being some transparent space-times like you are suggesting Kaguyas here, for whatever...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com

This used to exist before at a point​

Bleach Rules​

  • Do not create discussion threads trying to upgrade Yhwach to 3-A or Low 2-C for attempting to destroy the Soul Society and the Living World until new canon information is released. These terms have been accepted to refer to the planets in said context, and the topic has been extensively discussed many times.

Naruto rules
  • Please refrain from attempting to upgrade Momoshiki and Kinshiki above Kaguya based on Sasuke's statement. It was decided that Sasuke was not a reliable source of information regarding Momoshiki's and Kinshiki's powers, since he never faced both until some chapters later. It's also concluded that the statements of "greater threat" and Kaguya fearing them are not enough to make Momoshiki stronger than her, considering the context of her past, and the power-ups that she received during the 1000 years she was on Earth. She also feared three Otsutsuki at the same time, and not only one. The feats displayed are also inconsistent with this scaling, since Momoshiki fought and had trouble with SPSM Naruto after having his chakra drained for a long period of time, and Sasuke, who was low on chakra by using portals, while Kaguya fought and easily overpowered both Naruto and Sasuke at peak condition. This topic has been brought up several times during a brief period of time, and the staff and regular members are tired of dealing with the subject.
For most of this rules we did not get new evidence. How did they get passed initially then?. Well popularity? This is my point of contention,

No rule should get passed due to popularity alone; it must be grounded in sound reasoning and an understanding of its potential impact on the community it serves. Popularity alone leads to hasty decisions that overlook important nuances, fairness, and long-term consequences, ultimately undermining the integrity and effectiveness of governance in this case the leaders or Mods of VS Battle wiki.
Click to expand...
Bleach is a ridiculously bad comparison..they literally had to bring out a new anime with fresh canon information for their GT to reach tier 4 and 3 levels. Even when that rule was removed all it did was ED for the longest time before TYBW came out.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Y'all are acting like things that are extremely debatable and controversial are some irrefutable objective truth when they're really not.

An objective fact would be something like "Orochimaru is a class above Part I Kakashi" or "Hashirama defeated Madara at the Final Valley". Those are objective truths, which is why nobody argues about them.

The ETSB scaling to physicals, however, is not. Which is why it's been heavily debated for a decade.
And much like any debatable subject, the majority gravitates towards the better constructed argument.
Instead of crying bias, maybe just acknowledge the fact that the arguments made for y'all's side have been historically doodoo and just..... like, make better ones? If something has NEVER once worked, maybe it's time to take a step back and reevaluate the approach?
Not everything is some grand conspiracy.
Click to expand...
This is fine but i still feel the old discussion rule is the best.
"Till new info comes out on etso" that phrase happening is closer to zero than one. The main series ended and the spin off barely talks about kaguya. If they ever talk about ETSO directly or indirectly it's to maybe compare it to another jutsu which frankly seems even less likely as the manga focuses less on jutsu than ever. So like that's as close to "never talk about it" as it gets. I've been on this wiki for líke 2years now and ETSO scaling over physicals has never been something spammed tbh. The rule worked fine. If you see the few threads created this year It was by fresh new members and so poorly done you could call it a troll.
The MAS arguments i thought were kinda cool and it wasn't the usual "kaguya physicals scale bla bla bla".
 
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