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Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

karo_senpaii said:
vsbattles.com

Springtime of Youth

Hi Opening the Gate of Death grants you dozens stat amp on whatever your previous physical stat was The least possible value for this is 24 Agree: Neutral: Disagree:
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
Click to expand...
Mk
karo_senpaii said:
2. tbh going by that their display of duels as eternal rivals probably did not extend to competing with raikiri and gates. They definitely always duelled base to base. I'm just showing how technicallly Kakashi can always still match him for the most part.
Click to expand...
It's not just about their duels, there are literal statements about (https://naruto-official.com/news/01_1875?nolangsuggestion=1) their relativity.
karo_senpaii said:
3. This is really wrong actually. Not only as haku just literally allowing himself get punched by Naruto bro was already weakened from literally spamming chakra draining kekkei genkai.
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The databook states that Naruto's power outright surpasses Haku's Kekkai Genkai
karo_senpaii said:
Like dude was fast enough to blitz kakashi with a raikiri from where he was and save zabuza. Unless you think KNO Naruto could replicate same then it's wrong
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He was absolutely resolve amped there. Haku's legit the first character in the series to talk about those.
karo_senpaii said:
4. The relativity in question is what you are contending but somehow you want to claim it here? The lack of feats here I what you tried to discredit guy some moments ago by calling pain fighting kakashi and guy not scratching kisame in base.
Click to expand...
You were saying they're not relative cause Guy has better feats, but that doesn't logically follow as their stated relativity means Kakashi just upscales to Guy's feats. There's a difference between a lack of feats and antifeats, which is what Base Guy has in comparison to Kakashi.
NeoKingOfLight said:
So, regarding Kyuubi Chakra, do we consider it additive the stronger the shinobi is?

Example:
  1. LoW Base Naruto is =< Base LoW Sasuke whom is > 1/10th Zabuza.
  2. Haku is > LoW Kakashi / Zabuza.
  3. Kn0 was more than a 10x Amp for Naruto whom went on to Dominate Haku brutally.
Now obviously over the course of the series, Naruto’s base gets stronger, but that said, do we consider Kn0 still being a more than 10x amp for Naruto in say, VoTE Fight OR do we take it as, the stronger Naruto gets, the lesser of a Buff Kurama’s Chakra becomes?

Meaning that for say, if a Ninja was equally as strong as Kurama, would Kurama’s Chakra be “additive” for that Ninja, instead of a “Multiplier”?
Click to expand...
There's a reason KCM Minato is relative to BSM Naruto despite Base Minato being far below.
 
Littlegen said:
If a Ninja had as much chakra as Kurama, adding Kurama's Chakra to their own would still kinda be a multiplier?

Kurama's Chakra is just stronger than your average Shinobi's. So the volume and power would increase.

Kakashi speculated his Kamui was at least 3 times stronger using Kurama's Chakra.
image.png
Click to expand...
No I meant as in Chakra Strength. If a Ninja had Chakra as strong as Kurama’s, if they got his chakra.

The example of Naruto was asking if, seeing as it was 10x Amp against Haku, would it still be a 10x amp later on, even though Naruto gets stronger or if Naruto getting stronger lessens the multiplier he gets from the chakra.
 
NeoKingOfLight said:
No I meant as in Chakra Strength. If a Ninja had Chakra as strong as Kurama’s, if they got his chakra.

The example of Naruto was asking if, seeing as it was 10x Amp against Haku, would it still be a 10x amp later on, even though Naruto gets stronger or if Naruto getting stronger lessens the multiplier he gets from the chakra.
Click to expand...
Oh but to answer in this context specifically I'm kind of doubtful since Naruto and Kurama aren't working together. We know for example that in KCM1, Naruto entirely shelves his own chakra when using KCM
 
MinatoSparkle said:
There's a reason KCM Minato is relative to BSM Naruto despite Base Minato being far below.
Click to expand...
I’m not just asking for Minato’s sake and that doesn’t answer the question either. We’ve discussed this and I’m not going back i to greatest detail on it, but suffice to say, Minato’s scaling has a foundational argument that can drastically change it on this wiki, depending on the argument and presentation of facts (Some may disagree, and that’s fine, but that wasn’t the root of the question I asked). 😓
 
MinatoSparkle said:
Oh but to answer in this context specifically I'm kind of doubtful since Naruto and Kurama aren't working together. We know for example that in KCM1, Naruto entirely shelves his own chakra when using KCM
Click to expand...
Doubtful in that it would remain the same or lessen? Outside of the KCM example of course for that reason.
 
NeoKingOfLight said:
I’m not just asking for Minato’s sake and that doesn’t answer the question either. We’ve discussed this and I’m not going back i to greatest detail on it, but suffice to say, Minato’s scaling has a foundational argument that can drastically change it on this wiki, depending on the argument and presentation of facts (Some may disagree, and that’s fine, but that wasn’t the root of the question I asked). 😓
Click to expand...
What I'm saying is that KCM Minato being relative to BSM Naruto is indicative of Kurama chakra not just being a linear amp. Even if Base Minato is stronger than KCM2 Naruto as you think, he's certainly not so much stronger that he's close to KCM2 Naruto with Sage Mode. He'd have to be like 19x stronger than KCM2 Naruto at least.
NeoKingOfLight said:
Doubtful in that it would remain the same or lessen? Outside of the KCM example of course for that reason.
Click to expand...
Doubtful that it'd be a multiplier.
 
NeoKingOfLight said:
No I meant as in Chakra Strength. If a Ninja had Chakra as strong as Kurama’s, if they got his chakra.
Click to expand...
I don't believe so. It would make them stronger, letting say Naruto make an even bigger Rasengan, by virtue of having an increased well of energy but if his chakra was already as strong as Kurama's it wouldn't make him stronger, like in your example.

Unless Naruto "links" to that Chakra. That seems to make their Chakra stronger by virtue of that link.
 
I have a question for you all.

How do you speculate Kurama Sage Mode works?
TBM_combines_with_SM.png


Does Naruto infuse his own Chakra and then links his Chakra to Kurama's or does he do it in reverse?

Essentially, the question is if Naruto and Kurama's Chakra both turned into Senjutsu Chakra or just Naruto's.
 
Isn't Kurama's chakra just NE? Even if Kurama's chakra is infused with NE, it'll just be a mixture of two types of NE, not senjutsu chakra.

Every mode in Naruto is a combination of PE, SE, NE.

SPSM = Naruto's PE+SE+ Hag's PE+SE+NE
KCM = Naruto's PE+SE + Kurama's NE
Naruto = Naruto's PE+SE
Sage Mode = Naruto's PE+SE+NE
 
Littlegen said:
How Tailed Beast Chakra works is utterly confusing but I haven't found or recall a statement saying it contained natural energy.
Click to expand...
10 Tails was stated to be just NE in the war iirc. And since Kurama was split from the 10 Tails, I assume that he's just NE too. Of course I'm not sure. Maybe Hagoromo's COAT made it so Kurama as more than just NE, but even then, his chakra should already be Senjutsu. It makes some sense for Kurama to have NE too, considering too much of Kurama's unchecked chakra changes Naruto's physical appearance just like NE does to sages depending on who they learned SM from.
 
Littlegen said:
I have a question for you all.

How do you speculate Kurama Sage Mode works?
TBM_combines_with_SM.png


Does Naruto infuse his own Chakra and then links his Chakra to Kurama's or does he do it in reverse?

Essentially, the question is if Naruto and Kurama's Chakra both turned into Senjutsu Chakra or just Naruto's.
Click to expand...
He can do it both ways, but they should both end up with the same result of (Naruto + Kurama) x Sage Mode
HelloThere1089 said:
10 Tails was stated to be just NE in the war iirc. And since Kurama was split from the 10 Tails, I assume that he's just NE too. Of course I'm not sure. Maybe Hagoromo's COAT made it so Kurama as more than just NE, but even then, his chakra should already be Senjutsu. It makes some sense for Kurama to have NE too, considering too much of Kurama's unchecked chakra changes Naruto's physical appearance just like NE does to sages depending on who they learned SM from.
Click to expand...
I don't think he's just nature energy considering KCM2 Naruto can't damage Juubito
 
Littlegen said:
You actually just came to the same conclusion I did like 4 years ago.
Click to expand...
Believe me I've had my issues with the chakra system and jutsu system for a loooong time now. So this isn't anything new. Chakra maybe one of the most diverse energy systems out there but it sure has it's glaring inconsistencies.
 
Proposal: Hagoromo converted the 10 tails NE into tailed beasts PE and SE using COAT in a way where it switches back to NE when combined. This explains why tailed beasts have intellect unlike the 10 tails due to having SE. The Shinju also gained intellect once their energy composition was altered. They likely started to produce SE.
 
HelloThere1089 said:
Isn't Kurama's chakra just NE? Even if Kurama's chakra is infused with NE, it'll just be a mixture of two types of NE, not senjutsu chakra.

Every mode in Naruto is a combination of PE, SE, NE.

SPSM = Naruto's PE+SE+ Hag's PE+SE+NE
KCM = Naruto's PE+SE + Kurama's NE
Naruto = Naruto's PE+SE
Sage Mode = Naruto's PE+SE+NE
Click to expand...
if u say it in the right order it becomes PENESE
 
NeoKingOfLight said:
Yeah. I mean, “personally” I think Kurama is insignificant to Naruto’s AP/Physicals due to having Six Paths Chakra still (With him only taking a hit to the Arsenal reasons discussed). I know some people have reasons to disagree with that, but still. I just feel like, Kishimoto and ikemoto haven’t given any thought to the specifics of Naruto’s Powersets

The narrative is pushing the notion Naruto doesn’t have “superhuman strength” without Kurama which implies Naruto would be below his KCM forms, which is directly at odds with how it’s written Naruto up to that point. The only way I could see this being the case is if Naruto “Doesn’t” have Six Paths Chakra anymore, which makes no sense unless Kurama’s Chakra grew to become Superior to Hagoromo’s chakra, which is unlikely.
Click to expand...
Technically ikemoto might be pushing the narrative that naruto's main six path source is having all tailed beast chakra and as such a pseudo tentails (i share same sentiment as I suspect that's why Naruto had 9 balls specifically). So loosing one tailed beast totally i.e kurama breaks it and h is no longer a pseudo 10 tails jinjuriki so his mains source goes bye bye
 
MinatoSparkle said:
Mk

It's not just about their duels, there are literal statements about (https://naruto-official.com/news/01_1875?nolangsuggestion=1) their relativity.

The databook states that Naruto's power outright surpasses Haku's Kekkai Genkai

He was absolutely resolve amped there. Haku's legit the first character in the series to talk about those.

You were saying they're not relative cause Guy has better feats, but that doesn't logically follow as their stated relativity means Kakashi just upscales to Guy's feats. There's a difference between a lack of feats and antifeats, which is what Base Guy has in comparison to Kakashi.

There's a reason KCM Minato is relative to BSM Naruto despite Base Minato being far below.
Click to expand...
1. I just gave you other means for them to be relative. You're the one ta brought "in character" into this. I just followed suit. Also I know they are relative, I don't argue that. You're the one trying to pick and choose where to apply he statement by saying it can't be base but at full power and your points are based on skeptical feats but when I try and use feats for 7th gate guy you fall back to the statement..how about we just say everyone was fully aware of guy going 8th gate and they were still regarded as equals and place kakashi relative to him?

2.yea I'm going to take manga over databook.

3. Yeah haku was the first character to be both resolved amped and mentally nerfed. You acknowledge the latter and just ignore the former. Edo haku also fought guy and lee. KNO Naruto is getting smoked and one shoted.

4. By that logic guy also just upscales to kakashi feats also we should deduce statements if not kakashi would also upscale to 8th gate guy
 
HelloThere1089 said:
💀
Click to expand...
I was gonna make the same joke :mad:
karo_senpaii said:
1. I just gave you other means for them to be relative. You're the one ta brought "in character" into this. I just followed suit.
Click to expand...
In character in an actual fight, not friendly spars
karo_senpaii said:
Also I know they are relative, I don't argue that. You're the one trying to pick and choose where to apply he statement by saying it can't be base but at full power
Click to expand...
Because the databook refers to their true strength
karo_senpaii said:
and your points are based on skeptical feats but when I try and use feats for 7th gate guy you fall back to the statement..how about we just say everyone was fully aware of guy going 8th gate and they were still regarded as equals and place kakashi relative to him?
Click to expand...
Because we have Kakashi's statement that Guy surpassed him with the 8th Gate to clarify that their relativity is only up to the 7th Gate
karo_senpaii said:
2.yea I'm going to take manga over databook.
Click to expand...
There's no contradiction to this in the manga, there are just things that could make the position less likely.
karo_senpaii said:
3. Yeah haku was the first character to be both resolved amped and mentally nerfed. You acknowledge the latter and just ignore the former.
Click to expand...
I don't ignore the former. KM0 Naruto being above mentally nerfed Haku and Haku in general aren't contradictory. Although I do doubt that Haku was mentally nerfed when Naruto wasn't at risk of death at all at that point and Haku was the one fighting for his life
karo_senpaii said:
Edo haku also fought guy and lee. KNO Naruto is getting smoked and one shoted.
Click to expand...
Base Guy and Lee, no proof that they're above KM0 Naruto without the Gates. Plus, that was with a long distance to react.
karo_senpaii said:
4. By that logic guy also just upscales to kakashi feats also we should deduce statements if not kakashi would also upscale to 8th gate guy
Click to expand...
Yes and via preponderance of evidence, Kakashi and Guy with access to Gates 1-7 are relative, if not with a slight edge to Kakashi given Kakashi being stated to be Konoha's strongest ninja/jonin multiple times.
 
Guys this is my first ever CRT. All inputs will be appreciated:
vsbattles.com

Smartest Scarecrow in fiction: Kakashi intelligence overhaul

Hello there. Never thought I'd have to make a CRT, but Kakashi's intelligence section was just straight ass. Mf's weakness section was bigger than it. This is my sandbox of Kakashi's intelligence section: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:HelloThere1089/SmartestScarecrowInFiction Special...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
MinatoSparkle said:
I was gonna make the same joke :mad:

In character in an actual fight, not friendly spars

Because the databook refers to their true strength

Because we have Kakashi's statement that Guy surpassed him with the 8th Gate to clarify that their relativity is only up to the 7th Gate

There's no contradiction to this in the manga, there are just things that could make the position less likely.

I don't ignore the former. KM0 Naruto being above mentally nerfed Haku and Haku in general aren't contradictory. Although I do doubt that Haku was mentally nerfed when Naruto wasn't at risk of death at all at that point and Haku was the one fighting for his life

Base Guy and Lee, no proof that they're above KM0 Naruto without the Gates. Plus, that was with a long distance to react.

Yes and via preponderance of evidence, Kakashi and Guy with access to Gates 1-7 are relative, if not with a slight edge to Kakashi given Kakashi being stated to be Konoha's strongest ninja/jonin multiple times.
Click to expand...
Man I'm tired
 
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