Naruto Part II Revisions (Multipliers/Calculations)

[Padaruyos]

So Sage Mode, which is stronger, would be High 7-A+/2.65 gigatons.

If the 25x multiplier were true then 6-C KCM Naruto isn't that much of a stretch anymore. You only have to be 60% stronger than SM Naruto to reach 6-C. So even if we say KN6 is 30% stronger than SM and KCM is 25% stronger than KN6, KCM would land at 6-C.

 

[LordTracer]

That doesn't mean it's just KN0 though.

And it doesn't mean the AP increase follows equally to the chakra increase.

It’s just the Kyuubi chakra. We weren’t given a number of tails or anything, and based on Kakashi’s words, it would be just be Naruto using Kyuubi chakra, so KN0 and up.

It would though. Naruto’s attacks have chakra behind them, and while he can’t use all of his chakra at once, there’s no reason to assume the multiplier gets shorter, considering that it’s dependent on Kurama. So AP, speed, dura, all of that gets multiplied.

 

[KingTempest]

Yes, after the ritual Base Sasuke was much stronger than Naruto and was still able to beat him down even when he used Vermilion Mode/KN0

They were relative, but Sasuke had better taijutsu so Naruto couldn't hit him as much. Naruto did hit him with the clones and damaged em, it was just fighting style that carried Sasuke.

 

[Padaruyos]

That doesn't mean it's just KN0 though.

And it doesn't mean the AP increase follows equally to the chakra increase.

When mixed with Kurama's chakra not only does Naruto get more chakra, the chakra itself also becomes way more potent. So it's possible.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

They were relative, but Sasuke had better taijutsu so Naruto couldn't hit him as much. Naruto did hit him with the clones and damaged em, it was just fighting style that carried Sasuke.

Don't forget his serious case of Pinkeye

 

[Padaruyos]

There's a lot "At Least" scaling lol. Naruto with Kurama chakra is At Least 25x stronger than Base and KN4 is possibly At Least stronger than that and Sage Mode is At Least stronger than that and KN6 is At Least stronger than SM and KCM is At Least stronger than KN6.

 

[Omimi]

Oh yeah, that’s my bad. Also this reminds me that BSM Naruto and EMS Sasuke shouldn’t scale to Juubito since they were using senjutsu against him.

i agree that BSM Naruto and EMS Sasuke shouldn’t scale to Juubito
but
senjutsu is not juubi weakness
its juubi jin powernull weaknees
powernull simply cant null which is real/ natural
senjutsu use nature energy which is part of natural so no power-null shouldnt able to affect it since its not supernatural

 

[KingTempest]

When mixed with Kurama's chakra not only does Naruto get more chakra, the chakra itself also becomes way more potent. So it's possible.

It would be a boost, but not a 1:1 ratio.

I'm still iffy over all of this. 25x multiplier is wild. My suggestion still stands too

Base Naruto has 4x the reserves of Kakashi.
Naruto w/ Kurama's leaking out is 100x more.
Naruto w/ Kurama cooperating with him is much larger.

People keep thinking "25x multiplier" which is a horrible mindset to have.
If you think 25x multiplier, you would have to think that Naruto is 4x stronger than Kakashi

Leaking out does not equal KN0 and all of that. I'm not referring to the modes.
Kurama has been leaking chakra through the seal since Naruto was born.
Naruto's chakra deadass combined w/ Kuramas.
Yamato is suppressing above, making it as if Kurama was never linked w/ Naruto.
Naruto has the same amount of chakra in KN0 that he does in 6 tails, he's just accessing more.

And if it was a 1:1 ratio for chakra to speed, ap, dura, all of that, then if Naruto puts no chakra, he has no speed, no ap, no dura.

 

[Padaruyos]

i agree that BSM Naruto and EMS Sasuke shouldn’t scale to Juubito
but
senjutsu is not juubi weakness
its juubi jin powernull weaknees
powernull simply cant null which is real/ natural
senjutsu use nature energy which is part of natural so no power-null shouldnt able to affect it since its not supernatural

Agree, Senjutsu isn't like Kryptonite to Juubi Jins.

 

[BlastX]

I was talking about the valley of the end, not the hospital roof

 

[Padaruyos]

I'm still iffy over all of this. 25x multiplier is wild. My suggestion still stands too

Quite honestly I'm also quite iffy with the 25x multiplier thing. But I don't have any real counters to it other anything that others has said.

 

[LordTracer]

It would be a boost, but not a 1:1 ratio.

I'm still iffy over all of this. 25x multiplier is wild. My suggestion still stands too

And if it was a 1:1 ratio for chakra to speed, ap, dura, all of that, then if Naruto puts no chakra, he has no speed, no ap, no dura.

Remember, it’s still a 25x multiplier on the amount of chakra that Naruto is capable of accessing at the time (and this would be mentioned in his justification).

Let’s say the amount of chakra Naruto can access at one time = 2, and the amount he has in total = 15. Kurama’s chakra would give him 375 in total, but he’d still only be able to access 50. Does that make sense?

 

[KingTempest]

Agree, Senjutsu isn't like Kryptonite to Juubi Jins.

Juubito got hit by a regular sage rasengan and was put in the ground

 

[AstralKing7]

There is a misconception about senjutsu. Senjutsu doesn’t make Juubi Jins weak at all. It just makes them more vulnerable.
The fact that Obito took no damage from Naruto also proves that

I didn’t read anything else up too jsut putting my two cents in since I see a lot spreading it around

 

[Padaruyos]

Juubito got hit by a regular sage rasengan and was put in the ground

Crap I forgot about that. So maybe it does make Juubi Jins more vulnerable.

 

[Omimi]

Also there was that Sakura Hiden multiplier for a similar thing.

1000x is big multiplier so wiki wont accept that lol
if it was onlt 10x or 100x

 

[KingTempest]

Remember, it’s still a 25x multiplier on the amount of chakra that Naruto is capable of accessing at the time (and this would be mentioned in his justification).

Let’s say the amount of chakra Naruto can access at one time = 2, and the amount he has in total = 15. Kurama’s chakra would give him 375 in total, but he’d still only be able to access 50. Does that make sense?

It makes perfect sense. but we would need to consider Naruto's chakra control.
Naruto can not efficiently use all of his chakra. It would
A. Drop the amount that he can efficiently use, since he wastes a shit ton of chakra.
B. Drop the amount that he can access, since if he accesses all of his chakra and runs out, he's dead.

I understand what you mean 100%, but he still has trash control and he would just waste the majority of his chakra.

 

[LordTracer]

It makes perfect sense. but we would need to consider Naruto's chakra control.
Naruto can not efficiently use all of his chakra. It would
A. Drop the amount that he can efficiently use, since he wastes a shit ton of chakra.
B. Drop the amount that he can access, since if he accesses all of his chakra and runs out, he's dead.

I understand what you mean 100%, but he still has trash control and he would just waste the majority of his chakra.

I agree completely, Naruto has really bad chakra control. But the amount that he can control and effectively use would still be multiplied by 25x.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

There is a misconception about senjutsu. Senjutsu doesn’t make Juubi Jins weak at all. It just makes them more vulnerable.
The fact that Obito took no damage from Naruto also proves that

I didn’t read anything else up too jsut putting my two cents in since I see a lot spreading it around

Juubito WAS unquestionably damaged by SM Naruto's Rasengan.

 

[KingTempest]

During the Juubi Jin part of the war arc I hated durability with a passion.
Kaguya tanked 9 Senjutsu Bijuu Amped Cellular Damage Rasenshurikens but was getting bullied by punches. It's not even outliers, her split durability is trash. No wonder why Sakura shat on her.
Obito tanked a KCM rasenshuriken with flame control at point blank while it's chopping at his stomach, but a regular sage rasengan puts him down.

I'm willing to advocate for extreme resistance to energy manipulation for those with Six Paths Senjutsu, but weakness to taijutsu since these people can't take some punches.

 

[KingTempest]

I agree completely, Naruto has really bad chakra control. But the amount that he can control and effectively use would still be multiplied by 25x.

Understood, Respected, and Agreed

 

[M3X_2.0]

How is the Bijū scaling discussion going? What happened?

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

During the Juubi Jin part of the war arc I hated durability with a passion.
Kaguya tanked 9 Senjutsu Bijuu Amped Cellular Damage Rasenshurikens but was getting bullied by punches. It's not even outliers, her split durability is trash. No wonder why Sakura shat on her.
Obito tanked a KCM rasenshuriken with flame control at point blank while it's chopping at his stomach, but a regular sage rasengan puts him down.
I'm willing to advocate for extreme resistance to energy manipulation for those with Six Paths Senjutsu, but weakness to taijutsu since these people can't take some punches.

Well, they ACTUALLY are also weak to Taijutsu, so you're not wrong lol.
I guess "vulnerable" is a more apt description.

 

[KingTempest]

How is the Bijū scaling discussion going? What happened?

1. I'm doing a pixel calc to compare the sizes of Bee's bijuudama before it exploded, I'm trying to see if the AP of that bijuudama = the AP of the other 6-C ones.
   1. That'll see Bee's durability and it ties in w/ #3.
2. We paused on the Naruto striking w/ the bijuudamas since we don't have any clue of the AP of non exploding bijuudamas.
   1. I suggested that it's astronomically smaller than the bijuudamas exploding.
3. A few of us agreed on their current striking reasoning to be taken down.
   1. If #1 is 6-C, then it gives them a new reasoning for 6-C striking.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Fine. I think we can make a new profile for Naruto and all characters we revised the keys with the current accepted scaling. This thread can be closed, we should create one for the Bijū scaling, and after this one, a thread for war arc characters in general.

 

[LordTracer]

So, we’re scaling the V2 jinchūriki to KCM, right? Because then their BM would upscale to 6-C, but be baseline physically.

 

[LordTracer]

So their tiers would be ‘6-C, higher with Bijuudama’ (assuming the 25x multiplier is good to go, which it seems to be)

 

[KingTempest]

We need to discuss Bijū scaling.
We need to discuss durability negation for Truthseeking Orbs as well.
We need to discuss anything involving Juubito, Madara & Kaguya.

I'm requesting energy manipulation resistance/immunity for Naruto, since he has SPSM, which made the Juubi jins immune to ninjutsu (Obito, Madara, and Kaguya) immune to Ninjutsu, but weakness to physical attacks. I can make a CRT for that whenever these r done.
Off Guard Naruto was able to tank a point blank chidori from Sasuke. It didn't seem Six Paths Chakra enhanced, so that could explain why he tanked it.

That's probably it.

 

[Omimi]

Juubito got hit by a regular sage rasengan and was put in the ground

jubito easily smack around BSM rasengan so
thats outlier for SM naruto

 

[KingTempest]

So, we’re scaling the V2 jinchūriki to KCM, right? Because then their BM would upscale to 6-C, but be baseline physically.

I'd honestly put their base at KCM level, V2 slightly higher, and BM to 6-C if not High 7-A+

So their tiers would be ‘6-C, higher with Bijuudama’ (assuming the 25x multiplier is good to go, which it seems to be)

Kurama has the most chakra of all the bijuu, I doubt the 25x would go to them as well.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

We need to discuss Bijū scaling.
We need to discuss durability negation for Truthseeking Orbs as well.
We need to discuss anything involving Juubito, Madara & Kaguya.

I'm requesting energy manipulation resistance/immunity for Naruto, since he has SPSM, which made the Juubi jins immune to ninjutsu (Obito, Madara, and Kaguya) immune to Ninjutsu, but weakness to physical attacks. I can make a CRT for that whenever these r done.
Off Guard Naruto was able to tank a point blank chidori from Sasuke. It didn't seem Six Paths Chakra enhanced, so that could explain why he tanked it.

That's probably it.

They already have Limited Invulnerability on their profiles for this very reason.

 

[LordTracer]

I'd honestly put their base at KCM level, V2 slightly higher, and BM to 6-C if not High 7-A+


Kurama has the most chakra of all the bijuu, I doubt the 25x would go to them as well.

Oh, no, I wasn’t giving them the 25x multiplier as well. I was just saying that if it was accepted for Naruto, then that’s how the jinchūriki would scale.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Fine. I think we can make a new profile for Naruto and all characters we revised the keys with the current accepted scaling. This thread can be closed, we should create one for the Bijū scaling, and after this one, a thread for war arc characters in general.

 

[Omimi]

We need to discuss Bijū scaling.
We need to discuss durability negation for Truthseeking Orbs as well.
We need to discuss anything involving Juubito, Madara & Kaguya.

I'm requesting energy manipulation resistance/immunity for Naruto, since he has SPSM, which made the Juubi jins immune to ninjutsu (Obito, Madara, and Kaguya) immune to Ninjutsu, but weakness to physical attacks. I can make a CRT for that whenever these r done.
Off Guard Naruto was able to tank a point blank chidori from Sasuke. It didn't seem Six Paths Chakra enhanced, so that could explain why he tanked it.

That's probably it.

u don't need to make crt for this since they already have invulnerability but we dont use this on battle since its kinda NLF lol

 

[LordTracer]

I don’t think we should do that yet, we still have to discuss some of Naruto’s keys (BSM and SPSM).

 

[KingTempest]

@Omimi Not at all.
He blocked with the chakra arms that destroyed the barrier, got destroyed. Blocked with truthseeking orb, was getting destroyed.
Eventually he just smacked the 2 Kuramas away with either chakra arm or himself before he got hit.
@UchihaSlayer96 I meant for Naruto
@M3X Gotcha, I say we make the Biju one last, since it's easier to scale the god tiers off of Moon level feat and Sage mode instead of struggling w/ Biju questioning.

 

[LordTracer]

And the Bijuu scaling is almost entirely figured out at this point. All we need to decide is what form of the jinchūriki KCM scales to. If it’s V2, then BM is baseline 6-C. If it’s BM, then they’d be ‘At least High 7-A+’

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

@KingTempest
He has it on his profile as well.
All Six Paths Sage Mode users have it, so Obito, Naruto, Hagoromo, Kaguya, and Madara.

 

[LordTracer]

I do agree with making a new thread though, just not applying any of the changes to Naruto himself.

 

[KingTempest]

@KingTempest
He has it on his profile as well.
All Six Paths Sage Mode users have it, so Obito, Naruto, Hagoromo, Kaguya, and Madara.

Thanks for letting me know

And the Bijuu scaling is almost entirely figured out at this point. All we need to decide is what form of the jinchūriki KCM scales to. If it’s V2, then BM is baseline 6-C. If it’s BM, then they’d be ‘At least High 7-A+’

I do agree with making a new thread though, just not applying any of the changes to Naruto himself.

That feels like the safest option