Naruto Part II Revisions (Multipliers/Calculations)

[LordTracer]

Chakra arms = Bijuu arms

Scan providing evidence of this? It’s just Naruto making his chakra in the shape of an arm, it’s not actually Kurama’s arm. By that logic, KN1 Naruto would have Low 6-B chakra arms as well.

 

[LordTracer]

Wouldn't that 6-C for slapping away each one individually? He didn't slap a Bijudama that had the power of 5 Bijudamas.

Also, this calls into question whether slapping a Bijudama counts as taking the full energy of the explosion. It seems a lot like slapping a missile away. You wouldn't scale to the potency of a missile just because you kicked it our of the air.

Hold on, weren’t you the one that gave Kurama the High 6-C for this exact thing?

And he didn’t slap them away individually, he slapped them away at the same time. And Bijuudamas have been shown to have similar AP regardless of if they explode or not. Kurama’s could damage Hashirama’s Mokuton without exploding.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Wouldn't that 6-C for slapping away each one individually? He didn't slap a Bijudama that had the power of 5 Bijudamas.

Also, this calls into question whether slapping a Bijudama counts as taking the full energy of the explosion. It seems a lot like slapping a missile away. You wouldn't scale to the potency of a missile just because you kicked it our of the air.

This example doesn't apply here at all because we've seen that TBBs are comparable to the Biju's physically even without exploding. Here we see that the Mokuton that was restraining Kurama physically was destroyed by a TBB without exploding. This is relevant because it proves that TBBs can be used as "battering rams" of sorts, that are comparable to the physicals of the Bijuu in question.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Hold on, weren’t you the one that gave Kurama the High 6-C for this exact thing?

And he didn’t slap them away individually, he slapped them away at the same time. And Bijuudamas have been shown to have similar AP regardless of if they explode or not. Kurama’s could damage Hashirama’s Mokuton without exploding.

High 6-C is from BM Naruto matching their combined TBB. Him slapping away the 5 TBBs would be 6-C.

 

[Damage3245]

High 6-C is from BM Naruto matching their combined TBB. Him slapping away the 5 TBBs would be 6-C.

I was talking about KCM2 Naruto. I know BM Naruto matched their combined TBB.

> This example doesn't apply here at all because we've seen that TBBs are comparable to the Biju's physically even without exploding. Here we see that the Mokuton that was restraining Kurama physically was destroyed by a TBB without exploding. This is relevant because it proves that TBBs can be used as "battering rams" of sorts, that are comparable to the physicals of the Bijuu in question.

It doesn't really look like Kurama is restrained at all by the Wood Dragon. It wrapped around him then he immediately destroyed it.

And that doesn't necessarily mean the "battering force" of a TBB = the explosion.

 

[LordTracer]

High 6-C is from BM Naruto matching their combined TBB. Him slapping away the 5 TBBs would be 6-C.

Oh. That’s my bad then.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I was talking about KCM2 Naruto. I know BM Naruto matched their combined TBB.

> This example doesn't apply here at all because we've seen that TBBs are comparable to the Biju's physically even without exploding. Here we see that the Mokuton that was restraining Kurama physically was destroyed by a TBB without exploding. This is relevant because it proves that TBBs can be used as "battering rams" of sorts, that are comparable to the physicals of the Bijuu in question.

It doesn't really look like Kurama is restrained at all by the Wood Dragon. It wrapped around him then he immediately destroyed it.

And that doesn't necessarily mean the "battering force" of a TBB = the explosion.

I didn't say it was equal to the explosion, I said it was comparable to their physical strength, but we know they can tank their TBBs and also damage each other physically, so all of their attacks and durability are comparable.

 

[LordTracer]

It doesn't really look like Kurama is restrained at all by the Wood Dragon. It wrapped around him then he immediately destroyed it.

Hashirama’s Wood Release is consistently on Kurama’s level though, as a pair of Wood Release hands were able to block an attack from the Majestic Attire Susano’o, which is stronger than Kurama. So Bijuudama, even without exploding, are still close in AP to the actual explosion.

 

[LordTracer]

Majestic Attire Susano’o Bijuudama, again without exploding, can break some of the fists of Sage Hashirama’s True Several Thousand Hands while base Hashirama’s Wood Release can tank the explosion of Kurama’s Bijuudama (the majority of the True Several Thousand Hands statue also withstood explosions from the Bijuudama).

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Majestic Attire Susano’o Bijuudama, again without exploding, can break some of the fists of Sage Hashirama’s True Several Thousand Hands while base Hashirama’s Wood Release can tank the explosion of Kurama’s Bijuudama.

It can also break through his Rashoumon gates without exploding, and still have enough momentum to cross to the other shoreline.
Another piece of support is that Hashirama's Mokuton withstood the TBB's explosion. (And so did the Susano'o).
The wood dragon also restrained BM Naruto when used by Edo Madara, who isn't quite as proficient as Hashirama in Mokuton. Though you could say they're comparable at least I guess.
So all in all, Hashirama's wood ~ Perfect Susano'o ~ Kurama is extremely consistent.

 

[KingTempest]

@UchihaSlayer96 reserves are the sum of all of a shinobi's chakra.
Naruto does not put all of his chakra in one arm. If he did, he would die.
Naruto uses a small amount in each.
Hashirama looked at him share all of his chakra. That's not strength, that's just amount of chakra.

@LordTracer my point was mainly that his chakra arm doesn't = his physical. You were right that it's just chakra into an arm, but it doesn't make sense for a chakra arm to be = to Naruto's regular arm.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Chakra arms are just extensions used to supplement Naruto and give him range, they're not weaker or stronger than his regular arms because they're all shrouded in the same chakra cloak.

Also, you didn't really address my point. It's undeniable that as Naruto got more chakra from Kurama it exponentially increased all his stats and the potency of all of his Jutsu. To say that the amount of chakra Naruto has in the KCM forms isn't proportional to his strength is silly imo.

 

[LordTracer]

my point was mainly that his chakra arm doesn't = his physical. You were right that it's just chakra into an arm, but it doesn't make sense for a chakra arm to be = to Naruto's regular arm.

Based on...? I see no reason to assume the chakra arm isn’t comparable to Naruto’s physicals, because it’s just his chakra being made into an extra arm. Again with the KN1 example, his chakra arm isn’t portrayed as stronger than his normal attacks. They were having very similar, if not equal effects on Sasuke.

 

[BlackeJan]

Ok since people seems to forget....amount of chakra + chakra control = how powerful that person is. It’s already been said that Naruto is the ONLY person to have shit chakra control because of the mere fact of Kurama, everyone else has either a average or a very impressive chakra control so that already means by now since the beginning that we could tell how powerful someone is by their lvl of chakra....so I ask again why isn’t Hashirama scaling to his Wood Release

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Ok since people seems to forget....amount of chakra + chakra control = how powerful that person is. It’s already been said that Naruto is the ONLY person to have shit chakra control because of the mere fact of Kurama, everyone else has either a average or a very impressive chakra control so that already means by now since the beginning that we could tell how powerful someone is by their lvl of chakra....so I ask again why isn’t Hashirama scaling to his Wood Release

Because if he physically scales to his Wood Release, then Madara would scale to his perfect Susano'o. See the problem there?

 

[Metalija]

my point was mainly that his chakra arm doesn't = his physical. You were right that it's just chakra into an arm, but it doesn't make sense for a chakra arm to be = to Naruto's regular arm.

This as such a bad argument, does that mean that One tailed Narutos chakra arm is 6-B? His chakra arms scale to him, period.

 

[KingTempest]

@UchihaSlayer96 the same type of chakra in KCM1 is the same type of chakra in KCM2. It's just bigger cause he has more chakra to access.
You didn't notice my point.
"Naruto does not put all of his chakra in one arm. If he did, he would die."
Trying to say that since Naruto's 1 arm is reliant on his overall chakra amount is dumb. It's just bigger because he has more to access and the previous risk is gone.

The correlation to Version 1 and 2 tails is dumb trying to compare that to KCM. We forget that Naruto is the only person who has a different number of tails. Bee's version 1 and 2 has the same amount of tails. Is it the same strength?

@LordTracer @Metalija alright.
Killer Bee trains Naruto w/ chakra limbs, so they should be the same since his tentacle is just chakra, plus he's a jinchuriki.
Killer Bee gets mopped by the Raikage. Killer Bee's tentacle can hold the same exact Raikage in the same page. Nuff said.
Chakra arm ≠ their regular arm.

If anything, no one even proved why it should be the same.

 

[KingTempest]

This as such a bad argument, does that mean that One tailed Narutos chakra arm is 6-B? His chakra arms scale to him, period.

That's a fraction of his chakra. Stop comparing KCM to the version states.

 

[LordTracer]

Killer Bee gets mopped by the Raikage. Killer Bee's tentacle can hold the same exact Raikage in the same page. Nuff said.

A landing a single hit is not B “getting mopped,” you haven’t proven your point at all. Also A broke free in the literal next page, don’t leave context out.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Are you serious right now? How is any of that relevant rn?
What's the difference between KCM1 and KCM2? Naruto and Kurama now cooperate together, which literally only means that Naruto has access to more of Kurama's chakra than he had before. His chakra increased, and so did his strength and Jutsu potency. That's it. Simple, right?
And I wasn't equating KCM with the Version 2 cloak, I was just saying that they operate under the same principle of "More Kurama chakra access= More power".

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I just stumbled upon this. Madara himself acknowledges that the wood dragon was used to hold down the Kyuubi in the past. He also says he was holding back against Naruto earlier.
This is just extra support for what I said before.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Wait, why are we arguing about Madara scaling above KCM2 Naruto? He's stronger than Obito who himself scales to KCM2 Naruto.

 

[Metalija]

Killer Bee trains Naruto w/ chakra limbs, so they should be the same since his tentacle is just chakra, plus he's a jinchuriki.
Killer Bee gets mopped by the Raikage. Killer Bee's tentacle can hold the same exact Raikage in the same page. Nuff said.
Chakra arm ≠ their regular arm.

If anything, no one even proved why it should be the same.

Partial transformations are not the same as Narutos chakra arms. Narutos chakra arms have the same AP as his normal arms because his normal arms are also shrouded in that chakra.

 

[Deako97]

How are TBB 6B when they were shown and stated to be mountain level??

 

[LordTracer]

How are TBB 6B when they were shown and stated to be mountain level??

First of all, only Kurama and Gyūki’s combined Bijuudama, as well the Juubi’s are Low 6-B/6-B.

Second of all, the other Bijuu (except Shukaku) has their Bijuudamas calced at 6-C.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

How are TBB 6B when they were shown and stated to be mountain level??

You do know calculations exist for these kinds of things?

 

[Deako97]

First of all, only Kurama and Gyūki’s combined Bijuudama, as well the Juubi’s are Low 6-B/6-B.

Second of all, the other Bijuu (except Shukaku) has their Bijuudamas calced at 6-C.

I get the 1st part but how are all other bijuu 6c when they destroyed mountains

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-u_d2p_zy0fY/V9Y2f0kPw0I/AAAAAAADWlE/l7D-UUzecRI85f6pi-2U8tNDhrwhSPmNwCHM/s16000/0571-003.png

Kakashi even stated mountains not mountain. The size of explosion is relative to the mountain next to it everything shows and states mountain not island

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Because we're using vaporization for the calcs, which gives higher results. If we use pulverization the results might be closer to Mountain level.

 

[Deako97]

You do know calculations exist for these kinds of things?

Can u link it?? I wanna see how they justify island level when its shown to be mountain level and stated to be mountain. Shit like this baffles me

What's next, nappa from dbz city level feat is gonna be caculated to be actually country+ level because the explosion shown from outer space

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Can u link it?? I wanna see how they justify island level when its shown to be mountain level and stated to be mountain. Shit like this baffles me

What's next, nappa from dbz city level feat is gonna be caculated to be actually country+ level because the explosion shown from outer space

it's actually small planet level :^)

 

[KingTempest]

Wait, why are we arguing about Madara scaling above KCM2 Naruto? He's stronger than Obito who himself scales to KCM2 Naruto.

We're not arguing if Madara scales over KCM2 Naruto. That's common sense.
We're arguing if when Madara blocked the Super Mini Tailed Beast Ball, he took the same force that Naruto did when he slapped 5 bijuudamas away.

My point was that Naruto thrusting his arm ≠ Naruto's chakra arm slapping away bijuudamas. They're arguing against that. But I concede since they explained themselves

 

[M3X_2.0]

It's not stated to be mountain level. Kakashi only states that the attack destroyed a mountain. It's much different from "It can only destroy a mountain".

 

[LordTracer]

Why are you bringing up other verses?

Are you not aware of how calcs work? Vaporization requires way more energy than something like, let’s say pulverizarion, therefore the results for a vaporization calc would be much higher than that of a pulverization calc, even if it’s on the same thing.

 

[Deako97]

Because we're using vaporization for the calcs, which gives higher results. If we use pulverization the results might be closer to Mountain level.

Im sorry but how does that increase the level of range or AP of the attack. Also why vaporization have TBB been shown to vaporize i fail recall them doing it

 

[Deako97]

It's not stated to be mountain level. Kakashi only states that the attack destroyed a mountain. It's much different from "It can only destroy a mountain".

Thats called narrative intent especally when the explosion size of the attack is relative to a mountain

 

[KingTempest]

Im sorry but how does that increase the level of range or AP of the attack. Also why vaporization have TBB been shown to vaporize i fail recall them doing it

What takes more energy, to turn a rock into pebbles or to turn it into smoke?
Vaporization takes more energy than pulverization. Attack Potency is energy. More energy, more AP.

 

[Deako97]

Why are you bringing up other verses?

Are you not aware of how calcs work? Vaporization requires way more energy than something like, let’s say pulverizarion, therefore the results for a vaporization calc would be much higher than that of a pulverization calc, even if it’s on the same thing.

I brought up nappa feat as a comparison for how ridiculous caculs are getting.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

What's next, nappa from dbz city level feat is gonna be caculated to be actually country+ level because the explosion shown from outer space

Attack Potency via Destruction: Destroying a "Mountain"

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Assaltwaffle/Godzilla:_Destroying_Mount_Olympus

The above calculation is a perfect example as to why all "mountain busting" feats are not always Mountain level because they can be lower or higher than "Mountain Level". Don't take statements at face value if the feat is calcable.

 

[LordTracer]

So, since Tempest conceded his argument, are we in agreement on KCM2 Naruto (no Kurama Avatar) and Edo Madara being ‘At least 6-C’?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

So, since Tempest conceded his argument, are we in agreement on KCM2 Naruto (no Kurama Avatar) and Edo Madara being ‘At least 6-C’?

It's definitely better than Mountain+. I'll take what I can get I guess.