My Hero Academia: America Brings Upgrades/Revisions

[TheRustyOne]

Spoiler: Old Ratings

Alright, time to get this started. We have two new calcs that are going to... Once again, change the scaling of the top tier characters.

In the newest released chapter (332), Star and Stripe unleashes an attack that is 15.98 Gigatons (Island level).

In Heroes Rising, the Detroit Smash from 100% Izuku and Bakugo has been placed at 3.52 Gigatons (Large Mountain level+). We need to go over who scales to these, and why.

Easy part first, Shigaraki's dura scales to 100% due to taking countless 100% smashes while his body was weakened. He was severely injured, but this Izuku is stronger than his Heroes Rising self and he performed the 3.52 GT feat with the air pressure from his punch. Shigaraki took direct hits, so I believe he should scale to baseline High 7-A+ or 2.65 Gigatons.

Prime All Might would scale above this, and is likely comparable to current 100% Izuku. They'll either be baseline 6-C, or At least High 7-A+.

Now the hard part. The 15.98 GT attack, landed directly on a Near High-End Nomu. This Nomu took the full force of the attack and was survived, albeit it took massive damage, but its body remained intact. Since this explosion was made with 10 missiles, a single missile would only be 1.59 GT or High 7-A.

Proof that it did indeed survive comes from Radio Waves, which Shigaraki uses to give the Nomu a command. He commands it to blow itself up, which is does as ordered. This show that it was still alive and conscious enough to follow orders.

Considering its body remained intact from an explosion of 10 missile (15.98 GT), the Nomu should be durable enough to withstand a single missile. Also the Nomu was shown to be comparable to Shigaraki in terms of durability, being able to take the same attacks that injure Shigaraki with similar damage. So it should scale to his own durability of 2.65 GT or High 7-A+.

Now, the question is that should this Near High-End's durability should scale to the actual High-Ends like Hood and the Hospital High-Ends? There have been points for scaling, and against the scaling. I'm currently neutral about which scaling to use, but we need to hear from both sides and come to a conclusion in this thread.

Should the High-Ends scale to the Near High-End, agree or disagree?

Here is a sandbox for Star and Stripe, and other characters. These are not final, and will likely be updated as the thread goes on. Star and Stripe's profile can be discussed here, but will not be posted until the fight is over and her fate is confirmed.

Edit: The two above calcs have been changed, so now the results and scaling are different. The missile calc was redone to be 6.4 Gigatons, which means a single missile is now 640 MT or 7-A+. Shigaraki and those who scale will be 7-A+ now, and Heroes Rising feat was changed to 748 MT. You can read the scaling here.

Now there is also discussion about upscaling current 100% Izuku and Prime All Might to baseline High 7-A/1000 MT.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I agree with the OP.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

It begins, eh?

The rage, the outliers, the pain, the changed tiers in 3 weeks....

Another MHA CRT for the top tiers.

Come, my brothers and sisters. The time is nigh.

I agree with everything

 

[Damage3245]

Now, the question is that should this Near High-End's durability should scale to the actual High-Ends like Hood and the Hospital High-Ends? There have been points for scaling, and against the scaling. I'm currently neutral about which scaling to use, but we need to hear from both sides and come to a conclusion in this thread.

Leaving aside the rest of it from my perspective, this is the greatest issue.

Simply trying to make the scaling exist by default is the Association Fallacy to me. Because character A is a High-End Nomu and character B is a High-End Nomu, therefore they share the same stats.

But unless we have a statement saying all Nomu possess the same stats then this is baseless. Some Nomu having comparable feats in combat is not the same as that kind of statement either. Two students in Class 1-B could show themselves to be in the same tier in a fight, but we wouldn't group all students together with them because they're all humans, or they're all in the same class.


So I need to see some positive evidence for this point.

 

[Mapl3Sy4up]

I'd say so, while the high end's should have been advanced (given the time frame), the one in the USJ and Hood specifically were stated to be perfect and/or were finely crafted (as USJ was made for All Might specifically and His USJ appearance should at least be as strong as the one we've seen in Kamino and what we've seen from Joint Training Deku at the very least with Plus Ultra, as it's quoted that "every punch is over 100% of his power", whilst Hood was stated to be superior to the one in the USJ). This to me sees that the Nomu's should all scale

 

[KashinKojiiiiii]

Alright, time to get this started. We have two new calcs that are going to... Once again, change the scaling of the top tier characters.

In the newest released chapter (332), Star and Stripe unleashes an attack that is 15.98 Gigatons (Island level).

In Heroes Rising, the Detroit Smash from 100% Izuku and Bakugo has been placed at 3.52 Gigatons (Large Mountain level+). We need to go over who scales to these, and why.

Easy part first, Shigaraki's dura scales to 100% due to taking countless 100% smashes while his body was weakened. He was severely injured, but this Izuku is stronger than his Heroes Rising self and he performed the 3.52 GT feat with the air pressure from his punch. Shigaraki took direct hits, so I believe he should scale to baseline High 7-A+ or 2.65 Gigatons.

Prime All Might would scale above this, and is likely comparable to current 100% Izuku. They'll either be baseline 6-C, or At least High 7-A+.

Now the hard part. The 15.98 GT attack, landed directly on a Near High-End Nomu. This Nomu took the full force of the attack and was survived, albeit it took massive damage, but its body remained intact. Since this explosion was made with 10 missiles, a single missile would only be 1.59 GT or High 7-A.

Proof that it did indeed survive comes from Radio Waves, which Shigaraki uses to give the Nomu a command. He commands it to blow itself up, which is does as ordered. This show that it was still alive and conscious enough to follow orders.

Considering its body remained intact from an explosion of 10 missile (15.98 GT), the Nomu should be durable enough to withstand a single missile. Also the Nomu was shown to be comparable to Shigaraki in terms of durability, being able to take the same attacks that injure Shigaraki with similar damage. So it should scale to his own durability of 2.65 GT or High 7-A+.

Now, the question is that should this Near High-End's durability should scale to the actual High-Ends like Hood and the Hospital High-Ends? There have been points for scaling, and against the scaling. I'm currently neutral about which scaling to use, but we need to hear from both sides and come to a conclusion in this thread.

Here is a sandbox for Star and Stripe, and other characters. These are not final, and will likely be updated as the thread goes on. Star and Stripe's profile can be discussed here, but will not be posted until the fight is over and her fate is confirmed.

You kno what’s funny I had a thread being made jus now. Yea america brung the feats indeed and everything looks great rn, on top of that she doesn’t scale to prime all might and afo so that means they’re above her in terms of everything I’m guessing besides hax

 

[Mapl3Sy4up]

You kno what’s funny I had a thread being made jus now. Yea america brung the feats indeed and everything looks great rn, on top of that she doesn’t scale to prime all might and afo so that means they’re above her in terms of everything I’m guessing besides hax

Most definitely below her in hax, I don't think anything in the series could out-hax new order unless someone gets legitimate reality warping

 

[Alancaliber]

So I recently came across how explosion calculations are made with nuclear and non nuclear explosion on this , first off I'd like to say that these explosion are are likely nuclear because majority of icbms are,
Second I would like to see someone pls calculate how big the shock wave was and the distance it cleared in the sky also what counts as explosion radius is it the entire area it affected or only the initial fire ball someone should ready do the size scalings for these so we have proof or evidence
I agree with everything tho just want to give it evidence

 

[TheRustyOne]

Also, would E=M x C x Change in Temp, apply to bakugou? given that we known the explosions are atleast somewhat nitroglycerin based which has a density of 1.6g/cm^3 or 1600k/m^3 (correct me if I'm wrong on that) and a temperature of 5000 degrees Celsius

Do not bring up feats outside of what the OP mentions, the thread is going to be long enough as is. Also no, such a calc would be utterly pointless due to heat not scaling to physical durability or Attack Potency. I probably shouldn't have even answered this somewhat, but regardless this has no relevance here.

 

[Dalesean027]

Holy shit I agree completely

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

I’m in agreement with the OP btw

 

[Mapl3Sy4up]

Do not bring up feats outside of what the OP mentions, the thread is going to be long enough as is. Also no, such a calc would be utterly pointless due to heat not scaling to physical durability or Attack Potency. I probably shouldn't have even answered this somewhat, but regardless this has no relevance here.

ah ok, thanks I'll delete that

 

[KashinKojiiiiii]

All I care about is seeing MHA higher than Large Mountain since we have the feats now. No more downscaling our godtiers, they’re at the very least island tier scaling off those bombs that Shigaraki tanked who still isn’t at 100% meaning AFO > Shigaraki?

 

[Mapl3Sy4up]

All I care about is seeing MHA higher than Large Mountain since we have the feats now. No more downscaling our godtiers, they’re at the very least island tier scaling off those bombs

Same

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Leaving aside the rest of it from my perspective, this is the greatest issue.

Simply trying to make the scaling exist by default is the Association Fallacy to me. Because character A is a High-End Nomu and character B is a High-End Nomu, therefore they share the same stats.

But unless we have a statement saying all Nomu possess the same stats then this is baseless. Some Nomu having comparable feats in combat is not the same as that kind of statement either. Two students in Class 1-B could show themselves to be in the same tier in a fight, but we wouldn't group all students together with them because they're all humans, or they're all in the same class.


So I need to see some positive evidence for this point.

High Ends are noted to be superior to all other Nomu in terms of statistics. This includes the USJ Nomu that was on par with All Might, who Shigaraki is directly compared to.Mirio noted that the Near High Ends (which this Nomu is) are close in strength to Hood, meaning even Near High Ends are, physically speaking, comparable.

Miro made that observation after fighting numerous High Ends and aiding heroes all across the battlefield, so he has the best perspective on Near High End strength. The only person more knowledgeable on them would be Doctor Garaki, who has made no statements on the Near High Ends, but has made statements on other High Ends that makes them comparable to each other.

Another observation made was Aizawa noting that Shigaraki's strength was comparable to that of a perfected Nomu, and in his recollection of the strength of Nomu, he relates it to the USJ Nomu and the Hospital High End who broke his leg. He could accurately state the strength comparison between the top tiers to be comparable, as he understands the amount of damage they can do without their quirks.

So why would Mirio be incorrect in his analysis of the Near High Ends and their strength relative to Hood? Why would Aizawa, who has experienced their power first hand, be wrong in claiming High Ends and Shigaraki are comparable?

We have direct statements from people that have actually FOUGHT Near and complete High Ends that portrays them as comparable consistently. The burden of proof is upon you to prove that any one High End or Near High End is astronomically above any other in a certain way other than intellect, which is the main differing stat between Near and Complete High Ends

 

[Spinoirr]

Yeah I agree of course

 

[Damage3245]

All I care about is seeing MHA higher than Large Mountain since we have the feats now. No more downscaling our godtiers, they’re at the very least island tier scaling off those bombs that Shigaraki tanked who still isn’t at 100% meaning AFO > Shigaraki?

They're definitely not scaling to the bombs.

If we want to take what the chapter itself is telling us, then anybody else would have died to that attack. Possibly including All For One and All Might in that statement. Tomura only able to survive it thanks to a quick application of his Decay.

 

[Mapl3Sy4up]

High Ends are noted to be superior to all other Nomu in terms of statistics. This includes the USJ Nomu that was on par with All Might, who Shigaraki is directly compared to.Mirio noted that the Near High Ends (which this Nomu is) are close in strength to Hood, meaning even Near High Ends are, physically speaking, comparable.

Miro made that observation after fighting numerous High Ends and aiding heroes all across the battlefield, so he has the best perspective on Near High End strength. The only person more knowledgeable on them would be Doctor Garaki, who has made no statements on the Near High Ends, but has made statements on other High Ends that makes them comparable to each other.

Another observation made was Aizawa noting that Shigaraki's strength was comparable to that of a perfected Nomu, and in his recollection of the strength of Nomu, he relates it to the USJ Nomu and the Hospital High End who broke his leg. He could accurately state the strength comparison between the top tiers to be comparable, as he understands the amount of damage they can do without their quirks.

So why would Mirio be incorrect in his analysis of the Near High Ends and their strength relative to Hood? Why would Aizawa, who has experienced their power first hand, be wrong in claiming High Ends and Shigaraki are comparable?

We have direct statements from people that have actually FOUGHT Near and complete High Ends that portrays them as comparable consistently. The burden of proof is upon you to prove that any one High End or Near High End is astronomically above any other in a certain way other than intellect, which is the main differing stat between Near and Complete High Ends

I definitely agree with this

 

[Damage3245]

High Ends are noted to be superior to all other Nomu in terms of statistics. This includes the USJ Nomu that was on par with All Might, who Shigaraki is directly compared to.Mirio noted that the Near High Ends (which this Nomu is) are close in strength to Hood, meaning even Near High Ends are, physically speaking, comparable.

Miro made that observation after fighting numerous High Ends and aiding heroes all across the battlefield, so he has the best perspective on Near High End strength. The only person more knowledgeable on them would be Doctor Garaki, who has made no statements on the Near High Ends, but has made statements on other High Ends that makes them comparable to each other.

Another observation made was Aizawa noting that Shigaraki's strength was comparable to that of a perfected Nomu, and in his recollection of the strength of Nomu, he relates it to the USJ Nomu and the Hospital High End who broke his leg. He could accurately state the strength comparison between the top tiers to be comparable, as he understands the amount of damage they can do without their quirks.

So why would Mirio be incorrect in his analysis of the Near High Ends and their strength relative to Hood? Why would Aizawa, who has experienced their power first hand, be wrong in claiming High Ends and Shigaraki are comparable?

We have direct statements from people that have actually FOUGHT Near and complete High Ends that portrays them as comparable consistently. The burden of proof is upon you to prove that any one High End or Near High End is astronomically above any other in a certain way other than intellect, which is the main differing stat between Near and Complete High Ends

If you're arguing that the scaling is Shigaraki to the USJ Nomu, to other Nomu, then that's a completely different scaling argument to what I'm arguing against which is just scaling the Near-High End Nomu directly to the High-End Nomu.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

If you're arguing that the scaling is Shigaraki to the USJ Nomu, to other Nomu, then that's a completely different scaling argument to what I'm arguing against which is just scaling the Near-High End Nomu directly to the High-End Nomu.

That is included in the entirety of my argument. Shigaraki, USJ, Complete and Near High Ends are all comparable to each other, and have never been noted to be vastly stronger. The statements in my argument cover why this is the case.

 

[KashinKojiiiiii]

They're definitely not scaling to the bombs.

If we want to take what the chapter itself is telling us, then anybody else would have died to that attack. Possibly including All For One and All Might in that statement. Tomura only able to survive it thanks to a quick application of his Decay.

That was only becuz he was being hit by a super charged laser by S&S. If they’d started off with the bombs I don’t think Shigaraki would’ve died to said attack also A nomu got hit by that and is still seen not vaporized. PRIME AFO > that nomu

 

[Alancaliber]

If you're arguing that the scaling is Shigaraki to the USJ Nomu, to other Nomu, then that's a completely different scaling argument to what I'm arguing against which is just scaling the Near-High End Nomu directly to the High-End Nomu.

I mean ujiko stated(but never specified) that the difference between nearhigh ends and perfect high ends was intelligence, why should we assume that this is a perfect high end wasn't ujiko arrested I don't know if any other person can make nomus like him at least

 

[Damage3245]

That is included in the entirety of my argument. Shigaraki, USJ, Complete and Near High Ends are all comparable to each other, and have never been noted to be vastly stronger. The statements in my argument cover why this is the case.

I'll address only your arguments that are specifically going after the bit I'm disagreeing with then:

Mirio noted that the Near High Ends (which this Nomu is) are close in strength to Hood, meaning even Near High Ends are, physically speaking, comparable.
Miro made that observation after fighting numerous High Ends and aiding heroes all across the battlefield, so he has the best perspective on Near High End strength.

Mirio did not fight all Near High-Ends. He made his comment while fighting one of them and his comment was for its strength, not its durability. Either way, he can't be an authority for every single Near High-End.

Why would Mirio be incorrect? Maybe because he's not omniscient and he hasn't fought every single Nomu.

The only person more knowledgeable on them would be Doctor Garaki, who has made no statements on the Near High Ends, but has made statements on other High Ends that makes them comparable to each other.

When did he say all High Ends are comparable to each other in every way?

 

[TheRustyOne]

The Nomu Shigaraki riding on is one the Near High-Ends AFO escaped with, which apply to Mirio's statement. It isn't considered a proper High-End, but a Near High-End.

USJ Nomu is comparable to Shigaraki, meaning it scales to High 7-A+ as well. The High-Ends are also comparable to the USJ Nomu, so they should be High 7-A+ too.

Is that what I'm getting here?

 

[Damage3245]

The Nomu Shigaraki riding on is one the Near High-Ends AFO escaped with, which apply to Mirio's statement. It isn't considered a proper High-End, but a Near High-End.

USJ Nomu is comparable to Shigaraki, meaning it scales to High 7-A+ as well. The High-Ends are also comparable to the USJ Nomu, so they should be High 7-A+ too.

Is that what I'm getting here?

If we're going to be completely honest here, nobody ever once says that Shigaraki is comparable to the USJ Nomu.

Would be absolutely happy if somebody could post a statement proving otherwise. But Aizawa simply flashbacking to the USJ Nomu doesn't mean "These two characters are equal to each other."

Would would Doctor Garaki's Perfect Nomu (beyond a High-End) be comparable in stats to one of his Upper Tier Nomu?

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

I completely agree with the OP btw

 

[Alancaliber]

If we're going to be completely honest here, nobody ever once says that Shigaraki is comparable to the USJ Nomu.

Would be absolutely happy if somebody could post a statement proving otherwise. But Aizawa simply flashbacking to the USJ Nomu doesn't mean "These two characters are equal to each other."

Not gonna lie bro at this point it feels like Ur just denying everything u can, not saying u have a Vendetta but bruh,
The usj nomu was helped by its shock absorption so I'm not sure it's accurate to say it's as strong as all might even a weakened one, and I don't see what would stop ujiko from making all his nomus including shighy from being as strong as that nomu, not all might*

 

[TheRustyOne]

Aizawa agrees with Endeavor about Shigaraki being as powerful and durable as All Might, Aizawa's knowledge of All Might is his USJ self. And he flashes back to the USJ Nomu.

So him agreeing implies that USJ All Might is equal with Shigaraki, is this not correct?

 

[Gitagon]

If you're arguing that the scaling is Shigaraki to the USJ Nomu, to other Nomu, then that's a completely different scaling argument to what I'm arguing against which is just scaling the Near-High End Nomu directly to the High-End Nomu.

I don't think there is any large difference in strength between Near High-ends, actual High-ends, USJ Nomu, and current Shigaraki. I mean the difference might be there but in universe it would be so little that all these characters are practically comparable. It isn't a difference of tiers.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

I'll address only your arguments that are specifically going after the bit I'm disagreeing with then:



Mirio did not fight all Near High-Ends. He made his comment while fighting one of them and his comment was for its strength, not its durability. Either way, he can't be an authority for every single Near High-End.

Why would Mirio be incorrect? Maybe because he's not omniscient and he hasn't fought every single Nomu.



When did he say all High Ends are comparable to each other in every way?

This is false. He did not fight one Near High End, he fought many of them. You forget, he did not join the battle at Gigantomachia immediately. His first shown appearance was saving Burnin from a Near High End. He had been fighting them with the other pro heroes ever since he arrived, and also witnessed the other fights with the Near High Ends. He knows a lot more about Near High Ends than you are implying, so him making a comment on them should absolutely be taken seriously.

His overall claim about the High Ends were that their stats are higher than all other Nomus. When he refers to the Near High Ends, he only notes that while they are not complete, their strength is still ready. If anything, this would imply the Near High Ends are slightly weaker than the Complete High Ends, making this feat even more impressive.

 

[Damage3245]

Not gonna lie bro at this point it feels like Ur just denying everything u can, not saying u have a Vendetta but bruh,
The usj nomu was helped by its shock absorption so I'm not sure it's accurate to say it's as strong as all might even a weakened one, and I don't see what would stop ujiko from making all his nomus including shighy from being as strong as that nomu, not all might*

Not going to lie; I don't care. If your posts aren't going to contribute to the discussion then don't respond to me.

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

If we're going to be completely honest here, nobody ever once says that Shigaraki is comparable to the USJ Nomu.

Would be absolutely happy if somebody could post a statement proving otherwise. But Aizawa simply flashbacking to the USJ Nomu doesn't mean "These two characters are equal to each other."

Would would Doctor Garaki's Perfect Nomu (beyond a High-End) be comparable in stats to one of his Upper Tier Nomu?

The implication is literally clear as day. Aizawa, someone who literally fought the USJ nomu, considers the two to be in relativity. Also, there’s nothing suggesting that the Upper Tier Nomu have different quirks than each other

 

[Mapl3Sy4up]

Aizawa agrees with Endeavor about Shigaraki being as powerful and durable as All Might, Aizawa's knowledge of All Might is his USJ self.

So him agreeing means that USJ All Might is equal with Shigaraki, is this not correct?

This is fair, and summarizes my thoughts on the issue with Shigaraki being equal to USJ All Might

 

[Damage3245]

This is false. He did not fight one Near High End, he fought many of them. You forget, he did not join the battle at Gigantomachia immediately. His first shown appearance was saving Burnin from a Near High End. He had been fighting them with the other pro heroes ever since he arrived, and also witnessed the other fights with the Near High Ends. He knows a lot more about Near High Ends than you are implying, so him making a comment on them should absolutely be taken seriously.

His overall claim about the High Ends were that their stats are higher than all other Nomus. When he refers to the Near High Ends, he only notes that while they are not complete, their strength is still ready. If anything, this would imply the Near High Ends are slightly weaker than the Complete High Ends, making this feat even more impressive.

The only difference stated for the Near-High Ends is that they're not as intelligent and they haven't reached the testing stage.

Claiming they're on a lower order of strength/statistics is pure head-canon.

 

[Alancaliber]

Not going to lie; I don't care. If your posts aren't going to contribute to the discussion then don't respond to me.

Bro wat are u saying, chill don't pull out the nine, I brought something to the discussion if u actually look at it without being blinded by the fumes Ur emitting maybe you'd see that

 

[Kingofwolves999]

What evidence is there of any sort of difference between the High End Nomu?

The entirety of your premise hangs on the belief that a difference is even implied at all. You have no evidence that a difference in pure base statistics even exists, as well as no evidence to prove this particular Nomu had any advantage durability wise to make this feat not apply to its fellow High Ends.

Where is your own reasoning for the Nomu to not scale to each other?

 

[Damage3245]

Bro wat are u saying, chill don't pull out the nine, I brought something to the discussion if u actually look at it without being blinded by the fumes Ur emitting maybe you'd see that

I won't tolerate being dismissed as someone who has some kind of vendetta against the series. That is a blantant Ad Hominem attack.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

The only difference stated for the Near-High Ends is that they're not as intelligent and they haven't reached the testing stage.

Claiming they're on a lower order of strength/statistics is pure head-canon.

So you admit that physically, they should all be comparable? So why is the implication that their stats can wildly vary being brought up at all?

 

[Alancaliber]

And my other point still stands there is absolutely no reason to believ this is a perfect high end nomu and the only difference that we've been given between a perfect and a near one was intelligence

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

Absolutely nothing suggests that there’s any difference in the quirks of the High Ends. The only difference Hood has is that he’s more intelligent