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My Hero Academia: Final War Arc Revisions

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TheRustyOne

TheRustyOne

VS Battles
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Alright, time for the CRT so many people have been waiting for. Watch this thread somehow end up keeping them at 7-A+ or downgrade them even further.

Currently the Top and God Tiers are scaling to 7-A+ to High 7-A and High Hypersonic+ to Massively Hypersonic.

However, there are multiple accepted calculations that calls for a change to these stats.

Attack Potency​


100% OFA Disperses A Storm = 114.37 Gigatons of TNT (Large Island level)

Fist Bump To The Earth Splits Clouds = 139.35 Gigatons of TNT (Large Island level

Star and Stripe's Intercontinental Punch = 4.33 Teratons of TNT (Small Country level+)

A single missile would be 433 Gigatons of TNT.

Speed​


Lady Nagant's Bullet Speed (Final War Arc Feat) = Mach 18200 and Mach 17155 (Sub-Relativistic)

Edit: The Mach 18200 calc appears to be unusable, so we're only going with the Mach 17155 calc as of now.

Lady Nagant's Bullet Speed (Dark Hero Arc Feat) = Mach 148 or Mach 5941 (Massively Hypersonic to Massively Hypersonic+)

Edit: The Mach 5941 end has been accepted and will be a supporting calc for the Sub-Relativistic upgrades.

Lifting Strength​


Shigaraki's Jump: 6,274,634,164 Tons (Class T)

This is a supporting Lifting Strength calc for Class T. Considering Shigaraki did this as a side effect from his jump.

Let's discuss the speed first, since I think this will be more controversial.

As you can see above, we have two calcs that put Lady Nagant's bullets being in the Sub-Relativistic range, while this is higher than our current feats, it's still consistent. Lady Nagant fires three times, since Shigaraki gets hit by three bullets. So we know that the timeframes between for these shots was very short. Especially the last shot, as it's the most clear of them all.

A big point of contention here is the distance.

Currently, we have Lady Nagant's range as being 3 km, while the calculation has her firing from over 200 km away. I'm here to explain why this isn't that big of an issue. Our reasoning for her having a 3 km range comes from these statement by Snipe and Izuku. And I think there is a clear explanation here.

First off, Snipe isn't even saying her max range is 3 km. Just that she can pull off what his Quirk does from 3 km away. At most, this means her curving bullet skills from up to 3 km away are on par with his Homing Quirk. However, this doesn't mean she can't fire shots from a much greater distance.

While Izuku says her range is 3 km, he likely got this information from Snipe's statement. I'm pretty sure that's his flashback to watching that program. That's all he had to go off of, so saying her range is 3 km based on the information isn't incorrect. It's also possible that, due to her work, no one knows her real range. The safety commission could've kept details about her powers on the downlow, or she could've done so herself.

And there is no way that Lady Nagant was only 3 km away from them at this point.

We know for a fact that after Kurogiri left, Lady Nagant was in Central Hospital. Which is over 200 km away from the U.A. Flying Fortress, provided by a map Horikoshi himself drew. While Lady Nagant wasn't on the hospital roof when she fired, she literally couldn't have traveled far.

She was shown to be barely capable of walking, and we see that firing two shots made her wounds rip wide open. So she couldn't propel herself with her Quirk. We also know she couldn't be teleported: Kurogiri never came back, and we see Monoma is unconscious from Toga/Twice's attack.

With her low mobility and very small timeframe. Lady Nagant has no way of traveling over 200 km past multiple battlefields. The likely explanation is that Rock Lock helped her get to a taller building so she'd have a clear line of sight to the U.A. Fortress. Right now, everything points to her firing from this distance. We also have no statements or reason to believe she was superior to her normal self in this instant.

So I believe these calcs are good enough to use, agree or disagree?

Edit: This is only for the Mach 17155 calc now.

Agree: CloverDragon03, Kingofwolves999, Dalesean027, Bruh, SuperStar, Mazdoesstuff, Mapl3Sy4up, edutyn

Disagree:

Neutral: TheRustyOne, Damage3245,

The calculation in discussion right now is the Dark Hero Arc calc for Lady Nagant. We should decide which end we're going to use, as we're unsure which end should be used.

Note: In both cases we aren't assuming Lady Nagant's bullet blitzed Izuku's full speed and scaling him to that via circular reasoning. He isn't giving this everything he's got, he's just making a distraction for Lady Nagant. However, even Speed of Sound is massively lower than Izuku's speed.

Even when exhausted his Blackwhip could easily outpace sound waves from Jiro. I explained this better in the calculation itself. But I believe his Blackwhip being at least the speed of sound is possible. However, I don't mind if you think the low-end is a safer pick, so I'll just put myself down as being neutral on it. As I'm technically fine with using either ends.

Which end do you believe should be usable?

Low-End: Damage3245,

High-End: CloverDragon03, SuperStar, Kingofwolves999, Dalesean027, Bruh, Mapl3Sy4up, Therefir,

Neutral: TheRustyOne, KingTempest, Mazdoesstuff,

I have to bring this up, but there are two High 6-C ratings the characters can be upgraded to.

433 Gigatons or 139.35 Gigatons.

The 433 Gigatons come from the Tiamat Missile calc above, I'll explaining the reasoning for why now.

The Low 6-B attack was launched directly at the Near High-End Nomu and literally punched into it. While it did survive, the Nomu was left severely injured and is massively smaller than the missile; as such, we won't be directly scaling it to the Small Country level+ explosion. The scaling will focus on the 433 Gigatons results for a single missile. While Star's intention was to strike Shigaraki, her target ended up being the Near High-End Nomu, which was able to survive this attack from point-blank range (As close as physically possible to missiles over a few dozen times your size) and later followed Shigaraki's orders to self-destruct.

So we had previously agreed that its durability scales to at least one cruise missile. If one missile was enough to beat Shigaraki, Star wouldn't have wasted them all in a single attack. So Incomplete Shigaraki and High-Ends are suggested to scale to 433 GT.

Arguments against this scaling: Shigaraki or the Nomu literally cannot scale to the full value of even a single missile due to the unfortunate size difference between them. The Inverse Square Law prevents them from taking the full force, and as such, we cannot say a single missile couldn't kill them if the entire energy of the blast hit them. So yes, while a single missile wouldn't kill them without any doubt, we wouldn't know how much energy would hit them in that scenario.

I personally say we should just use the above 139.35 GT calc, and these missiles are just used a supporting calc. No one, besides Star's Giant Durability, would scale to the missiles.

So I ask you all, which do you agree with?

433 Gigatons Scaling: KingTempest, Shadowbokunohero, Bruh, Mazdoesstuff, Mapl3Sy4up,

139.35 Gigatons Scaling: TheRustyOne, Therefir, Dalesean027, Damage3245, edutyn, CloverDragon03, Kingofwolves999, Eseseso,

Neutral:

Edit: Now I'm going to move onto the scaling, there is a lot to go over so please look as much of this over as you can before making any decisions.

Now for the scaling. I'm not going to go over everything that's already been accepted and is being used. I will just generalize the changes and show sandboxes.

The accepted calculations are:

Deku's 100% Attack Potency (Joint Training Arc) - 114.37 Gigatons of TNT (Large Island level) (Supporting feat)

Near High-End Nomu's Durability - 139.35 Gigatons of TNT (Large Island level)

Intercontinental Cruise Punch's Attack Potency - 4.33 Teratons of TNT (Small Country level+) (Supporting feat for Tier 6 in general, no one scales to this)

Lady Nagant's Bullet Speed (Dark Hero Arc) - Mach 5941 - (Massively Hypersonic+) (Supporting feat)

Lady Nagant's Bullet Speed (Final War Arc) - Mach 17155 (Sub-Relativistic)

TLDR: all of the High Hypersonic+ to Massively Hypersonic characters will become Sub-Relativistic.

This is excluding Number 6 and Koichi, who don't scale to any of this. In fact Koichi's scaling to Endeavor was agreed to be removed awhile ago, as Endeavor wasn't attacking Koichi seriously as he never used his Flashfire Fist. So Koichi's second key speed rating will just scale to Overclock's normal speed.

The AP upgrades will turn all of the 7-A+ to High 7-A characters to High 6-C. The At most 7-A+ characters will downscale to baseline High 6-C, which is 100 GT.

Verse Page: Showing the numbers they all scale to.

Sandbox 1: The majority of characters who'll be scaling to High 6-C and Sub-Relativistic, both new and old.

Shoto's All-Out War key becomes his Final War Arc key, as there's no reason to have both of them.

Same is true for basically anyone else who has an All-Out War key or Final Act Saga key. Tsukuyomi is an exception, as he has a different rating from his Final War Arc self.

Sandbox 2: Burnin's profile concept, Gentle's profile update, along with the changes for Koichi's speed.

To explain Burnin's scaling. Onima and Burnin are holding back two different Hell Spider "webs", they aren't connected. So they're both holding back a single attack. Burnin' is holding the attack back and Kido is taking care of whatever gets passed her. She was also shown to be injured from fighting Near High-Ends for over half an hour.

Sandbox 3: 8-B characters who won't be High 6-C, but are being upgraded in some way or form. Either in speed or just higher into 8-B.

Twice's new look for his profile is being suggested as well. Having a varies rating for his Double Quirk as he can make clones of other people with different strength.

All Might: All Might profile updated, making it a different sandbox because tabbers really don't like | that symbol being used.

All For One: All For One's new profile, I've switched his keys around to match with All Might's.

Tomura Shigaraki: Shigaraki's new profile, and I have a suggestion regarding this. I propose Shiggy gets a separate profile for his AFO or Post-Surgery self.

Please take note of Shigaraki's new abilities as well. How does what I have look? Don't hesitate to give any suggestions if you agree.

Katsuki Bakugo (Final Act) and Katsuki Bakugo (Pre-Final Act): Yeah, that's right. I'm suggesting we split Bakugo's profile in the same way we do with Izuku's.

How does what I have look? Feel free to give any suggestions on improving this if you agree.

Izuku Midoriya (Final Act): Since we don't know what percentage he is using, we're rating his new usage of his Quirk as just One For All until we're told otherwise. If we get confirmation this is 100% Full Cowl we'll just label it as that, and if it isn't we'll label it by whatever percentage it is.

Take note of Izuku's new abilities with Gearshift as well.

5 Times Fa Jin : This was suggested to me recently and I had similar thoughts. It's believed that Izuku's max Fa Jin energy storage should be 5X his own AP. As Izuku was capable of storing the energy from his Detroit Smash Quintuple, which was 5 rapid Detroit Smashes. With Gearshift it's an unknown amount higher, but Fa Jin should have a "max" limit of 5X his own AP. This suggestion would raise 45% Izuku's Fa Jin to 500 Gigatons.

Note: Faux 100% is not 500 GT in this case, just that 500 GT would be the max amount of energy he can store and unleash. As we aren't told Faux 100% was his max limit. Especially when he charged that energy just by flexing his legs or with repeated squats.

If this somehow leads to stacking "multipliers", I'm going to give a disagree faster than Gearshift.

Current Izuku's Fa Jin would be 696.75 GT and Large Island level+. This currently wouldn't scale to anyone, as this attack blew a hole into Shigaraki's body. Shigaraki might scale with his Quirks in the future, but I highly doubt anyone else except for that would scale to this.

Agree or Disagree with this?

High 6-C Upgrades​


Agree: TheRustyOne, Dalesean027, Therefir, Kingofwolves999, SuperStar, CloverDragon03, Eseseso, Mapl3Sy4up, Bruh, Shadowbokunohero, Mazdoesstuff, Maverick_Zero_X, DemonGodMitchAubin,

Disagree:

Neutral:

Sub-Relativistic Upgrades​


Agree: Dalesean027, Therefir, Kingofwolves999, SuperStar, CloverDragon03, Eseseso, Mapl3Sy4up, Bruh, Mazdoesstuff, Maverick_Zero_X, DemonGodMitchAubin,

Disagree:

Neutral: TheRustyOne, Shadowbokunohero,

Split Profiles For Shigaraki and Bakugo​


Agree: TheRustyOne, Dalesean027, Therefir, Kingofwolves999, SuperStar, CloverDragon03, Eseseso, Shadowbokunohero, Mapl3Sy4up, Bruh, Mazdoesstuff, Maverick_Zero_X, DemonGodMitchAubin,

Disagree:

Neutral:

Quintuple Fa Jin Energy Rating​


Agree: TheRustyOne, Dalesean027, Therefir, Kingofwolves999, SuperStar, CloverDragon03, Eseseso, Mapl3Sy4up, Bruh, Shadowbokunohero, Mazdoesstuff, Maverick_Zero_X, DemonGodMitchAubin,

Disagree:

Neutral:

Not sure how else to phrase that. This is about Burnin getting a profile for herself along with the changes to Gentle and Koichi.

Agree: TheRustyOne, Dalesean027, Therefir, Kingofwolves999, SuperStar, CloverDragon03, Eseseso, Mapl3Sy4up, Bruh, Shadowbokunohero, Mazdoesstuff, Maverick_Zero_X, DemonGodMitchAubin,

Disagree:

Neutral:

Do not hesitate to tell me your opinions, if you think something is wrong or maybe there could be more or maybe that I'm missing something.
 
Last edited:
We were never waiting until it was over, just when we reached an agreeable spot.

The series is close to the end and most of the scaling and feats have been given.

Any new feats at this point will likely not shake or change a large amount of the character's ratings in an unimaginable way.

Also the majority of these feats take place before the Final War Arc.
 
I agree with the 139.35 Gigatons scaling, but my opinion might change if the anime shows the epicenter of the explosion occurring at the tip of the missiles.

Unsure what to do about the Relativistic feat.
 
CloverDragon03 said:
That thread is irrelevant to this, especially the Sub-Rel calc
Click to expand...
Nah read more in the thread
Part of it is substituting speeds of characters just for calcs
Substituting Shigaraki's for 34.3 m/s
Substituting Midoriya's speed for 343 m/s
I think the only one that works is the low end for this since it uses a speed found in the feat
 
I'm perfectly fine with going with the Massively Hypersonic+ low-end.

Also if we use Average Human Speed of Shigaraki's speed in the two Lady Nagant calcs, we also get Massively Hypersonic+ so it'd be consistent.

Since I don't see how that would be any kind of issue. Worst case scenario we can use a 1 second timeframe and that'd be Mach 600+.

What do the calc group members think on this? I knew all of you were going to say this, I just had to wait until you did. That is why I labeled myself as neutral.
 
KingTempest said:
Nah read more in the thread
Part of it is substituting speeds of characters just for calcs
Substituting Shigaraki's for 34.3 m/s
Substituting Midoriya's speed for 343 m/s
I think the only one that works is the low end for this since it uses a speed found in the feat
Click to expand...
Nah it's pretty justified here.

These are characters that create sonic booms. Since it's pretty justified here, I (once again) feel this is irrelevant
 
This all seems agreeable to me and im fine with the 139 gigaton scaling, I'm not really hung up over a specifc end for the nagant calc
 
Damage3245 said:
Were they creating sonic booms at the time of the feats that were calced?
Click to expand...
I hate "sonic booms" so much. Since 90% of the time they're just fancy visual effects to make something look more impactful or cool.

I used speed of sound since Izuku's Blackwhip actually outpaces sound waves in canon, while he was heavily exhausted.

There was also no sonic boom when he did outpace sound.
 
Damage3245 said:
Were they creating sonic booms at the time of the feats that were calced?
Click to expand...
This is irrelevant. The forms they're in scale above characters who create such sonic booms (for instance, the Dark Hero Arc feat being done toward 45% Deku, who is way above 20% Deku who can create shock waves)
 
I'm pretty sure all of the attack potency feats are fine

Shigaraki's lifting strength is insane (not saying it's flawed, I'm just saying that's incredible), calc being accepted works

Speed for the low end for that one looks fine and it's consistent enough with the current values
CloverDragon03 said:
Nah it's pretty justified here.

These are characters that create sonic booms. Since it's pretty justified here, I (once again) feel this is irrelevant
Click to expand...
I won't turn this into a continuation of the other thread but this is pretty much what I'll grab from there

Basically, said character has a speed on their profile (for Shigaraki, High Hypersonic)
Using his speed for the calc would be calc stacking
So instead they hide the calculation by trying to find an even lower speed for the calculation (34.3 m/s), then using that

It's not the exact same as the other one which was intended for close range combat, but still counts as hiding calculations

Even the logic behind it is straight hiding calculations
Now that we have both the distances for the bullet and Shigaraki's arm, we just need to find a speed for the latter. As we already know Shigaraki is as fast as Prime All Might, but he was weakened during this scene, as his arm was ripped apart by the bullet, when his head easily tanked and shattered the bullet on contact, so I'll be using Subsonic speeds for Shigaraki's arm (34.3 m/s).
Click to expand...
5% Izuku is capable of dodging bullets, and can move fast enough to catch fire. (It's not just an effect, the metal he kicked was shown to be heated)

Izuku's 20% Air Force attacks are called shock waves, which means they travel faster than the speed of sound.

Izuku is using 45% in this moment, which is vastly faster to his 5% and 20%.

45% can easily outpace a sound attack from Jirou while heavily exhausted.

For this calc I believe it's safe to say his Blackwhip is moving at the speed of sound (343 m/s).
Click to expand...

Now if he created legitimate sonic booms during the feat, then it's fine, as that'd be a valid lowball for his movement during the feat
I'd even accept it if the anime was showing it

But at the moment it's a clear practice of hiding calculations
 
Its not even a forms thing tbh since deku while even more weakened hungry exhauseted and sleep deprived than he was here literally still drastically outpaced like actual sound and had hypersonic feats quite casually
 
Dalesean027 said:
Its not even a forms thing tbh since deku while even more weakened hungry exhauseted and sleep deprived than he was here literally still drastically outpaced like actual sound and had hypersonic feats quite casually
Click to expand...
I guess we can say "his canon speed is faster than sound" for this then. Not a fan but w/e

Please don't send a half page argument against my points above, I'm fine with the 343 substitute
 
KingTempest said:
Basically, said character has a speed on their profile (for Shigaraki, High Hypersonic)
Using his speed for the calc would be calc stacking
So instead they hide the calculation by trying to find an even lower speed for the calculation (34.3 m/s), then using that

It's not the exact same as the other one which was intended for close range combat, but still counts as hiding calculations

Even the logic behind it is straight hiding calculations



Now if he created legitimate sonic booms during the feat, then it's fine, as that'd be a valid lowball for his movement during the feat
I'd even accept it if the anime was showing it

But at the moment it's a clear practice of hiding calculations
Click to expand...
I'm gonna be blunt here: this is ridiculous.

At this point, let's make everything a form of hiding calculations. I'm not gonna agree to an unrealistic lowball just because of this. They don't need to do this stuff during the feat for it to be legitimate
 
TheRustyOne said:
I'm perfectly fine with going with the Massively Hypersonic+ low-end.

Also if we use Average Human Speed of Shigaraki's speed in the two Lady Nagant calcs, we also get Massively Hypersonic+ so it'd be consistent.

Since I don't see how that would be any kind of issue. Worst case scenario we can use a 1 second timeframe and that'd be Mach 600+.

What do the calc group members think on this? I knew all of you were going to say this, I just had to wait until you did. That is why I labeled myself as neutral.
Click to expand...
1 second works for me if we can't use the other assumed speeds.
 
CloverDragon03 said:
Wait I didn't even realize that the speed used was 34.3 m/s not 343 m/s, my brain died
Click to expand...
Yes, we used 34.3 instead of 343 because Shigaraki was apparently weakened at this point.

One could argue Deku was also really weakened when he performed the sound outspeed feat.
 
Therefir said:
Yes, we used 34.3 instead of 343 because Shigaraki was apparently weakened at this point.
Click to expand...
I agree with this yes, Shigaraki was very weakened by this point

I also wouldn't call this hiding a calculation because even if calc stacking was allowed, it'd be inaccurate to use his calculated speed due to being weakened like this
 
KingTempest

You said the AP feats were fine, but do you agree with the single missile 433 GT rating or the 139.35 GT rating?

You did say you're alright with the Speed of Sound for Lady Nagant's feat against Izuku in the Dark Hero Arc.

But what about the two Sub-Relativistic Calcs against Shigaraki that Lady Nagant did? Are you fine with them or not?
 
TheRustyOne said:
KingTempest

You said the AP feats were fine, but do you agree with the single missile 433 GT rating or the 139.35 GT rating?
Click to expand...
433 GT looks good to me
TheRustyOne said:
You did say you're alright with the Speed of Sound for Lady Nagant's feat against Izuku in the Dark Hero Arc.
Click to expand...
Lemme rephrase. I don't fully agree with it, but if it follows the standards well enough then I can let it slide
TheRustyOne said:
But what about the two Sub-Relativistic Calcs against Shigaraki that Lady Nagant did? Are you fine with them or not?
Click to expand...
Depends on this question here

Does the peak health version of Shigaraki (specifically the key that "when weakened" was being hit by the bullet in both calcs) scale to those calcs in any way, shape, or form?
 
I'll go with the 139.35 Gigatons Scaling, the Low End on the Dark Hero Arc feat, and neutral on the Final War Arc feat for now.
 
TheRustyOne said:
I'll put you as Neutral for the Speed of Sound one then. Is that alright?
Click to expand...
That's fine
TheRustyOne said:
Shigaraki would scale to that calc yes. Since his speed, when not slowed, is on par with Prime All Might, which is a speed that can outpace Nagant's bullets in canon.
Click to expand...
Can't agree with it then

The logic for his speed even being allowed to be FTE is based on 2 things
While Shigaraki is on par with All Might, who is faster than sound. He appears to be moving much slower in this scene.

We can see he's trembling as he reaches towards the ground.

Shigaraki before his surgery can move faster than the eye can track, which is baseline Subsonic (34.3 m/s).

I highly doubt his superhuman enhanced body became slower than his normal speed.
Click to expand...
and
Now that we have both the distances for the bullet and Shigaraki's arm, we just need to find a speed for the latter. As we already know Shigaraki is as fast as Prime All Might, but he was weakened during this scene, as his arm was ripped apart by the bullet, when his head easily tanked and shattered the bullet on contact, so I'll be using Subsonic speeds for Shigaraki's arm (34.3 m/s).
Click to expand...

But I don't see anything saying he was ridiculously weakened or anything

The calculation has the bullet moving 171,557 times faster than the weakened Shigaraki.
From my experience reading MHA, there isn't consistency in Shigaraki's states having a gap that big between his weakened and healthy self.
Especially when his weakened self is still comparable to the foes he's fighting.

I can't agree with it unless it was a speed of something like him just freefalling or something, which wouldn't even be slightly related to his speed, which would make this much more valid. Being almost 200k times faster than freefall is fine.

But saying a "weakened" Shigaraki is 34.3 m/s, getting a calc that says "this bullet is 171,557x faster than Shigaraki" since it's straight calcing the bullet in relation to Shigaraki's speed, then scaling healthy Shigaraki to it

It's outlandish to me
 
He's weakened because he's visually trembling and is obviously not moving fast at all.

He was also just unparalyzed from when he inverted/molted his skin. He's still fighting for control from AFO at that point which is why his body is slower. We know for a fact that when Vestiges rebel the main body becomes slower, as shown with AFO when his Quirks started rebelling against him.

His body wasn't moving the way he wanted it to. So I'm pretty sure the same thing is happening here, Shigaraki is taking back control and now the body won't move as either of them want to. It takes a lot of effort for Shigaraki to just force himself to touch the ground, as shown by his entire body trembling as he does so.

It's 100% canon that he's faster than the bullet and 45% Izuku, yet that bullet was able to hit his hand from over 200 km away while he was moving.

Either he's actually slower based on the above evidence or Horikoshi was just drunk when he drew this scene. Don't take that the wrong way, I'm just joking.
 
While it's granted that Shigaraki was significantly slower than usual... Wouldn't the safest course be to consider that his speed at that moment is unknown? (What makes his speed to be more likely to be 34.3 m/s than it is to be 25 m/s or 50 m/s? Who says for sure he is moving at baseline Subsonic speeds in that scene?) I don't think we can use him reliably for the calc.
 
Damage3245 said:
While it's granted that Shigaraki was significantly slower than usual... Wouldn't the safest course be to consider that his speed at that moment is unknown? (What makes his speed to be more likely to be 34.3 m/s than it is to be 25 m/s or 50 m/s? Who says for sure he is moving at baseline Subsonic speeds in that scene?) I don't think we can use him reliably for the calc.
Click to expand...
I brought up a timeframe of 1 second and also suggested normal human speed.

What would you suggest? This is a good feat and shouldn't be ignored, at least I believe so.

Honestly, I do find the Subsonic speed usage as iffy as well. That's why I'm neutral on it.

When the anime version comes out, I'll probably updated it to use Shiggy's on screen speed. Assuming they don't make it a still frame or use slow motion.
 
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