Movie 12 Gogeta and Janemba scaling in regards to Buuhan's tier 2 feat

[SSJGeminiJJ]

When are we accepting FR to take place? Before Super Buu appears? If that's the case I think 2-C Fat Janemba is kinda iffy because that means he got obliterated by a mid Buu Saga SSJ3 Goku, whereas we've established that 2-C SSJ3 Goku isn't a thing till he went all out and matched Kid Buu. I think it should go "High 3-A via reality warping (or just a solid High 3-A scaling him to SSJ3 Goku shaking the Afterlife) and then the solid 2-C for Super Janemba.

 

[Golden_Void]

**** it, it was closed, so OP, add this stuff.


Thus making his "Big Bang" explosion 2-C even more supported.

Just want to say other staff members and I argued against these same points (for Gogeta) this ages ago. Even if the tier is correct, the scans don't represent those claims.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Just want to say other staff members and I argued against these same points (for Gogeta) this ages ago. Even if the tier is correct, the scans don't represent those claims.

It was done on the basis that "but Hell isn't universe sized" when is clearly BS.

 

[Golden_Void]

It was done on the basis that "but Hell isn't universe sized" when is clearly BS.

That's not the case and I don't want to derail so we can discuss that elsewhere. Unless this is the thread for that since your other one was closed.

 

[StrymULTRA]

That's not the case and I don't want to derail so we can discuss that elsewhere. Unless this is the thread for that since your other one was closed.

It's supportive evidence for the 2-C rating bud.

 

[Omegas03]

If the baseline for 2-C is Buuhan and we consider that Gohan makes up more than half of Buuhans power, then even SS1 Goku post defusion would be like 25x above Buuhan, but I don’t personally think this Goku scales.

He should. The statement that confirms Janemba > Hirudegarn uses SSJ3 Goku as a reference. M12 = M13 Goku imo

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

It was done on the basis that "but Hell isn't universe sized" when is clearly BS.

Hell isn't universe sized tho.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

Hell's size shouldn't even matter when the explosion of his Ki's shown to reach as far as Earth, which would be 2-C range for it.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Hell isn't universe sized tho.

It should still be High 3-A though.

 

[NollsyWasRobbed2003]

I personally disagree with Janemba being upgraded at least. The website’s reasoning behind Janemba being stronger than Hirudegarn assumes Goku from Fusion Reborn is equal to Goku from Wrath of the Dragon. Even though Fusion Reborn’s timeline placement is like midway through the Buu Saga in an alternate dimension (Goku & Vegeta are both dead, no SSJ3 Gotenks & Ultimate Gohan, it’s release date, etc). FR Goku who needs Super Saiyan 3 to surpass Base Janemba, who should only be above Fat Buu is by no means equal to WoTD Goku, who scales above Gotenks, Gohan and to Kid Buu & Buuhan as he’s post-Buu Saga. As for Gogeta, I don’t really have an opinion lol.

 

[NollsyWasRobbed2003]

**** it, it was closed, so OP, add this stuff.

Janemba

So, we know that Janemba has completely distorted the Afterlife, and I believe that it is a Low 2-C for the following reasons:

• When he was born, the afterlife was instantly warped, including Hell, with said power implied to be generated with the evil ki that Janemba was made from.
• Janemba and his warp are directly linked to each other, as shown that insults affect both his warp and his physical body, and when he died, the warp he has generated came away in less than 30 minutes.
• Janemba is also shown to being able to manipulate said afterlife.

As a supportive thing, Goku when he became SSJ3 warped by himself the afterlife as well, just not to the extent Janemba did.

Not to mention that base Janemba is said to have the strongest ki Goku has ever felt, with him saying that only Majin Buu has pushed him that far. I dunno if that applies to Kid Buu though, so that's up to y'all. Besides he should be Low 2-C at absolute minimum.

Gogeta

Gogeta has quite the feat here.

He is stated that his birth is so strong that it is comparable to the Big Bang itself.



While from its own is pretty vague, I think that "Big Bang" here reffers to the 2-C macrocosm, as his power covered the Otherworld and could be felt also on the living universe.



Plus, he is said to be the strongest fusion of all, which means that he'd be superior to Super Vegito, who could be argued being on the levels of at least Baby Arc SSJ4 Goku (Yeah, fusions in DBZ are broken asf)



Thus making his "Big Bang" explosion 2-C even more supported.

I will also just say from this. The statement that is comparing “Merging with Vegeta” to “Super Saiyan 4” is comparing them as power boosts off of Base Goku. Hence why it uses present tense and talks about them as forms of Goku on a page that does exactly that.
The other interpretation wouldn’t make any sense either, Super Vegetto who actually had to try to stop Enraged Buuhan is somehow in the same league as a Goku who’s over 2,500x (?) stronger than this Buu in Base and is using a vastly stronger form on top of that?

 

[StrymULTRA]

The other interpretation wouldn’t make any sense either, Super Vegetto who actually had to try to stop Enraged Buuhan is somehow in the same league as a Goku who’s over 2,500x (?) stronger than this Buu in Base and is using a vastly stronger form on top of that?

You do realize that Vegito was never remotely serious, right? Besides, fusions are just that OP in Toei continuity.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

You do realize that Vegito was never remotely serious, right? Besides, fusions are just that OP in Toei continuity.

Vegito still admitted that one of Buuhan's stronger attacks would have damaged him, had he not opted to evade it using IT
Even if we ignore that, Baby's most powerful saiyan line kinda still contradicts it

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Btw should Fusion Reborn Gogeta get the Afterlife residents' abilities? Like Type 7 Immortality and Regen?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Btw should Fusion Reborn Gogeta get the Afterlife residents' abilities? Like Type 7 Immortality and Regen?

No.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

No.

An explanation would be most appreciated, considering Gogeta is made by two guys who have these abilities

 

[Damage3245]

2-C = Buuhan < Kid Buu ~ SS3 Goku

I'm not too familiar with the Toei continuity to be honest... but does the anime not still have Goku depend on having to make a fusion with someone to even stand a chance against Buutenks? Just like in the manga?

Isn't it a plothole in the anime that SS3 Goku could be superior to Buuhan who is superior to Buutenks?

 

[StrymULTRA]

An explanation would be most appreciated, considering Gogeta is made by two guys who have these abilities

Oh ****, I've read "should Janemba get the Afterlife residents' abilities" lol.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Isn't it a plothole in the anime that SS3 Goku could be superior to Buuhan who is superior to Buutenks?

Unlike the manga, SSJ3 Goku fights Buutenks in the anime, but Buutenks still handles him as easily as Gohan, so yeah
We kinda explain the sudden powerjump as Goku and Vegeta getting Zenkais after fully healing as Vegito and all that jazz

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

I just don’t think Goku matters in the scaling, Janemba almost killed him and quickly incapacitated him, wether Goku is weaker or Stronger than Kid Buu doesn’t directly contradict the notion of Janemba being > Hirudegarn as per the guide statement.

Goku with 1/100th of his power gone from being inside Buu clapped Ultimate Gohan and 1/100th of Vegeta’s power clapped Gotenks

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

I'm not too familiar with the Toei continuity to be honest... but does the anime not still have Goku depend on having to make a fusion with someone to even stand a chance against Buutenks? Just like in the manga?

Isn't it a plothole in the anime that SS3 Goku could be superior to Buuhan who is superior to Buutenks?

Post-Vegito Division bullshit. Also Kid Buu is stated to be the strongest incarnation of Buu in the Toei continuity for whatever reason

 

[Omegas03]

bump

 

[NollsyWasRobbed2003]

You do realize that Vegito was never remotely serious, right? Besides, fusions are just that OP in Toei continuity.

I would consider him to be more than just “remotely” serious here. And I mean Toei fusions are OP, but so is SSJ4 apparently. In GT, Vegeta implies that only SS4 Gogeta can defeat Omega. SS3 GT Gogeta being not enough for a guy not even x10 Goku/Vegeta as SS4s as well as that Vegito statement further cements Fusions & Super Saiyan 4 rivalling each other.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

No matter how busted fusions are in the Toei continuity, there is VERY little reason for Buu Saga Vegito to be stronger than Super Saiyan 4 Goku considering how wildly inconsistent it would be with the multipliers

 

[Omegas03]

Considering how OP toei thinks fusions are, I find it definitely possible for Gogeta and Vegito to be powerhouses up to SSJ4 tier in GT. nothing actually contradicts it really

 

[Omegas03]

even if they aren't really ssj4 level they still scale to base baby vegeta

 

[BlastX]

It gets contradicted by the actual show though.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Considering how OP toei thinks fusions are, I find it definitely possible for Gogeta and Vegito to be powerhouses up to SSJ4 tier in GT. nothing actually contradicts it really

It was just pointed out that that is EXTREMELY inconsistent with the multipliers. Why would one 50 times multiplier make him go from Buuhan tier to Super Saiyan 4 tier? There's three 50 times multipliers in the GT scaling chain prior to Super Saiyan 4, thus Super Vegito has no business being that strong

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

It was just pointed out that that is EXTREMELY inconsistent with the multipliers. Why would one 50 times multiplier make him go from Buuhan tier to Super Saiyan 4 tier? There's three 50 times multipliers in the GT scaling chain prior to Super Saiyan 4, thus Super Vegito has no business being that strong

Guess Toei multipliers are inconsistent!

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Well, we have 3 staff agreements for Janemba and Gogeta to get the upgrade. I suggest we get that done and leave the other stuff for another thread.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Well, we have 3 staff agreements for Janemba and Gogeta to get the upgrade. I suggest we get that done and leave the other stuff for another thread.

Isn’t that basically everything? What else do we need to do?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Isn’t that basically everything? What else do we need to do?

The stuff Strym brought up and Vegito and Gogeta scaling to Ssj4 things.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

The stuff Strym brought up and Vegito and Gogeta scaling to Ssj4 things.

Well that doesn’t really matter since they’re 2-C without it Eh that’s not that big of a deal and I think that doesn’t really work with the Baby statement

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

So yeah, 2-C can be applied to fat janemba, super janemba and Toei Gogeta

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Well, we have 3 staff agreements for Janemba and Gogeta to get the upgrade. I suggest we get that done and leave the other stuff for another thread.

Done.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

So yeah, 2-C can be applied to fat janemba, super janemba and Toei Gogeta

I don't recall any agreement on Fat Janemba being 2-C

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I don't recall any agreement on Fat Janemba being 2-C

Fair enough. Will be closing this then.