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Meliodas vs Natsu

What's the deal with Full Counter here? Natsu not getting hurt by his own fire is a non factor. It still takes away his main method of attack regardless if it'll hurt him or not. That'll only leave him with cqc where he'll be at a disadvantage due to Mel already having experience with people who fight like Natsu. Not to mention that Natsu's pain tolerance isn't very high either, dude almost died because of a tumor and hasn't shown any impressive endurance feats. Meanwhile Mel has both, Mel takes this
 
The Prince of Counters said:
Mel already having experience with people who fight like Natsu.

dude almost died because of a tumor and hasn't shown any impressive endurance feats. Meanwhile Mel has both, Mel takes this
Click to expand...
Who?

When did Mel tank a tumor?

"hasn't shown any impressive endurance feats"

"Stamina: Extremely large (Has been shown to fight multiple opponents without resting and continue fighting despite taking severe and life-threatening injuries. Used several consecutive spells against Gildarts and even after being hit by his disassembly magic, he managed to use his secret art without showing any signs of exhaustion. Battled Cobra for a long period of time while being affected by his poison. Used a secret art in his Lightning Flame Dragon Mode against Hades even after using nearly all his magic and being nearly immobile. Battled Acnologia alongside his guild with little time to rest and without fully healing his injuries from his previous fight. Battled Jackal even after being hits by multiple of his explosions. Fought through the second day of the war against the Alvarez Empire, including opponents the likes of the remaining members of the Spriggan 12, Zeref and Acnologia [with only one rest due to being in a coma from nearly becoming a demon] and still had little strength left despite using advanced-level spells and suffering severe wounds)."
 
This is Meliodas's stamina description on the other hand.

"Stamina: Very high. On more than one occasion he has taken long barrages of attacks from comparable or stronger characters in order to receive as much damage as possible, and kept fighting | Extremely high as the Demon King"
 
The Calaca said:
I'm just gonna say this: Natsu's pool of magic isn't infinite. If he can't absorb his own reflected magic, he's going to eventually lose all his energy.
Click to expand...
Those flame isn't natsu flame anymore since its amped by meliodas power and their ap is increase, he increase its potency, unlike normal attack relfection. Neither meliodas have infinite magic pool.

@EmperorRorepme

  • He didn't shown to use vanish counter on any strong attack
  • And there is a high chance that if Meliodas use Revenge counter, natsu just endup burning that attack as well
  • Natsu have reg-neg and meliodas healing is based on his stamina, he can't heal like ban
 
The Prince of Counters said:
dude almost died because of a tumor and hasn't shown any impressive endurance feats.
Click to expand...
Goku dies from heart disease

Meliodas didn't dies from any heart disease

Meliodas>goku
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
I think Meliodas has only used Vanish Counter one time throughout the entire series.
Click to expand...
Against that old guy, he didn't use vanish counter on demon handy black ice either which was eventually killing everyone
 
Schnee One said:
Considering like....All of Natsu's attacks are magical or imbued with Magic, Natsu getting past counter will be borderline impossible, his best bet is AoE nuking around Mel but he usually prefers CQC and he doesn't really have the mobility advantage to stay away forever.
Meliodes FRA
Click to expand...
Meliodas needs to swing his sword to full counter. So at CQC, I hardly imagine him Full Counter even half of the attacks. Actually, unlike Estarossa, I don't remember any feats of CQC Full Counter from him (can he even?). Even then, the only magical part in Natsu's fire punch is the fire, so Full Countering a fire punch just means you let your opponent punching you in the face without guarding.

@EmperorRorepme : Natsu has Regenerationn negation on his profile. And I covered the Revenge Counter-thing: even if Natsu only has x2 the AP instead of x4, large AP gap can prevent Mel to carry out the Revenge (If right before Revenge: he loses both arms or a leg. Or can't stand because his spine or ribs are no more. Or gets knocked down. Or gets knocked out. Or dies.)

@The Calaca : Lastly, the stamina/endurance/run out of energy-thing is a non-factor. Natsu can fight for a day, so let's cover the 2 possibilities:

1/ Meliodas Stamina > Natsu Stamina. Then stamina won't be an issue since they both can fight for a day and I don't see how the fight can last more than a day.

2/ Meliodas Stamina < Natsu's. Natsu will not run out of energy/endurance/stamina.

This is clearly a non-factor.
 
Mel has stayed conscious while having limbs severed. Natsu's pain tolerance isn't impressive nor has he ever received any severe wound that are open. Using his profile to argue is arguing semantics at best.
 
The profile was a point to "Natsu doesn't have any endurance feats". Mel has Mid regen, he can be conscious without a head, it has nothing to do with stamina or endurance.
 
Regen doesn't grant you resistance to pain. You'll still feel pain just like anyone but you'll simply regenerate. Look at the fight against the 10D and his first fight against Estarossa. Mel took quite the ******* beating, Natsu almost died due to a tumor. Natsu was showing blatant pain once Cobra poisoned him. Also none of Natsu's fights ever last long, at best they last a few minutes. I dont recall Natsu ever even being shown to fight for longer than an hour.
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
Yes, but how would getting his arm cut off make him pass out when his regen means he doesn't even if he doesn't have a head.
Click to expand...


From the sheer pain of receiving an injury such as dismemberment. Even with regen you'd still need to respond to the pain properly.
 
Natsu's Regenerationn negation isn't said to cover Meliodas' level on the profile. Natsu always fights with Magic so Mel can just keep full countering his magic and using counter vanish to nullify it. Meliodas can get more powerful when damaged through emotions and he can use darkness to amp his statistics and defences so both these closen the AP gap. Natsu doesn't know about Revenge Counter and AP gap isn't enough to one-shot whilst Meliodas can keep regenerating if he wishes or just fight whilst heavily damaged like he normally does.
 
Meliodas has full countered Escanor's point blank Cruel Sun. And he also has Lostvayne which can create clones that full counter for him.

As I said before Natsu having an AP advantage is debatable. Since their AP are as followed.

Seven Flames Fire Natsu defeated Post-SBT Absorption Human Acnologia who is at least twice as strong as his original Human Form which is stronger than Base Zeref. Base Zeref is stronger than Dark Form August who is in turn stronger than Dragon Irene who is 2.1 Teratons.

True Magic Meliodas is stated to be comparable to Demon King not sure 50% or 100% but we're assuming 50% for now though he might become comparable to Full Power Demon King Zeldris in the future chapters. 50% Demon King is much stronger than Post-Purgatory Demon Mark Meliodas who is at least over 2x stronger than Post-Purgatory Base Meliodas. Post-Purgatory Base Meliodas was easily beating Demon King Zeldris. Demon King Zeldris is stated to be somewhat comparable to Demon King Meliodas who is capable of effortlessly overpowering both True Wings King and Afternoon Mael at the same time. Afternoon Mael was able to effortlessly one shot Original Demon who had powered up with Crisis to the point where he could overpower True Body Ludoshel who is baseline Low 6-B.
 
Natsu's pain tolerance is bad? Nani? This is the same Natsu who emptied all of his magical power (which you guys were arguing strips him of his energy and strength) and proceeded to consume fire which explicitly bypasses his resistance to flames. Having fire flood down your throat is totally not painful whatsoever. How about getting parts of his body being turned into bombs, or getting shot in the back of the throat and only being annoyed by it? Burning his own skin off of his body due to his power and not even flinching from it? This notion of Natsu having bad endurance or pain tolerance is asinine.
 
It doesn't have to be his first move. If he gets overwhelmed with fire attacks he'll likely use it. Especially if the attack is larger than his body. Anyways FC would cover it if he ends up not using it.

I heard Natsu's Regenerationn negation isn't even Regenerationn negation, it's magic negation.

None of that is better than Meliodas' and the bullet thing is just below his durability.
 
Peter1129 said:
Meliodas has full countered Escanor's point blank Cruel Sun.
Click to expand...
What about reflecting magic off of someone? If Natsu covers himself in fire and punches Meliodas, can Meliodas reflect the fire off of Natsu's body? I'd like an example of a time he did something like that.
 
FC? You mean Mel's magic power? The same magic that Natsu power nulls? That will be funny to see.

The bullet was from Wally who is comparable to but weaker than Natsu and was shot into the back of his throat where his dura is much lower. I see you didn't bother contesting the other stuff and went for the weakest feat I mentioned.
 
If it's magic. He can full counter it regardless as long as his sword touches it. If Natsu uses a fire fist he can just FC the fist because it's magic. I remember this girl used magic that activates on the tip of the blade and he just touched the tip to FC.
 
You are trying to argue he is using FC on the fire. Of course its getting burnt when Natsu burns time, death and existence erasure magic.
 
Peter1129 said:
Also in the first chapter he reflected Twigo's sword slashes by full countering his sword.
Click to expand...
Except that's a physical attack and not magic. Clearly retconned by Mel's FC only working on magic as seen by Esta having one that only works on physical attacks.
 
EmperorRorepme said:
It does count. It activates via lunging with the tip then the explosion occurs
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm not saying Natsu punches and then creates a fireball from his fist. I'm saying he is on fire and then punches Mel.
 
His magic is on his fist and Mel reflects it away. Same with the magic being on the tip of the blade and it getting reflected in the opposite direction.
 
This is also how he reflected Guila's explosion. It has a clack sound effect which means he hit the rapier with his broken sword.

https://*****************/read-online/Nanatsu-No-Taizai-chapter-22-page-20.html

And you can see in this page that she covers the tip of her rapier with magic.

https://*****************/read-online/Nanatsu-No-Taizai-chapter-22-page-23.html

She also covers the tip of her rapier with magic here.

https://*****************/read-online/Nanatsu-No-Taizai-chapter-26-page-3.html

Before it got reflected in the next page when Meliodas hit her rapier where the magic is located

https://*****************/read-online/Nanatsu-No-Taizai-chapter-26-page-4.html
 
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