• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Medaka Kurokami verses Wolfgang Schreiber

@Fire Raf Rafflesia wasn't erased by AF as Kumagawa originally thought, though.

Actually they 100% state it can't delete the skill at all since there's such a strong meaning to it.

So I really doubt AF could erase things Briah related if you guys are saying it's that close to a minus.

Other than that, I'm neutral on how The End will interact with it.
 
Hey hey Schro...m8, you think only Briah's need that?

Minuses need a really strong desire, a messed up mind, need a sense of hatred towards others and the will to do them bad deeds, are unique for a person and cannot by ANY MEANS be used by someone else, Kumagawa could only use Bookmaker and Hundred Gauntlets + unskilled, that's literally it......Completely bypassed rules when The End kicks in. Seriously stop this, it's ridiculous. Might aswell be saying "the author never meant Medaka to be fighting Dies Irae so she loses by default". Srsly The End completely bypasses skill rules, stop the "well briahs have this part of the sentence a bit different so yeah let's just undo it". It's the same thing m8. Then again verse equalization, Medaka can copy any skill as long as they don't fit the 1 criteria i mentioned above, via verse equalization Briah's are considered similar skills, why is that because verse equalization says "similar traits between 2 verses are equalized".
 
FateAlbane said:
@Fire Raf Rafflesia wasn't erased by AF as Kumagawa originally thought, though.
Actually they 100% state it can't delete the skill at all since there's such a strong meaning to it.

So I really doubt AF could erase things Briah related if you guys are saying it's that close to a minus.

Other than that, I'm neutral on how The End will interact with it.
Click to expand...
It did change Raf Rafflesia doe. Also you can't treat resistances like that, they are similar in the way they are reached, but Briahs never showed such resistance to erasure did they? Besides as i said, AF did erase parts of Raf Rafflesia.
 
Briah's and Minuses/Abnormalities doesn't fit in the same thing.

The whole point of Briah's is "create a world to the user and their relic". Gudou = Their body is said "world". Hadou = The outside is said world.

Minuses are just skills born from a ****** up mind.
 
SchroKatze said:
Not really. Her ego needs to be strong enough to reject reality. Also, can you show me scans of her craving being that strong?
Click to expand...
I mean All Fiction is literally the rejection of reality.

Besides that though, I'm too lazy to go looking through chapters, Fire could you go find scans of Medaka's naivety and her devotion to helping people?
 
Yeah if this guy can completely destroy her soul Medaka gets ragdolled. All Fiction can return from nearly any physical damage, but it's only been shown to work when there was something left to use the ability. In Medaka Box, when we've seen someone die (or come close to death) they go to a certain place that seems to act as a sort of intermediary between life and death, or perhaps as the afterlife itself. It's from this place that Kumagawa and Medaka return from death. If there's nothing left of them, body or soul, to use this ability, they can't revive. There's also the fact that AF has never been shown to work on soul damage, so it's entirely possible it can't heal any damage done to their souls.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
It did change Raf Rafflesia doe. Also you can't treat resistances like that, they are similar in the way they are reached, but Briahs never showed such resistance to erasure did they? Besides as i said, AF did erase parts of Raf Rafflesia.
Click to expand...
Barely. It didn't delete the skill like he wanted to, it just allowed Emukae to control its activation instead of being a passive sort of thing.

My point was more pointing out how All Fiction can't affect something that, in your own words, "works a lot like Briah" (i. e. Minuses) as much as it should. If AF can't erase Minuses and its effects due to the heavy emotional deal behind it, then it can't erase Briah and its effects either since they have just as much of that sort of thing behind their mechanics.
 
ApiesDeathbyLazors said:
Besides that though, I'm too lazy to go looking through chapters, Fire could you go find scans of Medaka's naivety and her devotion to helping people?
Click to expand...
Do i have to? That's literally the whole point of Medaka. That's like asking for scan where Kenpachi is shown to be arrogant. Like Medaka is the perfect being that lives because she wants to help the normal ppl, that's literally the idea behind the creation of her character.

@FateAlbane. No not rly, Minuses are just negative Pluses. Pluses are also abilities that come from one's state of mind and desire such as Koga's plus (just not messed up state of mind like minuses), though only minuses have the trait of "they can't be erased". Minuses are just a special case in verse, it's not cus of the feeling, it's cus they are minus, just a special trait for them. So no, Briah doesn't get the same thing.

@Vindictive

Not exaclty, where they go when they die is not afterlife, it's their "heart". There is no such thing as afterlife in Medaka. As ajimu said to zenkichi this everything there was just their heart ajimu included "he's meeting the me that is inside his heart" (what she said to zenkichi about Kumagawa), if it were afterlife Zenkichi and Kumagwa would meet. And no, Kumagawa doesn't have to activate All Fiction, it activates passively after his death. Ajimu stated herself, it's not that he "doesn't die" but that he "can't die" which means that All Fiction is outside of his control, and remember, even breaking Kumagawa's mind would not end all fiction, so it was basically an endless loop so no. We've already been over this in a past CRT, All Fiction is not activated by Kumagawa after death.
 
Thing is, no one's argueing for erasing the whole Briah, just the need for soul fuel or what ever it needs souls for. AF is just augmenting the Briah in a similar manner Raf Rafflesia.
 
SchroKatze said:
Briah's and Minuses/Abnormalities doesn't fit in the same thing.
The whole point of Briah's is "create a world to the user and their relic". Gudou = Their body is said "world". Hadou = The outside is said world.

Minuses are just skills born from a ****** up mind.
Click to expand...
From a desire and a ****** up mind. "create a world to the user and their relic" come on dude just give up it's becoming seriously redundant. "Oh they don't use the exact same words so haha it doesn't work jokes on you", seriously. As i said Medaka cannot copy physical existances. She cannot copy raw Goku, she cannot copy his apparence his weapons etc etc. How does the Briah negate such stuff and again Briah's don't have any resistance to power mimicry so just stop it, if you rly don't want Wolfy to lose then get another point, this has been cleared like 20 times by multiple ppl by now.
 
ApiesDeathbyLazors said:
Thing is, no one's argueing for erasing the whole Briah, just the need for soul fuel or what ever it needs souls for. AF is just augmenting the Briah in a similar manner Raf Rafflesia.
Click to expand...
^
 
ApiesDeathbyLazors said:
Thing is, no one's argueing for erasing the whole Briah, just the need for soul fuel or what ever it needs souls for. AF is just augmenting the Briah in a similar manner Raf Rafflesia.
Click to expand...
The problem with that argument is that it goes against the very mechanics of the powers you are comparing Briah to. That being Minuses.
 
Also I have no idea how people are translating in their minds the feat of:

"All Fiction just lets Emukae control activation of Raf Rafflesia when he tried to erase all of it and render her a normal girl"

to

"Therefore All Fiction perfectly erases the soul usage being a needed thing to activate Briah" in their minds when AF was never shown to affect soul related anything.
 
Just gonna point the reason why people argue for her not copying Briah is because of Briah nature and some of its many requirements (Needing a strong desire, have a holy relic, ect). So there's no need to shove someone face with a "drop it" or "no resistance to power mimicry=power copying".

Do i agree with them? Or with Medaka copying his Briah? Don't care. Just wanna tell that this "resistance to power mimicry" is not a must, else you might as well tell me Medaka can copy Mercurius (3-D) power that are specifically there because of his related nature to his 1-A true self just because he doesn't have resistance to power mimicry

Or god no how NLF you might go
 
FateAlbane

I don't get it? How is AF not able to to affect souls? Kumagawa was capable of erasing Zenkichi from existence entirely, which includes his soul as well? So, its not like souls were immune from getting erased when Kumagawa was capable of performing the feat?

So, isn't that proof of AF capable of affecting souls too?
 
When Zenkichi was restored after being erased he commented on the feeling of it, if I remember correctly. That's proof that something at least was left over. Even if it could affect souls normally, that wouldn't necessarily translate to healing soul damage or returning after having even their soul erased. At best it would work as supporting evidence, but there'd have to be an instance of them performing a feat like that in the first place.
 
Yusuke138 said:
snip
Click to expand...
Whether that's the case or not, I could probably have worded it better. I meant that there isn't proof of AF having any application that would help with the whole soul mechanics of Briah in this situation, the way it's being used.

Existence Erasure of a person does not translate to erasing the mechanics behind a power, otherwise Beerus Hakai would basically let him change how other people's powers work for instance.

Vindictive's reply above explains better what I had meant.
 
@the causality

here is the short story fire said medaka would be able to copy briah desire and ignore other requierment to use briah. the other doesnt agree

for the all fiction erase briah thats funny because the magic formula used by merc is pretty much a rule in dies irae that bounds 1-A person like ren,rein,marie, and merc himself
 
@The Causality The debate so far has been whether or not Medaka can copy dudes Briah. The arguments for it state that with the combonation of All Fiction eraseing cause and effect and The End + Observation allowing Medaka to master it to 120% effectiveness, she should be able to get a better version of dudes Briah and beat him down with it.

The arguments against it state that because of the unique nature of Briah, the rules governing them and the cost to obtain one, that Medaka shouldn't be able to just copy it and even if she did, the cost would be too great and she'd die, peremently, as a resault.

There are also people who don't care either way and just want the debate to move on. I think that's the long and short of it.
 
Last I checked Medaka hasn't ever copied anything with The End that had a cost. Her ability has removed negative features like "being constant" via methods like "adding an on/off switch", but she's never removed features from an ability like having a cost to use the skill. It's safe to assume, should she copy his Briah, the cost would remain.

It's also safe to assume All Fiction and Encounter wouldn't be able to negate or undo the effects, as neither has been shown to undo or prevent damage to the soul. Even if Encounter did somehow have the ability to protect against soul attacks, and it was proven to do so, there's no evidence it could negate the same effect being applied as a cost of one of her own abilities.

To summarise, assuming she can copy his skill, it would likely remain useless to her. Unless there's a passive benefit to having said skill, copying it really doesn't do anything for her.
 
Copying the Briah isn't even that big a deal in this fight. Medaka has good skills to begin with, she doesn't need anyhting new. I think we should leave that argument where it is and move on. All we've done so far is clarify the same points over and over again. Let's agree to disagree, leave others to decide for themselves and move on.
 
If the work is rubbish, everything involving it will be rubbish.

OOF'

Well let's just drop the briah thing. It's pointless and useless to the woman here -_-
 
Sounds good to be moving on.

So what is the biggest arsenal for Wolfie to complete have the win in his favor? I do know he has Type 8 immortality. So, biggest opportunity relies upon Medaka's Bookmark and Scar Dead. I know AF is unable to erase Wolfie due to the whole Reinhard Heydrich exists factor.

The scenario I can

  • Unknown Hero: An ability copied from Hinokage that prevents Medaka's foes from noticing her presence unless she wills it. Even then, if she wishes herself to remain hidden, no one, not even those as observant as her, will be able to acknowledge her presence.
before the dropping of Bookmarking.
 
biggest arsenal is true briah. in true briah mode he always faster than the opponent. wolfy true briah weakness is his mind is to unstable so he keep losing soul to regen out last him and she won or time stop to counter him. its in character so idk if medaka gonna use AF for time stop or bookmark because medaka in the manga didnt use both of them
 
How good is dudes "third eye" thing? Depending on it's effectiveness, it might see through Unknown Hero. IIRC UH only really blocks standard methods of detection. Sight and hearing and what not.
 
"So what is the biggest arsenal for Wolfie to complete have the win in his favor?"

1) Soul Hax by glaring/breathing/screaming

2) He blitz her since he goes for the kill at very high speed

3) Type 8

Can she hide her soul? Will she use Scar Dead ? Is she going to use Unknown Hero from the start? Can Book maker affects him ? He's boosted by Heydrich h24 7/7


" wolfy true briah weakness is his mind is to unstable"

It's no longer a weakness IIRC since it was caused by Trifa's mindfuck
 
all of DI character can sense soul and can tell which soul is which if this conceal only presence not soul included than nope
 
Well the briah is literally just a plus. So imma put this last part in here. @everyone who disagrees that Medaka copies Briah's because of (insert rule), i already explained WAY too many times. The End bypasses rules. How many did i list by now? Like 5 rules that Medaka bypasses and just gains the abilities. The End just makes Medaka have all the benefits of a skill while bypassing ALL rules even ones created by MUCH stronger beings such as Ajimu (even rules that create the impossibility of having any skill that is not fit for you). Via verse equalization, Medaka does the same to Briah and copies.

The Cost is 0. Because Briahs are not minuses, they are abnormalities. Thus they don't share Minus' trait to be resistant to erasure effects. Unless you show Briah's to have that kind of resistance it's impossible to just say "they resist", unless someone tried to do that and failed.

As for the rest, Medaka still has a bit too many skills to beat Wolfy.

1. All Fiction, it can erase any attempt at killing Medaka. (the dude attacked me, except he didn't. The dude is trying to soul hax me, except he isn't. The dude is trying to do anything to me, except he isn't)

2. Unknown Hero doesn't conceal anything, it removes something. The presence. Check my blog on all fiction to understand what it means to "remove presence" from something. It's not that he won't see her, he won't notice her, it's not that he won't sense her soul, he won't notice her soul is there, he will be sensing her soul, though UH makes Medaka unimportant to other people. The example i always give, it's not that you don't see a pebble on the road, you also do feel if you hit 1 pebble away subconsciously, you do sense it, it's just not important, you just walk over it without noticing anything different.

@Frohe's question "Can Bookmaker affect him?" Bookmaker absolutely destroys.
 
Friendly reminding everyone that this is in character medaka. She wont uses any other skills And preferly starting with her god modes instead
 
MagiSinbad said:
Friendly reminding everyone that this is in character medaka. She wont uses any other skills And preferly starting with her god modes instead
Click to expand...
Well even in character Medaka will use skills. Though she will start off with normal stuff. Like she will only use AF for regen instead of 1 shot and other stuff like that. Besides Medaka is a genius, she won't be going easy if her life is on the line.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Agnaa
  • Locked
Various Medaka Box Changes
4 5 6
Replies
239
Views
16K
Agnaa
Agnaa
The_King_of_Prudence
Infinity Silhouette verses Medaka Kurokami
Replies
11
Views
844
The_King_of_Prudence
The_King_of_Prudence
ZackMoon1234
Medaka Kurokami vs Hajime Nagumo
2
Replies
43
Views
1K
ZackMoon1234
ZackMoon1234
TriforcePower1
Ganon vs Medaka Box's best character
3 4 5
Replies
180
Views
6K
ZephyrosOmega
ZephyrosOmega
Jinsye
Calypso vs. Medaka Kurokami
2
Replies
65
Views
2K
Firephoenixearl
Firephoenixearl
Back
Top