Medaka Kurokami verses Wolfgang Schreiber

[Firephoenixearl]

Briah isn't just a power. It's a whole new world based entirely on the user's desire. A world for the user and their holy relic. No HR = No Briah. Not strong enough ego + Die Ewigkeit + A big soul count = No briah too.

Ugh, already explained she can copy desire derived powers too such as Bookmaker or Itami Koga's abnormality. And anything considered a skill is in her realm of copy, even things that are not "powers" such as basketball skills. Just give up on this m8, she WILL copy the briah, and the soul cost can be negged by her abilities.

 

[EvilMegaCookie]

@Akalavashimu Name 1 ability on this wiki (any) and Medaka will be able to copy (with some few exceptions to stuff that is not an actual ability so stuff like Khorne's blessing, or weapons stuff like that). Though why we don't accept that she can copy he atziluth is not because she rly cannot it's just that the strongest skills she has copied (shown to copy) come from Ajimu Najimi which in this wiki has an eternal "Unknown" stat, so the most she has shown to copy would be tier 2 stuff like All Fiction and the god-tier skill in verse being Bookmaker. So while she can copy some of Akuto Sai's power, we would treat it as NLF since she hasn't shown to copy powers of this level, that's the point of "she won't copy a 1-A power like atziluth". But yeah if we remove the NLF part of the whole argument then yes Medaka would copy atziluth too.

She objectively CANNOT copy Atziluth.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

She objectively CANNOT copy Atziluth.

NLF aside she can. I mean if we just take the tier out of the way, so let's say atziluth is like tier 2 or sth, then yes she would be able to copy it, but stop this, don't derail and prove me wrong when it actually matters, in this matchup it doesn't.

 

[PrettyFearMachine]

Bruh, Medaka won't kill Wolf, cuz "lol 1-A Typer 8"

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Bruh, Medaka won't kill Wolf, cuz "lol 1-A Typer 8"

Yeah that's cool and all. So now how do you want Medaka to end him after realizing killing won't do huh?

Want a fresh bookmaker right out of the oven?

Or shall she bfr using All Fiction?

Or would Death Loop via Scar Dead be more to your liking?

Or how about just saying Kneel and keep him as her personal b**** for eternity?

Or maybe erasing his powers and making him useless?

Or maybe, just maybe giving him some kind of crippling desease?

Or maybe freezing him and making him a block of ice?

Mind hax via AF?

Corrodig his legs?

You get the point.

 

[MagiSinbad]

^ you really need to chill out

 

[Firephoenixearl]

^ you really need to chill out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzvasAJIHb4

 

[MagiSinbad]

For The End's problem. We clearly dont know how far is it's capicity. we know it can copy Ajimu's skills, but you should take note that Ajimu's tier is unknown. And so far, none of her wall-of-texts skills has ever show any feat that it's reaching above 2-C. "Transend dimensions" is vague as hell, we dont know how it's work and "dimensions" can also mean "alternative reality". So let just focus on other feats that The End has, the ones that not rely on Ajimu's unknown tier

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

From what I hear, "transcend" uses the same character for "cross" and "traverse" so she might not even transcend anything at all.

 

[MagiSinbad]

Let conclude it like this : no copy Atziluth. Or any ability that is beyond low 2-C

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Let conclude it like this : no copy Atziluth. Or any ability that is beyond low 2-C

Well we usually keep it at stuff that is tier 2. Like as long as it's tier 2 then it's not impossible for Medaka to copy it. This comes from this part: All Fiction could erase multiple universes so that's like 5D if im not mistaken, and she could copy stuff from Ajimu and Bookmaker who are like leagues above All Fiction, and it was never treated as hard for Medaka to copy either of the 3. Though yes anything tier 1 would be usually called a NLF by our standarts. Tier 2 is usually treated as reachable by The End FRA. Anyway this point is practically useless as Wolfgang doesn't have anything to do with this, so let's continue? Let's not derail till this gets like 300 msgs.

 

[MagiSinbad]

Hold on, is this match Bloodlusted or Incharacter ?

I gonna give Medaka my vote if she's bloodlusted. All Fiction in theory could erase the distant between Wolfboy and her bookmaker screw, sealing him and his power in process.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Hold on, is this match Bloodlusted or Incharacter ?
I gonna give Medaka my vote if she's bloodlusted. All Fiction in theory could erase the distant between Wolfboy and her bookmaker screw, sealing him and his power in process.

If this is bloodlusted it's a stomp. Medaka just All Fictions Wolfgang or spawns Bookmaker screw inside him. She's a tad too broken of a character in bloodlusted mode.

My current arguments are for in character, if @God Of Procrastination comes out saying this is bloodlusted im leaving the fight xD.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

She aint bloodlusted

@Fire, you're mistaken. Erasing multiple universes is not 5D

 

[Firephoenixearl]

She aint bloodlusted
@Fire, you're mistaken. Erasing multiple universes is not 5D

The op doesn't say whether it's bloodlusted or incharacter, ofc i took the incharacter version as true since SBA. But GoP has the last say on it.

Huh? Ok, so a planet is a 3D construct, a universe is a 3D construct, but it's 4D if you erase it via All Fiction (all the timeline), and a multiverse is a 5D construct. That is what i thought at least, correct me if im wrong doe.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

OP's say on it is that they aren't bloodlusted, or he would have said they were. There's a reason that people who destroy an infinite multiverse aren't High 2-A. That reason is that destroying a multiverse isn't 5-D

 

[MagiSinbad]

I gonna need scans for "All fiction can erase multiple universes" since from what i recall, the best thing AF has ever done is conceptualy erased the colors and Misogi's statement about Out-of-control AF could erase the world, i assume the world is universe from what the OVA has shown us. But then again, i dont recall anything state MBverse has multiple universes

 

[Firephoenixearl]

OP's say on it is that they aren't bloodlusted, or he would have said they were.
There's a reason that people who destroy an infinite multiverse aren't High 2-A. That reason is that destroying a multiverse isn't 5-D

Hmm but isn't HA Dio 2-A because he rewrote something out of the multiverse?

Take note that the universes are technically lined up along a 5-dimensional axis.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

No? He's 2-A because he was overwriting the multiverse as a whole

 

[MagiSinbad]

HA Dio was overwrited entire JoJo multiverse, hence the 2-A rating

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I gonna need scans for "All fiction can erase multiple universes" since from what i recall, the best thing AF has ever done is conceptualy erased the colors and Misogi's statement about Out-of-control AF could erase the world, i assume the world is universe from what the OVA has shown us. But then again, i dont recall anything state MBverse has multiple universes

Well first of all it's not out of control AF, it's just "by mistake". Ppl always get that part wrong, he said he has full control over it so what he ment by "mistake" is more like when you make a typo, it's not cus u don't have control over ur fingers, it's just a mistake.

Though he erased the colors from what was seemengly the multiverse. The world means all of existence (or all of human existence, but since it was way beyond planetary it's taken as all of existence). Then there is the fact that there exist multiple universes in MB. Medaka said that she went to other universes to fight in the last return and also there are the universes created by Medaka and Ajimu via baby planet and pioneer flag. But yeah the wiki says that universes exist in a 5D axis, so since she could copy something that did stretch out to erasing multiple space-time continums such as universes in a 5D axis and then ajimu which was above that and then bookmaker which was even above Ajimu and all of that without showing any signs of limit or effort, tier 2 is usually treated as reachable by The End. We have already treated it as such before in other matches though again

This is an insignificant topic, let's just continue on with the fight, this is not where these discussions should happen.

 

[Akalavashimu]

No dies character doesnt use soul for consumption. Soul in dies is simply a power up they use their own stamina to fight

 

[MagiSinbad]

Okay, so may i see the scan where she said she went to the other universes ?

 

[MagiSinbad]

For the match itself, i really need OP decide about whether The characters are bloodlusted or not. And since you know Medaka, you will also know that she wont use any skills other than her God modes which are pure physical

 

[Akalavashimu]

Op said in character in the comment early on

 

[MagiSinbad]

So only God Modes for Medaka... Yeah i switch my vote to Wolfboy

 

[Akalavashimu]

How is she gonna negate soul when its just a mere power up? Briah doesnt consume soul but it needs soul if she wants to change die ewk rules she needs to be at least 1-A because its a rule made by merc

 

[MagiSinbad]

How is she gonna negate soul when its just a mere power up? Briah doesnt consume soul but it needs soul if she wants to change die ewk rules she needs to be at least 1-A because its a rule made by merc

We stop talking about Medaka copy Wolfgang like a few post ago, lol.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Okay, so may i see the scan where she said she went to the other universes ?

It's here [[1]]

Also some stuff like copying his briah is passive and Medaka has no problem using stuff that's not a supposed to affect someone badly, so stuff like Auto Pilot, or Unzen's balls which don't have negative effects are ok for her. I mean she can use All Fiction for regen, and the briah will be passive. So, it's not out of the question. Besides don't forget what happens when Medaka feels that something is useless.

@Akala As i said she can just negate the power up or consumption whatever it is. Medaka doesn't need to power up a skill, her version is as good as it can get. Wolfgang's briah is imperfect and he uses souls to power up, Medaka's Briah has no such need, it's already at the highest pinnacle of power, it can't get better than that unless it gets copied in a perfected version.

 

[MagiSinbad]

We really need a sequel for that interesting adventure, lol.

So Medaka Box actually has parallel universe huh. That's good to hear.

But Alaka just said if she want to do something like power up or consumption, she would gonna be 1-A and that's not happening

 

[Firephoenixearl]

We really need a sequel for that interesting adventure, lol.
So Medaka Box actually has parallel universe huh. That's good to hear.

But Alaka just said if she want to do something like power up or consumption, she would gonna be 1-A and that's not happening

The power up is automatic. Medaka's copy isn't a "normal" copy (1 of the most f-ing copies in fiction). What she copies is the FULL power of something. So let's say All Fiction. Medaka's all fiction is not the "weak" all fiction (without hundred gauntlets), it is a perfect all fiction, as good as it can get, even though minuses power up only via the messed up state of mind someone has, the more f-ed up u become mentally the stronger the minus becomes. Medaka has no such need, she just has the most perfect version of something, even though that shouldn't be the case, she does have. And as i said it's a "learning" kind of thing, though a perfect learn.

As for the consumption she can just alter the power, so "it consumes my soul so it does it's job" and it becomes "it does it's job" since the consuming part is erased from the equation and if that somehow doesn't work she just negates that via other methods. The soul thingy is not a big deal for Medaka.

Also... when someone says "medaka box sequel"....https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ComplicatedSparklingAsianelephant-max-1mb.gif I know we need it xD

 

[Akalavashimu]

@magisinbad well this is in character so if she can copy briah there is no way wolfy can win hence i resume the debate

@fire no she still needs if you claim that she doesnt need soul because she perfected the skill and got to the highest pinnacle of skill let her fight ren or rein even in briah she gonna reach atziluth because that is the perfect briah

 

[Firephoenixearl]

@magisinbad well this is in character so if she can copy briah there is no way wolfy can win hence i resume the debate
@fire no she still needs if you claim that she doesnt need soul because she perfected the skill and got to the highest pinnacle of skill let her fight ren or rein even in briah she gonna reach atziluth because that is the perfect briah

Hmm, well Reinhard has mindhax and Medaka's mindhax resistance is treated as non existent by the wiki since the user of the mindhax doesn't have any decent feat. So Medaka loses vs Rein because she looks at his spear, otherwise she should take it, i mean Rein's mindhax aside. Since Weighted Words doesn't have any actual feat and rewriting your brain like Medaka does, is usually treated "weak" (even though a brain rewrite should work in most cases), so that's why she loses to ppl like Nihilus, Meth or Reinhard. Otherwise she takes on ppl like novel Kars in almost a draw (both had arguments, but jojo has more fans so most ppl went for Kars, though voting Medaka was acceptable since there was no counter argument for her win). So yeah we would be putting her up against Reinhard if her brain rewrite were accepted as a counter.

And she doesn't need souls to perfect cus it's already perfected, that's like the most basic description for The End (a skill that learns and perfects any skill). And again anything else can be negated via her other hax.

 

[Akalavashimu]

What im trying to say is perfecting a skill doesnt means removing the cost and requierment its require its like saying i already perfected the skill of lifting hence i dont need a strong hand to lift something that os beyond human

 

[Firephoenixearl]

What im trying to say is perfecting a skill doesnt means removing the cost its require its like saying i already perfected the skill of lifting hence i dont need a strong hand to lift something that os beyond Human

Well you said that the souls are a cost to improve the ability. Which will be a skipped process.

In your case: Perfecting the skill of lifting means you don't need to train to lift, you can bench press 100 tons without the need for training or anything similar to it. That's the point of The End, medaka skips such process such as when copying baseball skills, she just skips the training of the eye, the talent etc etc etc and she just becomes the peak of human level Baseball play.

If they require souls to work then she also has ways around it.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Medaka can't copy raw physical stats though.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Medaka can't copy raw physical stats though.

True though anything aching to it can be copied. Idk how that i relevant here though.

 

[Akalavashimu]

well its just an example so its more like i got normal human hands but using what you said if i perfected the skill even with human hand i can lift a building but thats not what perfected means. now lets change this into soul briah needs lets just say 1000 soul and desire. she copy the briah means she got the same desire but she still lacks the soul how can she start changing the world when she lacks that something to make the skill works? from what i remember most of the skill in medaka doesnt need some requierment to use hence she is able to copy all of the skill in medaka except iihiko

 

[Firephoenixearl]

well its just an example so its more like i got normal human hands but using what you said if i perfected the skill even with human hand i can lift a building but thats not what perfected means. now lets change this into soul briah needs lets just say 1000 soul and desire. she copy the briah means she got the same desire but she still lacks the soul how can she start changing the world when she lacks that something to make the skill works? from what i remember most of the skill in medaka doesnt need some requierment to use hence she is able to copy all of the skill in medaka except iihiko

PS: That iihiko part she did copy it, either that or she used Hanten's Skill That Makes Skills to create Iihiko's skill (that's what the author himself said about 1 of the skills). Anyway back to the topic at hand.

So the point is, Medaka doesn't need those 1000 souls. Medaka can't copy raw strength so ur example is a bit weird and unusable since it doesn't apply to our topic. But yeah here is a similar example.

Medaka copies Minuses and uses them perfectly, this applies even though Minuses need a deranged state of mind to be upgraded, the more messed up you are the stronger the minus becomes (this is aching to soul requirement in our case, the more souls, the stronger it becomes), though Medaka skips this whole process entirely she doesn't need a training process or a power up process such as having a deranged mind (or in our case collecting souls), to get the perfect version of a skill. So Medaka can have a messed up skill that NEEDS a messed up mind to even exist and needs an even worse state of mind (the worse the better) to be upgraded while being perfectly sane and normal, so she skips the requirements entirely (and btw it's impossible for anyone to hold any random skill, the only notable exceptions to this rule are Hanten, Ajimu and Medaka via The End, as Ajimu said, it's impossible for Kumagawa to have anything other than All Fiction, Bookmaker and Unskilled as his skill list, like out of the 13 quadrillion skills ajimu has only 2 were fit for Kumagawa those being Hundred Gauntlets which evolved into All Fiction and Unskilled. The End also bypasses this rule for some reason)

The cost is another deal entirely. So Medaka can perfect running, though it still requires stamina to use. Though the cost can be negged by her other abilities.

 

[Akalavashimu]

whew i dont remember she copy iihiko but whatever its not the main topic. well yes i know she doesnt need training or whatever and for the minus part yes i agree thats why i kept telling that she would be able to copy the desire but that doesnt meant she copy or ignore the other requierment like soul. no briah doesnt use soul its only wolfy thing because his mind is to unstable but if she can copy his briah the soul cost is nullified because she perfected the thing. so she cannot copy skill that is based from pyhsical strength because she lacks to body to so but why can she can copy skill that is based from spiritual/soul strength soul is diffrent from mind after all