- 7,164
- 1,066
So, basically, bunch of Nasu characters scale to this. Barely so downscale. Problem is, the scaling barely makes sense. Not downscale part, not at all, the ends, tiers, numbers and the multipliers are the problem.
The main problem is 7-A. The accepted end is vape. Why do we have 7-A? Because of pulverization? That wasn't the end that was accepted. Because it was barely scaled? Even if we get the highest 7-A AP, 999 Megatons, is still hundreds of times lower than the shot. That's way, way too low. Because we have more 7-A statements? We just sets to the highest possible tier for a character to the profile, even when there are many lower tiered feats, if there is a higher tiered feats of strength that aren't considered an outlier than that will be the one we'll get. We do that to a lot of verses (Guilty Gear has lots of tier 6 but they're at 3-A, Tekken has bunch of tier 8 feats but they're 7-B, BlazBlue has many tier 7 even by God tiers but they're 5-A, Kengan has many tier 9 feats but they're 8-C+, Baki also has a lots of tier 9 feats but they're 7-C). Comparing Nasu to these verses might raise an eyebrow but what I'm saying is that the highest non-outlier tier should be prioritized and adding bunch of lower tiers just because they're many is off-putting and confusing to say the least.
And also we have the NPs. Oh, the NPs. 6-C NPs just say screams why by the current scaling. Having one tier alone makes no sense, we have two different tiers. And it mainly comes from Caliburn killing Herc 7 times. That means 7 times his durability considering how God Hand works, the problem is it's like High 6-C so that doesn't make sense either. Also I know there are servant NPs that is 6-C scaling to Crane Wings like Gareth and Vlad and it's cursed. NP scaling extends to Phantasmal Beasts so that needs fixing too.
So these are my opinions for the tier:
Normal Servant Power
Downscaling from 124 Gigatons. Let's divide it by 5. It is a fair enough assumption, that is the point where a normal human is getting hit by objects that can hurt them critically.
24.86 Gigatons. This is Gawain's Durability. 6-C. Let's be real here, Servant Ranks when it comes to strength is pure bull so except for really weak E-ranks, everyone scales.
This scales to Mantra Boosts and Dead Apostles as well, of course. This also scales to C-rank NP and above.
All A-Rank NPs and B+-Rank Anti-Army Noble Phantasms should be At least 6-C for Durindana piercing through both Asterios and Herc at once.
Arondight and NotS Gawai
Numeral of the Saints Gawain should scale to Arondight. With Arondight, Lancelot was able to fight NS Gawain to a standstill. So we should scale it to him.
Multiplier to three and it will be 74.58 Gigatons. 6-C+. This is NotS Gawain's tier. Btw, I think only Saberlot should scale to this, not Zerklot since Zerklot has an anti-feat in F/Z.
A+-Rank Anti-Army Noble Phantasm
This scales to Caliburn which is 7 times Herc's Dura. So just multiplier to 7.
174.02 Gigatons. High 6-C. Scales to any of this NPs and the ones that are shown to scale to it. The ones that are scaled are:
So, Grail Boosted Teardrop Photon Ray got this calc. 1 Petaton. Pretty nice. There is also System Keraunos' statement of literally destroying continent, specifically America, which is 1.3 Petatons. Those two should make it to 6-A.
This scales only to some NPs starting from Mash's Lord Chaldeas and EX Anti-Fortress Noble Phantasms that is destructive and doesn't have an anti-feat like Arthur's Base Excalibur. Also it's been shown that very strong Dragons can do something like this as well, as Fafnir overpowered Lord Chaldeas. This in turn scales to currently 6-Bs because that should scale to Rhon because Vortigern is exceptionally strong Dragon.
Also just saying, Ozy having separate key for his NP is stupid. We don't do that to any other characters.
Some vague magical description aside, Rhon with more than half of it's restraints released should be High 6-A by statement of it alone. It can strip the surface of the World and anchor for it's layer after all. This should only scale to Rhon of both Lancers.
5-B Proto Arthur and 2-A Excalibur and Arjuna
Excalibur Proto is a Divine Construct meant to save the planet and specifically designed to defeat beings that could destroy the earth once over half of its Restraints are released. This is like, blatant 5-B. Why does this not accepted, not like some people scale or anything.
For 2-A, well, first, Arjuna. It's pretty obvious where this is from matching Vasavi Shakti, so his Pashupata should scale to it, Karna was at his normal peak back then because of Karl's back-up. Not like it's outlierish too, they're rivals after all.
For Excalibur, there should be a new key for "Peak", at the peak of it's strength. It was able to kill Sefar and damage her normally, as seen by the lore.
High-rank Dead Apostles
So, Pre-Tsukihime Arcueid. Force of the four combined forces of servants and assuming all of them have A-Rank Strength, she should have 99.44 Gigatons. Very close to High 6-C. This scales to Aoko and Touko's prep.
Post-Tsukihime Arcueid, Full Power Roa, Zelretch, Gransburg, Merem and Van-Fem gets to High 6-C however scaling from Wallachia who can fight Phantasmal Beasts. And considering that Gransburg and Merem needs to combine forces to defeat Altrouge, it should be double that of Pegasus for Arcueid and Roa.
Thoughts?
Agree: Iapitus, Upgrade, Crim, Paul, Dangai, Makkurona, Diinou, John, Psycho, Velox, WHY
Disagree:
Neutral: Crim (7-A Removal only), Paul (7-A Removal only), John (Excalibur only), Psycho (7-A Removal only), Velox (2-A Excalibur only)
The main problem is 7-A. The accepted end is vape. Why do we have 7-A? Because of pulverization? That wasn't the end that was accepted. Because it was barely scaled? Even if we get the highest 7-A AP, 999 Megatons, is still hundreds of times lower than the shot. That's way, way too low. Because we have more 7-A statements? We just sets to the highest possible tier for a character to the profile, even when there are many lower tiered feats, if there is a higher tiered feats of strength that aren't considered an outlier than that will be the one we'll get. We do that to a lot of verses (Guilty Gear has lots of tier 6 but they're at 3-A, Tekken has bunch of tier 8 feats but they're 7-B, BlazBlue has many tier 7 even by God tiers but they're 5-A, Kengan has many tier 9 feats but they're 8-C+, Baki also has a lots of tier 9 feats but they're 7-C). Comparing Nasu to these verses might raise an eyebrow but what I'm saying is that the highest non-outlier tier should be prioritized and adding bunch of lower tiers just because they're many is off-putting and confusing to say the least.
And also we have the NPs. Oh, the NPs. 6-C NPs just say screams why by the current scaling. Having one tier alone makes no sense, we have two different tiers. And it mainly comes from Caliburn killing Herc 7 times. That means 7 times his durability considering how God Hand works, the problem is it's like High 6-C so that doesn't make sense either. Also I know there are servant NPs that is 6-C scaling to Crane Wings like Gareth and Vlad and it's cursed. NP scaling extends to Phantasmal Beasts so that needs fixing too.
So these are my opinions for the tier:
Normal Servant Power
Downscaling from 124 Gigatons. Let's divide it by 5. It is a fair enough assumption, that is the point where a normal human is getting hit by objects that can hurt them critically.
24.86 Gigatons. This is Gawain's Durability. 6-C. Let's be real here, Servant Ranks when it comes to strength is pure bull so except for really weak E-ranks, everyone scales.
This scales to Mantra Boosts and Dead Apostles as well, of course. This also scales to C-rank NP and above.
All A-Rank NPs and B+-Rank Anti-Army Noble Phantasms should be At least 6-C for Durindana piercing through both Asterios and Herc at once.
Arondight and NotS Gawai
Numeral of the Saints Gawain should scale to Arondight. With Arondight, Lancelot was able to fight NS Gawain to a standstill. So we should scale it to him.
Multiplier to three and it will be 74.58 Gigatons. 6-C+. This is NotS Gawain's tier. Btw, I think only Saberlot should scale to this, not Zerklot since Zerklot has an anti-feat in F/Z.
A+-Rank Anti-Army Noble Phantasm
This scales to Caliburn which is 7 times Herc's Dura. So just multiplier to 7.
174.02 Gigatons. High 6-C. Scales to any of this NPs and the ones that are shown to scale to it. The ones that are scaled are:
- Siegfried's Balmung
- Mordred's Clarent Blood Arthur
- Medusa's Bellophoron
- All Phantasmal Beasts, including the ones from Dead Apostles
- Karna and Rama's Brahmastra
- Fergus' Caladbolg
- Arturia's Excalibur
- MHX Alter's Cross-Calibur
- Spartacus' Self-destruction
- Angelica, Ko-Gil and Gilgamesh's Enuma Elish and Merodach
- Summer Jeanne's Des Océans d'Allégresse
- Gawain's Excalibur Galatine
- Arturia Alter's Excalibur Morgan
- MHX's Secret-Calibur
- Drake's Golden Wild Hunt
- Blackbeard's Queen Anne's Revenge
- Sigurd's Gram
- Iskandar's Via Expugnatio
- Ishtar's Gugalanna Strike and An Gal T─ü Kigal Shē
- Beowolf's Grendel Buster
- Eresh's Kur Kigal Irkalla
- Attila's Teardrop Photon Ray
- Aśvatth─üma's Sudarshan Chakra Yamaraj
- Ozy's Mesektet
- Moriarty's Dynamics of an Asteroid
- Orion's Tri-star Amore Mio and Mikotto
- Semiramis' Basmu
- Beatrice's Mjölnir's second phase
- Herc's Nine Lives
- Mephistopheles' Ticktock Bomb
- Merlin's Holy Sword
- Paracelsus' Sword of Paracelsus
- Rin and Zelretch's Jewel Sword Zelretch
- Fionn's Mac an Luin
- Jailter's La Grâce Fille Noël
- Raikou's Śakra's Vajra
- Romulus' Voluisse Magnum
- Wallachia in TATARI, Dead Apostle Soon and Dust of Osiris
- Santa Arturia's Secace Morgan
- Ryouma's Soaring Like a Dragon
- Lancelot's Arondight Overload
- Summer Artoria's Excalibur Vivian
- Proto Arthur's Excalibur
- Arash's Stella
So, Grail Boosted Teardrop Photon Ray got this calc. 1 Petaton. Pretty nice. There is also System Keraunos' statement of literally destroying continent, specifically America, which is 1.3 Petatons. Those two should make it to 6-A.
This scales only to some NPs starting from Mash's Lord Chaldeas and EX Anti-Fortress Noble Phantasms that is destructive and doesn't have an anti-feat like Arthur's Base Excalibur. Also it's been shown that very strong Dragons can do something like this as well, as Fafnir overpowered Lord Chaldeas. This in turn scales to currently 6-Bs because that should scale to Rhon because Vortigern is exceptionally strong Dragon.
Also just saying, Ozy having separate key for his NP is stupid. We don't do that to any other characters.
- Mash's Lord Chaldeas
- 5th Singularity Cu Alter's Gae Bolg
- Scathach's Gae Bolg Alternative
- Vortigern and Fafnir
- Siegfried's Balmung when only against Dragons
- Arturia's Rhongonomiad
- Boudica's Chariot of Boudica (Defense only)
- Arash's Command Spell Boosted Stella
- Ozy's Dendera Lightbulb and Ramasseum Tentriys
- Nitocris' Mirror of the Underworld
- Quetz's Quetzalcoatl
- Martha's Tarasque
- Proto Arthur's Excalibur with Unknown Restrictions
- Goetia, Solomon and Merlin's Magecraft
- Sigurd's Gram when only against Dragons
- Jeanne Alter's La Grondement Du Haine
Some vague magical description aside, Rhon with more than half of it's restraints released should be High 6-A by statement of it alone. It can strip the surface of the World and anchor for it's layer after all. This should only scale to Rhon of both Lancers.
5-B Proto Arthur and 2-A Excalibur and Arjuna
Excalibur Proto is a Divine Construct meant to save the planet and specifically designed to defeat beings that could destroy the earth once over half of its Restraints are released. This is like, blatant 5-B. Why does this not accepted, not like some people scale or anything.
For 2-A, well, first, Arjuna. It's pretty obvious where this is from matching Vasavi Shakti, so his Pashupata should scale to it, Karna was at his normal peak back then because of Karl's back-up. Not like it's outlierish too, they're rivals after all.
For Excalibur, there should be a new key for "Peak", at the peak of it's strength. It was able to kill Sefar and damage her normally, as seen by the lore.
High-rank Dead Apostles
So, Pre-Tsukihime Arcueid. Force of the four combined forces of servants and assuming all of them have A-Rank Strength, she should have 99.44 Gigatons. Very close to High 6-C. This scales to Aoko and Touko's prep.
Post-Tsukihime Arcueid, Full Power Roa, Zelretch, Gransburg, Merem and Van-Fem gets to High 6-C however scaling from Wallachia who can fight Phantasmal Beasts. And considering that Gransburg and Merem needs to combine forces to defeat Altrouge, it should be double that of Pegasus for Arcueid and Roa.
Thoughts?
Agree: Iapitus, Upgrade, Crim, Paul, Dangai, Makkurona, Diinou, John, Psycho, Velox, WHY
Disagree:
Neutral: Crim (7-A Removal only), Paul (7-A Removal only), John (Excalibur only), Psycho (7-A Removal only), Velox (2-A Excalibur only)
