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Because it WAS a point you made. You said something that literally doesnt effect anything as if it did, the only way it would is if he was like Gohan or Jotaro, he is not, so it was a useless point.
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Legend of Zelda General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Dalesean027
- Start date
Dust_Collector
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Yeah? And?
Her being used to being an imp doesn't change anything about how blown away she is just by a fraction of the ancient Twilis power, plus the fact that as you mentioned she never really feared Zant puts into perspective how cracked the Fused Shadow is compared to him if she loses her shit from it.
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She didn’t say “Oh my god I killed him” or anything, she was only surprised at what the Fused Shadow was able to do.
Well yeah, she didn’t attack again cause the first attack killed him.
Ganondorf isn’t baseline either.
Yeah, being inflated did quite the damage.
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You made it sound like he only got serious because it was Ganondorf he was fighting.
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Midna didn’t fear Zant even when he could or did oneshot her, which was a lot.
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Yeah and? Youre backpedaling now.
And was in awe at the fact her not even trying did that, implying hey, maybe that wasnt her intent?
Not like it matters, Link/Ganon>>Midna>>Midna killing Zant>>>zant.
Bro fodder.
Uh, yeah? But youre arguing everyone scales to everyone in HW remember? Hell including Midna and Zant.
This whole argument is a byproduct of your assbackward HW cross scaling.
Yes thanks for agreeing.
No? Im just saying he actively chose not to kill Zant, and yet even then put Zant on his ass casually based on his actions in cutscene.
The fact Link also overpowers Ganon, a dude who's Zants whole power comes from to begin with, and the dude who killed the dude who without trying obliterated Zant. Makes scaling Zant to the end game dudes actual joker behavior.
You realize that goes AGAINST your argument right?
That just goes to show how absolutely ******* insane the fused shadow was, and then how it wasnt enough to beat Ganon.
Dust_Collector
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Yeah so Midna didn't really fear or go crazy over Zants power even at his peak, freaks the **** out at how much power just a fraction of the Fused Shadow has, and then Ganondorf steamrolls her when she uses it's full power. This is pretty much why when we started upgrading Triforce of Power tier characters to the giants we left Zant out.
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Well for Midna she had the Triforce of Wisdom against Zant but not Ganondorf. Link however didn't complete his training (probably) until after Zant since the last Golden Wolf is right before the castle.
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I just had the horrible realization that someone is probably going to have TotK Link and Tingle fight once the former's profile is published.
Dust_Collector
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Don't think Midna having the TOW meant much, unlike the Triforce of Power the other 2 pieces are really random with how much of a boost they give (And even if they give one at all).
Can't believe that there's only 2 versions of Link that Tingle doesn't AP stomp
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Horrible? That sounds dangerously based my dude.
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…So it wasn’t an accident.
Midna literally got angry. That was the whole reason she attacked Zant. You don’t hold back when you’re angry.
Maybe with half the amount of greater than signs, but yeah, this is the power scale.
Zant is also >>>>>>> his TP self in Hyrule Warriors.
Zant only did that because of his Toon Force.
Nobody said he didn’t want to kill Zant. He just let Zant act like Incel Joker before and after without interfering.
I never said Zant was AS strong as these people.
Midna is notoriously greedy, she only cares about power if it’s hers or was hers. She was just salty as hell when it was Zant with power no matter how powerful that was.
Dust_Collector
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The issue is that if Link wants someone dead, he will kill them. If he wanted to kill Zant he would've just stabbed the Master Sword through his chest not stand there and let Zant glaze Ganondorf for a solid minute because, I dunno, he thought it'd be funnier to let him live a little longer before running him through.
Bro by this point in the game she does not give a shit about if she has power or not she just wants to save Hyrule and the Twilight Realm, even then how would be greedy explain her going into shock and going on about "Woah that was just a fraction of the Fused Shadows power??!!" while Zant's use of power just makes her mad because he's an evil asshole.
lmao what? Bro does not have Toon Force
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Pretty sure Link was thinking what we all were: “Wtf is he doing?”
Even in Hyrule Warriors which is post-TP she’s notoriously greedy. Obviously she never goes “OMG Zant is so strong!!” but it’s pretty obvious when Zant beats her ass.
Really? I coulda swore he does.
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ToW's power amp is like, tbh idk if it even does. Feels more like it grants specific powers like sealing then applying a buff, sometimes granting better magic power. Midna was cooking with the FS tho so it probably wouldnt change anything, assuming she even knew how to use the ToW.
ToC usually gives an amp, it's just kind of inconsistent how much.
That aint what i said brother.
And yet she EXPLICITLY DID hold back by only using a FRACTION OF HER POWER
And yet your ass wants to make Midna and Zant equal? And Linkle too lmao.
And no not really, literally dusting someone with a fraction of your power probably deserves a few extra >.
Source; your ass.
But hey if that IS true, you know what that means right? It means cross scaling is ****** and Zant (who is SUPPOSED to be his TP self), being different means any other character can too! Meaning, instead of cherry picking which feats and scaling you want from main canon to wank and ignoring all the contradictions, you just actually use the feats that exist within HW. Wow who wouldve thought.
Yes, he let Zant act out his incel joker tantrum, aka he actively opted not to kill him.
You actually did bro, like ******* thrice.
Oh my ******* god you havent even played the game...
It's almost as if that is 1. Not why she was mad. 2. She has an extensive character arc relating to her angst and shitty attitude.
I chuckled.
Why think at it all? Why give him the chance? Why not just kill him if that was the plan?
NO IT ******* AINT DUDE, THERES A GODDAMN REASON SHES AN IMP STILL. SHE EVEN MENTIONS HOW SHES ON A QUEST AT THE MOMENT (with link obviously).
Couple that with, ya know, how the other dudes are meant to be ripped from said games. Like unironically the whole goddamn point.
Acting like an unhinged idiot is just acting like an unhinged idiot.
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Also can we talk about how "zant is his post tp self", as if that is even a thing given he, ya know, 
Dust_Collector
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The Twilight Realm simply has insane healthcareAlso can we talk about how "zant is his post tp self", as if that is even a thing given he, ya know,
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Obviously not that good if Midna is going through imp relapse 
Dust_Collector
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Ah well that's because when Zant took over again he made their healthcare cost a fortune instead of being free, Midna couldn't afford the surgery needed to cure her relapsing imp problem
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Yes you did, you said Midna killed Zant by accident.
No, that's just what it took to kill him.And yet she EXPLICITLY DID hold back by only using a FRACTION OF HER POWER
No, I don't. In fact in Hyrule Warriors, Midna is still treated as stronger even in her imp form.
Nah.
Holy shit that's a new level of cope. "Zant never once gets stronger in Hyrule Warriors".
Also good, so you do admit that makes everyone else stronger. The only thing "contradicting" Hyrule Warriors being 5-B is you being mad.
Why do you think this means Link decided to spare him?
No, I said he wasn't impossibly weaker.
She was mad because he took her position of power. Still got angry.
How bro thought he looked
Because not everyone alive is Future Trunks.
It's explained in the first dambed mission she's in why she's an imp again, it's because Cia cursed her to be one. Literally the whole entire reason she was hunting her.
I thought I saw it on his profile though. Oh well.
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Kid named Ganondorf resurrection:Also can we talk about how "zant is his post tp self", as if that is even a thing given he, ya know,
Dust_Collector
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Yeah mad he took her position power and began turning innocent people into demons so he could impress ganon sempai. Again, you haven't explained how her being angry or greedy or whatever means anything to her freaking out over how powerful the Fused Shadow whereas the most Zant's meat riding ass gets outta her is just being mad, like I said earlier it speaks volumes how a dude becoming roided out beyond her own power isn't enough to make her freaked out but a tiny fraction of a power that she now controls herself has her in awe so what it's capable of when it pops said dude outta existence.
Dust_Collector
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Zant 15 seconds after stepping into the ring with Volvagia
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Two whole separate arguments dude. And she hated Zant no matter how strong he was.
Dust_Collector
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Yeah dude cool she hates Zant even though he is big and strong, you haven't explained how that means anything at all.
Zant is way more powerful than Midna and is actively against her yet can't get a reaction beyond her besides destain, and she yet a tiny slither of the Fused Shadow that is completely under her own control breifly has her so starstuck with how powerful it is the hatred and bloodlust she had for Zant literal seconds beforehand just vanishes? Like this somehow means Zant is actually in the same ballpark as that power just because Midna hates him? Somehow this means he can downscale from the likes of Ganondorf? Zant is ass, maybe not Vaati level ass, but ass nonetheless.
Zant is way more powerful than Midna and is actively against her yet can't get a reaction beyond her besides destain, and she yet a tiny slither of the Fused Shadow that is completely under her own control breifly has her so starstuck with how powerful it is the hatred and bloodlust she had for Zant literal seconds beforehand just vanishes? Like this somehow means Zant is actually in the same ballpark as that power just because Midna hates him? Somehow this means he can downscale from the likes of Ganondorf? Zant is ass, maybe not Vaati level ass, but ass nonetheless.
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Man ain't it ****** how base Ghirahim scales to the MS. Tingle, Link and Skull Kid scale to feats that killed them.
Why assume he even scales to it? He never did it in HW.
If you cross-scale to assume he can, you also have to take into the fact that level of power kills him, you can't cherry pick what parts scale. Even then, why assume every attack he does sues that lv of power? Given that power is lethal even to himself, why would he, he'd just hurt or kill himself. Even in MM he didn't whip out 5-B till after 3 days of shit, so it isn't something he uses normally anyway.
Why the backpedal?
In fact how would she know? She is 100% mortified at what little power she used doing what it did, so she, evidently, DOESN'T KNOW what it would take to kill him, as such, why would she hold back? Your claim here completely ignores the point of the scene, as such, it's dog.
Also why lie? You said, over a dozen times, that everyone scales to everyone, so yes, actually, that's EXACTLY what you're trying to do.
Hey, did you know, irl, in order to do what she did to a human, would require literally like a hundred thousand times the power of said human?
Yeah man, the gap definitely isn't astronomical.
Does the same wth Ghirahim too (who has a whole other can of worms to unpack).
Unless you have a statement saying he's way stronger than his TP incarnation.
And nah dude, it goes both ways, who's to say he HW cas isn't just so weak they scale to Zant? If some can be stronger, that also means some can be weaker. If one is true, both can be true. it simply means they don't adhere to their canon power, it can differ, as such, we have to actually work off what they do, not what the canon incarnation of them did when the game is demonstrably not giving a shit about canon.
Even if Link planned on killing him whenever later it doesn't change the fact that
1. Zant is on is ass, and Link, after the fight, is completely fine and casual, showing he just casually floored Zant.
2. He let Zant mald, as in, he did not kill him, aka he spared him, whether this was going to last doesn't change the fact he did.
This tells us 2 things, that Link can casually beat the shit out of him, and Zant isn't dead because Link just chooses not to kill him in those moments, which is all that matters to shoot down Zant scaling to end game Link, especially as Link>=Ganon>>Full Power Midna>>Fraction Power Midna>>>>>>>>>>>>>Zant.
This is like comparing a human to a tomahawk and going "well, the human was vaporized but he downscales ig"
i cant believe you just dug a hole for yourself here
You realize what that means for Zant right? Or her even. Or hell even cross-scaling given they make no recollection of this being the second time, tbh from the looks of things Cia just used her time powers to play the role of Zant, especially given Midna's behavior.
ill let you in on a secret, it means they arent literally the exact same characters and the game takes liberties and tweak their narrative, tbh it should be obvious with Skull Kid ironically enough, given he was never given a chance for this to happen, and MM completely loses its power post MM, we know this because Tatl is with him specifically
Also like, you're wrong anyway given I checked and in the context of HW, Zant and Ghirahim were "sealed away". All Ganon did was undo the seal.
Idk man the more I actually look into it, I'm seeing a LOT of liberties with how HW actually interacts with canon, whether that be King Boblin having all his horns (placing the TP section at early game), whatever ****** up shit is going on with Skull Kid, whatever Ghirahim is cooking, etc.
But no for ******* real, do you not realize how stupid this shit is? Whether it be Fi scaling to like Ms level dudes (I hope to god i dont have to explain why this is awful), completely contradictory power differences between canon, your scaling resulting in shit like Skull Kid/Young Link/Tingle scaling to the ******* 5-B moon drop, let alone the High 6-A one that kills all 3 ignoring we have 0 reason to think every attack he does holds that lv of power, straight up ignorance of canon like the timelines not lining up like with King Boblin, incorrect events that didn't happen or happened differently. Like there's so much ******* wrong here that taking Aounuma's statement at face value (he's basically just saying HW is non-canon but it has dudes from main games) is asinine, it'd like trying to slap Gt AND manga super into the anime super canon, that shit just don't work.
Like goddamn just skimming the story mode right now and checking the dialogue, I forgot how utterly ****** some of this shit was, this is like Jump Force level of cross scaling and scaling to each other
Lmao where the **** are you getting 5-B from, the feat that kills Skull Kid? Young Link too? Hell even Tingle? The feat that he had to double down no less?
Why assume he even scales to it? He never did it in HW.
If you cross-scale to assume he can, you also have to take into the fact that level of power kills him, you can't cherry pick what parts scale. Even then, why assume every attack he does sues that lv of power? Given that power is lethal even to himself, why would he, he'd just hurt or kill himself. Even in MM he didn't whip out 5-B till after 3 days of shit, so it isn't something he uses normally anyway.
Yes, I did, I stand by it, your explanation is ass and is just jumping through a hoop and ignoring huge aspects of the scene.
Oh that's pretty ******* funny given earlier you were saying she didn't know how much power was needed. But suddenly she knows what's enough to pop him?
Why the backpedal?
In fact how would she know? She is 100% mortified at what little power she used doing what it did, so she, evidently, DOESN'T KNOW what it would take to kill him, as such, why would she hold back? Your claim here completely ignores the point of the scene, as such, it's dog.
No she isn't? Like I just watched her sections, they never glaze Midna above Zant by any notable degree.
Also why lie? You said, over a dozen times, that everyone scales to everyone, so yes, actually, that's EXACTLY what you're trying to do.
Lmao, yeah because dusting a dude with a mere fraction of your power isn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> him.
Hey, did you know, irl, in order to do what she did to a human, would require literally like a hundred thousand times the power of said human?
Yeah man, the gap definitely isn't astronomical.
Yeah, he doesn't, Ganon just summons his ass from TP, and he goes wild. Nothing more, nothing less.
Does the same wth Ghirahim too (who has a whole other can of worms to unpack).
Unless you have a statement saying he's way stronger than his TP incarnation.
Actually I'm saying it's completely and utterly inconsistent and nonsensical, and this extends to just about everything, with blatant contradictions on all fronts. And as such, cross-scaling, is hilariously flawed and you should probably stop cherry picking feats that never happen within HW and ignoring the blatant contradictions to your impossible scaling just to scale the whole verse off of because you can't be assed to calc some feats, which mind you, they HAVE feats, some really good ones too.
And nah dude, it goes both ways, who's to say he HW cas isn't just so weak they scale to Zant? If some can be stronger, that also means some can be weaker. If one is true, both can be true. it simply means they don't adhere to their canon power, it can differ, as such, we have to actually work off what they do, not what the canon incarnation of them did when the game is demonstrably not giving a shit about canon.
Because he LITERALLY DID.
Even if Link planned on killing him whenever later it doesn't change the fact that
1. Zant is on is ass, and Link, after the fight, is completely fine and casual, showing he just casually floored Zant.
2. He let Zant mald, as in, he did not kill him, aka he spared him, whether this was going to last doesn't change the fact he did.
This tells us 2 things, that Link can casually beat the shit out of him, and Zant isn't dead because Link just chooses not to kill him in those moments, which is all that matters to shoot down Zant scaling to end game Link, especially as Link>=Ganon>>Full Power Midna>>Fraction Power Midna>>>>>>>>>>>>>Zant.
Literally obliterated with the game making it abundantly clear he's fodder to Midna.
This is like comparing a human to a tomahawk and going "well, the human was vaporized but he downscales ig"
Yeah, and then started turning her kind into demonic wild beasts, committing war crimes, and just being an evil asshole in general. She did get angry yes.
I mean, just letting a dude mald when you CAN kill him, is, in fact, letting him live.
You realize what that means for Zant right? Or her even. Or hell even cross-scaling given they make no recollection of this being the second time, tbh from the looks of things Cia just used her time powers to play the role of Zant, especially given Midna's behavior.
Also like, you're wrong anyway given I checked and in the context of HW, Zant and Ghirahim were "sealed away". All Ganon did was undo the seal.
Idk man the more I actually look into it, I'm seeing a LOT of liberties with how HW actually interacts with canon, whether that be King Boblin having all his horns (placing the TP section at early game), whatever ****** up shit is going on with Skull Kid, whatever Ghirahim is cooking, etc.
Well, it isn't, and even if it was it'd be wrong.
But no for ******* real, do you not realize how stupid this shit is? Whether it be Fi scaling to like Ms level dudes (I hope to god i dont have to explain why this is awful), completely contradictory power differences between canon, your scaling resulting in shit like Skull Kid/Young Link/Tingle scaling to the ******* 5-B moon drop, let alone the High 6-A one that kills all 3 ignoring we have 0 reason to think every attack he does holds that lv of power, straight up ignorance of canon like the timelines not lining up like with King Boblin, incorrect events that didn't happen or happened differently. Like there's so much ******* wrong here that taking Aounuma's statement at face value (he's basically just saying HW is non-canon but it has dudes from main games) is asinine, it'd like trying to slap Gt AND manga super into the anime super canon, that shit just don't work.
Like goddamn just skimming the story mode right now and checking the dialogue, I forgot how utterly ****** some of this shit was, this is like Jump Force level of cross scaling and scaling to each other
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Oh jesus actually, it is ACTUALLY just TP but tweaked for HW.
Zant is still very much alive, and is the usurper of the twili in the events of the game still pre-ganon, there is no "post-TP Midna", it is JUST Midna from TP but the background was tweaked slightly to fit within HW's plot. Midna even treats it like this is her first time meeting his ass since he usurped.
Bruh nah this cooked why tf we cross scaling again
Zant is still very much alive, and is the usurper of the twili in the events of the game still pre-ganon, there is no "post-TP Midna", it is JUST Midna from TP but the background was tweaked slightly to fit within HW's plot. Midna even treats it like this is her first time meeting his ass since he usurped.
Bruh nah this cooked why tf we cross scaling again
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Well she's not gonna hate her own powers so of course she'll be surprised.
Thing is before his boss fight he was shown as this all powerful being with a force to be reckoned with but yknow boss fight time and bro was easier than the master Koga fight
Dust_Collector
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Ah you know what, fool that I am, I hadn't considered that, how could I not see that Midnas utter shock at the raw power of the Fused Shadow was actually because she, uh, didn't hate the Fused Shadow.
We can use "Superior to the Fused Shadow because Midna hated him and not it" as the justification for him downscaling from Ganondorf.
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Completely useless btw but Ganon crushing her helmet in his grip is well into Class K gripping strength, not like it matters given it's a low end (that shit is probably way stronger than rock), and like, Class K is nothing for him, but hey it's there along with the random actual nuke-like explosion that just kinda happens, a bit feat overall but pretty good feat when it comes to showing Zelda mfs as actually being not just "dude with sword".
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Also, feeling like we should recalc some of CT's old calcs, all his calcs available to the new NF for view, some of them have good potential for early and mid-game mfs.
Might even upgrade a few fodder to 8-B or 8-A.
should also calc the temps of elemental arrows so we can list the actual temp values like we do for Samus or Godzilla because dudes like Ganon or Majora scale to those temps in res, even some temple bosses from WW/MM/OOT do too. The WW feats obviously being the best, hell even using straight up in game size the IA feat is like ******* 7-C, which is astronomical given the feat is flash freezing a fuckton of lava instantly, Ganon can straight-up tank these so his res scales for example.
Might even upgrade a few fodder to 8-B or 8-A.
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Ayo, don't diss the stupendous chief of the Yiga Clan
Bro uses his secret technique and Zant is finished
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To change the subject because we're basically just repeating ourselves with different wording, what calcs are they and what profiles were you thinking of making for early and mid game?
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I didn't plan on making any really, just fixing what we had.
Because GODDAMN are they in need of it.
Because GODDAMN are they in need of it.
Do we have anything remotely close for inaccesible speed link?
Why i said remotely
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Inaccessible speed isn't even a thing on the site anymore.
oh crap your right lmao
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