Legend of Zelda General Discussion Thread

[Overlordhamsterball69]

Hello mates

 

[Overlordhamsterball69]

Have yall discussed immeasureable speed link?

 

[Overlordhamsterball69]

 

[Dust_Collector]

Hello mates

G'day mate

Have yall discussed immeasureable speed link?

As based as Immeasurable Link would be this doesn't cut it, ignoring that what Sheik says when teaching songs can easily be written off a hyperbole the song doesn't even do anything like this, it just warp Link to the Shadow Temple.

Think the only argument for any kind of Immeasurable speed in Zelda is Ganondorf's laugh transcending space and time when he got the complete Triforce and even that's pretty jank.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Think the only argument for any kind of Immeasurable speed in Zelda is Ganondorf's laugh transcending space and time when he got the complete Triforce and even that's pretty jank.

"FTL, Immeasurable when laughing".

 

[TheGatememer]

"FTL, Immeasurable when laughing".

 

[Dust_Collector]

Marvel Skyfathers will watch in horror as Ganon taps into the laughforce to speed blitz them

 

[Tyloxtus]

It really isn't, at all, the fact you even admit it isn't confirmed canon just goes to show how ****** it actually is as you can't even say it with a straight face for certain, but yeah no it's very much hilariously not canon and is impossible to be canon. Also, we do not accept "dubiously canon" as canon on this wiki, either it IS canon, or we don't use it.

Literally all one shot stories, ever, are dubiously canon. Practically the majority of Marvel and DC is either dubiously canon or doesn't explicitly state where it is in the timeline. In fact a ton of comics based on TV shows do this too. We include those feats on this site.

Glad you agree they're debunks.
And learn how we treat canon, we have standards you know?

I never said they actually worked.
No we don't. And you're one to talk, you'll call half a game noncanon because you don't like it.

Lmao cool connection, that being just upgrading your weapons between modes (like every other warrior game), ignoring the actual continuity of how literally everything in adventure mode can't fit within story, and is just a set up of fun challenge maps secluded in its own game mode.

The seals existing is proof all the weapons exist in canon.

You know damn well what I mean, the impact doesnt result in High 6-A destruction, glassing the whole goddamn planet, rendering the entire story board and challenge map as a whole inhospitable. Tbh you COULD calc that specific impact, it'd probably be like 7-C.

"Skull Kid can't actually do the moon feat"
"Yes he can"
"Well the moon doesn't actually destroy the map"
"Yes it does"
"Well it doesn't show the planet blowing up onscreen, locking you out of that part of the game permanently"

Holy shit dude just quit while you're behind. In fact the Moon in that map is WAY bigger than it is in canon.

What? The size of the moon isn't why it's High 6-A, it's the AFTERMATH of the impact that makes it High 6-A that destroys the entire planet. The size alone of the moon is actually less btw, it's only like 80 meters long (which is still larger than any moon in HW, but that doesn't matter).

It's not. And obviously the fact it destroyed the planet is why it's *Planet level.

A great fairy (incomparably weaker than MM) conjuring a moon to smash Argorok for example in HW, and that's like it, without any huge aftermath, is pretty damning evidence that just having a moon and it being pulled down is not inherently a High 6-A feat, ESPECIALLY within the confines of HW. Stop cherry-picking and ignoring how the game actively establishes your baseless assumptions to NOT be the case.

"Super Saiyan 3 Goku firing a Kamehameha at Kid Buu, and like that's it, without any huge aftermath, is pretty damning evidence that he's not Galaxy level." It didn't even hit the ground lol. Also why would she be weaker? HW Great Fairy is stronger than Link without the Master Sword. And Lana (who is half of a person who guarded all of time) couldn't pull Argorok yet the Great Fairy could, so

And again, missing the huge glaring fact that even harming Skull Kid isn't a High 6-A feat because said High 6-A feat annihilates him.

Why do you keep ignoring and not mentioning that VSBW itself has Skull Kid at 5-B Durability and surviving it?

Lmao no you didn't. Your proof is a promotional poster that NEVER actually happens. She doesn't actually have Majora's Mask, all it is, is an aesthetic DLC costume that has absolutely zero effects on her, is never demonstrated or recognized as actually being a thing, and CAN'T be a thing as we see Lana's story, start to finish, and she never gets MM, let alone gets the chance to acquire it at any point. Because it isn't canon, never happened, and is just a DLC costume (of which there are MANY in the game).

Literally effects on her are being shown in the doggone image itself. Your assumption that it's noncanon is a purely fanon belief due to the fact that we see her story end. There's a very obvious point where it could happen and that's after Ganon but before the postgame story, and that's just one place it could be.

Yeah, she would be able to conjure the moons in your non-canon hypothetical scenario, whether or not they'd be High 6-A is inherently not the case, as Skull Kid's aren't inherently High 6-A either, and if they were, she wouldn't scale to them, because High 6-A moon drops, as seen with Skull Kid, is more of a suicide tactic that they can't withstand and the game establishes not all moon drops are High 6-A as well.

They would all be that strong, since they're able to beat Skull Kid.

Yeah, like uh, traveling from Point A to Point B, not going on a wild and wacky adventure where she secretly got Majora's Mask, fought Young Link, and beat the shit out of beast Ganon (damn why did Ganon want the Triforce again if he was already beast ganon and Lana solo'd his ass off screen as she traveled from the deku forest to meet with Link and Zelda? Hell why was Ganon sealed in Story if he was already unsealed in adventure mode when you fight dudes like him, Ghirahim and so on? Or if you argue i happens afterward, why is Ganon unsealed again with the full triforce when they actively stopped that and put his ass away and Lana pissed off to be a time wzard?), oh right, because it never happened, couldn't happen, and the whole of adventure mode is non-canon and is just fun challenges and scenarios.

Only Link is able to fight Ganon. Also it's heavily implied they're timeline-hopping because they show up in Termina and areas that exist in the main Zelda timeline but not the Hyrule Warriors universe.

And this doesn't just apply to Lana, take Imp Midna for example, we know exactly what she's doing and who she's with at all times in story, she even leaves the whole dimension at one point, so why does say, Tingle fight Imp Midna a whatever random place in adventure mode with a specific set of challenges?

I dunno, why can anyone fight anyone in Free Play Mode? The point of Adventure is anyone can fight anyone, so they all scale to each other. Also Midna came back later.

BECAUSE THE HIGH 6-A FEAT OBLITERATES HIM AND HE DIES FROM IT. THE LEVEL OF ENERGY THAT STEMS FROM THE HIGH 6-A FEAT YOU ARE TRYING TO SCALE EVERYONE TO DOESN'T EVEN HAPPEN IN HW AND IS EXPLICITLY ESTABLISHED THAT MOONDROPS DON'T HAVE TO BE THAT STRONG. HE DOES NOT SCALE TO HIGH 6-A IN DURABILITY, IT IS LOWER, HE IS DEMONSTRABLY A GLASS CANNON.

SKULL KID WAS DAZED, THIS IS WHAT ENABLED HER TO END THE """"""FIGHT"""""", BY WAILING ON HIM WHILE STUNNED, IGNORING HOW HE WAS FINE AFTERWARD WITHOUT ANY NOTABLE DAMAGE, EVEN IF SHE BLEW A HOLE THROUGH HIS TORSO, SHE STILL WOULDN'T BE HIGH 6-A, BECAUSE HIGH 6-A ANNIHILATES SKULL KID, AS HE IS A GLASS CANNON.

This isn't hard to comprehend.

Show me one time he's EVER been a glass cannon onscreen.

Tfw beating Ganon with a mop and pot lid and how they're like 5-A because they 1/60th, also a random sword after being sucked up by an octo is more powerful than the MS. Tfw the day and night cycle in Hyrule happens within 1 minute. Tfw Chuchu's can murder Link. Tfw the unironic tens of thousands of gameplay intricacies that aren't canon.

Mops will break, like, hours before they beat Ganon in TotK. Also he can oneshot the pot lid. Not sure what the octo thing is referring to, unless you mean the Great Spin Attack, which was Link? You mean it happens within 12 minutes. Hey, you're the one who said a 6-C can beat a 5-B by "wailing on him" so you're really one to talk about multiple Chu Chus doing the same to someone MUCH weaker.

And what? No, I'm saying Skull Kid ISN'T HIGH 6-A at all times, is explicitly lower than High 6-A in durability, and so on. And as such, it isn't that the cast can't scale to Skull Kid (though your reasoning for it is ******* ass trying to scale via what is him essentially just playing, dudes like Ganon would probably upscale), but rather scaling to Skull Kid under these conditions ISN'T HIGH 6-A.

I'm not seeing a Varies on Skull Kid's profile. Do you actually think a Lv. 255 Link with the Darkmagic Sword is weaker than a Lv. 1 Skull Kid?

No he wasn't? He was playing a game of "tag" with her, it's just his version of a game of tag is dangerous. he wasn't being serious or bloodlusted while dong so, he's laughing like the whole time, saying catch me, and wondering if she can get past the monsters he summons to catch him.

Man you REALLY can't differentiate between narrative and gameplay huh?

Actually they were playing hide and seek, that was said from like very early on, but sure. He still wanted to kill Linkle.

Yeah, he was, because he was stunned, something the game's description of the events and cutscenes explaining what transpired corroborate.
Ignoring he was fine afterward (afterward being like, 8 seconds) and showed no notable damage (something would acknowledge if the case like it does with other characters post-battle), Skull Kid's dura isn't High 6-A to begin with.

And the compass isn't featless? Its feat of shining sacred light that dazzles and stuns Skull Kid is a feat in and of itself? Remember, Skull Kid is weak to that type of shit.

You're basically doing the equivalent of scaling a dude with Kryptonie to supes because the Kryptonite stunned Supes while the dude wails on him, and supes goes "ok **** i give up stop", before getting back up and is fine and going "ok but next time that wont happen", after supes prior to the kryptonite was just messing around and having fun and even says at one point how his foe can't handle his power if they actually fought.

You're really wanking how much the compass "stunned" him. In the actual level he was practically like, "Owie ow!" He wasn't completely motionless with birds tweeting around his head for hours until Linkle finally knocked his health down all the way which retroactively never went down even a little before that.

Yeah it was the last thing he says in the level, and the giving up was the second last thing. This whole exchange between Linkle and Skull Kid, from her wailing on him, his defeat, him saying ok **** fine, her going ok, then him getting up and being fine takes place over the course of 4 sentences, like literally 20 seconds. So yes, it WAS the immediate next thing he did, unironically and quite literally, not even seconds later.

He wasn't though? He's fine. If you're taking the depletion of the boss health bar as "he's injured", lmao, you know you deplete his HP bar at like 4 points in the level, despite the depletion, Linkle and his dialogue don't reflect that, instead, what's happening narratively is a game of tag, and Skull being fine after each stage, with his speech and words stating it as a game and her trying to catch him, he is fine in all of these, laughing, and having fun, because he is not actually hurt. Notable in this is that after the 3rd time, aka in gameplay Linkle had already begun depleting his HP bar, Skull Kid makes explicit note of how even if Linkle catches him, she can't actually handle him, all bu confirming that nah dude there's a clear line between funny musou gameplay and what's happening, and that Skull Kid hasn't been injured and instead lowkey even confirms his superiority over her.

Skull Kid was literally only an issue because he could teleport away. Being dazzled meant he couldn't teleport away. You're also assuming that just because Skull Kid joked that meant he was uninjured. Also Ganondorf and Cia talk about how unstoppable they are all the time, does that mean Link ackshually can't hurt either of them?

Yeah, in gameplay because the game has RPG elements, the MS in legend, aka the actual canon story, is treated as the ultimate sword that blows everything else out of the water because it canonically does

There are literally swords stronger than the Master Sword all the time. Like ever since Ocarina of Time. In fact that's literally 100% of the point of the Biggoron Sword, which the Darkmagic Sword is >>>>>>>, by the way.

Case and point, you have a REAL issue with understanding the difference between gameplay and lore if that's your response to why RAMPARDOS hits HARDER THAN ARCEUS IN GAMEPLAY.

It's not, Pokemon just has bad scaling. The actual reason is because Arceus has no Plates.

And Skull Kid himself is like, idk, 9-B cap and explicitly harmless by his own power? All the funny meme shit is from the Majora's Mask. The weapon does not affect how much power MM grants and decides to give Skull Kid (note, SK can't actually use its power freely as he's to weak of a host).

Holy shit lmfao. Wall level Hyrule Warriors Skull Kid. It's so obvious you don't want Hyrule Warriors to have a place in Zelda debating. You also can't change that the weapons multiply his power.

Bro it ain't even paying rent at this point

I don't even pay rent.

Aka the only reason it was accepted
You know you NEED agreements for things to be accepted here right?

...Yes, that's the only way to get CRTs accepted on this site.
Good thing I already got them.

Also, good job conveniently ignoring the impossible contradictions between story and the adventure mode, such as everything with Ganon, the contradictions between established power differences such as Ganon and Cia (and Cia being above multiple dudes as it is, and so on), impossible events that can not overlap with the story, and these things being rampant among the majority of the cast. Good job continuing to ignore how the High 6-A kills Skull Kid, and by even arguing that they scale to him by hurting him actually LIMITS them below High 6-A as they don't straight up vaporize him with one hit, capping their Ap, and then by association the durability of them as said AP can hurt each other.
Your scaling is awful, you don't understand how continuity works, the segregation between story and gameplay, game mechanics, and ignore very, very, huge red flags and holes in your conclusion that you continue to conveniently ignore. And also goddamn a DLC costume change that's entirely aesthetic as evidence.

Here's what I heard: "I don't like your evidence." Meanwhile your copium has led you into believing 70% of the verse is noncanon and that the entire scaling of the verse is wrong because Skull Kid wasn't automatically put at the top of it. Not surprising because you become an irredeemable contrarian whenever I talk about changes I want to make.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Why do you keep ignoring and not mentioning that VSBW itself has Skull Kid at 5-B Durability and surviving it?

Don't have much to say in this debate since I really only played HW once when the switch version came out, but saying that VSBW currently has his durability that high isn't a good reason since the current statistics can be (And are) wrong. Bro having durability higher than he actually does on an outdated profile don't mean much, man can get briefly stunned by Deku Link bubbles if caught off guard and in the event the moon isn't stopped the screen shows Majora's Mask (Very much without a host) as the only thing left in the flames.

There are literally swords stronger than the Master Sword all the time. Like ever since Ocarina of Time. In fact that's literally 100% of the point of the Biggoron Sword

If you wanna count the Biggoron Sword as being stronger than the Master Sword then it's pretty much the only one. I mean the lokomo sword in Spirit Tracks is also rated higher but that's also just super weird and I don't know why we do that, not that it matters since even then it brings the total to a whopping 2 which puts a dent in the whole "swords stronger than the Master Sword all the time" thing given the sheer amount of swords the series tosses out.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Oh also I forgor to ask but for the OOT sages we just upscaling from the Master Sword and treating their combined power + master sword as just being exponential when he eventually fights Ganondorf to be conservative, or we making each one about a sixth-ish of TOP Ganondorf for their combined power helping Link become comparable to him?

 

[TheGatememer]

Oh also I forgor to ask but for the OOT sages we just upscaling from the Master Sword and treating their combined power + master sword as just being exponential when he eventually fights Ganondorf to be conservative, or we making each one about a sixth-ish of TOP Ganondorf for their combined power helping Link become comparable to him?

Just say “At most Low 5-B” for each sage, or something along those lines, imo

 

[Chariot190]

Literally all one shot stories, ever, are dubiously canon. Practically the majority of Marvel and DC is either dubiously canon or doesn't explicitly state where it is in the timeline. In fact a ton of comics based on TV shows do this too. We include those feats on this site.

Lmao. Marvel and DC comics are actually stated which universe they belong to, all the time. And we only use what's confirmed canon to each when scaling them, why do you think we have like 30 Superman profiles? In the case of DC, these things even have whole names like Elseworlds, hell recently in Batman, PFP Batman (main timeline), met with Dark Knight Returns, DCAU, Adam West, Red Rain, and more Batmans in the multiverse.

DC and Marvel are very good when explaining what is and isn't canon.

To give a more apt example. fighting game finishers, the wiki doesn't even treat those as canon half the time unless they're ACTUALLY USED in story, like Tager's from BlazBlue.

I never said they actually worked.
No we don't. And you're one to talk, you'll call half a game noncanon because you don't like it.

I call a side mode non-canon because it's impossible to have occurred within the actual canon and contradicts it completely and it's never once said to be canon so we wouldn't use it anyway even if it wasn't completely impossible to have happened.

The seals existing is proof all the weapons exist in canon.

No? What sort of dumbass logic is that.

"Skull Kid can't actually do the moon feat"
"Yes he can"
"Well the moon doesn't actually destroy the map"
"Yes it does"
"Well it doesn't show the planet blowing up onscreen, locking you out of that part of the game permanently"

Holy shit dude just quit while you're behind. In fact the Moon in that map is WAY bigger than it is in canon.

"And does it destroy the entire planet, the map, and everything within it? No? Then it's not a High 6-A feat. You realize the High 6-A feat isn't "Skull Kid pulls down the moon", but rather "the resulting destruction glasses the entire goddamn planet", something that kills him too lmao." - me like 50 posts ago.

Again, he CAN'T do the moon feat, dropping a moon ISN'T the High 6-A feat, the High 6-A feat is the AFTERMATH of it. The result in HW is NOT comparable to High 6-A. The Map is NOT High 6-A (We actually have calcs of Termina's destruction from like 2013 before the fact it planet wiped was common knowledge, it's like 6-C funnily enough). There is no evidence it destroys the whole goddamn planet, the reason it is High 6-A, destroying bits of the map or tiles or reset the map should you no kil the boss is NOT High 6-A.

its size DOES not matter, it could be the size of a pebble and be 3-A, or the size of a country and be like 6-B tops. The High 6-A aspect is from razing the WHOLE planet.
Though I will say, are you really taking an abstracted pixelated map to scale dude?

It's not. And obviously the fact it destroyed the planet is why it's *Planet level.

Uh, no actually, the reason it's 5-B is due to the KE of the moon being pulled down within 5 minutes from a certain distance. Something that DOESN'T happen in HW, like at all, it takes the full 3 days to collide. And that ignores how HW explicitly and demonstrably has moons just be conjured up of varying sizes so we have no reason to think this one has identical mass to the irl moon, let alone the standard orbital distance.

Like bruh


or even



Like blud is using a mini moon as a soccer ball

Or for others, this



Not even 30m based off Argorok, hell barely even shifts the clouds too so kinda sus KE

Which is to say, nice try. Nothing in HW shows or even implies any moo drop is High 6-A, and even gives us demonstrable showings as to why they shouldn't be assumed as such.

"Super Saiyan 3 Goku firing a Kamehameha at Kid Buu, and like that's it, without any huge aftermath, is pretty damning evidence that he's not Galaxy level." It didn't even hit the ground lol. Also why would she be weaker? HW Great Fairy is stronger than Link without the Master Sword. And Lana (who is half of a person who guarded all of time) couldn't pull Argorok yet the Great Fairy could, so

Uh, you realize Argorok is like High 6-C right? If you're going to wank and cross-scale to the main canon, you don't get to cherry-pick what gets used (especially like the SINGLE thing HW goes out of its way to show not being the case). Also Argorok is slammed by it directly, he'd carry the kinetic energy.

Also shit example, DBZ has Ki Control thus bad example, never use DBZ as an example of DC.

HW Great Fairy is also not that strong? I mean she is strong but literally NOTHING to imply High 6-A or 5-B, especially not her puny moon that doesn't even kill the High 6-C TP boss.

Wtf are you on about? Lana's status doesn't mean shit, that's like saying a king is 6-B because he's a king, not withstanding Cia got most of the power.

When the hell do they ever say the GF is stronger than the Master Sword? If that's the case that's even more damning because her feats kinda suck, and in case you haven't picked up on it, Im saying Link isn't High 6-A either, so being stronger than him just means higher into High 6-C too if that is even the case.

Why do you keep ignoring and not mentioning that VSBW itself has Skull Kid at 5-B Durability and surviving it?

Because it's wrong and he literally died by the High 6-A version of his feat, the 5-B version, ALSO kills him btw.

VSBW can be wrong, and is wrong here, and it will be changed, I mean hey isn't like I've spent 10 months working on a comprehensive MM and OOT overhaul right?
That was rhetorical.

Literally effects on her are being shown in the doggone image itself. Your assumption that it's noncanon is a purely fanon belief due to the fact that we see her story end. There's a very obvious point where it could happen and that's after Ganon but before the postgame story, and that's just one place it could be.

The IMAGE ITSELF ISN'T CANON, holy shit. It's a promo cg, never happened.
We see her story from start to finish, it never happens and never could happen, we know what she was doing, this situation could not have happened.
After she beats Ganon? She ***** off back to being a time wizard. It never happens afterward.
It also isn't a High 6-A moon either, we need to see what the aftermath even is.

This isn't hard to understand.

They would all be that strong, since they're able to beat Skull Kid.

SKULL KID'S DURA ISN'T EVEN HIGH 6-A LET ALONE ALL THE OTHER ISSUES.

Only Link is able to fight Ganon. Also it's heavily implied they're timeline-hopping because they show up in Termina and areas that exist in the main Zelda timeline but not the Hyrule Warriors universe.

AND YET NONE OF THAT HAPPENS IN STORY MODE AND WE SEE THEIR STORY FROM START TO FINISH. LINK NEVER GOES TIMELINE HOPPING.

I dunno, why can anyone fight anyone in Free Play Mode? The point of Adventure is anyone can fight anyone, so they all scale to each other.

YES THANKS FOR POINTING OUT ANOTHER RED FLAG AND HOW IT CONTRADICTS THE CANON AND ESTABLISHMENTS WITHIN THE ACTUAL STORY.

Because yes, Ghirahim, while serving as Ganon's lackey, def fought Wizro at sky keep off screen because uh.........?????

Also Midna came back later.

Yeah, and we see everything she did in that time back till she went back home. I know what I said, at NO POINT could ANY of the adventure mode map interactions with Midna ever occur, because they didn't. This applies for like 95% of the cast too btw.

Show me one time he's EVER been a glass cannon onscreen.

WHEN HIS GODDAMN MOON DROP KILLS HIM AND EVERYTHING TO THE PLANET EXCEPT THE MASK ITSELF.

Mops will break, like, hours before they beat Ganon in TotK.

And yet, it can still damage and even kill him still.

Also he can oneshot the pot lid.

And yet, it can block attacks from things that the mop scales to. And also still BLOCK that attack from Ganon.

Not sure what the octo thing is referring to, unless you mean the Great Spin Attack, which was Link?

Why the hell would octo be talking about the spin attack? Im talking about rock octo buffs.

You mean it happens within 12 minutes.

Not in OOT, shit is like 2 1-2 minutes tops.

Hey, you're the one who said a 6-C can beat a 5-B by "wailing on him" so you're really one to talk about multiple Chu Chus doing the same to someone MUCH weaker.

No I'm the one who said a High 6-C, give or take, can beat a stunned not even High 6-A. And said dude is fine afterward anyway.

I'm not seeing a Varies on Skull Kid's profile. Do you actually think a Lv. 255 Link with the Darkmagic Sword is weaker than a Lv. 1 Skull Kid?

His profile, along wth 95% of Zelda profiles, are dogshit and need overhauls? This has been a long-known fact, which is why people working on them bit by bit.

Also lmao game mechanics.

Actually they were playing hide and seek, that was said from like very early on, but sure. He still wanted to kill Linkle.

I mean if you want to be even more specific they were playing the japanese equivalent of oni or whatever.
Who actually gives a shit what the exact game was, point was Skull Kid was treating it as a game and going "tee-hee come and catch me!" and shit. (He actually DOES say and tell Linkle to "catch him" multiple times, ya know, like tag, not that the semantics matter at all).

No? When did it ever say he WANTED to kill Linkle, putting her in dangerous situations, mostly summoning monsters to impede her trying to catch him, is not the same as him actively fighting her wanting her to die. The fact he's telling her to catch him and makes it explicit that he's playing kinda of implies he isn't TRYING to kill her, but trying to play and mess with her, it's just his perception has become twisted due to te influence of MM so his playing and pranks take a dark turn, almost as if that's his main defining trait. He's just utterly ******* unhinged.

You're really wanking how much the compass "stunned" him. In the actual level he was practically like, "Owie ow!" He wasn't completely motionless with birds tweeting around his head for hours until Linkle finally knocked his health down all the way which retroactively never went down even a little before that.

No I'm not? The game LITERALLY says this shit.
"What's this!? Gah... it's so bright!"
[Skull Kid is dazzled by the light of the compass! Defeat Skull Kid]

And then the actual cutscene following the gameplay focuses on this specific aspect of him being dazed, even saying Linkle was just chasing Skull Kid and then the compass reacted to her plight and lit up and that's how she got it back.

Skull Kid, mind you, is WEAK to that type of shit, like this is an established weakness of his. Or well more specifically the mask, to the point that when directly manifesting, sacred light straight up duranegs him worse than it does Ganon.

Skull Kid was literally only an issue because he could teleport away.

Also Skull Kid after several of the alleged "Linkle beats him in gameplay"

"Even if you catch me... You wouldn't be able to handle me...",
literally confirming that nah dude.

That's also wrong, Linkle was having trouble with the fodder, and this is even pointed out
"I can't believe how much trouble you're having! Hee hee! Still, I won't give back the compass"

In your effort to wank the shit out of everything via gameplay, you keep ignoring the actual narrative and hell, even the actual dialogue that accompanies the gameplay.

Being dazzled meant he couldn't teleport away.

I mean, yeah it did that too. Lowkey nulled his ass.

You're also assuming that just because Skull Kid joked that meant he was uninjured.

Yeah? Ironically, in adventure mode and freeplay, we SEE how he acts when actually injured, it is NOT him messing around and playing, he gets pissed and even has character portraits for it. None of which happen at all in actual story or this scene and all his character reaction portraits bar his "ok I give up" after being dazed and wailed n, are either all HAPPY reactions, or neutral.

And yeah, he was playing, messing around, after 3 of the alleged beatdowns, he goes on record saying Linkle can't handle his power even if she caught him which dictates he's still fully confident that his power surpasses her's, given he's been watching her have trouble with the mere fodder he's summoned he'd have a pretty good idea too, something he also comments on.

Also, that isn't what his character is like, if Skull Kid was hurt, he wouldn't be laughing and playing a game, he'd throw a tantrum, say how much it hurts, etc, ya know, like he usually does when hurt?

There are literally swords stronger than the Master Sword all the time. Like ever since Ocarina of Time. In fact that's literally 100% of the point of the Biggoron Sword, which the Darkmagic Sword is >>>>>>>, by the way.

Yeah, except you're taking gameplay again over actual lore. MS is the king, confirmed to be the strongest sword out of gameplay in that era too (sometimes anyway, idk what Nintendo is cooking, it's like 50/50 in oot between if MS or BGS is stronger, theres statements for both). All you did was prove my point.

The MS, IN HW's canon and lore, is treated as the ultimate weapon it usually is, as usual, again. This is no different than Lynel Crusher #420 being >>> 5-A MS in ToTK, it does not reflect the actual canon.

Also Ganondorf and Cia talk about how unstoppable they are all the time, does that mean Link ackshually can't hurt either of them?

Ganondorf and Cia up their own ass, and are very, very, confident in the Triforce. Inversely, someone like Impa is humble and modest and doesn't do that. None of them are the Skull Kid, what matters is how he acts and behaves when harmed.
Also in one case Link actually DIDN'T hurt Ganon and he was sandbagging so...

It's not, Pokemon just has bad scaling. The actual reason is because Arceus has no Plates.

No it's because BST's aren't 100% canon and just because one Pokemon, like idk, SHUCKLE has the highest durability ******* ever, doesn't mean it's more durable than any legend to ever exist including the cosmic gods like Arceus
Even further, both Dragonite and Pidgeot have mach 2 movement speed, stated directly, yet they have diff speed BSTs, wow ain't that wacky how strong stuff is in gameplay doesn't always reflect the actual canon?

Holy shit lmfao. Wall level Hyrule Warriors Skull Kid. It's so obvious you don't want Hyrule Warriors to have a place in Zelda debating.

9-B is without the mask, I'm pointing out why weapons really don't matter to Skull Kid when the reason he isn't dog fodder, is because of the funny mask, the funny mask that picks and chooses how much power to give him. That Skull Kid canonically can not uitilize fully.

You also can't change that the weapons multiply his power.

Yes I can because we need a direct statement that it does to use multipliers on this wiki?
You're on the wiki that didn't use goddamn Super Saiyan 1 multipliers for like nearly a decade

...Yes, that's the only way to get CRTs accepted on this site.
Good thing I already got them.

CRT is actually open still brother.
I could just go and post in that as to why it's wrong and see if any votes get overturned.

Here's what I heard: "I don't like your evidence."

I mean yeah, I don't, because the evidence is awful and basically doesn't exist

Meanwhile your copium has led you into believing 70% of the verse is noncanon

Adventure mode is, in fact, not stated canon, has countless impossible contradictions and events that could not happen in story, is just a side mode, and so on. So yes.

and that the entire scaling of the verse is wrong because Skull Kid wasn't automatically put at the top of it.

He wouldn't be anyway? Ganon with complete Triforce is?

The entire scaling of the verse is wrong because the way you scale Skull Kid is wrong, not because of where Skull Kid scales.

Not surprising because you become an irredeemable contrarian whenever I talk about changes I want to make.

Uh, ain't just me dude, your changes are just riddled with misunderstandings, wank or downplay, or a critical miscomprehension in how the wiki works or how gameplay and lore should interact on a case-by-case scenario. Make a good change and I'll agree

Also funny you paint this as me having some kind of hate boner for HW when I'm working on a goddamn Class P calc for the ******* dudes, it's just your scaling is bad.

 

[Chariot190]

Btw, despite your incessant claims of how much i want Skull Kid or whatever to be the god tier, if you find a different High 6-A feat or scaling, or hell even higher, that ACTUALLY works, i could not give less of a **** if they scale to such a thing.

 

[TheGatememer]

Skull Kid is 5-B
ToP Ganondorf is above Skull Kid because ToP, so ToP Ganondorf is 5-B, above Skull Kid.
ToP Ganondorf is beaten by Master Sword, so Master sword is 5-B, above ToP Ganondorf.
Master Sword is 5-B, but damaged by Guardians even at full power, so Guardians are above Master Sword at 5-B.
King Rhoam Bosphoramus Hyrule one-shot a Guardian. King Rhoam Bosphoramus Hyrule is above Guardians, and is therefore 5-B at the top of the scaling chain

 

[Qawsedf234]

That's also wrong, Linkle was having trouble with the fodder, and this is even pointed out

To add, the final boss of Linkle's quest and her hardest fight was an angry King Dodongo, a boss that baseline Link also defeated in his first outing. She also couldn't defeat said Dodongo without the compass nerfing his anger as well.

I'm not seeing her really scaling to Majora.

 

[Tyloxtus]

To add, the final boss of Linkle's quest and her hardest fight was an angry King Dodongo, a boss that baseline Link also defeated in his first outing. She also couldn't defeat said Dodongo without the compass nerfing his anger as well.

I'm not seeing her really scaling to Majora.

Linkle also defeated Zant in the same storyline.

 

[Emerald]

Zant is kinda fodder

 

[Tyloxtus]

Never thought I'd see an 8-C argument for Zant on here

 

[Chariot190]

Zant kind of is fodder, he's like, canonically dusted and blown to ******* bits, by Midna, who was straight up murdered by Ganon with just the ToP.

Like he's above temple bosses, but his whole power is just whatever miniscule fraction of Ganon's power he was given.

Hell the fact Linkle didnt utterly shit stomp him kinda a huge indication she isnt even close to the higher end dudes.

Also nobody said 8-C Zant, stop strawmanning everyone.

 

[Tyloxtus]

Actually his whole power is his abilities as a Twili sorcerer plus the miniscule fraction (plus his power as a king if you buy that being a separate thing from the fraction). Also the Zant that Midna killed with the Fused Shadow was heavily injured and exhausted by Link, who himself went straight from defeating Zant to Hyrule Castle and going 4 rounds with Ganondorf (giggity). He's actually one of the people we closest scale to Triforce of Power Ganondorf.

I said 8-C because I implied Zant is stronger than King Dodongo and he went against it.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Also the Zant that Midna killed with the Fused Shadow was heavily injured and exhausted by Link

The thing with that scene is that, being injured and exhausted aside, the game treats that fraction of Power Midna used with the Fused Shadow as being above Zant in general, it's treated as being kinda insane that she could so easily kill Zant like that and then she gets dunked on by Ganondorf even when using it's full power.

 

[Tyloxtus]

The thing with that scene is that, being injured and exhausted aside, the game treats that fraction of Power Midna used with the Fused Shadow as being above Zant in general, it's treated as being kinda insane that she could so easily kill Zant like that and then she gets dunked on by Ganondorf even when using it's full power.

Well yeah, either way we just saw Zant tank the Master Sword for 7 phases.

 

[Chariot190]

Uh, idk if you remember much about TP, but Zant's magical potential and power was absolute dogshit, and kinda way he wasnt chosen to be king, driving him to his angsty mid-life crisis. All his cool magic, power, and come from Ganon, explicitly.

So? He was beat up, this isnt DBZ, he's still just as durable. Midna LITERALLY popped him, ON ACCIDENT, and is mortified how she accidently obliterated him without even trying.
Midna gets killed by Ganondorf with the ToP pretty nonchalantly.

Ganondorf >> Midna with fused shadow >>>>> Zant.

Also, we do not know how long it was between Link going from Zant to Hyrule castle, given some pieces of heart and shit is only available afterward, well needless to say it wasnt immediate. Not only that but when Midna and Link engaged Ganon, they were both blatantly just fine as we see in cutscenes, she nor Link were in this exhaustive stat that somehow effected how strong they were, especially given her power comes from an artifact, not her own. Not only that, Midna was killed after round 2 when she decided to actually engage Ganon herself, being killed by him in like literally seconds.

So yes, Zant kind of is fodder. And no, we dont "actually he's one of the closest we scale to Ganon", like Ganon has nothing to do with his scaling.

 

[Chariot190]

Well yeah, either way we just saw Zant tank the Master Sword for 7 phases.

Thanks to BOTW and TOTK, the MS has a canonical power slider. It should also be noted that Link evidently wasnt trying to murder him, just beat his bitch ass, which he does just fine and seemingly casually based on the post fight cutscene.

I say it's evident Link wasnt trying to kill given how he disengages when Zant is struggling to continue fighting, and based on how Midna, immediately after, is shocked she accidently killed him, something she obviously thought wasnt going to happen.

Couple that with Link being equal when serious with the dude Zant is suckling off of, who killed Midna, who obliterated Zant with a fraction of the power that is below Ganon and by proxy end game Link.

Nah man he strong, but he do be kinda stinky compared to the top dogs

 

[Tyloxtus]

Oh boy I know where this is going

Uh, idk if you remember much about TP, but Zant's magical potential and power was absolute dogshit, and kinda way he wasnt chosen to be king, driving him to his angsty mid-life crisis. All his cool magic, power, and come from Ganon, explicitly.

Literally never stated in the story. Canonically he was just jealous of Midna so Ganondorf granted him the power to overthrow her. Nothing about this bad potential or whatever.

So? He was beat up, this isnt DBZ, he's still just as durable. Midna LITERALLY popped him, ON ACCIDENT, and is mortified how she accidently obliterated him without even trying.
Midna gets killed by Ganondorf with the ToP pretty nonchalantly.

If you hit a guy who's had every bone in his body broken with a cinderblock, he's gonna die. Also popping him was the intent, she was surprised at how easy it was, what's this "accident" crap?

Also, we do not know how long it was between Link going from Zant to Hyrule castle, given some pieces of heart and shit is only available afterward, well needless to say it wasnt immediate. Not only that but when Midna and Link engaged Ganon, they were both blatantly just fine as we see in cutscenes, she nor Link were in this exhaustive stat that somehow effected how strong they were, especially given her power comes from an artifact, not her own. Not only that, Midna was killed after round 2 when she decided to actually engage Ganon herself, being killed by him in like literally seconds.

Wow, so he got a little more durable probably. Wait, why would Midna and Link be exhausted if they just got there?

 

[Tyloxtus]

Thanks to BOTW and TOTK, the MS has a canonical power slider. It should also be noted that Link evidently wasnt trying to murder him, just beat his bitch ass, which he does just fine and seemingly casually based on the post fight cutscene.

Different canon, also complete fanon that Link didn't want to kill him since that was the point of the Sols and TP Link killed whole villages of Zant's minions in the past.

I say it's evident Link wasnt trying to kill given how he disengages when Zant is struggling to continue fighting, and based on how Midna, immediately after, is shocked she accidently killed him, something she obviously thought wasnt going to happen.

It was because Midna was "killed" that Link got angry in the first place.

Couple that with Link being equal when serious with the dude Zant is suckling off of, who killed Midna, who obliterated Zant with a fraction of the power that is below Ganon and by proxy end game Link.

Yeah, and to think endgame TP Link barely got stronger.

 

[Chariot190]

Literally never stated in the story. Canonically he was just jealous of Midna so Ganondorf granted him the power to overthrow her. Nothing about this bad potential or whatever.

But it is though? We're told how they get picked for being ruler, and how it's based on their magics.

Iirc it's stated twili other than the ruler can't even use magic, meaning only Midna actually had any.

Wow, so he got a little more durable probably. Wait, why would Midna and Link be exhausted if they just got there?

Hey you said it, not me. They obviously weren't which is why you saying they were is kind of dumb.

 

[Chariot190]

Different canon,

Lmao.

also complete fanon that Link didn't want to kill him since that was the point of the Sols and TP Link killed whole villages of Zant's minions in the past.

Yeah, he did, and then he just kinda choose not to? Like man idk why they didnt, call it PIS if you want so they could do a cool scene of Midna killing him instead, either way he demonstrably opted not to. He also beat the shit out Zant and Link wasn't at all exhaustive after so Zant really aint scaling to him in end game.

It was because Midna was "killed" that Link got angry in the first place.

Yeah so? When was it established Link was Gohan? Being mad just means he trying harder now.

Yeah, and to think endgame TP Link barely got stronger.

All but confirming Zant really doesnt scale to the top dogs if Link/Ganon>>Midna full power>>Midna not even trying>>>>>Zant.

 

[Chariot190]

If you hit a guy who's had every bone in his body broken with a cinderblock, he's gonna die. Also popping him was the intent, she was surprised at how easy it was, what's this "accident" crap?

I missed this. If, the intent was always to pop him, why would she be shocked at how easy he was popped?

If she's shocked the amount of power she used had that affect, she obviously didnt think the amount of power she used would do that to him. So there is no "she always intended to pop him", otherwise she would have used what she thought was an appropriate amount of power to do so, and by proxy not be ******* mortified she did that.

Also dude, cinderblock example is dumb as shit, if i break every bone in your body (damn link mustve stomped him ig), if i drop a block on you, you arent going to explode, youll just take the same amount of damage as you would normally from it, just the additional wounds makes it harder not die.

 

[Tyloxtus]

But it is though? We're told how they get picked for being ruler, and how it's based on their magics.

Iirc it's stated twili other than the ruler can't even use magic, meaning only Midna actually had any.

“Based on their magics” doesn’t narrow it down in the least. There’s like a dozen things that could mean.

Hey you said it, not me. They obviously weren't which is why you saying they were is kind of dumb.

No, I said Zant was exhausted.

 

[Tyloxtus]

Yeah, he did, and then he just kinda choose not to? Like man idk why they didnt, call it PIS if you want so they could do a cool scene of Midna killing him instead, either way he demonstrably opted not to. He also beat the shit out Zant and Link wasn't at all exhaustive after so Zant really aint scaling to him in end game.

Nobody said Link spared Zant. Midna just killed him first.

Yeah so? When was it established Link was Gohan? Being mad just means he trying harder now.

Never said Link was Gohan, idk why you said that

All but confirming Zant really doesnt scale to the top dogs if Link/Ganon>>Midna full power>>Midna not even trying>>>>>Zant.

Do you ever listen to a word I ever tell you?

 

[Chariot190]

“Based on their magics” doesn’t narrow it down in the least. There’s like a dozen things that could mean.

Read the rest. Idk why you just ignored that.

No, I said Zant was exhausted

And i quote

who himself went straight from defeating Zant to Hyrule Castle and going 4 rounds with Ganondorf (giggity)

What is even the purpose of this shit?

Nobody said Link spared Zant. Midna just killed him first.

Yeah they didnt, they just showed instead with Link just standing there having disengaged.

Never said Link was Gohan, idk why you said that

Because Link being angry isnt giving him some power boost.

Do you ever listen to a word I ever tell you?

Yes and it keeps getting worse.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Nobody said Link spared Zant. Midna just killed him first.

There is like a whole solid minute after Link beats Zant and has him slumped over in his throne before Midna makes a move, we've seen Link go for killing blows in this game (Like against Nando) but here he just leaves Zant alone

 

[Tyloxtus]

I missed this. If, the intent was always to pop him, why would she be shocked at how easy he was popped?

If she's shocked the amount of power she used had that affect, she obviously didnt think the amount of power she used would do that to him. So there is no "she always intended to pop him", otherwise she would have used what she thought was an appropriate amount of power to do so, and by proxy not be ******* mortified she did that.

Also dude, cinderblock example is dumb as shit, if i break every bone in your body (damn link mustve stomped him ig), if i drop a block on you, you arent going to explode, youll just take the same amount of damage as you would normally from it, just the additional wounds makes it harder not die.

Midna probably thought he would be more difficult to pop.

If you pound a fruit with a mallet, it becomes a lot easier to cut in half.

 

[Emerald]

Different canon

 

[Emerald]

It was because Midna was "killed" that Link got angry in the first place.

My brother in christ, Link isn't Jotaro he doesn't have Rage Power

 

[Dust_Collector]

Honestly the fact that Midna freaks out over the amount of power in that one moment more than she ever did when faced with Zants powers should speak volumes. Especially in the original Japanese text where she explicitly freaks out about the power of the Fused Shadow instead of killing Zant.

 

[Chariot190]

Midna probably thought he would be more difficult to pop.

If you pound a fruit with a mallet, it becomes a lot easier to cut in half.

What? Dude she was mortified. The popping was NOT intentional.

You say she thought he'd be more difficult to pop but she only did one attack, if the intent was POPPING him, and she attacked, and he pops, what's the issue? It's what she wanted and wouldve used enough power to do so.
Tbh i dont think they ever once say she intended to pop him anyway?

Idk why you trying to argue Zant holds a candle to the dudes he's two one shots below.

Also, also, bro, getting beat up doesnt make it not as difficult to OBLITERATE YOU, like bruh there's a fine line between "oh he was hurt so he was killed" and "oh he was hurt but was literally dusted". The damage he sustained from Midna would have him being beat up a nonfactor.

 

[Tyloxtus]

My brother in christ, Link isn't Jotaro he doesn't have Rage Power

Why do people keep saying this like that’s the point I was making?

 

[Tyloxtus]

Honestly the fact that Midna freaks out over the amount of power in that one moment more than she ever did when faced with Zants powers should speak volumes. Especially in the original Japanese text where she explicitly freaks out about the power of the Fused Shadow instead of killing Zant.

Well yeah, by the time we meet her she’s already used to being an imp. Midna always hated Zant more than she feared him anyway.