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KIngdom Hearts Conceptual Light/Darkness->Hearts and Nobody NEP

Bobsican said:
KH Birth by Sleep novel:


In other words, Xehanort wanted Ventus as a vessel to move his heart to and keep living, but he was too frail/weak to withstand his power, and so he used him for material of the X-Blade to get true KH by dividing his heart into one of pure light (Ventus'), and then one of pure darkness (Vanitas). This act greatly damaged Ventus' heart and the remains of that heart would have vanished away were it not for Sora donating a part of his heart.
Click to expand...
I mean a scan about the nature of light and dark in the verse
 
Well, there's no individual scan, going around what a heart is in terms of nature is the entire premise of the series and it's never directly said, the blog post mentioned in the OP already features the scans, unless you want further explanations on a particular part? In which case please be more specific.
 
Bobsican said:
Well, there's no individual scan, going around what a heart is in terms of nature is the entire premise of the series and it's never directly said, the blog post mentioned in the OP already features the scans, unless you want further explanations on a particular part? In which case please be more specific.
Click to expand...
The specific part I want is about the light and dark component of the heart
 
Bobsican said:
As we can see here, the darkness within every heart is indeed as old as the world, and thus bound to true KH to the start as implied before. For that matter, very early in the timeline there used to be no darkness within anybody's heart, which is why there were no Heartless either. Instead everyone's heart was pure light, which nowadays in the series is pretty rare.
Click to expand...
"Pretty rare" That's the understatement of the century honestly considering even SORA has Darkness in his heart
 
Bobsican said:
As we can see here, the darkness within every heart is indeed as old as the world, and thus bound to true KH to the start as implied before. For that matter, very early in the timeline there used to be no darkness within anybody's heart, which is why there were no Heartless either. Instead everyone's heart was pure light, which nowadays in the series is pretty rare.
Click to expand...
Seen do you have more cause there is really nothing here that says CM
 
...The argument for CM for light and darkness is that they make up and define all that exists and were around before the universe (aka, true KH), and hearts are made up of the very same light and darkness. Even if a heart doesn't exist until after birth, it's stated anyways that the darkness (And presumably the light as well) within anybody's heart are still as old as the world, and thus true KH.
Beyond that, the "Conceptual Hearts" part of the blog should cover this part fairly well.
 
Bobsican said:
...The argument for CM for light and darkness is that they make up and define all that exists and were around before the universe (aka, true KH), and hearts are made up of the very same light and darkness. Even if a heart doesn't exist until after birth, it's stated anyways that the darkness (And presumably the light as well) within anybody's heart are still as old as the world, and thus true KH.
Beyond that, the "Conceptual Hearts" part of the blog should cover this part fairly well.
Click to expand...
Except in one of the scans you sent they said they are born from the heart?
And it existing before heart does not grant CM also
 
Not exactly, that darkness/light is still the same one as the one that was around before the world, or more specifically true KH's.

What grants CM is how they behave as a concept, removing a heart removes the thing in question from existence, and we no longer require a concept to apply universally to qualify as a type 1 or 2 concept.
 
Bobsican said:
Not exactly, that darkness/light is still the same one as the one that was around before the world, or more specifically true KH's.

What grants CM is how they behave as a concept, removing a heart removes the thing in question from existence, and we no longer require a concept to apply universally to qualify as a type 1 or 2 concept.
Click to expand...
Nothing so far says they behave as CM that’s why I was asking for scans for light and dark that you can get
 
Pain_to12 said:
Nothing so far says they behave as CM that’s why I was asking for scans for light and dark that you can get
Click to expand...
Quoting from here...

1. Independent Universal Concepts: Such concepts are completely independent from the part of reality they govern. These concepts shape all of reality within their area of influence and at whatever level that area exists in, and everything in it "participates" in these concepts. For example, a circular object is circular because it is "participating" in the concept of "circle-ness". In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of their area of influence, while the opposite wouldn't affect the concept.
Click to expand...

Uh... light and darkness are independant from reality themselves as much as a incorporeal thing that was around before the universe was a thing is. Hearts are made of that very same darkness (and light, in fact light was on people first as shown there, even if it came from the darkness), which define the existence of everything (Ref 5 to 8), and so everything that exists does "participate" on relation to light, darkness and hearts.

While hearts may exist after someone's birth, their components (light and darkness) are still the same as the one that was there before it (aka, the one that was before the universe, more specifically true KH's, as said before), and destroying someone's body or soul wouldn't affect their heart, while destroying/removing somebody's heart leads into the respective body and soul being erased from existence, and so this can't work as a type 2 concept.

Anything I've missed?
 
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It wasn't equated to evil, but rather, and I quote, "Evil burgeoned in those hearts, begetting more darkness", meaning that evil can make darkness, rather than evil and darkness being the same thing, which would be more assumptive, this is consistent as said before.

Anyways, for the other part, well, a good chunk of the plot in the series goes around Heartless, which are the manifestation of the darkness in hearts.

But more notably...
kh-ultimania.livejournal.com

KH Ultimania - Nomura Interview (part 3)

Even after the translation is done, this is still subject to change (I am not a professional, y'know). Because of that reason, DO NOT PUBLISH ELSEWHERE (link back here instead) Latest Update : 12/23/10 Fixed wording Original Japanese Scans NOMURA INTERVIEW (PART 3 out of 4) Part 3:…
kh-ultimania.livejournal.com
---Even though Riku was the rightful owner of the Keyblade, then why did Sora obtain the Keyblade in the beginning? (Scene in question)

Nomura: Even though I would like to keep that obscure, there is a scene in Destiny islands where Riku is being swallowed by darkness, a light appears, and Sora first obtains the keyblade. With the setting I created, the darkness that surrounds them is Riku’s heart’s darkness. At that moment, Sora enters the darkness, and the light he sees inside is Riku’s heart’s light. Sora, who was squirming in the darkness to save Riku, touched the light and temporarily obtained the Keyblade from Riku.

It's also a plot point that Xehanort removed the darkness from Ventus' heart to create Vanitas, with Ventus thus ending with a heart of pure light, and Vanitas with a heart of pure darkness.
 
Bobsican said:
It wasn't equated to evil, but rather, and I quote, "Evil burgeoned in those hearts, begetting more darkness", meaning that evil can make darkness, rather than evil and darkness being the same thing, which would be more assumptive, this is consistent as said before.

Anyways, for the other part, well, a good chunk of the plot in the series goes around Heartless, which are the manifestation of the darkness in hearts.

But more notably...
kh-ultimania.livejournal.com

KH Ultimania - Nomura Interview (part 3)

Even after the translation is done, this is still subject to change (I am not a professional, y'know). Because of that reason, DO NOT PUBLISH ELSEWHERE (link back here instead) Latest Update : 12/23/10 Fixed wording Original Japanese Scans NOMURA INTERVIEW (PART 3 out of 4) Part 3:…
kh-ultimania.livejournal.com
---Even though Riku was the rightful owner of the Keyblade, then why did Sora obtain the Keyblade in the beginning? (Scene in question)

Nomura: Even though I would like to keep that obscure, there is a scene in Destiny islands where Riku is being swallowed by darkness, a light appears, and Sora first obtains the keyblade. With the setting I created, the darkness that surrounds them is Riku’s heart’s darkness. At that moment, Sora enters the darkness, and the light he sees inside is Riku’s heart’s light. Sora, who was squirming in the darkness to save Riku, touched the light and temporarily obtained the Keyblade from Riku.

It's also a plot point that Xehanort removed the darkness from Ventus' heart to create Vanitas, with Ventus thus ending with a heart of pure light, and Vanitas with a heart of pure darkness.
Click to expand...
Yeah, "create" Vanitas 👀
 
Pain_to12 said:
Here in this video,

Darkness was equated to evil, which was the entire thing I’ve been trying to say. It is born from men turning into evil

You trying to equate the light and darkness in people’s heart to literal light and dark is something I’ve not seen a proof for
Click to expand...
No, Darkness isn't the same as evil, evil came from people but Darkness can ne used by good people (Riku for example)
 
You guys keep replying like I know a single thing about KH
I don’t I am only working on what was provided so far and most of it are disjointed asf tbh
 
Personnally I'm just giving some precisions (and honestly, even if you know KH, the series is so overly complicated it's sometimes difficult to get it)
 
Pain_to12 said:
You guys keep replying like I know a single thing about KH
I don’t I am only working on what was provided so far and most of it are disjointed asf tbh
Click to expand...
The information of darkness not being the same as evil is an information that has been provided to you by me earlier in the thread. It isn't that much to demand that you keep track of at least that for a proper evaluation.

Nehz_XZX said:
You mean that light and darkness making up the heart is a metaphor? Not really, it's about as literal as it gets. People in the series can actually derive power from the light and darkness in their hearts and I've mentioned earlier in the thread how someone split someone else into light and dark halves. There have been instances of light or darkness being extracted or brought out from someone's heart, so it's definitely something that is in there.
Click to expand...
I've also elaborated earlier that the presence of light and darkness in the heart is around as literal as it gets. The light and darkness of the heart are major plot points of the series, so you can't not take that into consideration without misjudging the plot.

Should I try to collect everything from this thread in a single post?
 
I was asked to say my thoughts so far
I agree with CM1 for true KH
I disagree with CM for anyone able to manipulate individual hearts there is not enough context for me to agree while I can actually see where you guys are coming from but it can as well be the other way round also
I also agree with some abilities that was shown to be gotten by affecting someone’s else heart
 
What kind of context would be enought to complement the ideal of individual hearts being CM 1 out of their relation to true KH?
 
Bobsican said:
What kind of context would be enought to complement the ideal of individual hearts being CM 1 out of their relation to true KH?
Click to expand...
Affect reality in the same way as True KH just lesser range this time and probably actual feats of CM manip
 
Pain_to12 said:
I was asked to say my thoughts so far
I agree with CM1 for true KH
I disagree with CM for anyone able to manipulate individual hearts there is not enough context for me to agree while I can actually see where you guys are coming from but it can as well be the other way round also
I also agree with some abilities that was shown to be gotten by affecting someone’s else heart
Click to expand...
Nehz_XZX said:
Should I try to collect everything from this thread in a single post?
Click to expand...
Should I make a compilation of the details provided for hearts in this thread for a proper overview?
 
Okay, here is the compilation about the heart facts which I divided into three sections.

The details from the blog in the OP about hearts:
  • Nobodies which lack hearts have a multitude of statements of being non-existent.
    • Nobodies are empty vessels whose hearts have been stolen away being described as spirits that go on even as their bodies fade from existence. Said body that fades away from existence due to lacking a heart becoming its own independent creature is what brings a Nobody into existence.
    • Nobodies are neither light nor dark and can't feel emotions due to lacking a heart which makes them beings of nothingness of which they are described to be embodiments of.
    • A plot point in the series was Nobodies trying to use Kingdom Hearts to attain hearts and become complete beings through that.
      • Nobodies can actually cultivate hearts with the passage of time under the right conditions and the Nobodies that tried to become complete through Kingdom Hearts were tricked as part of a greater scheme.
    • Only the bodies and souls of those who had strong hearts become Nobodies and of those only those who had exceptionally strong hearts retain their original appearance.
    • It is stated that Nobodies don't exist by definition due to being separated from the heart.
    • Destroying a Nobody and releasing the corresponding heart that was stolen by a Heartless results in the return of the original person with the memories of the time as a Nobody being retained.
  • Everything that exists is stated to have a heart with the heart being the reason the body exists. Aside from humans and animals, the director for Kingdom Hearts Nomura personally mentions trees, oceans, rivers and flowers as examples in an interview.
  • A congregation of hearts can make up a Kingdom Hearts.
  • The heart is separate from the soul.
  • The heart has no form, so memories play an important role in forming it. These memories are governed by the heart but the heart is an empty shell without them.
  • Xehanort who is a major antagonist of the series and generally knowledgeable about these matters said that the heart has the final say in all things.
  • Nomura stated that light and darkness are basically both sides of having a heart with a heart always having both of these things.
    • King Mickey who is a major character and also considered knowledgeable in this regard stated that the world is made up of light and darkness.
    • Terra who is another major character of the series stated that light and darkness can't exist without each other with the context of the statement being the time he spent as a heart in a Realm of "Nothing" that had neither.
  • Vexen who is a scientist who researched the heart was astonished by the idea of someone existing without their heart but was disappointed to see that it was actually about the organ called heart.
  • Xehanort stated that the world began in darkness, that from the darkness came the light and that from the light came the people who had hearts. Kingdom Hearts is considered the first light.
  • The heart of a person can be considered their essence.
The details about hearts that were brought up in the thread before the discussion with Pain to12:
  • Hearts are separate from the body and are not physical.
  • A person is made up of a body, a soul and a heart.
  • Worlds have hearts and if that heart is taken by the Heartless, then that world will be destroyed as a consequence.
  • True Kingdom Hearts holds all hearts in existence at once.
  • The soul is capable of supporting mental processes without a heart and has been indirectly called a mind.
  • Nomura stated that the portrayal of a heart of a person before they were born was planned but was discarded due to opinions from overseas that the heart doesn't exist until after birth which indicates a western influence on the concept of heart that is used in Kingdom Hearts which makes sense due to the series working with Disney material.
  • Nomura indicated the possibility of two characters being the embodiments of the light and darkness of another character which would make them incorporeal if that was indeed the case according to him.
  • Hearts are capable of supporting mental processes while separated from the body and the soul.
The details about hearts that were mentioned in this thread to Pain to12:
  • When someone's heart and body perishes but that person still persists they end up in The Final World which is inhabited by the faded remnants of hearts which belong to people whose attachments are so strong that they cannot pass on. The Final World is the edge of reality just before a heart ceases to exist.
  • Kingdom Hearts has existed since the beginning of the world.
  • The heart of a world is an aggregation of all the hearts that make up that world.
  • Hearts are responsible for emotions.
  • Xehanort implanted other people with fragments of his own heart to gradually turn them into other versions of himself.
  • Xehanort split Ventus into two people with only light and darkness respectively with the resulting person of pure darkness being Vanitas.
  • Nobodies are stated to not age.
  • Ventus ended up losing his heart after a fight with Vanitas and was left in a room inside a castle with special properties that made it so that nobody could find him. He stayed like that for more than a decade with no negative side effects like aging while unconscious, starvation or even an unkempt appearance.
  • Disembodied hearts can be placed into a blank Replica which basically has the appearance of a white mannequin which will assume the usual appearance of the person associated with that heart.
  • Xehanort destroyed Kairi's heart with his Keyblade and erased her from existence as a result.
  • Hearts exist across the different worlds despite the fact that they can have different laws that govern them.
  • Keyblades can manipulate hearts.
  • Keyblades were created based on the X-Blade, which can control true Kingdom Hearts, by being pulled out of the depths of a heart.
  • Hearts cannot be contained by data and the process of digitalizing them is incalculable. A machine designed to digitalize an artificial Kingdom Hearts failed and exploded.
  • Digital beings can have hearts despite hearts being uncontainable for data. A digital being gained a real Keyblade in place of an inferior imitation it previously had signifying that it had a real heart and it was said that it had surpassed the system because of that.
  • It's impossible to recreate a heart based on data and a process like that can only achieve a partial restoration.
  • When Xehanort's heart possessed Terra Terra's previously brown hair turned white and his eye color changed to yellow both of which come from the white-haired and yellow-eyed Xehanort. Later in the series people who carry a fragment of Xehanort's heart are shown to have yellow eyes.
  • Vanitas took on a similar appearance to Sora the moment Ventus came in contact with Sora's heart.
  • Memories being lost, forgotten or altered can result in things like the heart collapsing or reality being rewritten. Memories can however never truly fade and the heart can recognize things that the mind doesn't.
  • Sora was able to make an alternate version of a friend he previously met remember him even though he had never met that alternate version before.
  • Xehanort's heart was merged with another person's and he received glimpses and dreams of that person's life as a result. Sora had the hearts of other people contained in his own that caused to feel a sense of familiarity with people he didn't actually know and even had hallucinations of people that those other hearts knew.
  • Disembodied hearts can completely reconstruct their bodies provided there is a medium and a person who remembers them.
  • Hearts can form connections which can allow for telepathic communication under certain circumstances and can be used by those who mastered the Keyblade as a method of travelling through space and time.
  • Living Toys are confirmed to have hearts and still consist out of plastic and cloth.
  • Hearts have been called strange floating heart symbols in-universe. This is in the context of a Heartless attack with the people involved being unfamiliar with Heartless and not understanding what the floating hearts indicate for the missing victims which have presumably faded from existence due to lacking their heart.
  • Pinocchio who is an animate wooden puppet has a heart.
  • Petals have hearts.
  • The metaphysical heart that is being discussed here has nothing to do with the organ that has the same name.
  • There are characters who can manipulate the light and darkness of the heart of an individual.
  • Characters in the series can derive power from the light and darkness in their hearts.
  • There are instances where light or darkness has been extracted or brought out from someone's heart.
  • Some characters in the series display the opinion that light is good and dark is evil but the series has made a point that this isn't the case. While darkness is the source of a lot of dangers encountered in the series and it is associated with negative emotions characters who use darkness or harbor a noteworthy amount of it can be heroic, benevolent and well-meaning. There are also Spirit Dream Eaters which are creatures of darkness that serve as allies in KH3D. On the other hand characters associated with light can be quite misguided at times.
  • The exctraction of the darkness from Ventus' heart resulted in a significant part of his heart missing which was represented by a platform.
  • Having a heart doesn't give someone any additional powers they can make use of in a match unless they have an ability that can manipulate hearts.
  • Existing and having emotions means that you have a heart.
  • Hearts aren't an energy characters are using but a metaphysical component of their being.
  • The remnants of Ventus' heart after having Vanitas extracted out of him would have vanished if Sora didn't interfere.
  • Due to being embodiments of the darkness within hearts Heartless are also the embodiment of the darkness that had been in the world since its inception.
  • Darkness exists in the hearts of people due to an event in the far past.
  • Presently, no person has a heart that doesn't contain darkness except the Princesses of Heart and Ventus.
  • Nomura stated that in the scene on Destiny Island where Sora and Riku are surrounded by darkness that this darkness was the darkness from Riku's heart.
One of the few things that I can add to this compilation is that the effects hearts have on appearance in the case of Replicas, the people Xehanort either possessed or implanted fragment of his heart in and Vanitas showcase that hearts have an effect on the physical attributes of whatever they inhabit. Replicas seem to work independently from things like gender and body build and Vanitas didn't even have a face before Ventus' heart came into contact with Sora's heart. Add to that how the heart is the essence of a person, is required for existing and how it is generally important for the series' plot and lore and it's one of the most fundamental aspects of a person in the series that has profound effects on the person it belongs to. The fact that Nobodies can grow hearts is explained to be due to the body trying to replace the missing heart at the first chance it gets. This means that not only does everything in the series have a heart, it's downright impossible to permanently not have one which further underscores just how fundamental a heart is to individual people and reality as a whole in the series. For further context, I'd like to add that worlds have separate flows of time and are spatially separate from each other and they still share hearts as a shared constant despite the different laws that can exist between worlds. There is also the fact that people in the series, including the various inhabitants of the different worlds that never go outside of them, generally understand what is meant when hearts are mentioned which indicates that hearts fall at least partially under a concept of heart shared by people of varying cultural backgrounds.
 
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So... @QuasiYuri and @Pain_to12 , thoughts on the above? Namely in regards of if true KH is fine as a type 1 concept, and if the same applies to individual hearts for the before-mentioned reasons.
 
Pain_to12 said:
Affect reality in the same way as True KH just lesser range this time and probably actual feats of CM manip
Click to expand...
Sorry for the double post, but...

Removing the heart out of someone causes them to cease to exist (Examples include Xehanort destroying Kairi's heart and thus erasing her existence, Heartless stealing hearts and the ones losing them ceasing to exist as stated in the link, etc).

Editing a heart can also interfere with the existencial surroundings of a being, for example, when Naminé edited Repliku's memories, a card transformed into a "good luck charm" accordingly, which in a similar manner when done to Sora also transformed Kairi's good luck charm as well, as explained.
 
Nehz_XZX said:
Okay, here is the compilation about the heart facts which I divided into three sections.

The details from the blog in the OP about hearts:
  • Nobodieswhich lack hearts have a multitude of statements of being non-existent.
    • Nobodies are empty vessels whose hearts have been stolen away being described as spirits that go on even as their bodies fade from existence. Said body that fades away from existence due to lacking a heart becoming its own independent creature is what brings a Nobody into existence.
    • Nobodies are neither light nor dark and can't feel emotions due to lacking a heart which makes them beings of nothingness of which they are described to be embodiments of.
    • A plot point in the series was Nobodies trying to use Kingdom Hearts to attain hearts and become complete beings through that.
      • Nobodies can actually cultivate hearts with the passage of time under the right conditions and the Nobodies that tried to become complete through Kingdom Hearts were tricked as part of a greater scheme.
    • Only the bodies and souls of those who had strong hearts become Nobodies and of those only those who had exceptionally strong hearts retain their original appearance.
    • It is stated that Nobodies don't exist by definition due to being separated from the heart.
    • Destroying a Nobody and releasing the corresponding heart that was stolen by a Heartless results in the return of the original person with the memories of the time as a Nobody being retained.
  • Everything that exists is stated to have a heart with the heart being the reason the body exists. Aside from humans and animals, the director for Kingdom Hearts Nomura personally mentions trees, oceans, rivers and flowers as examples in an interview.
  • A congregation of hearts can make up a Kingdom Hearts.
  • The heart is separate from the soul.
  • The heart has no form, so memories play an important role in forming it. These memories are governed by the heart but the heart is an empty shell without them.
  • Xehanort who is a major antagonist of the series and generally knowledgeable about these matters said that the heart has the final say in all things.
  • Nomura stated that light and darkness are basically both sides of having a heart with a heart always having both of these things.
    • King Mickey who is a major character and also considered knowledgeable in this regard stated that the world is made up of light and darkness.
    • Terra who is another major character of the series stated that light and darkness can't exist without each other with the context of the statement being the time he spent as a heart in a Realm of "Nothing" that had neither.
  • Vexen who is a scientist who researched the heart was astonished by the idea of someone existing without their heart but was disappointed to see that it was actually about the organ called heart.
  • Xehanort stated that the world began in darkness, that from the darkness came the light and that from the light came the people who had hearts. Kingdom Hearts is considered the first light.
  • The heart of a person can be considered their essence.
Click to expand...
The nobodies won’t qualify for NPE due to the fact that still have a soul but they qualify for abstract existence
Nehz_XZX said:
The details about hearts that were brought up in the thread before the discussion with Pain to12:

  • Hearts are separate from the body and are not physical.
  • A person is made up of a body, a soul and a heart.
  • Worlds have hearts and if that heart is taken by the Heartless, then that world will be destroyed as a consequence.
  • True Kingdom Hearts holds all hearts in existence at once.
  • The soul is capable of supporting mental processes without a heart and has been indirectly called a mind.
  • Nomura stated that the portrayal of a heart of a person before they were born was planned but was discarded due to opinions from overseas that the heart doesn't exist until after birth which indicates a western influence on the concept of heart that is used in Kingdom Hearts which makes sense due to the series working with Disney material.
  • Nomura indicated the possibility of two characters being the embodiments of the light and darkness of another character which would make them incorporeal if that was indeed the case according to him.
  • Hearts are capable of supporting mental processes while separated from the body and the soul.
Click to expand...
True KH gets CM1
Nehz_XZX said:
The details about hearts that were mentioned in this thread to Pain to12:
  • When someone's heart and body perishes but that person still persists they end up in The Final World which is inhabited by the faded remnants of hearts which belong to people whose attachments are so strong that they cannot pass on. The Final World is the edge of reality just before a heart ceases to exist.
  • Kingdom Hearts has existed since the beginning of the world.
  • The heart of a world is an aggregation of all the hearts that make up that world.
  • Hearts are responsible for emotions.
  • Xehanort implanted other people with fragments of his own heart to gradually turn them into other versions of himself.
Click to expand...
Corruption for xenahort
Nehz_XZX said:
  • Xehanort split Ventus into two people with only light and darkness respectively with the resulting person of pure darkness being
Click to expand...
Explain this better
Nehz_XZX said:
  • Nobodies are stated to not age.
Click to expand...
Longetivity for them or immo type 1
Nehz_XZX said:
  • Ventus ended up losing his heart after a fight with Vanitas and was left in a room inside a castle with special properties that made it so that nobody could find him. He stayed like that for more than a decade with no negative side effects like aging while unconscious, starvation or even an unkempt appearance.
Click to expand...
Self sustenance I guess
Nehz_XZX said:
  • Disembodied hearts can be placed into a blank Replica which basically has the appearance of a white mannequin which will assume the usual appearance of the person associated with that heart.
  • Xehanort destroyed Kairi's heart with his Keyblade and erased her from existence as a result.
Click to expand...
NPI with keyblade
Nehz_XZX said:
  • Hearts exist across the different worlds despite the fact that they can have different laws that govern them.
  • Keyblades can manipulate hearts.
  • Keyblades were created based on the X-Blade, which can control true Kingdom Hearts, by being pulled out of the depths of a heart.
  • Hearts cannot be contained by data and the process of digitalizing them is incalculable. A machine designed to digitalize an artificial Kingdom Hearts failed and exploded.
Click to expand...
Resistance to data manip I guess
Nehz_XZX said:
  • Digital beings can have hearts despite hearts being uncontainable for data. A digital being gained a real Keyblade in place of an inferior imitation it previously had signifying that it had a real heart and it was said that it had surpassed the system because of that.
  • It's impossible to recreate a heart based on data and a process like that can only achieve a partial restoration.
  • When Xehanort's heart possessed Terra Terra's previously brown hair turned white and his eye color changed to yellow both of which come from the white-haired and yellow-eyed Xehanort. Later in the series people who carry a fragment of Xehanort's heart are shown to have yellow eyes.
  • Vanitas took on a similar appearance to Sora the moment Ventus came in contact with Sora's heart.
  • Memories being lost, forgotten or altered can result in things like the heart collapsing or reality being rewritten. Memories can however never truly fade and the heart can recognize things that the mind doesn't.
  • Sora was able to make an alternate version of a friend he previously met remember him even though he had never met that alternate version before.
  • Xehanort's heart was merged with another person's and he received glimpses and dreams of that person's life as a result. Sora had the hearts of other people contained in his own that caused to feel a sense of familiarity with people he didn't actually know and even had hallucinations of people that those other hearts knew.
  • Disembodied hearts can completely reconstruct their bodies provided there is a medium and a person who remembers them.
Click to expand...
Immo type 9
Nehz_XZX said:
  • Hearts can form connections which can allow for telepathic communication under certain circumstances and can be used by those who mastered the Keyblade as a method of travelling through space and time.
  • Living Toys are confirmed to have hearts and still consist out of plastic and cloth.
  • Hearts have been called strange floating heart symbols in-universe. This is in the context of a Heartless attack with the people involved being unfamiliar with Heartless and not understanding what the floating hearts indicate for the missing victims which have presumably faded from existence due to lacking their heart.
  • Pinocchio who is an animate wooden puppet has a heart.
  • Petals have hearts.
  • The metaphysical heart that is being discussed here has nothing to do with the organ that has the same name.
  • There are characters who can manipulate the light and darkness of the heart of an individual.
Click to expand...
Can be CM or light and dark manip, so maybe a possibly with a note on his it works
Nehz_XZX said:
  • Characters in the series can derive power from the light and darkness in their hearts.
  • There are instances where light or darkness has been extracted or brought out from someone's heart.
  • Some characters in the series display the opinion that light is good and dark is evil but the series has made a point that this isn't the case. While darkness is the source of a lot of dangers encountered in the series and it is associated with negative emotions characters who use darkness or harbor a noteworthy amount of it can be heroic, benevolent and well-meaning. There are also Spirit Dream Eaters which are creatures of darkness that serve as allies in KH3D. On the other hand characters associated with light can be quite misguided at times.
  • The exctraction of the darkness from Ventus' heart resulted in a significant part of his heart missing which was represented by a platform.
  • Having a heart doesn't give someone any additional powers they can make use of in a match unless they have an ability that can manipulate hearts.
  • Existing and having emotions means that you have a heart.
  • Hearts aren't an energy characters are using but a metaphysical component of their being.
  • The remnants of Ventus' heart after having Vanitas extracted out of him would have vanished if Sora didn't interfere.
  • Due to being embodiments of the darkness within hearts Heartless are also the embodiment of the darkness that had been in the world since its inception.
  • Darkness exists in the hearts of people due to an event in the far past.
  • Presently, no person has a heart that doesn't contain darkness except the Princesses of Heart and Ventus.
  • Nomura stated that in the scene on Destiny Island where Sora and Riku are surrounded by darkness that this darkness was the darkness from Riku's heart.
One of the few things that I can add to this compilation is that the effects hearts have on appearance in the case of Replicas, the people Xehanort either possessed or implanted fragment of his heart in and Vanitas showcase that hearts have an effect on the physical attributes of whatever they inhabit. Replicas seem to work independently from things like gender and body build and Vanitas didn't even have a face before Ventus' heart came into contact with Sora's heart. Add to that how the heart is the essence of a person, is required for existing and how it is generally important for the series' plot and lore and it's one of the most fundamental aspects of a person in the series that has profound effects on the person it belongs to. The fact that Nobodies can grow hearts is explained to be due to the body trying to replace the missing heart at the first chance it gets. This means that not only does everything in the series have a heart, it's downright impossible to permanently not have one which further underscores just how fundamental a heart is to individual people and reality as a whole in the series. For further context, I'd like to add that worlds have separate flows of time and are spatially separate from each other and they still share hearts as a shared constant despite the different laws that can exist between worlds. There is also the fact that people in the series, including the various inhabitants of the different worlds that never go outside of them, generally understand what is meant when hearts are mentioned which indicates that hearts fall at least partially under a concept of heart shared by people of varying cultural backgrounds.
Click to expand...
 
Bobsican said:
Sorry for the double post, but...

Removing the heart out of someone causes them to cease to exist (Examples include Xehanort destroying Kairi's heart and thus erasing her existence, Heartless stealing hearts and the ones losing them ceasing to exist as stated in the link, etc).

Editing a heart can also interfere with the existencial surroundings of a being, for example, when Naminé edited Repliku's memories, a card transformed into a "good luck charm" accordingly, which in a similar manner when done to Sora also transformed Kairi's good luck charm as well, as explained.
Click to expand...
This qualifies for CM
 
I've talked with DontTalkDT on regards of the Nobody NEP in particular in the first posts on the thread, and having a soul wasn't his concern for their NEP, but rather only "sometimes" being intangible out of it, which was covered out of simply being a misconception. In any case, having a soul doesn't disqualify for type 3 NEP as their characteristic is that they're paradoxically existing even though they lack a heart, and are intangible to regular attacks out of it.
AE for Nobodies also seems odd beyond type 2 out of semantics.
 
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