Kingdom Hearts Low 1-C Ocean Between Re:Evaluation

[Bobsican]

Yeah, I may as well do this before someone tries a similar thing but leading with misinformation or something.

So... as some may know, as of this CRT qualifying for Low 1-C by upscaling in size from a tier 2 structure became way more strict, anyways, this thread will merely bring up arguments brought up in this CRT and try to explain how they still fit in the current system.

Before starting, I'd note that regardless of how this goes KH would still be tier 1 out of the whole deal of timeline stacking, just 5-D instead of 6-D, and so by extension please avoid doing tier 1 arguments in favor or against involving that stuff, that'd deserve its own thread.

Similarly I'd also note that the "worlds" are already long accepted as Low 2-C structures, and a in-depth blog detailing the known cosmology so far is here, anyone commenting is ideally expected to read the linked stuff in this OP to minimize redundancy.

I'd just link to the original thread that made KH tier 1 (shoutouts to @Milly_Rocking_Bandit BTW, I edited some parts to be more detailed), but I know the average user here isn't willing to go back and forth to check everything, so...

The Ocean Between

In Kingdom Hearts, the “Ocean Between”, is described as:

There are two ways to travel, one of which is to use a Gummi Ship like Sora and his friends do to move through the "Ocean Between", the space studded with all the worlds.

— Director’s Secret Report XIII

And once more, by Xehanort:

The World is vast—and the worlds within the greater World, uncountable. Like little islands, they dot a great Ocean Between which keeps them ignorant of each other, uncorrupted.

— Xehanort’s Report II

Thirdly, in the same report, it’s cited to be what’s defined as an “Other Sky”. Following this vein of logic, also Cid describes it as an “interspace”.

The direct size of The Ocean Between is explicitly defined by Xehanort once again, in the Japanese iteration of the report, being a structure that possesses an infinite space in comparison to the rest of the "small" worlds that inhabit it.

For reference, worlds in Kingdom Hearts are recurrently stated to be entire space-times. We see this proven true by Joshua and Riku in KH3D, stating each world has separate flows of time, and again, by Xehanort, in Dark Road.

To top it all off into a final statement, that describes the Ocean Between as a “hyperspace”, one that Queen Minnie banished Pete to from the Disney Town "world".

All-in-all, this properly concludes The Ocean Between as a Low 1-C structure, an hyperspace (in relation to a tier 2 structure, thus by definition higher-D than 4D spatially given the context) of infinite size that encompasses an uncountable (currently accepted as 2-B) amount of worlds that are regarded as small in comparison, each with their differentiated flow of space-time, which still fits the new Low 1-C criteria by this method:

Q: Is a structure bigger than a 2-A structure Low 1-C by default?​

No, the default assumption is that this is not the case. "Bigger" could mean having more 2-A structures and, as explained in greater detail previously, having more 2-A structures, or even infinitely many 2-A structures, unless uncountably infinite many, won't scale above a single 2-A structure in size. This is due to these structures actually have the same size as a baseline 2-A structure. It is, however, possible to at least achieve above the baseline 2-A power by upscaling from other characters who've performed 2-A feats or of the feats themselves, rather than by affecting 2-A structures containing other 2-A structures. However, if "bigger" is indicated to mean a size difference that makes the structure qualitatively superior to a 2-A structure the structure qualifies for Low 1-C unless the fiction specifies otherwise.

To elaborate, a structure larger than 2-A meets the requirements for qualitative superiority over them if it either explicitly mentions an uncountably infinite number of universes or has portrayals/statements of being bigger in size than 2-A structures to the point that even infinite multipliers on top of the size of that structure are of no relevance to it. Multiversal structures past Low 2-C frequently have a distance of unknown length along a 5th dimensional axis separating them. That isn't automatically Low 1-C, as for Low 1-C the distance must be known to be of non-insignificant size.

In that regard it is important to consider that, by its nature, it is not possible to accurately depict 5 dimensional space. As such depictions of the multiverse are usually not to be understood as accurate representation of the distance between the universes, but rather just qualitative analogies of the multiverse's structure.

As usual, evaluation of any additional evidence needs to be done case-by-case.

 

[Eseseso]

Seems good, but what exactly is the purpose of this thread?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Seems good, but what exactly is the purpose of this thread?

The Tier of Low 1-C [6D] is moved to Low 1-C [5D]

 

[Robo432343]

To top it all off into a final statement, that describes the Ocean Between as a “hyperspace”, one that Queen Minnie banished Pete to from the Disney Town "world".

I have a different translation than you
When i translated it, it says that Queen Minnie imprisons him in subspace, not hyperspace

 

[Qawsedf234]

Apparently 亜空間 can mean both sub and hyperspace, since the definition of 亜 can vary.

 

[ThanatosX]

Seems good, but what exactly is the purpose of this thread?

From what I understand, there was a bit of talking regarding the validity of the Low 1-C value after the CRT linked in the OP, so this revision is mainly to confirm that the rating is indeed correct.

Regarding the revision in itself, I agree. I will link Ultima's comment in the previous revision, which explains why it qualify in the first place: https://vsbattles.com/threads/kingdom-hearts-re-vising-the-cosmology.148047/#post-5409542

The important piece of information that is often overlooked when speaking about the Low 1-C value of Kingdom Hearts is that the Worlds themselves (4-D structures) are stated repeatedly to be "small" or even "dots" compared to the "infinite" Ocean Between, with the further confirmation of this with the whole "hyperspace" deal. If it was just statements of the Ocean Between being infinite, than that obviously wouldn't be enough.
This, alongside the additional time axis of the Ocean Between, makes the current 6-D value solid to me.

 

[Eseseso]

The Tier of Low 1-C [6D] is moved to Low 1-C [5D]

So this CRT is downgrading the cosmology to 5-D?

Regarding the revision in itself, I agree. I will link Ultima's comment in the previous revision, which explains why it qualify in the first place: https://vsbattles.com/threads/kingdom-hearts-re-vising-the-cosmology.148047/#post-5409542

The important piece of information that is often overlooked when speaking about the Low 1-C value of Kingdom Hearts is that the Worlds themselves (4-D structures) are stated repeatedly to be "small" or even "dots" compared to the "infinite" Ocean Between, with the further confirmation of this with the whole "hyperspace" deal. If it was just statements of the Ocean Between being infinite, than that obviously wouldn't be enough.
This, alongside the additional time axis of the Ocean Between, makes the current 6-D value solid to me.

This is fine.

 

[ThanatosX]

So this CRT is downgrading the cosmology to 5-D?

I don't think so, since what is being discussed in this revision is the additional Spatial dimension rather than the additional Temporal one, but Bob can confirm if that's the case or not when he have time.

 

[Eseseso]

I don't think so, since what is being discussed in this revision is the additional Spatial dimension rather than the additional Temporal one, but Bob can confirm if that's the case or not when he have time.

Ok.

Well either way the reasoning above seems fine to me.

 

[Vietthai96]

just statements of the Ocean Between being infinite, than that obviously wouldn't be enough

what?? 4d structure are embedded and displace across a 5th dimension alreadly, so it the size of said is significantly large enough, it can be tiered, let alone in this case the size of the dimension is infinite, it is enough already, unless there is another change in standard that idk

 

[ThanatosX]

what?? 4d structure are embedded and displace across a 5th dimension alreadly, so it the size of said is significantly large enough, it can be tiered, let alone in this case the size of the dimension is infinite, it is enough already, unless there is another change in standard that idk

I am honestly unsure myself about the new standards, but apparently just being larger, even infinitely so, than a 4-D structure is not enough to qualify on it's own anymore, at least not without further context, for some reason I still don't undestand properly. In this case there is enough context to say that it does thanks to the other statements anyways, so it's not that relevant here, but I think that it was discussed in the revision linked in the OP.
If someone have a better understanding of the new standards, I would be more than happy to be corrected since I am not a fan of how unnecessarily complex the Tier 1 stuff is becoming.

 

[Bobsican]

The aim of this CRT is not to downgrade the verse, but rather to corroborate the current reasonings, meaning that if this passes nothing would change, but if it doesn't the verse goes down to 5-D.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Thread is fine. Even if hyperspace is removed from the evidence, that’s Xehanort’ statement is really the bulk of it.

 

[Georredannea15]

Being larger than 4-D structures is no longer enough for Tier 1 and a 5th axis is needed so that multiple multiverses do not intersect at any angle, this applies to every verse, but unless there is a statement that the 5th axis is significantly larger or infinite, it does not scale.

Other than that 5-D seems good.

 

[Eseseso]

Being larger than 4-D structures is no longer enough for Tier 1 and a 5th axis is needed so that multiple multiverses do not intersect at any angle, this applies to every verse, but unless there is a statement that the 5th axis is significantly larger or infinite, it does not scale.

Other than that 5-D seems good.

I mean he says Hyperspace is Infinite compared to 4-D spacetimes.

 

[Georredannea15]

I mean he says Hyperspace is Infinite compared to 4-D spacetimes.

That's what was already denied to be tier 1, you can be infinitely bigger than something infinite, or you can see it as a finite structure, but that's basically not tier 1 (or rather, not anymore.)

Well, depends on whether you can use the universes as measuring sticks for distances in the depiction or not.
Usually, you can not, because they are depicted as floating bubbles or lines or whatever which don't really depict proper size, and in that case I would say no to all of them. If you can use them in a way to measure the size of the 5D space to prove it's significantly large, then you could get somewhere. But... yeah, depicting 5D space in a way that conserves size is just pretty hard.

 

[ThanatosX]

Being larger than 4-D structures is no longer enough for Tier 1 and a 5th axis is needed so that multiple multiverses do not intersect at any angle, this applies to every verse, but unless there is a statement that the 5th axis is significantly larger or infinite, it does not scale.

Other than that 5-D seems good.

I am not sure if this mean that you agree with 5-D Spatial dimension or not, but in this case there is not only statements of the 5th axis being infinite, but even a size comparison with the 4-D structures it contains, specifying that they are small compared to the infinite space that contains them. Considering the previous comment of Ultima on the matter, this is more than enough to qualify.
Also, the quote you took here:

"Well, depends on whether you can use the universes as measuring sticks for distances in the depiction or not.
Usually, you can not, because they are depicted as floating bubbles or lines or whatever which don't really depict proper size, and in that case I would say no to all of them. If you can use them in a way to measure the size of the 5D space to prove it's significantly large, then you could get somewhere. But... yeah, depicting 5D space in a way that conserves size is just pretty hard."

Is mainly talking about visual depiction, since it talks about using the visualization of the 4-D structures to prove it's significantly large. In this case, we have direct statements that the space is infinite.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Being larger than 4-D structures is no longer enough for Tier 1 and a 5th axis is needed so that multiple multiverses do not intersect at any angle, this applies to every verse, but unless there is a statement that the 5th axis is significantly larger or infinite, it does not scale.

Other than that 5-D seems good.

That is proven in the OP. It’s literally the second quote.

 

[Georredannea15]

I am not sure if this mean that you agree with 5-D Spatial dimension or not, but in this case there is not only statements of the 5th axis being infinite, but even a size comparison with the 4-D structures it contains, specifying that they are small compared to the infinite space that contains them. Considering the previous comment of Ultima on the matter, this is more than enough to qualify.
Also, the quote you took here:

"Well, depends on whether you can use the universes as measuring sticks for distances in the depiction or not.
Usually, you can not, because they are depicted as floating bubbles or lines or whatever which don't really depict proper size, and in that case I would say no to all of them. If you can use them in a way to measure the size of the 5D space to prove it's significantly large, then you could get somewhere. But... yeah, depicting 5D space in a way that conserves size is just pretty hard."

Is mainly talking about visual depiction, since it talks about using the visualization of the 4-D structures to prove it's significantly large. In this case, we have direct statements that the space is infinite.

A space at this level would already be infinite sized, the important thing is not that the space is infinite sized, that the 5th axis, so the volume of the 5th dimension, is infinite. The fact that the size of space is infinite does not mean that the 5th axis is infinite, it basically means that only 4 axes, i.e. the volume of the 4th dimension is infinite, but the volume of the 5th dimension is of trivial size (or of an unknown size)

Space being infinite in itself doesn't matter, as space at that level is infinite in some sense anyway. You would need to be told that either specifically its 5 dimensional volume is infinite or that specifically the 5th dimensional axis (the one you add to the standard timelines) is infinite (or very large) for that to work.

As I quoted, this 5th axis, the volume of the 5th dimension, where universes do not intersect at any angle and are separated from each other, must be infinite or significantly large. The size of this space doesn't really matter in this case.

That's what I disagreed with, but with the hypertimeline situation, 5-D seems good.

 

[KLOL506]

@Ultima_Reality @DontTalkDT @Executor_N0 @Planck69 @Theglassman12 @LephyrTheRevanchist @Lonkitt @CrimsonStarFallen @Deagonx @FinePoint @Elizhaa @DarkDragonMedeus @Celestial_Pegasus @Firestorm808 @Maverick_Zero_X @Qawsedf234 @Agnaa Your input here would be appreciated.

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

I am not sure if this mean that you agree with 5-D Spatial dimension or not, but in this case there is not only statements of the 5th axis being infinite, but even a size comparison with the 4-D structures it contains, specifying that they are small compared to the infinite space that contains them. Considering the previous comment of Ultima on the matter, this is more than enough to qualify.
Also, the quote you took here:

"Well, depends on whether you can use the universes as measuring sticks for distances in the depiction or not.
Usually, you can not, because they are depicted as floating bubbles or lines or whatever which don't really depict proper size, and in that case I would say no to all of them. If you can use them in a way to measure the size of the 5D space to prove it's significantly large, then you could get somewhere. But... yeah, depicting 5D space in a way that conserves size is just pretty hard."

Is mainly talking about visual depiction, since it talks about using the visualization of the 4-D structures to prove it's significantly large. In this case, we have direct statements that the space is infinite.

That is proven in the OP. It’s literally the second quote.

The thing is, DontTalk has an entirely different perspective than Ultima on this:

Space being infinite in itself doesn't matter, as space at that level is infinite in some sense anyway. You would need to be told that either specifically its 5 dimensional volume is infinite or that specifically the 5th dimensional axis (the one you add to the standard timelines) is infinite (or very large) for that to work. But I figure if you have information that specific then you wouldn't need this thread. In general, infinite could mean infinite by 3D or 4D standards, or in the sense of countably infinite times larger than a spacetime continuum, so that is just not enough.

Basically, DontTalk disagrees that a space containing tier 2 constructs is Low 1-C just because it’s described as infinite. According to him, it doesn’t tell us if the space’s 5th dimensional volume is infinite, and it could simply be infinite on the 4th dimensional level (hence why 2-A cosmologies aren’t Low 1-C despite being the culmination of infinite 5-D spaces: because only the 4-D volume is infinite).

I also think Ultima rejected Low 1-C for DMC whose basis was a similar statement of a dimension being infinite compared to a tier 2 construct.

 

[SYPHe5D]

Yeah infinitely larger than a single low 2 C structure isn’t enough for low 1 C rn

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

That’s fine, I disagree with DT. The Ocean Between being infinitely bigger isn’t the justification, it’s the fact that it’s the higher-plane that displaces all of the worlds and prevents them from ever interacting with each other.

 

[ThanatosX]

I also think Ultima rejected Low 1-C for DMC whose basis was a similar statement of a dimension being infinite compared to a tier 2 construct.

Actually, he rejected it because the statement in itself was vague and on itself didn't mean that the "Ray of Light" was minuscule compared to the darkness. Here, there are multiple statements that confirm that the Worlds are small compared to the infinite Ocean Between.

 

[Planck69]

Do we have any actual anything confirming the spatial distance between the worlds being significant or infinite? As far as I understand, the recent CRT disqualified spaces being Low 1-C solely off of them being infinitely larger than standard space-time continuums and/or holding them within them.

In this case, the size of the overall Ocean Between relative to the worlds within it wouldn't really matter, since well, at this point its already infinite in at least 4-dimensional axes. There is a distance between the worlds and this would be the 5-dimensional axis they're displaced across but if what's in the post is all the information we have then that would still leave the 5-dimensional aspects length unknowable and thus not qualify for Low 1-C in and of itself.

For now, I disagree with the Ocean Between still being Low 1-C on its own, based on my understanding of the current tiering system standards, unless there's any more information specifically in regards to the spatial separation between worlds being significant or infinite that isn't just visualisation (which is pretty poor indication for 5-dimensional space, as the quoted tiering system information states).

 

[Vietthai96]

infinitely larger than Low 2-C structure is irrelevant anyway due to the new standard, Ocean Between still a 5th dimension that displacing multiple 4d structures on it, which on the wiki we default it to be 5d space, what left is it is significant in size enough to tier it to Low 1-C (5D)

Edit: @Planck69 ninja'd me

 

[SYPHe5D]

Actually, he rejected it because the statement in itself was vague and on itself didn't mean that the "Ray of Light" was minuscule compared to the darkness. Here, there are multiple statements that confirm that the Worlds are small compared to the infinite Ocean Between.

He also said that it doesn’t matter since the standards was changed too within the same comment, but infinitely larger isn’t the meat of 5D ocean between either way.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Do we have any actual anything confirming the spatial distance between the worlds being significant or infinite? As far as I understand, the recent CRT disqualified spaces being Low 1-C solely off of them being infinitely larger than standard space-time continuums and/or holding them within them.

It is, again, in the OP.

The World is vast—and the worlds within the greater World, uncountable. Like little islands, they dot a great Ocean Between which keeps them ignorant of each other, uncorrupted.

The direct size of The Ocean Between is explicitly defined by Xehanort once again, in the Japanese iteration of the report, being a structure that possesses an infinite space in comparison to the rest of the "small" worlds in comparison that inhabit it.

Each world, harboring its own flow of time independent of each other, is unable to interact with one another due to the sheer size of the Ocean. This is different than just the entire space being infinite, no world can reach another.

 

[Georredannea15]

It is, again, in the OP.






Each world, harboring its own flow of time independent of each other, is unable to interact with one another due to the sheer size of the Ocean. This is different than just the entire space being infinite, no world can reach another.

That's the problem, it's just that the space is in this size, there's no indication that the axis has infinite size, but anyway, the staff is already tagged

 

[SYPHe5D]

i hope that this won’t cause another staff thread.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

That's the problem, it's just that the space is in this size, there's no indication that the axis has infinite size, but anyway, the staff is already labeled

Again, no, it is not the space. Just because a space is infinite does not entail everything between A and B in the space is forever apart. This isn’t the case, because the space-times inside the Ocean cannot interact.

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

It is, again, in the OP.






Each world, harboring its own flow of time independent of each other, is unable to interact with one another due to the sheer size of the Ocean. This is different than just the entire space being infinite, no world can reach another.

That’s true of a space that contains even 2 space-times, it’s why such a space is 5-D in the first place. Time is infinite by default, extending across past/present/future. In order for space-times to exist in parallel, they need a 5-D coordinate plane to never intersect on the 4-D level.

 

[Bobsican]

That's what was already denied to be tier 1, you can be infinitely bigger than something infinite, or you can see it as a finite structure, but that's basically not tier 1 (or rather, not anymore.)

DT then followed with this:

Space being infinite in itself doesn't matter, as space at that level is infinite in some sense anyway. You would need to be told that either specifically its 5 dimensional volume is infinite or that specifically the 5th dimensional axis (the one you add to the standard timelines) is infinite (or very large) for that to work. But I figure if you have information that specific then you wouldn't need this thread. In general, infinite could mean infinite by 3D or 4D standards, or in the sense of countably infinite times larger than a spacetime continuum, so that is just not enough.

While it's not directly stated, in this case it's heavily implied given that it's stated to be an hyperspace of infinite size, as we have End of the World as having infinite space (High 3-A, accepted here), add to that its innate time axis per other accepted cosmology semantics on all worlds and you end up with a tier 2 structure that's already infinite in all 4 axises.

Therefore, the same character (Ansem) being aware of this yet specifying that the Ocean Between is infinite compared to a "small" world, and with another source stating it to be an hyperspace (5-D given the context as explained in the OP), really makes it seemingly still fit the current standards, as by that point it'd be rather assumptive to think it's redundantly talking about infinity on one of the 4 axises that already make up a universe.

 

[Planck69]

It is, again, in the OP.

Yes, I've seen that. But all it tells me is that there is a 5-dimensional separation - which I don't deny - not anything about the extent of this separation. Relative size comparisons like the difference between the islands and an ocean, the stars and space etc. wouldn't really matter on this case, since worlds have a 0 5-dimensional size coordinate anyway.

Each world, harboring its own flow of time independent of each other, is unable to interact with one another due to the sheer size of the Ocean. This is different than just the entire space being infinite, no world can reach another.

I mean, isn't this just the standard proof of spatiotemporal separation needed for Tier 2 to begin with? It'd be weird if these worlds could be reached with normal movement.

 

[Georredannea15]

Again, no, it is not the space. Just because a space is infinite does not entail everything between A and B in the space is forever apart. This isn’t the case, because the space-times inside the Ocean cannot interact.

The fact that the spacetimes cannot interact with each other shows that there is only a 5th axis. The axis that the separated size between them has is the 4th axis of space, not the 5th. The 5th axis is the vertical axis that keeps them in volume 0, and there is no size statement for this. So the 5th axis is unknown or trivial sized.

I have already mentioned above the reasons for this, which stem from the current system

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I mean, isn't this just the standard proof of spatiotemporal separation needed for Tier 2 to begin with? It'd be weird if these worlds could be reached with normal movement.

That’s exactly my point. Two different space-times cannot share the same axis, so they have to be displaced across a higher-plane. That’s what Xehanort expresses, the Ocean is the plane that keeps all of these worlds apart. Just as it requires a plane for two lines to never intersect, it requires another existence for two planes to never intersect.

Ultima echoed the same sentiment in the original thread, by the way:

Same thing happens with planes: For them to be parallel, they shouldn't ever be able to meet, so you'd need them to be displaced over 3-D space. Generalizing that to the 4-D case, spacetimes would obviously have to be displaced over a 5-D region (This works by definition, too: If they're different spacetime continuums then obviously they can't share the same space, in the way 3-D objects exist around us for instance)

The fact that the spacetimes cannot interact with each other shows that there is only a 5th axis, but the axis that the separated size between them has is the 4th axis of space, not the 5th. The 5th axis is the vertical axis that keeps them in volume 0
I have already mentioned above the reasons for this, which stem from the current system

That doesn’t make much sense, really. Axis’ are infinite by default, which is why it calls for the existence of a larger axis to contain it in another.

 

[Planck69]

That’s exactly my point. Two different space-times cannot share the same axis, so they have to be displaced across a higher-plane. That’s what Xehanort expresses, the Ocean is the plane that keeps all of these worlds apart. Just as it requires a plane for two lines to never intersect, it requires another existence for two planes to never intersect.

I mean, this is true but now we need confirmation of this higher axis' size being significant in length i.e. universal or infinite.

Let me use the same line analogy. For two parallel lines on a plane, any metaphor of their thickness relative to said plane doesn't tell us about the extent of the plane (since 1 cm or 1 light-year wouldn't be any different to a thickness of 0).

And the fact that there are a vast number of said lines doesn't really tell us anything about the extent of the plane if we have no knowledge of the distance between them to begin with.

Up scale this to here and we have the same problem. The infinite nature of the Ocean Between on its own is irrelevant since it just needs a minor extent across a 5-dimensional axis to contain everything, when it's other 4 axes are already infinite.

 

[SYPHe5D]

I agree with Planck.

 

[ThanatosX]

He also said that it doesn’t matter since the standards was changed too within the same comment, but infinitely larger isn’t the meat of 5D ocean between either way.

Yes, because now "Bigger than 2-A = Low 1-C" doesn't exist anymore. He never said anything about "infinitely bigger" spaces that dwarfs other 4-D structures to the point of those being "small".

Also, I think it's worth mentioning that in the scan it specifically says "the infinite space that surround this small world". A single World (4-D structure) is surrounded by an infinite space (aka the Ocean Between) which keeps every World isolated and prevent them to interact.
Honestly, KH doesn't qualify I am really curious to see what verse would actually qualify for a quantitative superiority, since the standards now became basically impossible to actually get.

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

Yes, because now "Bigger than 2-A = Low 1-C" doesn't exist anymore. He never said anything about "infinitely bigger" spaces that dwarfs other 4-D structures to the point of those being "small".

Also, I think it's worth mentioning that in the scan it specifically says "the infinite space that surround this small world". A single World (4-D structure) is surrounded by an infinite space (aka the Ocean Between) which keeps every World isolated and prevent them to interact.
Honestly, KH doesn't qualify I am really curious to see what verse would actually qualify for a quantitative superiority, since the standards now became basically impossible to actually get.

So you’re arguing that the timelines are infinitely spaced apart now? That actually would qualify for Low 1-C indisputably, but it comes down to semantics and whether or not you can interpret this statement as worlds having an infinite distance between them (the other stuff about how the worlds never interact isn’t evidence in itself, since that could just be referring to their parallelism).