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King vs Sanji Rematch 2

When has Sanji been in a 1v1 fight that really pushed him to evolve his Haki?

  • FMI he was out of commission
  • Punk Hazard he only had a small fight with Vergo and dipped.
  • Dressrosa he got destroyed by Doffy in seconds.
  • WCI he baked a cake and left.
  • Wano, he had his fight with Queen who he never had that much trouble damaging, and by the time they got into their 1v1s, Sanji had all the tools he needed to beat him with his new Exoskeleton.

In Zoro's fight with King he literally evolved his Haki to beat him. Why assume Sanji's wouldn't evolve if King's haki is superior and they're having a long 1v1?
As I already said because there's no evidence to support him doing so. Zoro's haki grew as a result of the extreme drain from Enma; he himself never actively tried improving his haki to overcome King.

Even a character who we know can bloom their haki to extreme levels in combat like Luffy was unable to overcome the Buso later superiority that Katakuri had despite fighting him for several hours.
 
To be fair, Sanji might just outlast King before he blooms his haki to King's level, so there's that.

There's no level of damage that King can deal to Sanji that can really put him down due to his insane stamina, endurance, and body constitution.

The only attacks that King has that are higher than Sanji's AP values are his flame and heat-based attacks which won't burn Sanji and Sanji could easily just dodge.

Sanji can negate King's durability with Ifrit Jambe and would easily find out King's flame gimmich and exploit it.


King has no real wincons, he only has advantages such has mobility and Busō haki.
 
Going with this, the only things in his arsenal that are stronger than Ifrit+Super Speed would now be his best fire attacks and Magma fire, not really that concerning given those are easy to dodge.

But yeah, i think we all agreed from the start King had more AP, good thing he doesn't have stamina or endurance.
No idea how you came to that conclusion so I'm going to need to see the scaling chain you're using for Sanji's AP.

Endurance is debatable.
I was also thinking of when he sent Zoro flying after the clash with Rengoku Onigiri and when he grabbed Sanji but used Zoan to meteor drop him
That's not lifting strength, just AP.
Again, Luffy needed hours of non stop fighting to pull this up and Zoro had to go near death to pull this up, i am not saying haki blossoms are easy to pull off but they aren't exclusive to them and can be pulled here by Sanji give his stats would allow it.
See my recent post on why he wouldn't just because he's actively fighting close to death.
 
As I already said because there's no evidence to support him doing so. Zoro's haki grew as a result of the extreme drain from Enma; he himself never actively tried improving his haki to overcome King.
Why does there need to be evidence if it's an inherent ability of Haki? Also no one ever said there needed to be a conscious choice to grow your Haki for it to grow. Enma forced Zoros Haki to grow for him by continuously draining him until he started bringing out more and more. In a long fight of extreme difficulty if Sanji is having trouble getting through King's Haki he will eventually grow to match him. Haki is willpower after all.
Even a character who we know can bloom their haki to extreme levels in combat like Luffy was unable to overcome the Buso later superiority that Katakuri had despite fighting him for several hours.
Luffy was always able to damage Katakuri, he couldn't touch him which is why he forced his Obv Haki to bloom. By the time they were actually trading hits and the Buso gap was noticeable the fight was already near the end. Luffy didn't need to evolve his Buso to beat Kat is my main point.
 
No idea how you came to that conclusion so I'm going to need to see the scaling chain you're using for Sanji's AP.

Endurance is debatable.
Are you the same Emi who said King was taken out by 3 attacks from Zoro?
That's not lifting strength, just AP.
The one with Zoro? Meh, I'd say it's both.
See my recent post on why he wouldn't just because he's actively fighting close to death.
Which post?
 
Are you the same Emi who said King was taken out by 3 attacks from Zoro?
While this is accurate, keep in mind that 2 of those 3 attacks were done by a KoH Zoro who easily sliced through King's suit, which was unharmed by a BB and kick from Marco, and even Base Marco's kick matched Kizaru's and later sent Aojiki flying.

So KoH >> King's suit's durability >= Base Marco's AP

Sanji's attacks don't quite scale to that level.
 
So KoH >> King's suit's durability >= Base Marco's AP
Suit scaling
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While this is accurate, keep in mind that 2 of those 3 attacks were done by a KoH Zoro who easily sliced through King's suit, which was unharmed by a BB and kick from Marco, and even Base Marco's kick matched Kizaru's and later sent Aojiki flying.

So KoH >> King's suit's durability >= Base Marco's AP

Sanji's attacks don't quite scale to that level.
"by a BB" In referral to Blackbeard ( as in the time he vortexed S-Hawk and only S-Hawk's sword got pulled in ) or Blue Bird ( Marco's fireball )?
 
Why does there need to be evidence if it's an inherent ability of Haki? Also no one ever said there needed to be a conscious choice to grow your Haki for it to grow. In a long fight of extreme difficulty if Sanji is having trouble getting through King's Haki he will eventually grow to match him. Haki is willpower after all.
Luffy was always able to damage Katakuri, he couldn't touch him which is why he forced his Obv Haki to bloom. By the time they were actually trading hits and the Buso gap was noticeable the fight was already near the end. Luffy didn't need to evolve his Buso to beat Kat is my main point.
Evidence that it will grow to the level of King's in this fight, yes.
I was correcting your statement on Zoro's growth, although Rayleigh does state that the "Extreme use" of the specific haki is what allows it to grow; this is what Luffy needed to allow his future sight to grow to the level of Kat.

You've completely missed the point, several hours of Luffy actively using his buso to defend and attack against Kat and he was unable to grow to the point of reaching his level; even at the end of the fight his buso potency was still shown inferior. So this assumption that just because King has superior Buso that Sanji will simply grow to his level is completely unsupported.
Are you the same Emi who said King was taken out by 3 attacks from Zoro?
Ancient Zoan's have all the endurance in the world, didn't stop them from getting one-shot by vastly superior AP.
Which post?
Even a character who we know can bloom their haki to extreme levels in combat like Luffy was unable to overcome the Buso later superiority that Katakuri had despite fighting him for several hours.
 
And King does have win-cons.

Like simply using his superior strength with a sword to overpower Sanji's durability, or using an explosion to severely wound him enough to finish him off.

No win-cons my ass.
 
Can't tell if you're trolling or not
I'm not.

It's been in King's durability section since the wano revisions ended last year.

And in-story it was literally treated as a rarity when King's suit got slightly broken by Buso Zoro (which led to King going berserk).

It doesn't really change much if Sanji has enough heat to dura neg, but we don't know that for sure yet.
 
No idea how you came to that conclusion so I'm going to need to see the scaling chain you're using for Sanji's AP.
I quoted this in my previous post but i figured I'd better address this in a full post. Also, i had quite literally given a scaling chain for Sanji right above the one for King.

Base Sanji and Base King clashed so they're equals, no problems

Exo Mode gives him stronger muscles, so it scales above his base.

DJ rises his speed and thus AP, paired with Exo Mode it scales higher than the latter.

Super speed rises his speed even further and can be paired with DJ, as we saw with Hell Memories, so it scales higher.

Ifrit is a stronger version of DJ which can be paired with super speed, that's what he used to defeat Queen.

Base < Exo < Exo DJ < Super Speed DJ < Super Speed Ifrit

4 layers above his base, just like Buso Sword was 4 layers abobe King's base.
 
None of that changes that King has the Ap advantage with literally anything besides his fists, including his base with a sword.
 
And King does have win-cons.

Like simply using his superior strength with a sword to overpower Sanji's durability, or using an explosion to severely wound him enough to finish him off.

No win-cons my ass.
None of his sword attacks baring Sword Buso would be strong enough to damage Sanji, much less beyond what he can regen.

King may have 500 Dura, but Sanji has 400, neither are easily harming the other.
 
Also, I just wanna add that Egghead has just shown us that Base Exo Sanji > DJ Exo-less Sanji due to doing more to S-Shark.

Just for reference.
 
None of his sword attacks baring Sword Buso would be strong enough to damage Sanji, much less beyond what he can regen.

King may have 500 Dura, but Sanji has 400, neither are easily harming the other.
He can just do sword+buso+flames (since those seem to buff his AP, since with flames added on to buso he went from being overpowered by Buso Zoro to matching him).

With that he can batter Sanji around until Sanji is weakened, then kill him with self-destruction before he can recover.
 
Also, just to get this out of the way, Sanji's dura is:

Base Sanji ~ Hybrid Queen < HQueen 1Hand Sword < HQueen 2Hand Sword << Exoskeleton < Exo+Buso

King's dura is, as i said before, higher than this, but Sanji's dura is enough that without Buso King isn't harming him.
 
And if Base Sanji did hurt him it'd be a MASSIVE outlier because not only could his DJ kick not hurt Flame Off SeraJimbe, but SeraJimbe had his flame on and the Seraphim tanked a ton of attacks with their flame on.
 
Also, just to get this out of the way, Sanji's dura is:

Base Sanji ~ Hybrid Queen < HQueen 1Hand Sword < HQueen 2Hand Sword << Exoskeleton < Exo+Buso
Base Sanji was struggling with Hybrid Queen but he did take hits from him despite a slight inferiority, so this is fine.
King's dura is, as i said before, higher than this, but Sanji's dura is enough that without Buso King isn't harming him.
King with a sword scales to Hybrid Marco. Just the sword, no Haki.

And his Hybrid was beating up Beginning of Fight Zoro (who took hits from Big Mom) to the point where he was coughing up blood.


Also, Queen, who is aware of both Lunarian durability and the heat of DJ's flames, still said King w/ flames on was basically indestructible.

And Queen loathes King.
 
None of that changes that King has the Ap advantage with literally anything besides his fists, including his base with a sword.
Are you actually keeping up with what's being discussed? I am arguing Ifrit is equal to Buso Sword King, no one said Sanji has higher AP.
 
I quoted this in my previous post but i figured I'd better address this in a full post. Also, i had quite literally given a scaling chain for Sanji right above the one for King.

Base Sanji and Base King clashed so they're equals, no problems

Exo Mode gives him stronger muscles, so it scales above his base.

DJ rises his speed and thus AP, paired with Exo Mode it scales higher than the latter.

Super speed rises his speed even further and can be paired with DJ, as we saw with Hell Memories, so it scales higher.

Ifrit is a stronger version of DJ which can be paired with super speed, that's what he used to defeat Queen.

Base < Exo < Exo DJ < Super Speed DJ < Super Speed Ifrit

4 layers above his base, just like Buso Sword was 4 layers abobe King's base.
Thanks, however now knowing this.
The only attacks that King has that are higher than Sanji's AP values are his flame and heat-based attacks which won't burn Sanji and Sanji could easily just dodge.
would now be his best fire attacks and Magma fire, not really that concerning given those are easy to dodge.
One of the attacks that easily scales above this is his self destruction which scales so far above that it would kill Zoro despite his endurance, this isn't an attack that can easily be dodged as King baits his opponent into attacking prior. And like I mentioned in the last vs thread between them if Sanji dodging was a serious issue he could just grab him and self-destruct that way.
King may have 500 Dura, but Sanji has 400, neither are easily harming the other.
King with his flame on is not getting damaged by Sanji here although the same cannot be said for Sanji's own exo-skeleton durability considering he was still being harmed by attacks from Queen it was just his Exo-skeleton's physiology that prevented a lot of those attacks from being lethal.
Also, just to get this out of the way, Sanji's dura is:

Base Sanji ~ Hybrid Queen < HQueen 1Hand Sword < HQueen 2Hand Sword << Exoskeleton < Exo+Buso

King's dura is, as i said before, higher than this, but Sanji's dura is enough that without Buso King isn't harming him.
His Exo-Skeleton doesn't scale that far above Queen, he was still hurt from that sword attack but his body's resistance just stopped the blade from being lethal to him.
 
Are you actually keeping up with what's being discussed? I am arguing Ifrit is equal to Buso Sword King, no one said Sanji has higher AP.
Ifrit is equal in AP to Base Sword (without Haki) King, since IJ is >= Marco based on his damage to Queen.

Buso Sword King stomped Beginning-of-Fight Zoro who matched his no-sword Base.
 
King with a sword scales to Hybrid Marco. Just the sword, no Haki.

And his Hybrid was beating up Beginning of Fight Zoro (who took hits from Big Mom) to the point where he was coughing up blood.
Marco's dura sucks when he isn't using the fire barrier.

Also, no one said anything about Hybrid or Zoro so idk why are you bringing them up.
 
this isn't an attack that can easily be dodged as King baits his opponent into attacking prior
Sanji has very good Kenbun, and due to his speed, he would easily be able to dodge the explosion similarly to how Luffy dodged Caesar's Gastanet.
 
Probably, but if King baits him and grabs him he's taking it head on.
Sanji is not stupid. He also, again, has Kenbun. Sanji would be able to read King's intention and just not fall for it or avoid the explosion.

Sanji would not get grabbed either, as he can ignite himself which would make King let go due to the heat.
 
You've completely missed the point, several hours of Luffy actively using his buso to defend and attack against Kat and he was unable to grow to the point of reaching his level; even at the end of the fight his buso potency was still shown inferior. So this assumption that just because King has superior Buso that Sanji will simply grow to his level is completely unsupported.
Sanji doesn't need to get to King's 5 layers, if he goes from whichever amount he has now to the next it would already be a good upgrade for him and one thing less for King's advantage.
Ancient Zoan's have all the endurance in the world, didn't stop them from getting one-shot by vastly superior AP.
Ancient Zoans what? The only one with feats at the level Sanji has pulled is Ulti and she had to regen before keep going, King was taken out by 3 slashes abd that's it.

Also, getting one shot by superior AP is just further proof his endurance sucks, those were the first 3 attacks to do any real damage to him and he was put out of the game, even Katakuri has better Endurance than this.
 
Sanji is not stupid. He also, again, has Kenbun. Sanji would be able to read King's intention and just not fall for it or avoid the explosion.

Sanji would not get grabbed either, as he can ignite himself which would make King let go due to the heat.
King isn't letting go because of Sanji igniting him self nor is Sanji gonna think of doing that in enough time.
Zoro already explained it like it's super fast, he barely had time to use Armament after all.
 
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