King vs Sanji Rematch 2

[Eminiteable]

Sanji is not stupid. He also, again, has Kenbun. Sanji would be able to read King's intention and just not fall for it or avoid the explosion.

Sanji would not get grabbed either, as he can ignite himself which would make King let go due to the heat.

He was grabbed by both King & Queen during their fights despite his kenbun, although he uses his Kenbunshoku often he's not Katakuri who spams it every single time & he often gets caught off-guard. Besides Ifrit Jambe which I'd need to make a proper argument for none of Sanji's heat is bypassing King's heat resistance.

Sanji doesn't need to get to King's 5 layers, if he goes from whichever amount he has now to the next it would already be a good upgrade for him and one thing less for King's advantage.

He kinda does, we treat Full Body Pica as being only one layer below Zoro because Zoro's buso was greater than his; in the sense that it offered no protection against Zoro's own superior Buso. A single layer isn't changing anything.

Ancient Zoans what? The only one with feats at the level Sanji has pulled is Ulti and she had to regen before keep going, King was taken out by 3 slashes abd that's it.

Also, getting one shot by superior AP is just further proof his endurance sucks, those were the first 3 attacks to do any real damage to him and he was put out of the game, even Katakuri has better Endurance than this.

Luffy has literally some of the best endurance feats in the verse and he was taken out in one hit via superior AP, not sure you realize how irrelevant endurance becomes when you're faced with that strong of an opponent.

 

[Kachon123]

He was grabbed by both King & Queen during their fights despite his kenbun

When he got grabbed by King, he looked away, talking to Momonosuke.

When he got grabbed by Queen, his mind wasn't calm, as he was thinking about Queen having all of his siblings' abilities.

Besides Ifrit Jambe which I'd need to make a proper argument for none of Sanji's heat is bypassing King's heat resistance

Can you reword this? I don't understand what you're trying to say.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Think he means DJ wouldn't be enough to bypass King's heat resistance while Ifrit might.

 

[Eminiteable]

When he got grabbed by King, he looked away, talking to Momonosuke.

When he got grabbed by Queen, his mind wasn't calm, as he was thinking about Queen having all of his siblings' abilities.

He was looking directly at King before he talked to anyone.

I guess, could also just grab him when he inevitably goes to kick him in close range.

Can you reword this? I don't understand what you're trying to say.

As I already brought up before Sanji's heat from Diable Jambe isn't enough to bypass King's natural Lunarian Heat resistance:

Although S-Shark seemingly didn't get burned with his flame-off from a diable jambe strike which should be attributed to his Lunarian blood, so King's natural heat resistance is decently high.

 

[Kachon123]

Oh.

Enel's heat < Luffy's resistance < DJ's Heat

Enel ~ Zoro's resistance ~ King's Fire < King's Resistance.

They're comparable

 

[Kachon123]

He was looking directly at King before he talked to anyone.

No he wasn't. We see Sanji look towards Momo, giving him a thumbs up, then directly after King grabbed him. There is no Momo in this fight, so saying that King could just grab him easily as if Sanji doesn't have Kenbun and as if Sanji isn't flat out faster than King is being disingenuous.

As I already brought up before Sanji's heat from Diable Jambe isn't enough to bypass King's natural Lunarian Heat resistance:

Sanji burned S-Shark.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Sanji burned S-Shark.

No he didn't.

 

[XDragnoir]

One of the attacks that easily scales above this is his self destruction which scales so far above that it would kill Zoro despite his endurance, this isn't an attack that can easily be dodged as King baits his opponent into attacking prior. And like I mentioned in the last vs thread between them if Sanji dodging was a serious issue he could just grab him and self-destruct that way.

The Zoro that blocked that attack was still early fight Zoro with Koka, right? Also, the heat from that attack at least wouldn't be a problem to Sanji, so it's one thing less to be concerned in comparison to Zoro.

King with his flame on is not getting damaged by Sanji here although the same cannot be said for Sanji's own exo-skeleton durability considering he was still being harmed by attacks from Queen it was just his Exo-skeleton's physiology that prevented a lot of those attacks from being lethal.

King is getting harmed by Sanji's heat which surpasses his resistance to heat, we've gone through this already.

Also, Sanji was mostly harmed by Germa Queen after he got the Exoskeleton, not by Queen's normal attacks so this changes nothing.

His Exo-Skeleton doesn't scale that far above Queen, he was still hurt from that sword attack but his body's resistance just stopped the blade from being lethal to him.

He still scales above that sword regardless, it just dented him slightly and that's it, and the same will happen with King here unless he uses Buso.

 

[Kachon123]

No he didn't.

We literally see a burn on his chin from when Sanji kicked him in 1065.

 

[Eminiteable]

No he wasn't. We see Sanji look towards Momo, giving him a thumbs up, then directly after King grabbed him. There is no Momo in this fight, so saying that King could just grab him easily as if Sanji doesn't have Kenbun and as if Sanji isn't flat out faster than King is being disingenuous.

I edited the message and linked an image on that post, that didn't happen. Sanji was looking directly at King when he grabbed him.

Sanji burned S-Shark.

Usually when a character is burned at least to any relevant degree in OP there's smoke coming off and that didn't happen to S-Shark, in fact he seemingly had no lasting damage whatsoever.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

We literally see a burn on his chin from when Sanji kicked him in 1065.

 

[Kachon123]

Huh?

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Anyway that tiny ass bruise isn't damage, and it disappeared like 2 panels after.
He didn't burn him.

 

[Kachon123]

Usually when a character is burned at least to any relevant degree in OP there's smoke coming off

That's not true.

 

[Eminiteable]

That's not true.

We see the smoke coming off Zoro's body in that scan.

 

[Kachon123]

We see the smoke coming off Zoro's body in that scan.

Thats dust rising from the crash?

 

[Eminiteable]

Thats dust rising from the crash?

There's dust coming off the ground but there is a singular smoke plume rising off Zoro's body which is drawn slightly differently.

 

[Kachon123]

There's dust coming off the ground but there is a singular smoke plume rising off Zoro's body which is drawn slightly differently.

Can you circle it?

 

[Eminiteable]

Can you circle it?

Here.

 

[Kachon123]

Here.

How is that not the dust?

 

[Eminiteable]

How is that not the dust?

The effects used for smoke and dust are slightly different, smoke has a bunch of lines around the outline of the cloud, here's a recent example.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

So uh.. What's the current argument?
Y'all still debating whether or not DJ hurts King? Cause it just doesn't.

 

[XDragnoir]

He kinda does, we treat Full Body Pica as being only one layer below Zoro because Zoro's buso was greater than his; in the sense that it offered no protection against Zoro's own superior Buso. A single layer isn't changing anything.

What? Sanji's Buso can be stacked with his Exo to get even higher dura, higher AP and higher heat, he doesn't need 5 layers because he isn't getting his stats solely from his Buso to begin with.

Luffy has literally some of the best endurance feats in the verse and he was taken out in one hit via superior AP, not sure you realize how irrelevant endurance becomes when you're faced with that strong of an opponent.

You mean Luffy vs Kaido before Udon or something else? Because i don't remember Luffy being one shot in the Rooftop or at any other point.

 

[Eminiteable]

What? Sanji's Buso can be stacked with his Exo to get even higher dura, higher AP and higher heat, he doesn't need 5 layers because he isn't getting his stats solely from his Buso to begin with.

You said it was one-thing less for King's advantages but gaining one layer of buso potency won't make a difference when it comes to his durability as it gets negged due to buso inferiority which is what that Pica example was for.

You mean Luffy vs Kaido before Udon or something else? Because i don't remember Luffy being one shot in the Rooftop or at any other point.

Yeah, Act 1.

 

[Eseseso]

King has far more win-cons than Sanji, which isn't even saying much since Sanji has next to none besides IJ.

 

[XDragnoir]

You said it was one-thing less for King's advantages but gaining one layer of buso potency won't make a difference when it comes to his durability as it gets negged due to inferiority which is what that Pica example was for.

No, Haki doesn't null defense like dura neg or whatever you're trying to make it seem, Sanji has a ridiculously high dura without buso, with buso it will be higher and if his buso evolves mid fight then it will be even higher, King isn't going through it as casually as you're trying to imply because Sanji's buso own quality isn't the entire thing, it's just extra defense.

Yeah, Act 1.

Luffy was literally 6C fighting a H6A, that's why he was one shot, wtf?

 

[XDragnoir]

King has far more win-cons than Sanji, which isn't even saying much since Sanji has next to none besides IJ.

Everything in King's arsenal can either be resisted, dodged or matched, which is easy to do when Sanji has MUCH higher stamina and better endurance feats as well as regen of his own.

Also, @Eminiteable give me the scaling chain for the Zoro that blocked that explosion.

 

[Eseseso]

Everything in King's arsenal can either be resisted, dodged or matched

Not everything.

, which is easy to do when Sanji has MUCH higher stamina and better endurance feats

Nope. Emin said above why that's false.

as well as regen of his own.

King can overwhelm him and his regen by just wailing on him with superior AP.

Also, @Eminiteable give me the scaling chain for the Zoro that blocked that explosion.

What does that have to do with this?

That explosion, even with Sanji's heat resistance, still badly injures Sanji (if it doesn't still kill him) and will let King finish him off.

 

[XDragnoir]

Also, the **** is up with people claiming the self destruction would hit kill? The value to hit kill on Vs Thread is a 7.5x gap (which i remember was even going to be raised, but idk if it ever did) and in-verse one shots don't translate to vs thread one shots.

 

[Kachon123]

Nope. Emin said above why that's false.

?

King can overwhelm him and his regen by just wailing on him with superior AP.

No he can't.

 

[Eseseso]

Also, the **** is up with people claiming the self destruction would hit kill? The value to hit kill on Vs Thread is a 7.5x gap (which i remember was even going to be raised, but idk if it ever did) and in-verse one shots don't translate to vs thread one shots.

?????

It was going to one-shot Zoro, who ate a lightning attack from Big Mom's Zeus, and took hits from the Yonko off-screen.

Sanji's durability wasn't enough to prevent Queen from drawing blood just by slamming him around with Yonji's ability.

Explosion >> Zoro's durability >> Sanji's durability.

 

[XDragnoir]

Nope. Emin said above why that's false.

He didn't say anything about stamina and only ever tried to say his endurance was comparable, and guess what, it certainly isn't comparable due to his absolute lack of feats.

King can overwhelm him and his regen by just wailing on him with superior AP.

Which is not how regen works not even what would happen, first and foremost because Sanji's regen is better than King's own (High Low vs Mid Low) and 2nd because higher AP doesn't get through regen or slows it down, much less in a case where Sanji's own dura isn't any less behind King's own AP for most of his attacks.

What does that have to do with this?

I asked for it, that's it.

That explosion, even with Sanji's heat resistance, still badly injures Sanji (if it doesn't still kill him) and will let King finish him off.

Ha

 

[XDragnoir]

?????

It was going to one-shot Zoro, who ate a lightning attack from Big Mom's Zeus, and took hits from the Yonko off-screen.

Sanji's durability wasn't enough to prevent Queen from drawing blood just by slamming him around with Yonji's ability.

Explosion >> Zoro's durability >> Sanji's durability.

One shots don't translate to Vs Threads, you need a 7,5x AP gap, those are the rules.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

If he blows up before Sanji can properly defend then Sanji is going to get burnt badly and iirc you can't Regen from being burnt.

 

[Eminiteable]

No, Haki doesn't null defense like dura neg or whatever you're trying to make it seem, Sanji has a ridiculously high dura without buso, with buso it will be higher and if his buso evolves mid fight then it will be even higher, King isn't going through it as casually as you're trying to imply because Sanji's buso own quality isn't the entire thing, it's just extra defense.

It's nulls buso defense, literally what we saw with Pica vs Zoro.

Luffy was literally 6C fighting a H6A, that's why he was one shot, wtf?

In verse the difference between them clearly isn't that of a 6-C and High 6-A, Kaidou's hit wasn't enough to completely pulverize Luffy to nothing it just had him badly bleeding. My point is though that AP clearly can allow you to one-shot or three-shot a far inferior opponent which King was compared to KOH Zoro.

If you wanted a closer example with a character who has good endurance then there's Zoro incapacitating Apoo with his shishi sonson.

 

[Eseseso]

One shots don't translate to Vs Threads, you need a 7,5x AP gap, those are the rules.

Are you ******* serious?

If you one-shot someone with a power level of 300, you can one-shot someone with a power level of 200 from the same verse.

 

[XDragnoir]

Also, what the hell is this?

It was going to one-shot Zoro, who ate a lightning attack from Big Mom's Zeus, and took hits from the Yonko off-screen.

Why does any of this matter?

Sanji's durability wasn't enough to prevent Queen from drawing blood just by slamming him around with Yonji's ability.

Winch Queen scales above Queen's normal attacks and above his Exoskeleton dura, this means nothing

 

[Eseseso]

It's nulls buso defense, literally what we saw with Pica vs Zoro.

In verse the difference between them clearly isn't that of a 6-C and High 6-A, Kaidou's hit wasn't enough to completely pulverize Luffy to nothing it just had him badly bleeding. My point is though that AP clearly can allow you to one-shot or three-shot a far inferior opponent which King was compared to KOH Zoro.

If you wanted a closer example with a character who has good endurance then there's Zoro incapacitating Apoo with his shishi sonson.

Have you decided to vote yet?

Also, what the hell is this?

Why does any of this matter?

It shows Zoro is more durable than Sanji.

Winch Queen scales above Queen's normal attacks and above his Exoskeleton dura, this means nothing

And a weaker key of Zoro took hits from BM and Kaido (the latter off-screen), who scared Queen when they clashed in base with just Hao Infusion.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Winch Queen scales above Queen's normal attacks and above his Exoskeleton dura, this means nothing

That is literally the point.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Here's the facts.
Hybrid Kaidou struck a weakened Zoro with a Thunder Bagua and Zoro survived it albeit after coughing some blood up.
A healthier Zoro outright said he'd be a goner from King's explosion if he didn't defend.
Sanji doesn't scale to Hybrid Kaidou with ACoC btw.
Y'all connect the dots from there.