King vs Sanji Rematch 2

[Kachon123]

Isn't there smoke coming from his boot there

You mean impact indiction?

This is now his boosters look, not like smoke:

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Idk man they look a tad similar to me

 

[XDragnoir]

And like the rest of Germa when he's using the raid Suit he's using the boosters, Sanji's first time using the suit just to move automatically activated them.

No? That's not the case at all, there's no sign that the boosters were activated at any moment when fighting King, if they were activated then he would have moved Momo away really fast, but he didn't.

 

[Kachon123]

Idk man they look a tad similar to me

Delusion

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Takes one to know one.

For the stuff you already addressed could you quote it cause I'm not going through 4 pages.

And like the rest of Germa when he's using the raid Suit he's using the boosters, Sanji's first time using the suit just to move automatically activated them.

Btw who are you voting for?

 

[Eseseso]

Arc and Deceived never listed the reasons they think Sanji wins, so until then their votes can't be counted going by the rules.

 

[Kachon123]

Arc and Deceived never listed the reasons they think Sanji wins, so until then their votes can't be counted going by the rules.

I didn't count Decieved's as he said offsite that it was a joke vote, but Arc personally asked me to link him the arguments for both sides, which I did, then he voted accordingly.

 

[Eseseso]

I didn't count Decieved's as he said offsite that it was a joke vote, but Arc personally asked me to link him the arguments for both sides, which I did, then he voted accordingly.

Could I see him say why he voted Sanji?

Even a simple FRA would suffice.

 

[Kachon123]

Sure. I just called him over

 

[Eseseso]

Sure. I just called him over

I don't doubt he votes for Sanji, I just want to make sure we all follow the rules.

 

[Kachon123]

Of course

 

[DaMonkeMan]

I love how this has been discussed like twice before and it's still 4 pages.

 

[Eminiteable]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/king-vs-sanji-rematch-2.150667/post-5557048

.

Can't post scans right now but for the first point Queen wasn't even looking at Sanji when he was spinning him around so being taken off guard isn't evidence of him blitzing him. The second hit isn't portrayed as Queen being blitzed, just him taking a dibale jambe attack without retaliating like he did nearly everyother time; simply put taking a hit isn't the same as blitzing your opponent.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/king-vs-sanji-rematch-2.150667/post-5556092

I already discussed this with you off-site months ago that was an art error as seen by the fact prior to the clash and immediately after he had his flame on; effectively meaning he would have randomly turned his flame off at a point where it wouldn't have benefited him.

That's just not true.

It is, Sanji simply propelling himself off a roof automatically activated them; for the other vinsmokes iirc the only time an actual booster effect was shown was when they were first being introduced as a concept (Judge & Stealth Black).

 

[XDragnoir]

It is, Sanji simply propelling himself off a roof automatically activated them; for the other vinsmokes iirc the only time an actual booster effect was shown was when they were first being introduced as a concept (Judge & Stealth Black).

Bro, Sanji was literally moving in a slow pace while caring Momo and then turned back to block King's attack, he didn't activate the boosters at all.

It's not any different from the scene where he clashed with Hybrid P1 and was sent flying even tho he is stronger than P1 with the boosters, not all RS attacks have the boosters.

 

[Eminiteable]

Bro, Sanji was literally moving in a slow pace while caring Momo and then turned back to block King's attack, he didn't activate the boosters at all.

It's not any different from the scene where he clashed with Hybrid P1 and was sent flying even tho he is stronger than P1 with the boosters, not all RS attacks have the boosters.

That's true, although he was still unable to escape from King's zoan form tackle which should have been possible if he used his flotation devices & boosters (assuming they were faster than him) considering King only had him suspended on his beak via momentum as he wasn't actually grabbing onto him.

 

[Eminiteable]

Btw who are you voting for?

Not voting yet since I haven't read the rest of the thread, just giving my thoughts on some of the speed scaling points.

 

[XDragnoir]

That's true, although he was still unable to escape from King's zoan form tackle which should have been possible if he used his flotation devices & boosters (assuming they were faster than him) considering King only had him suspended on his beak via momentum as he wasn't actually grabbing onto him.

Which is just further proof that the boosters aren't always active IMO, but yeah, they should have been enough to escape from the momentum.

Not voting yet since I haven't read the rest of the thread, just giving my thoughts on some of the speed scaling points.

Yeah, their speed is equal if DJ/Ifrit aren't FTE by themselves (i have been saying the speed point is moot since the start, btw, idk why everyone is focusing on it).

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Can King resist Ifrit Jambe?
I personally think so due to him supposedly having 3 layers of Buso over Sanji.

 

[Eminiteable]

Can King resist Ifrit Jambe?
I personally think so due to him supposedly having 3 layers of Buso over Sanji.

Not for simply having higher Buso layers than Sanji since his resistance comes from having the Exo-Skelton in conjunction with haki.

Although S-Shark seemingly didn't get burned with his flame-off from a diable jambe strike which should be attributed to his Lunarian blood, so King's natural heat resistance is decently high.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Not for simply having higher Buso layers than Sanji since his resistance comes from having the Exo-Skelton in conjunction with haki.

Although S-Shark seemingly didn't get burned with his flame-off from a diable jambe strike which should be attributed to his Lunarian blood, so King's natural heat resistance is decently high.

True that.. But then again Zeus fried him.
Though iirc Zeus > DJ for injuring people like Killer and Kidd.

 

[XDragnoir]

True that.. But then again Zeus fried him.
Though iirc Zeus > DJ for injuring people like Killer and Kidd.

Killer and Kidd don't have any heat scaling, from what i can remember.

Edit: actually Kidd has some from Prometheus, ig

 

[Eminiteable]

True that.. But then again Zeus fried him.
Though iirc Zeus > DJ for injuring people like Killer and Kidd.

They would have fire resistance not electricity resistance, although based on what Zeus said it didn't work anyway.

 

[XDragnoir]

They would have fire resistance not electricity resistance, although based on what Zeus said it didn't work anyway.

Heat is heat regardless of the source, yk?

 

[DaMonkeMan]

They would have fire resistance not electricity resistance, although based on what Zeus said it didn't work anyway.

It seems that it did work just not enough to incapacitate him.. But considering he's a cyborg it makes sense electricity could do that to him.
Anyway I believe King might win this due to better Durability (duh), flight, better Haki, etc.

 

[Eminiteable]

Heat is heat regardless of the source, yk?

Having electricity pass through your body is a bit different than getting hit by a flaming kick tho.

It seems that it did work just not enough to incapacitate him.. But considering he's a cyborg it makes sense electricity could do that to him.

Their reaction to attacks aren't always accurate of damage since last chapter made it seem like Jinbe was hurt by Sanji's kick but in reality he was shown unharmed the next chapter, same thing happened with the Zeus strike.

 

[XDragnoir]

Having electricity pass through your body is a bit different than getting hit by a flaming kick tho.

It is but i thought we were discussing the heat scaling aspect of things, which is indeed the same.

But yeah electricity has this advantage of also ******* you through your internal while fire has to go layer by layer of your body.

 

[XDragnoir]

Not voting yet since I haven't read the rest of the thread, just giving my thoughts on some of the speed scaling points.

In case you haven't seen this yet, i listed all the advantages each side has, with just the speed part having changed to equal rather than an advantage for any side.

"Voting Sanji via higher heat potency as well as heat resistance, superior speed with Ifrit+Super Speed, regen, stamina, endurance, skill and better Kenbu.

In case anyone wants to hear King's advantages, it's overall higher AP (not everything is higher, even moreso if he stays in base form), higher dura, better flight and better buso."

 

[XDragnoir]

Also, it seems we all forgot, but developing Haki mid fight is possible and giving Sanji has the lesser AD/Dura but the higher endurance and stamina, he may very well pull a Luffy and fight until his haki blossoms (be it his Kenbu or his Buso, any of them would give him the edge).

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Has he ever done that in character?
Not to mention it can easily apply to King.

In case you haven't seen this yet, i listed all the advantages each side has, with just the speed part having changed to equal rather than an advantage for any side.

"Voting Sanji via higher heat potency as well as heat resistance, superior speed with Ifrit+Super Speed, regen, stamina, endurance, skill and better Kenbu.

In case anyone wants to hear King's advantages, it's overall higher AP (not everything is higher, even moreso if he stays in base form), higher dura, better flight and better buso."

I don't think Sanji has superior speed, iirc Zoro was reacting to the Emperors somewhat and got blitzed by King.
Also Ifrit and Super Speed are the same thing, as in super speed is incorporated in it.

 

[Eseseso]

AP-wise, literally anything King has outside of his base form w/o a sword is above Sanji.

 

[Eminiteable]

"Voting Sanji via higher heat potency as well as heat resistance, superior speed with Ifrit+Super Speed, regen, stamina, endurance, skill and better Kenbu.

In case anyone wants to hear King's advantages, it's overall higher AP (not everything is higher, even moreso if he stays in base form), higher dura, better flight and better buso."

There's only really a couple of things I really disagree with here, I might go in depth later on it and given an actual wincon for who I believe wins.

As for advantages not listed, King would have superior Lifting Strength which he regularly takes advantage of in fights.

Also, it seems we all forgot, but developing Haki mid fight is possible and giving Sanji has the lesser AD/Dura but the higher endurance and stamina, he may very well pull a Luffy and fight until his haki blossoms (be it his Kenbu or his Buso, any of them would give him the edge).

It's a possibility but very unlikely since we've yet to see Sanji develop or bloom his haki throughout combat like Luffy and Zoro have; for the same reasons this isn't a factor in every OP match we would first need to see feats of Sanji doing this.

 

[XDragnoir]

Has he ever done that in character?
Not to mention it can easily apply to King.

What do you mean by in character? That something that can happen with any haki user when they're under heavy pressure.

It won't apply as easily to him due to his stamina and endurance being much lower, and at their level to blossom haki took Luffy hours of a non stop fight with Kata.

I don't think Sanji has superior speed, iirc Zoro was reacting to the Emperors somewhat and got blitzed by King.

Their speed is equal, i literally said that at the start.

Also Ifrit and Super Speed are the same thing, as in super speed is incorporated in it.

They aren't and Kachon did a revision to correct that in his profile.

 

[Eseseso]

What do you mean by in character? That something that can happen with any haki user when they're under heavy pressure.

It won't apply as easily to him due to his stamina and endurance being much lower, and at their level to blossom haki took Luffy hours of a non stop fight with Kata.

Their speed is equal, i literally said that at the start.

They aren't and Kachon did a revision to correct that in his profile.

That CRT hasn't been approved yet.

 

[XDragnoir]

AP-wise, literally anything King has outside of his base form w/o a sword is above Sanji.

No?

Base King = Base Sanji < DJ ~ Exo Mode < Exo DJ < DJ+Super Speed < Ifrit+Super Speed

Base Sanji = Base King < Buso Sword King ~ Full Zoan King ~ Hybrid King < Strongest fire attacks < Magma Fire

Sanji can and does stack most of his amps, King can't even have his super dura and super speed at the same time.

 

[XDragnoir]

That CRT hasn't been approved yet.

No one has actually debunked what he said... not like it's even possible to debunk something that is clearly stated, the blue flames (Ifrit) aren't created by his super speed, that's something he can add on top of them to create a barrage of attacks like did to finish Queen.

 

[XDragnoir]

There's only really a couple of things I really disagree with here, I might go in depth later on it and given an actual wincon for who I believe wins.

As for advantages not listed, King would have superior Lifting Strength which he regularly takes advantage of in fights.

True, forgot about that one since we didn't really mention LS up to this point, but LS in this case isn't really helping him given his habit to throw those he holds flying (which isn't any different than just punching them flying).

It's a possibility but very unlikely since we've yet to see Sanji develop or bloom his haki throughout combat like Luffy and Zoro have; for the same reasons this isn't a factor in every OP match we would first need to see feats of Sanji doing this.

Are you joking? Haki blossoms aren't exclusive to Zoro and Luffy, that's a literal basic aspect of Haki as stated by Rayleigh himself, Zoro and Luffy do that all the time because they're near death all the time.

 

[Eminiteable]

Base Sanji = Base King < Buso Sword King ~ Full Zoan King ~ Hybrid King < Strongest fire attacks < Magma Fire

Would be more like this:

Base Sanji = Base King's physicals < King 1hand w/Sword < King 2hand w/Sword < Full Zoan/Hybrid King < Buso Sword King​

1. Zoro with just Koka & his mouth sword matched King's physicals
2. One Arm Sword King was able to match no haki Santoryu Zoro
3. King using his sword with both arms matched Early fight Buso Zoro equally.
4. Hybrid King overpowered Santoryu Zoro.
5. Buso Zoro later in the fight was able to repel Full Zoan King's tackle.
6. Buso King completely overpowered a later version of Buso Zoro.

True, forgot about that one since we didn't really mention LS up to this point, but LS in this case isn't really helping him given his habit to throw those he holds flying (which isn't any different than just punching them flying).

Only person he's really thrown is shinobu, otherwise he's used it to disarm opponent's and ensure attacks land.

Are you joking? Haki blossoms aren't exclusive to Zoro and Luffy, that's a literal basic aspect of Haki as stated by Rayleigh himself, Zoro and Luffy do that all the time because they're near death all the time.

Not joking, the only characters who have drastically had their haki bloom are them, like Sanji and others have all been close to death and nothing happened so assuming it will be a factor here isn't supported.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Arc and Deceived never listed the reasons they think Sanji wins, so until then their votes can't be counted going by the rules.

I explicitly stated why I think Sanji wins. Heat.

 

[Godernet]

Not joking, the only characters who have drastically had their haki bloom are them, like Sanji and others have all been close to death and nothing happened so assuming it will be a factor here isn't supported.

When has Sanji been in a 1v1 fight that really pushed him to evolve his Haki?

• FMI he was out of commission
• Punk Hazard he only had a small fight with Vergo and dipped.
• Dressrosa he got destroyed by Doffy in seconds.
• WCI he baked a cake and left.
• Wano, he beat up Page One, and he had his fight with Queen who he never had that much trouble damaging, and by the time they got into their 1v1s, Sanji had all the tools he needed to beat Queen with his new Exoskeleton.

In Zoro's fight with King he literally evolved his Haki to beat him. Why assume Sanji's wouldn't evolve if King's haki is superior and they're having a long 1v1?

 

[XDragnoir]

Would be more like this:

Base Sanji = Base King's physicals < King 1hand w/Sword < King 2hand w/Sword < Full Zoan/Hybrid King < Buso Sword King​

Going with this, the only things in his arsenal that are stronger than Ifrit+Super Speed would now be his best fire attacks and Magma fire, not really that concerning given those are easy to dodge.

But yeah, i think we all agreed from the start King had more AP, good thing he doesn't have stamina or endurance.

Only person he's really thrown is shinobu, otherwise he's used it to disarm opponent's and ensure attacks land.

I was also thinking of when he sent Zoro flying after the clash with Rengoku Onigiri and when he grabbed Sanji but used Zoan to meteor drop him

Not joking, the only characters who have drastically had their haki bloom are them, like Sanji and others have all been close to death and nothing happened so assuming it will be a factor here isn't supported.

Again, Luffy needed hours of non stop fighting to pull this up and Zoro had to go near death to pull this up, i am not saying haki blossoms are easy to pull off but they aren't exclusive to them and can be pulled here by Sanji give his stats would allow it.