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Voting King for the reasons that @KingTempest and @Kachon123 gave.
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Who do you think wins?Flame off
Yeah no Flame on Zoan King is above Zoan Kaido in durability so he's more durable than Zoan Yamato if he is in Zoan with flames on.Just wanna say this right now since people think she can freeze flames, she can't.
Yama can extinguish flames to an extent, and I wouldn't even say it's because of how cold his ice is. It's more due to his ice being nearly equal to Kaidou's Blast Breath, so when they clash they get negated due to being equal. I know it's a nitpick but I don't wanna see dumbass comments like "Yama can create ice so cold it freezes fire."
Anyway, back to the discussion. I might go with an incon, King can probably disarm Yama in a similar way that he did with Zoro's swords, and if he loses his weapon I can't really see Yama performing nearly as well due to little to no skill feats. But Yama inherently does have the AP advantage, and she can afford to take a good bit of blows without having an actual harm done to her (The damage would only get placed onto the ice rather than her actual body, it essentially acts as a pseudo form of Invulnerability.)
King is faster, is tricker and has some good levels of Adaptation.
Yama has higher AP, durability, can likely counter his Imperial Flame attacks, etc.
However unlike Zoro, Yama doesn't have the intelligence or skill to notice the flaw of King's speed enhancements which lowers his durability, and King's speed amp is crazy. He blitzed Zoro multiple times, Zoro being the same guy who has 2 forms of Analytical Prediction which has allowed him to dodge FTE shit in the past on top of having real Precognition via Kenbunshoku Haki.
So yeah, I'm voting Inconclusive, slightly leaning towards King for his speed amps and his overall tricky fighting style.
Edit: Actually King should take this for my reasons and the reasons King gave.
If kings cautious a wincon for him would just be staying in zoan form flying out of her range and bombarding her with imperial deep pride stakes and flame bullets, the latter could be defended against but would continue to pressure her and I don't think she has an answer for the attack speed of imperial deep pride stake.Who do you think wins?
Thunder Baguaand I don't think she has an answer for the attack speed of imperial deep pride stake.
How's that going to work?Thunder Bagua
How's that going to work?
He throws his head, she counters itHow's that going to work?
But his Stake attack is fasterHe throws his head, she counters it
based on?But his Stake attack is faster
If she's able to do that then sure, although in her shown fights she didn't really display herself to have the combat skill to attempt that at anytime.He throws his head, she counters it
Still DODGED it, but he simply said it was too fast to block.Zoro with 2 forms of Analytical Prediction and better Kenbunshoku Haki couldn't properly react to King's attacks.
Same Zoro couldn't react to Kaidou's Thunder Bagua, which Yamato matched in speedZoro with 2 forms of Analytical Prediction and better Kenbunshoku Haki couldn't properly react to King's attacks.
He attacks from a far range, and as a person superior in speed to Zoro it'll be easier for her to match an attack that moves in a straight lineIf she's able to do that then sure, although in her shown fights she didn't really display herself to have the combat skill to attempt that at anytime.
I'm also unsure if she would be able to react to it being launched; when he uses the technique he turns his flame off, so he'll be in his flame off zoan form which is insanely fast as it is ignoring that actual attack itself which Zoro couldn't react to.
That Zoro was weakened/badly hurt from tanking Ocean Sovereignty, and earlier when Zoro and Apoo hit Kaido together they struck before he couldSame Zoro couldn't react to Kaidou's Thunder Bagua, which Yamato matched in speed
I feel like this doesn't really count considering Zoro had multiple broken bones which'll obviously interfere with his speed.Same Zoro couldn't react to Kaidou's Thunder Bagua, which Yamato matched in speed.
Dude Zoro, along with many other characters, have still fought and reacted quite well even with broken bones.I feel like this doesn't really count considering Zoro had multiple broken bones which'll obviously interfere with his speed.
Basically think about it like this, would you expect me to be able to continue fighting normally after getting ran over by a car at full speed? The state of the body wouldn't allow him to function normally.
my ass, he deflected hybrid kaidou's attack right before that and he didn't even reactThat Zoro was weakened/badly hurt from tanking Ocean Sovereignty,
Killer*, and no. Kaidou was off guard and still managed to throw his guard up firstand earlier when Zoro and Apoo hit Kaido together they struck before he could
reactions wouldn't be affected by broken bones, and this is the same attack that blitzed law, which reacted to all of Zoro's movements, so the same still appliesI feel like this doesn't really count considering Zoro had multiple broken bones which'll obviously interfere with his speed.
Basically think about it like this, would you expect me to be able to continue fighting normally after getting ran over by a car at full speed? The state of the body wouldn't allow him to function normally.
I wouldn't say quite well. Zoro took a combined attack from Kaidou and Big Mom, had dozens of broken bones and was left panting on the ground. He was essentially taken out of the equation till he took the drugs.Dude Zoro, along with many other characters, have still fought and reacted quite well even with broken bones.
Luffy was in a puddle of his own blood after Lucci hit him with his ultimate attack. He still got up and was able to deliver a smackdown. Why can't Zoro do the same, especially when Zoro has fought with broken bones before?I wouldn't say quite well. Zoro took a combined attack from Kaidou and Big Mom, had dozens of broken bones and was left panting on the ground. He was essentially taken out of the equation till he took the drugs.
To quote Giancarlo Giuseppe Alessandro Esposito, "We are not the same." Luffy is quite literally built different and due to having a Mythical Zoan fruit his recovery rate is stupid as ****.Luffy was in a puddle of his own blood after Lucci hit him with his ultimate attack. He still got up and was able to deliver a smackdown. Why can't Zoro do the same, especially when Zoro has fought with broken bones before?
King, reaction speed is irrelevant if your movement speed isn't up to par. You can see something coming, yes, but being able to move out of the way effectively is completely different.my ass, he deflected hybrid kaidou's attack right before that and he didn't even react
Killer*, and no. Kaidou was off guard and still managed to throw his guard up first
reactions wouldn't be affected by broken bones, and this is the same attack that blitzed law, which reacted to all of Zoro's movements, so the same still applies
I get that it's a straight line attack fired from far away but even with these conditions it still blitzed Zoro's reactions and made him believe it's unblockable despite his various methods of analytical prediction/kenbun usage.He attacks from a far range, and as a person superior in speed to Zoro it'll be easier for her to match an attack that moves in a straight line
Because we need to know if Yamato is faster than him.Why are you arguing about Zoro? There are like a million actual Zoro threads to do that in.
She doesn't scale to that version of Luffy in speed, she scales to Post-Udon Gear 2nd which is faster than a base Luffy who down scales from Zoan Kaidou.Kaidou's Thunder Bagua is a whole level above King's, putting them in isolation, of course, as he can almost speedblitz Luffy, who has a much better precognition than Zoro's. Base Yamato should be faster than that, even considering how her weakened self could keep up with Gear 2nd Luffy, which is fast enough to dodge Thunder Bagua outright from a Hybrid Kaidou.
I dunno about the relation between Zoro and Luffy in the speed scaling chain, but Yamato's reaction speed can keep up with things several tiers above Base King's speed, thus his FTE self shouldn't be that much faster than Hybrid Yamato's reactions at all.
I agree with all of this but what does FTE and NPI stand for btw? Sorry if I sound stupid. Also, I wonder how King will get past her defense, she has:I dunno about that speed debate. Kaidou's Thunder Bagua is a whole level above King's, putting them in isolation, of course, as he can almost speedblitz Luffy, who has a much better precognition than Zoro's. Base Yamato should be faster than that, even considering how her weakened self could keep up with Gear 2nd Luffy, which is fast enough to dodge Thunder Bagua outright from a Hybrid Kaidou.
I dunno about the relation between Zoro and Luffy in the speed scaling chain, but Yamato's reaction speed can keep up with things several tiers above Base King's speed, thus his FTE self shouldn't be that much faster than Hybrid Yamato's reactions at all.
About the fight, Yamato can't freeze King's flames, but she can put it out with her breathing attack, which has a higher AP than King. She is also able to quite literally smack the flame away with her NPI. Plus, it's dubious if Flame-On King's inferior AP won't be parried by literally every single attack Yamato goes for, as her reactions are outright faster than Base King's speed by a very large margin.
If Yamato can connect a Hao Infused Attack to Flame-off King, she does massive damage, or even wins if she hits him in the head. King, on the other hand, would need to chip away Yamato's stamina, which is massive as she can take a beating from Kaidou even when handcuffed, and she has done so for years.
I believe it's more likely for Yamato to win this, thus, I cast my vote on her.
She doesn't scale to that version of Luffy in speed, she scales to Post-Udon Gear 2nd which is faster than a base Luffy who down scales from Zoan Kaidou.
Base Yamato scales to early Post-Udon Gear 2nd Luffy & Base Kaidou, Hybrid scales to Hybrid Kaidou.
- Post-Udon Base Luffy downscales from Zoan Kaidou and eventually grew faster to match him as an equal, his reactions downscale from Base Kaidou's thunder bagua, his gear 4th scales to Zoan Kaidou.
- Post-Enma Training Zoro can intercept Big Mom and base Kaidou, his reactions scale to attacks from Hybrid Kaidou and Big Mom's Homies, with Asura he matched Hybrid Kaidou although we don't seem to treat Asura as a speed amp.
- Post-Mink Medicine Zoro is relative to Base King (Who can tag Zoan Marco who's relative to Big Mom w/) and grew faster to the point he can keep up with Zoan King, his reactions scale to King w/ his flame off in base & Zoan forms who's FTE to Zoro's combat speed.
FTE = Faster than the EyeI agree with all of this but what does FTE and NPI stand for btw? Sorry if I sound stupid. Also, I wonder how King will get past her defense, she has:
ACoC which probably helps you defend yourself but I'm not entirely sure
Armament, forgot if it's advanced or not but it's still good enough armament.
Ice armor, arguably one of her greatest defense moves, as it completely shielded her from a Thunder Bagua, and combined with the other two defense moves she can use, plus blocking with her Kanabo, I doubt King could really get to her. King uses flames to thaw the ice armor and then attack? Smart! But she has ice breath that countered a bolo breath, so I don't think it'd be too useful. Plus she can withstand being near Kazenbo, a giant fire ball, and fight against it. Also, we don't know the level of it, but she has kenbunshoku, so that MIGHT be useful. After all she, along with the scabbards,could at least tell an admiral was coming to Wano to find Luffy ( honestly saved his ass since he would get blasted by Luffy but that isn't my point simply a funny observation ) so I imagine it's fine.
Thanks a lot.FTE = Faster than the Eye
NPI = Non-Physical Interaction
Not sure about this, Base Luffy's combat speed was able to keep up somewhat with Hybrid (at the very least he didn't struggle to follow his movements) while he barely avoided the base thunder bagua with his reactions even when he was prepared for it and reading the future. I think it would be more like this:Hybrid Kaidou's combat speed > Base Kaidou's Thunder Bagua
Hybrid Yamato's reactions ~ Hybrid Kaidou's Thunder Bagua > Base Kaidou's Thunder Bagua ≥ Base Luffy's Reaction Speed > FTE > Hybrid Kaidou's combat speed > Base Luffy's Combat speed ~ Base Kaidou's combat speed ~ Big Mom ~ Hybrid Marco