It’s another Boros > Tatsumaki crt hooray

[ZillertheBucko]

This is simple, the cover of volume 7 says this stuff (read the notes on the Imgur link) implying Boros is stronger than Tatsumaki.

The proposal is just to make Boros in his non armored keys scale above Tatsumaki, that’s it.

Updated justification goes as so:

At least Multi-Continent level (Punched harder than Saitama's initial Normal Punch,[1][2] which can easily destroy multiple of Orochi's limbs.[3][Note 1] Was considered strong by Saitama, and was impressed that Saitama could survive his attacks[2] even after he had destroyed his armor, which would make him stronger than his armor is durable. Destroyed large sections of his throne room's interior from collateral damage), possibly higher (Saitama's fight with Boros would decide the earth's fate due to him being an unprecedented enemy, which suggests he would have defeated Tatsumaki) far higher with Energy Bullets (Releases more energy from his body than his normal attacks. Turned a large portion of his spaceship to dust[1]) | At least Multi-Continent level (Combines the power of his strikes with the latent energy used for enery bullets, allowing a single hit from this state to cause as much damage as the energy bullet from his previous form. Saitama regarded him as almost being a real fight, later describing him as strong[4] and maybe even the strongest person he'd ever faced at that point[5]), possibly higher, far higher with Collapsing Star Roaring Cannon (Expends all of his latent energy into an ultimate attack. Stated that this attack would be able to ruin the surface of Earth[4][Note 2])

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Agree FRA

 

[Kin201]

Didn't you make a CRT like this before?

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Didn't you make a CRT like this before?

I’ve never used this scan in a crt, no.

 

[BadSystems]

I agree with this

 

[Damage3245]

I don't think anything on volume cover confirms that Boros has superior AP or Durability to Tatsumaki necessarily. Not enough to be used as his main justification at all. So you can currently put me down as Disagree for it.

To elaborate on what I mean; the Earth could have been destroyed by Boros' final attack even without him having to fight and defeat Tatsumaki.

 

[darkphantom9805]

Definitely agree

 

[Phoenks]

This is just a singular hype statement from a volume cover (secondary-canon that is known for often being completely inaccurate or hyperbolic) about how grand the fight is. I disagree. There isn't any direct scaling applicable here.

This statement could also easily be interpreted in other ways that don't involve him scaling above every S-Class, btw. You could say that Boros threatened the earth itself with his attacks such as CSRC. Especially considering the official translation almost seems like it's referring to CSRC VS Serious Punch.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

To add to what others have said, the statement is also, just really old. Could Boros be stronger than what we saw of Tornado back then? Sure, but that shouldn't apply to feats she performed way after that statement was made (especially since I doubt ONE or Murata had many of her Monster Association feats even conceptualized back then).

So I disagree.

 

[SuperStar]

Disagree fra

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I don't think anything on volume cover confirms that Boros has superior AP or Durability to Tatsumaki necessarily. Not enough to be used as his main justification at all. So you can currently put me down as Disagree for it.

To elaborate on what I mean; the Earth could have been destroyed by Boros' final attack even without him having to fight and defeat Tatsumaki.

If it was just “what is the earth’s fate?” Then this would be passable, however, quoting it again
“What will be the earth’s fate against this battle against an unprecedented foe?”
“What is the fate of the earth against this unprecedented battle with the enemy?”

It is referring to Boros himself as an enemy rather than just the risk of earth being destroyed by the csrc.

Which should be sufficient to say that Boros’ power would possibly have dealt with Tatsumaki. I don’t mind if it’s a solid rating or not due to the fact that this is one statement at the end of the day, but with the way the statement is said, there is a very good chance that it means that Saitama vs Boros would have decided the fate of the earth, leaving the rest of the heroes unable to defeat him if Saitama wasn’t capable.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

As a general statement from both sides since I know this is one of those topics, keep shitposting and flinging to a minimum, I’m not feeling it with this one.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

To add to what others have said, the statement is also, just really old. Could Boros be stronger than what we saw of Tornado back then? Sure, but that shouldn't apply to feats she performed way after that statement was made (especially since I doubt ONE or Murata had many of her Monster Association feats even conceptualized back then).

So I disagree.

About this, ONE recontextualizes things all the time
for example, if we go strictly by what was in the series at the time, then we couldn’t even scale Boros above Gouketsu, who was even manga only and wouldn’t have been in the webcomic plot for them to have known
even so, we know for a fact that Boros upscales from him as he has a statement to Suiryu of “I couldn’t tell if he was strong or not, he just went out in one punch”
which obviously recontextualized Boros as the only one he had called strong
It being outdated particularly doesn’t work for Boros anyways, considering ONE still brings him up a few times with the pre redraw Orochi fight, and now the existence of Boris on Blast’s team

Boros in particular was always important to Murata as well, so it’s unlikely that they’d just end up forgetting about him really for the argument of outdated to work.

So that is why I disagree with these Boros related statements being dated, because to argue that is pretty much to say “yes, Gouketsu would kick Boros’ ass”

But if we do reject it on the grounds of only using feats from that time then I guess it’s fair game to scale Geryuganshoop and the generals above Tatsumaki’s 6-C bullet stopping feat so be on the lookout for that.
Also Tatsumaki already had a statement back then of being able to move "all of creation" so I do feel as though it's rather likely that ONE already had higher end tier 6 Tats in mind too.

I updated the OP

 

[PhantomØ4]

Realistically there is no way narratively Boros in MB would loose to Tatsumaki but this is Vsbw where you have to be conservative until death so…

 

[Emerald]

This seems more like a justification for Boros’ CSRC considering it talks about Saitama going serious

 

[Golden_Void]

Disagree fra. It's vague.

 

[Deagonx]

I'm inclined towards Damage's reasoning here. This is far too specious a basis for drawing these kinds of conclusions.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

If it was just “what is the earth’s fate?” Then this would be passable, however, quoting it again
“What will be the earth’s fate against this battle against an unprecedented foe?”
“What is the fate of the earth against this unprecedented battle with the enemy?”

It is referring to Boros himself as an enemy rather than just the risk of earth being destroyed by the csrc.

Which should be sufficient to say that Boros’ power would possibly have dealt with Tatsumaki. I don’t mind if it’s a solid rating or not due to the fact that this is one statement at the end of the day, but with the way the statement is said, there is a very good chance that it means that Saitama vs Boros would have decided the fate of the earth, leaving the rest of the heroes unable to defeat him if Saitama wasn’t capable.

it’s more convincing with this context

 

[EnderLord8]

following

 

[Minos_the_Judge]

Boros > Tatsumaki

 

[Farfetchedx]

Agreed
Tbh I always thought that Boros is portrayed to be stronger than Tatsumaki

1. In the audiobooks Tatsumaki had no effect on a Saitama with hair when she tried to restrain him, while boros was sending Saitama through pillers in his released form. Even if you say Tatsumaki got stronger, we have to remember that this was Saitama with hair and the increase she gets would likely pale in comparison to the increase Saitama got from breaking his limit and going bald.
2. In the One Punch Man Encyclopedia its stated that Released Boros had "Rivaling Abilities" to a suppressed Saitama. A suppressed Saitama that Tatsumaki couldn't do a thing to.
3. Even when she tried to blast Saitama to space and nothing happened (which she was shocked it didn't work) while Boros sent Saitama to the moon in seconds.
4. Saitama saying that his fight with Boros was almost a real one, something he's never said about anyone except CFM Garou to me always implied that Boros is above everyone Saitama has faced besides CFM Garou.

Even comparing Saitama's Expression:

 

[darkphantom9805]

Also saitama went in there with a semi serious mind set because of the prophecy that they would destroy the earth and was holding back less due to boros being a monster and not a human

 

[Farfetchedx]

Yeah, also he's likely to hold back way more against the Heroes Association's #2 throwing a tantrum than the Alien that's trying to destroy Earth

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Agreed
Tbh I always thought that Boros is portrayed to be stronger than Tatsumaki

1. In the audiobooks Tatsumaki had no effect on a Saitama with hair when she tried to restrain him, while boros was sending Saitama through pillers in his released form. Even if you say Tatsumaki got stronger, we have to remember that this was Saitama with hair and the increase she gets would likely pale in comparison to the increase Saitama got from breaking his limit and going bald.
2. In the One Punch Man Encyclopedia its stated that Released Boros had "Rivaling Abilities" to a suppressed Saitama. A suppressed Saitama that Tatsumaki couldn't do a thing to.
3. Even when she tried to blast Saitama to space and nothing happened (which she was shocked it didn't work) while Boros sent Saitama to the moon in seconds.
4. Saitama saying that his fight with Boros was almost a real one, something he's never said about anyone except CFM Garou to me always implied that Boros is above everyone Saitama has faced besides CFM Garou.

Even comparing Saitama's Expression:

Those points are all for the most part true, but I don’t know how much they can help in a situation like this

 

[ImposingTiger]

I obviously agree. There is overwhelming evidence form the manga that Boros deserves this upgrade.

- Firstly, the statement coming from the volume cover does not automatically make it useless/ false. In fact, you would need to prove that the volume covers have at least once (if not systematically) been proven to be incorrect and prioritize hype over truth. When looking carefully into it, you can only find one instance where the cover of the volume can be interpreted as a hype statement, and it can easily be debunked. Vol 5 says that DSK has no rival even among the S class, but this is clearly in reference to PPP being defeated by him, which literally happens in the volume.

- The statement clearly makes a case for the Earth coming to an end not because of an accident, but because of Boros and the danger he poses to humanity as a formidable fighter.

- I'm not going to go over this because it has already been discussed without success multiple times, but in chapter 36 of the manga, Boros notes that his punch "definitely connected" and proceeds to imply Saitama has taken damage. If Saitama was indeed intact, it would be silly of Boros to imply that he has the upper edge on him based on nothing. Also, he can take damage and still be leagues above his opponent, like Cosmic Fear Garou, who made Saitama visibly bleed, but was still way below him.
This one is more of a funny detail but we can see that right after he connects his punch on Saitama, there is blood in his mouth, which wasn't there before, and we didn't see him taking any damage during that period.

- Of course we have the famous quotes of Saitama saying Boros is strong during the fight, really strong just after defeating him, saying he is one hell of a guy, probably the strongest he's ever fought to Genos (debunking the argument that he was trying to make Boros feel good about his strength). And Saitama stating to himself that Boros is almost a real fight. This is really important because he hasn't made such statement against anyone besides Cosmic Fear Garou. Instead, he mocked monster Garou several times and was visibly bored against Tatsumaki. There are many more examples for those two, but I decided to keep it simple.

- Saitama in the summer festival audiobook, while not even bald, took on Tatsumaki's full power head on, and Saitama doesn't even remember being put under such a pressure, nor does the narrator imply Saitama faced someone relative to Boros before their encounter.

- Saying ONE and Murata retconned Tatsumaki's powers after the DMT arc is a fallacy to me that can not be proven correct in any shape or form. During the arc, Tatsumaki was drawn acting casual, so the writers definitely knew she had more power in her, and they were saving her full power for another moment.

- Boros was according to ONE, still in 2016, considered to be as powerful as Garou. In 2018 he retconned that, although you could argue that scale of a fight =/= power of the characters, and we don't even know what were ONE's thoughts about what Murata said. Regardless, it goes to show you that even in the manga (we know for a fact Boros and Garou are equal in the webcomic) Boros is considered to be a god tier. Murata even called him the heavyweight champion of the universe. Boros was also a villain that Sun-Man couldn't defeat in ONE's story, so he was introduced in OPM and Saitama could ultimately defeat him.

- Boros' databook page actually puts him at planet level and has a "rivaling abilities" statement. Of course, with a casual Saitama.

- The OPM official mobile-only website (which is canon to the manga) states that Boros "forced" Saitama to use his Serious Punch.




Also, the anime (which this wiki does not consider as canon, but should have more releveance into clarifying these topics) supports the evidence:
You can find the evidence for all my claims, which are from the Vol 1 of the OPM Star Compus, here.

• The compus describes Saitama vs Boros as the battle of "The strongest vs the strongest".
• It also says "Saitama is sort of clobbered".

- As well as stating that Saitama "resorts" to his Serious Punch when Boros fires CSRC. This aligns with the previous statament.

- In Saitama's page, it distinguishes between "Normal Mode" and "Serious Mode". What I'm arguing here is that the statement proposed in the OP doesn't necessarily have to be referring to CSRC, given that serious mode is a state Saitama can access while fighting, not only while executing serious moves.

- We also have this source, which says Boros is "the strongest enemy in history".

- The official page of the OPM anime says Saitama vs Boros is a battle for the survival of humanity.




Less solid, but still plausible arguments would be:

• Geryuganshoop can be argued both in the manga (Murata's statements about Geryu vs Tats, and about Orochi's original plans vs Tats and Boros' generals) and in the anime (is literally stated to be the greatest psychic in the universe) to be stronger than Tatusmaki, which is basically a synonym for Boros scaling.
• The prophecy was actually referring to Blast, who was the only earthling, as far as we know, who was alive by that time, probably in his 20s, and strong enough to fight Boros.

With all this evidence, I believe that a "possibly" rating, if not a full rating, would be fair, as I don't think it could be denied anymore.

 

[Damage3245]

If Saitama was indeed intact, it would be silly of Boros to imply that he has the upper edge on him based on nothing.

Just because it's 'silly' doesn't mean that's not exactly the case. Boros never realized just how far out of his depth he was until the very end of the fight.

 

[darkphantom9805]

Just because it's 'silly' doesn't mean that's not exactly the case. Boros never realized just how far out of his depth he was until the very end of the fight.

it does because he says that one definitely connected and that was the first hit he’s said that about and none of his other attacks then proceedes to do an entire monologue

 

[Damage3245]

it does because he says that one definitely connected and that was the first hit he’s said that about and none of his other attacks then proceedes to do an entire monologue

Because Saitama was dodging and countering him before. But that one Boros landed on his head.

 

[darkphantom9805]

Because Saitama was dodging and countering him before. But that one Boros landed on his head.

what saitama got hit by many of his attacks bro was literally hitting him through his ship and all the way outside then says that one specific hit connected with saitama making a weird facial expression

 

[Damage3245]

what saitama got hit by many of his attacks bro was literally hitting him through his ship and all the way outside then he says that one specific hit connected which saitama making a weird facial expression

Boros did punch Boros through multiple pillars, but Saitama was dodging plenty of his other attacks. And what do you think a punch "connecting" means? It just means he hit him.

 

[darkphantom9805]

Boros did punch Boros through multiple pillars, but Saitama was dodging plenty of his other attacks. And what do you think a punch "connecting" means? It just means he hit him.

Lol what boros tagged saitama several times and never mentioned anything about it that ONE specific hit is the one he’s saying connected meaning boros is not talking about just hitting saitama or finally getting a hit on him

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Boros did punch Boros through multiple pillars, but Saitama was dodging plenty of his other attacks. And what do you think a punch "connecting" means? It just means he hit him.

Yeah…uh I’d advise ignoring DarkPhantom for the time being

If it was just “what is the earth’s fate?” Then this would be passable, however, quoting it again
“What will be the earth’s fate against this battle against an unprecedented foe?”
“What is the fate of the earth against this unprecedented battle with the enemy?”

It is referring to Boros himself as an enemy rather than just the risk of earth being destroyed by the csrc.

Which should be sufficient to say that Boros’ power would possibly have dealt with Tatsumaki. I don’t mind if it’s a solid rating or not due to the fact that this is one statement at the end of the day, but with the way the statement is said, there is a very good chance that it means that Saitama vs Boros would have decided the fate of the earth, leaving the rest of the heroes unable to defeat him if Saitama wasn’t capable.

I am still curious about your response to this part

 

[Dienomite22]

Disagree FRA. It will forever be hard to justify the use of pre-MHA databook, encyclopedia, and WoG statements regarding Saitama, Geryuganshoop, Boros and Tatsumaki due to the heavy deviations and crazy upgrades brought by the arc. Also, I thought justifications via Saitama's expression were thrown out ever since CFM vs Garou ...what happened?

 

[ImposingTiger]

Disagree FRA. It will forever be hard to justify the use of pre-MHA databook, encyclopedia, and WoG statements regarding Saitama, Geryuganshoop, Boros and Tatsumaki due to the heavy deviations and crazy upgrades brought by the arc. Also, I thought justifications via Saitama's expression were thrown out ever since CFM vs Garou ...what happened?

I always found it hard to believe that we coulnd't use facial expressions from Saitama for scaling. There's exceptions, but if you can make a solid, consistent case for two characters, then it should be allowed.

Also, I don't get how MA arc upgrades challenge the pre-existing scaling of the OPM verse, especially since you would need to prove a lot and we won't know for certain unless we ask ONE and Murata.

 

[ImposingTiger]

If it was just “what is the earth’s fate?” Then this would be passable, however, quoting it again
“What will be the earth’s fate against this battle against an unprecedented foe?”
“What is the fate of the earth against this unprecedented battle with the enemy?”

It is referring to Boros himself as an enemy rather than just the risk of earth being destroyed by the csrc.

Which should be sufficient to say that Boros’ power would possibly have dealt with Tatsumaki. I don’t mind if it’s a solid rating or not due to the fact that this is one statement at the end of the day, but with the way the statement is said, there is a very good chance that it means that Saitama vs Boros would have decided the fate of the earth, leaving the rest of the heroes unable to defeat him if Saitama wasn’t capable.

But yeah, I'm also waiting to see if someone/ something can actually debunk this, since, as I proved:

the statement coming from the volume cover does not automatically make it useless/ false. In fact, you would need to prove that the volume covers have at least once (if not systematically) been proven to be incorrect and prioritize hype over truth. When looking carefully into it, you can only find one instance where the cover of the volume can be interpreted as a hype statement, and it can easily be debunked. Vol 5 says that DSK has no rival even among the S class, but this is clearly in reference to PPP being defeated by him, which literally happens in the volume.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

All I have to bring up in regards to Saitama's facial expressions is that people often bring up "Carnage Kabuto made Saitama wide eyed he's not tier 5 bro"
and it's just....what the hell? The entire fight was Saitama being worried about his supermarket deals, we know exactly why he made those expressions, and the when Saitama fights Boros and makes these expressions we know for a fact that he's doing so in response to the fight that he's actually focused on and really does think Boros is strong when he's said it numerous times himself, so why compare it to a one time gag that had a very very obvious difference?
Anyways that's all I'll say about that because sometimes it just gets ridiculous the lengths people will go...

 

[Dienomite22]

I always found it hard to believe that we coulnd't use facial expressions from Saitama for scaling. There's exceptions, but if you can make a solid, consistent case for two characters, then it should be allowed.

Facial scaling from Saitama is completely useless since we know his true strength now and can compare what he did against "X" opponent vs what he is capable of when putting in effort.

Also, I don't get how MA arc upgrades challenge the pre-existing scaling of the OPM verse, especially since you would need to prove a lot and we won't know for certain unless we ask ONE and Murata.

MA doesn't challenge pre-existing scaling, it just challenges pre-existing WoG, Databooks, Encyclopedia's, etc. trustworthiness in regards to characters who had massive changes via the MA arc such as Tatsumaki, Saitama, and of course through scaling Boros. Hell, I'm surprised any pre-MA statements and data stuff are still being used when we've witnessed first-hand the rewrites and changes to the MA arc that we all witnessed and were told of the dramatic changes to the arc before and during it that indicate the series will follow the original plan or roadmap they had for the series. That may sound like bitching about webcomic to manga changes but I'm not even talking about that. Everyone knows the infamous monster Garou table rewrite that happened between 1 chapter among the copious redraws, rewrites, and hiatuss over the span of 5 years and the clear deviation from the webcomic which was a source that Murata used to make answers and stuff based off of. But I digress. This might've just been an excuse to rant. I honestly don't care about this verse's scaling anymore.

 

[darkphantom9805]

Facial scaling from Saitama is completely useless since we know his true strength now and can compare what he did against "X" opponent vs what he is capable of when putting in effort

It’s not useless

Here is a side by side of when Boros surprised saitama vs when cosmic garou surprised him its not a coincidence that they are almost identical

 

[Dienomite22]

It’s not useless

Here is a side by side of when Boros surprised saitama vs when cosmic garou surprised its not a coincidence that they are almost exactly the same

I'm not gonna lie, I don't want to sound like a chode but facial expression justification for Saitama will never be convincing enough for me. Ultimately it will lead to the ridiculous idea that Boros at one point during their fight literally made Saitama fight seriously just without saying it. But whatever, just count me as an agreement overall.

 

[ImposingTiger]

MA doesn't challenge pre-existing scaling, it just challenges pre-existing WoG, Databooks, Encyclopedia's, etc. trustworthiness in regards to characters who had massive changes via the MA arc such as Tatsumaki, Saitama, and of course through scaling Boros. Hell, I'm surprised any pre-MA statements and data stuff are still being used when we've witnessed first-hand the rewrites and changes to the MA arc that we all witnessed and were told of the dramatic changes to the arc before and during it that indicate the series will follow the original plan or roadmap they had for the series. That may sound like bitching about webcomic to manga changes but I'm not even talking about that. Everyone knows the infamous monster Garou table rewrite that happened between 1 chapter among the copious redraws, rewrites, and hiatuss over the span of 5 years and the clear deviation from the webcomic which was a source that Murata used to make answers and stuff based off of. But I digress. This might've just been an excuse to rant. I honestly don't care about this verse's scaling anymore.

I know you don't want to engage in this anymore but, since you responded, I should ask:

can you give me examples of what you are saying? Which WoG are being contradicted and why? How do you know the table scene was just going to end there?