It’s another Boros > Tatsumaki crt hooray

[Deagonx]

this is a misunderstanding of the argument I made
it did not revolve around the word choice of unprecedented in any way, it revolved around the fact that the sentence directly implies the fate of the earth is due to how powerful the enemy is
I noticed you did this yesterday and it bugged me, because never did I say that Boros > Tatsumaki because he is "unprecedented", that wording was never critical to my argument.

Well, to be honest, you could've made that more clear in the OP. It just links the scan and says "therefore Boros is stronger than Tatsumaki" and we are left to intuit the argument. But as Damage has explained as well, I still think the reasoning is fairly specious.

 

[Cropfist]

I disagree with this, not enough proof that base Boros is superior

 

[ImposingTiger]

I disagree with this, not enough proof that base Boros is superior

He is talking about Released and Meteoric Burst.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Even if we did,

Yes, yes we do. I don’t even wanna see this little remark from you.

"heavyweight champion of the Universe", contextually, is just about how Boros has gone around the Universe dominating planet after planet. He was without peer. He was seeking a worthy opponent, etc.

He never fought Tatsumaki or had the chance to fight Tatsumaki.

The statement is irrelevant in my eyes for trying to scale him above Tatsumaki.

Which is just one interpretation that has no reason to be more valid, which is the same thing you accuse me of doing, which is literally by definition the point of using possibly ratings. There is a pattern of this “all or nothing” attitude I’ve noticed from you where if something isn’t 100% guaranteed to be true, you will never even consider the possibility of it, which blatantly goes against the standards that are intended to be followed by users here. Additionally, there is an obvious unwillingness to consider the concept of supporting evidence, and I don’t get it. You keep insisting that the evidence is insufficient, that it’s too small because of this and that and it’s not enough, but does it ever click that you can look at more than one thing at a time? Yes, Saitama making a reaction to Boros hitting him one time is barely anything on its own, yes, maybe there are some people who think that the volume statement of the earth’s fate is insufficient on its own, and yes the “strongest in the universe” statements haven’t been enough in the past, but when you combine it all, you see that Boros is constantly called strongest in the universe, Saitama is quicker to call him strong multiple times and react to his attacks differently when he does not give anyone else’s power (besides cosmic Garou) any similar treatment, he is even more blatantly implied to be stronger with the anime’s statement of the “strongest vs the strongest”, ONE and Murata both were fully aware of the Boros vs Awakened Garou statement in the webcomic where they already scale above Tatsumaki more directly, and then the fact that the databook refers to Boros and Saitama as the two who fulfill the prophecy, further implying that Saitama was the only one who could have given Boros his good fight, even if it was wrong in that Saitama would have a good one.
I can’t stress enough that the vast majority of OPM scalers have a consensus that even released Boros is stronger than Tatsumaki, to the point where saying otherwise is rather insane. The ONLY reason that this keeps coming on exclusively on the vs battles wiki is because of the two points I brought up of an insane and unneeded degree of burden of proof, combined with the tendency to ignore all patterns in supporting evidence, which ultimately just leads to a ludicrous and rather unwelcome level of strictness on this site to where the only way to get anything done for OPM is the “magical nugget of information” rather than the basic ass practice used in debates and courtrooms of stacking together less impressive evidence to showcase. Consider this my definitive criticism of how you operate on this site.

 

[EnderLord8]

Yes, yes we do. I don’t even wanna see this little remark from you.

Which is just one interpretation that has no reason to be more valid, which is the same thing you accuse me of doing, which is literally by definition the point of using possibly ratings. There is a pattern of this “all or nothing” attitude I’ve noticed from you where if something isn’t 100% guaranteed to be true, you will never even consider the possibility of it, which blatantly goes against the standards that are intended to be followed by users here. Additionally, there is an obvious unwillingness to consider the concept of supporting evidence, and I don’t get it. You keep insisting that the evidence is insufficient, that it’s too small because of this and that and it’s not enough, but does it ever click that you can look at more than one thing at a time? Yes, Saitama making a reaction to Boros hitting him one time is barely anything on its own, yes, maybe there are some people who think that the volume statement of the earth’s fate is insufficient on its own, and yes the “strongest in the universe” statements haven’t been enough in the past, but when you combine it all, you see that Boros is constantly called strongest in the universe, Saitama is quicker to call him strong multiple times and react to his attacks differently when he does not give anyone else’s power (besides cosmic Garou) any similar treatment, he is even more blatantly implied to be stronger with the anime’s statement of the “strongest vs the strongest”, ONE and Murata both were fully aware of the Boros vs Awakened Garou statement in the webcomic where they already scale above Tatsumaki more directly, and then the fact that the databook refers to Boros and Saitama as the two who fulfill the prophecy, further implying that Saitama was the only one who could have given Boros his good fight, even if it was wrong in that Saitama would have a good one.
I can’t stress enough that the vast majority of OPM scalers have a consensus that even released Boros is stronger than Tatsumaki, to the point where saying otherwise is rather insane. The ONLY reason that this keeps coming on exclusively on the vs battles wiki is because of the two points I brought up of an insane and unneeded degree of burden of proof, combined with the tendency to ignore all patterns in supporting evidence, which ultimately just leads to a ludicrous and rather unwelcome level of strictness on this site to where the only way to get anything done for OPM is the “magical nugget of information” rather than the basic ass practice used in debates and courtrooms of stacking together less impressive evidence to showcase. Consider this my definitive criticism of how you operate on this site.

This is the most impressive and balanced speech I have seen Ziller give, I am impressed and very proud.

Ziller described exactly what I think, so maybe my vote isn't valid, but I agree with the OP, maybe every little thing alone isn't enough to scale Boros above Tatsumaki or higher, but when those little things add up become expressive enough for me.

So... Agree fra

 

[Damage3245]

I don't care. The evidence is insufficient as far as I can tell, and I have to use my own judgement, in accordance with out standards, of what has been presented when casting my own vote.

You're entitled to whatever opinion you want on Boros, but you'll need more staff input here if you want to keep arguing the point.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I mean we both know that this revision is ******, I just really had to express all that to you, wasn’t meant to convince anyone

 

[ImposingTiger]

I obviously agree. There is overwhelming evidence form the manga that Boros deserves this upgrade.

- Firstly, the statement coming from the volume cover does not automatically make it useless/ false. In fact, you would need to prove that the volume covers have at least once (if not systematically) been proven to be incorrect and prioritize hype over truth. When looking carefully into it, you can only find one instance where the cover of the volume can be interpreted as a hype statement, and it can easily be debunked. Vol 5 says that DSK has no rival even among the S class, but this is clearly in reference to PPP being defeated by him, which literally happens in the volume.

- The statement clearly makes a case for the Earth coming to an end not because of an accident, but because of Boros and the danger he poses to humanity as a formidable fighter.

- I'm not going to go over this because it has already been discussed without success multiple times, but in chapter 36 of the manga, Boros notes that his punch "definitely connected" and proceeds to imply Saitama has taken damage. If Saitama was indeed intact, it would be silly of Boros to imply that he has the upper edge on him based on nothing. Also, he can take damage and still be leagues above his opponent, like Cosmic Fear Garou, who made Saitama visibly bleed, but was still way below him.
This one is more of a funny detail but we can see that right after he connects his punch on Saitama, there is blood in his mouth, which wasn't there before, and we didn't see him taking any damage during that period.

- Of course we have the famous quotes of Saitama saying Boros is strong during the fight, really strong just after defeating him, saying he is one hell of a guy, probably the strongest he's ever fought to Genos (debunking the argument that he was trying to make Boros feel good about his strength). And Saitama stating to himself that Boros is almost a real fight. This is really important because he hasn't made such statement against anyone besides Cosmic Fear Garou. Instead, he mocked monster Garou several times and was visibly bored against Tatsumaki. There are many more examples for those two, but I decided to keep it simple.

- Saitama in the summer festival audiobook, while not even bald, took on Tatsumaki's full power head on, and Saitama doesn't even remember being put under such a pressure, nor does the narrator imply Saitama faced someone relative to Boros before their encounter.

- Saying ONE and Murata retconned Tatsumaki's powers after the DMT arc is a fallacy to me that can not be proven correct in any shape or form. During the arc, Tatsumaki was drawn acting casual, so the writers definitely knew she had more power in her, and they were saving her full power for another moment.

- Boros was according to ONE, still in 2016, considered to be as powerful as Garou. In 2018 he retconned that, although you could argue that scale of a fight =/= power of the characters, and we don't even know what were ONE's thoughts about what Murata said. Regardless, it goes to show you that even in the manga (we know for a fact Boros and Garou are equal in the webcomic) Boros is considered to be a god tier. Murata even called him the heavyweight champion of the universe. Boros was also a villain that Sun-Man couldn't defeat in ONE's story, so he was introduced in OPM and Saitama could ultimately defeat him.

- Boros' databook page actually puts him at planet level and has a "rivaling abilities" statement. Of course, with a casual Saitama.

- The OPM official mobile-only website (which is canon to the manga) states that Boros "forced" Saitama to use his Serious Punch.




Also, the anime (which this wiki does not consider as canon, but should have more releveance into clarifying these topics) supports the evidence:
You can find the evidence for all my claims, which are from the Vol 1 of the OPM Star Compus, here.

• The compus describes Saitama vs Boros as the battle of "The strongest vs the strongest".
• It also says "Saitama is sort of clobbered".

- As well as stating that Saitama "resorts" to his Serious Punch when Boros fires CSRC. This aligns with the previous statament.

- In Saitama's page, it distinguishes between "Normal Mode" and "Serious Mode". What I'm arguing here is that the statement proposed in the OP doesn't necessarily have to be referring to CSRC, given that serious mode is a state Saitama can access while fighting, not only while executing serious moves.

- We also have this source, which says Boros is "the strongest enemy in history".

- The official page of the OPM anime says Saitama vs Boros is a battle for the survival of humanity.




Less solid, but still plausible arguments would be:

• Geryuganshoop can be argued both in the manga (Murata's statements about Geryu vs Tats, and about Orochi's original plans vs Tats and Boros' generals) and in the anime (is literally stated to be the greatest psychic in the universe) to be stronger than Tatusmaki, which is basically a synonym for Boros scaling.
• The prophecy was actually referring to Blast, who was the only earthling, as far as we know, who was alive by that time, probably in his 20s, and strong enough to fight Boros.

With all this evidence, I believe that a "possibly" rating, if not a full rating, would be fair, as I don't think it could be denied anymore.

By the way, this and some more things is the evidence Ziller is talking about. I believe that more than 20 arguments and scans should at least add up to a possibly rating.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Well Boros peeps, stand down, there's no way this is passing, and it could be closed for all I care, since I think I've proven my point.
GG
and also, I ratioed Damage so it's basically a win.

 

[Damage3245]

I'll take that as a request from the OP to close the thread.