It’s another Boros > Tatsumaki crt hooray

[Recon1511]

I know you don't want to engage in this anymore but, since you responded, I should ask:

can you give me examples of what you are saying? Which WoG are being contradicted and why? How do you know the table scene was just going to end there?

A lot of Murata statements are based on stuff from the webcomic or pre-Orochi vs Saitama redraw

Mainly the one about Golden Sperm being = to Orochi, which was a question he answered on stream as he was drawing Orochi vs Saitama or something.

We now know that isn't even remotely true.

 

[Dienomite22]

I know you don't want to engage in this anymore but, since you responded, I should ask:

can you give me examples of what you are saying? Which WoG are being contradicted and why? How do you know the table scene was just going to end there?

I honestly don't care to provide examples because I know they will lead me to go on a long rant that will probably deviate from the original topic and the forum isn't a convenient enough place for me to put out the examples. I feel like I put too much effort into most of the forum posts already, I've ran out of patience with putting effort into OPM-related posts on here.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Disagree FRA

 

[ZillertheBucko]

It’s not useless

Here is a side by side of when Boros surprised saitama vs when cosmic garou surprised him its not a coincidence that they are almost identical

alright this really is starting to get way offtopic, and now more staff are voting when we've barely even discussed the one and only point of the crt

If it was just “what is the earth’s fate?” Then this would be passable, however, quoting it again
“What will be the earth’s fate against this battle against an unprecedented foe?”
“What is the fate of the earth against this unprecedented battle with the enemy?”

It is referring to Boros himself as an enemy rather than just the risk of earth being destroyed by the csrc.

Which should be sufficient to say that Boros’ power would possibly have dealt with Tatsumaki. I don’t mind if it’s a solid rating or not due to the fact that this is one statement at the end of the day, but with the way the statement is said, there is a very good chance that it means that Saitama vs Boros would have decided the fate of the earth, leaving the rest of the heroes unable to defeat him if Saitama wasn’t capable.

can someone PLEASE just respond to this already? It hasn't been acknowledged by a single soul here and it was literally the first exchange relating to the OP

 

[Damage3245]

If it was just “what is the earth’s fate?” Then this would be passable, however, quoting it again
“What will be the earth’s fate against this battle against an unprecedented foe?”
“What is the fate of the earth against this unprecedented battle with the enemy?”

In the context of the manga as a whole, Boros is an unprecedented enemy/foe for Saitama. This doesn't really change how I see the situation.

I don't think this is good for either a solid or a possibly rating.

 

[Nierre]

Damage makes sense to me.

 

[EnderLord8]

Huh, things aren't going well... If it continues like this we will have a thousand statements implying the strength of Boros and it won't be enough to scale it properly... Hmm, of course some are a lot of mental bending, but some of them should be enough to scale above Tatsumaki...

Perhaps to be able to use the scale through expressions, it would be studying each expression of each character in the manga, analyzing the context of each scene, making comparisons and from there we can judge whether the expressions can be used or not... This would be good for be able to put an end to the arguments about facial expressions.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

In the context of the manga as a whole, Boros is an unprecedented enemy/foe for Saitama.

Incorrect, what it says is that he is an unprecedented foe in general, not specifically to Saitama, and the fact is that it is in the same sentence in which it states "what is the earth's fate?"
When the statement says "What will be the earth's fate in the battle against such an unprecedented foe!?" it by default directly connects Boros being a strong enemy to the fate of the earth, meaning that most likely, because Boros is a strong enemy, the fate of the earth is in question.

And to get into the nitty gritty of it, why exactly would this be such a miniscule chance that a possibly rating wouldn't work for it to begin with? In your eyes, is the threshold for a possibly rating exactly 50/50 and anything below that is an impossibility? After all, to many people I've seen, saying that the battle decides the earth's fate is more than sufficient enough to convince them, let alone just acknowledging the qualifications of being vague but notable, even despite chances being unfavorable

Likely​

Should be used to list a statistic for a character with some basis, but inconclusive due to the justification being vague or non-definitive. The probability of the justification in question for being reliable should be favourable. This term should be used sparingly.

Possibly​

Should be used to list a statistic for a character with some basis, but inconclusive due to the justification being vague or non-definitive. The probability of the justification in question for being reliable should be notable, but mild. This term should be used sparingly.

That being said, I did suspect that this one scan alone would be difficult to push through, so here's another proposal.

I would like to hear your thoughts on the idea of just gathering a few pieces of supporting evidence and trying this thread again. With the added context of Boros' "strongest in the universe" statements, as well as Saitama's expression and the repeated times he calls him strong, as well as that time Murata called him the "heavyweight champion of the universe", I believe we could work something out better than just this one statement, and then the possibility would become notable enough perhaps.

 

[Damage3245]

Look, I've already given my vote on the proposal.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Look, I've already given my vote on the proposal.

We're barely into this thread (this is literally the equivalent to half a page now) and you're already blocking further discussion? I literally had a new proposition there, dodging it like this is wholly uncalled for. I haven't been rude or stubborn about this, and I've done what I could to keep this thread on topic, so the least you could do is hear me out.

 

[darkphantom9805]

If you refuse to discuss or debunk him then that means you automatically concede to his argument and your vote shouldn’t be valid

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Darkphantom for the love of god man I do not need you adding on to this.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

At least Multi-Continent level (Punched harder than Saitama's initial Normal Punch,[1][2] which can easily destroy multiple of Orochi's limbs.[3][Note 1] Was considered strong by Saitama, and was impressed that Saitama could survive his attacks[2] even after he had destroyed his armor, which would make him stronger than his armor is durable. Destroyed large sections of his throne room's interior from collateral damage), possibly higher (Saitama's fight with Boros would decide the earth's fate due to him being an unprecedented enemy, which suggests he would have defeated Tatsumaki) far higher with Energy Bullets (Releases more energy from his body than his normal attacks. Turned a large portion of his spaceship to dust[1]) | At least Multi-Continent level (Combines the power of his strikes with the latent energy used for enery bullets, allowing a single hit from this state to cause as much damage as the energy bullet from his previous form. Saitama regarded him as almost being a real fight, later describing him as strong[4] and maybe even the strongest person he'd ever faced at that point[5]), possibly higher, far higher with Collapsing Star Roaring Cannon (Expends all of his latent energy into an ultimate attack. Stated that this attack would be able to ruin the surface of Earth[4][Note 2])

Don't agree, because there's other reasons for this. If Boros just randomly fires a multi-continental attack at the planet, regardless of it beating Tatsumaki, it's gonna harm earth

 

[Damage3245]

We're barely into this thread (this is literally the equivalent to half a page now) and you're already blocking further discussion? I literally had a new proposition there, dodging it like this is wholly uncalled for. I haven't been rude or stubborn about this, and I've done what I could to keep this thread on topic, so the least you could do is hear me out.

I wasn't blocking any further discussion; you're just not showing me anything new here.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Boros did punch Boros through multiple pillars

real

It’s not useless

Dude could've one shot Boros any time he wanted. If Boros is truly ~ Saitama, then that would've been his good fight

 

[darkphantom9805]

Dude could've one shot Boros any time he wanted. If Boros is truly ~ Saitama, then that would've been his good fight

Sure but if boros could let’s say scratch saitama a tiny bit then saitama wouldn’t be excited saitama is looking for someone he can go full power and keep fighting he wants the thrill

Boros still surprised saitama you can’t deny on panel feats backed up by cosmic garou doing the same thing Murata didn’t do that as a coincidence lol

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I wasn't blocking any further discussion; you're just not showing me anything new here.

I brought up things that I objectively did not bring up before, and frankly, this is starting to just become a problem for no reason
the thread is still young, I've made it a point specifically not to say anything redundant every time I've responded to you, and here you are 54 messages in just blatantly refusing to even begin to interact with the new ideas I brought into the thread. I really didn't want to just come out and say you're stonewalling, which is why I've been trying to just reason this out with you and have a discussion of a very, VERY basic length, but I do have to say, unfortunately, that you are indeed stonewalling me, and this is an extremely blatant case of it. It's just extraordinarily unreasonable to be taking this approach already without any good reason, when your job as a staff member is to carefully evaluate threads, go through the arguments and counterarguments, and were chosen by your merit due to staff needing to debate in good faith and actually listen and respond to the opposition. Now call me crazy, say I'm a jackass, but I highly doubt dropping 2 tiny responses and then refusing to hear another word of it was in the job description.
In summary, stop being like this Damage.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Boros still surprised saitama you can’t deny on panel feats backed up by cosmic garou doing the same thing Murata didn’t do that as a coincidence lol

Ok, a supressed Saitama, and you can't equate the percentage of supression between each instance.

 

[darkphantom9805]

Ok, a supressed Saitama, and you can't equate the percentage of supression between each instance.

Eh I would say semi serious which would go with the part where he says this is almost a real fight

supressed casual saitama neg diff winged garou tatsumaki and orochi so you can scale

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Eh I would say semi serious which would go with the part where he says this is almost a real fight

supressed casual saitama neg dif winged garou tatsumaki and orochi so you can scale

You keep saying "semi-serious" like we can equate the degree of "trying." The idea that Boros downscales from Saitama to any extent is disproven by the fight itself, so the scaling is just bunk.

 

[darkphantom9805]

You keep saying "semi-serious" like we can equate the degree of "trying." The idea that Boros downscales from Saitama to any extent is disproven by the fight itself, so the scaling is just bunk.

Semi-serious is above casual/Supressed

Who said boros downscales from saitama what conversation are you reading?

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

NGL I concede to this topic because I saw more evidence not in the CRT, and ya'll are right, Boros fans.

Boros clearly takes normal punches way better than anyone Tatsumaki can easily claim victory to. he downscales from normal Saitama, 100%.


Tatsumaki > Boros is clearly not author's intent

 

[TaiwaneseScaler]

Boros pertains within the Inaccessible Cardinal tier.

1. Aleph-One Dominance and Transfinite Prowess: Boros, in his conceptualization as an inaccessible cardinal, asserts his dominance within the Aleph-One continuum. The paradigmatic shift from the ordinals to the cardinals is an essential tenet here, as Boros transcends the ordinality of any conceivable mathematical structure. His cardinality is situated within the echelons of the larger cardinal hierarchy, an Aleph beyond the grasp of any ordinal iteration.
2. Orthogonal Set-Theoretic Immunity: Boros' inaccessibility is rooted in his set-theoretic immunity to ordinal formations. Ordinal progressions, the very bedrock of set theory, find themselves impotent in ascending to the echelons that Boros occupies. His essence forms an orthogonal plane to the customary set-theoretic constructions, rendering him impervious to enumeration and classification within conventional mathematical frameworks.
3. Cantorian Antinomies Resolved: The inaccessible cardinality of Boros serves as a resolution to Cantorian antinomies inherent in self-referential systems. His existence operates beyond the confines of set-theoretic paradoxes, establishing a conceptual sanctuary where the conundrums of paradoxical self-reference and containment find a harmonious resolution.
4. Hyper-Axiomatic Resilience: Boros' cardinality stands as a testament to hyper-axiomatic resilience, resisting any attempt to reduce or subsume his mathematical essence within a finite or countable axiomatization. The very fabric of Boros' mathematical ontology weaves itself through axiomatic systems with a sophistication that eludes reductionism, rendering him inaccessible within the constraints of any prescribed axiomatic foundation.
5. Transcendence of Godelian Limitations: The inaccessible cardinal nature of Boros extends to a transcendence of Godelian limitations on completeness and consistency within formal mathematical systems. Boros, as an entity embodying mathematical transcendence, traverses the boundaries of incompleteness, presenting a narrative where his inaccessible cardinality becomes a cipher for mathematical completeness beyond the customary confines delineated by Godel's seminal theorems.
6. Modal Resilience and Metamathematical Singularity: Boros' inaccessible cardinality unfolds as a modal resilience, existing not merely as a mathematical abstraction but as a metaphysical singularity that transcends the metatheoretical constraints of conventional mathematics. His cardinality resonates as a metamathematical singularity, a beacon of complexity that surpasses the scope of modal logics and conventional mathematical possibility.

Yea, I couldn't agree more actually.

Such intellectual discourse. The profundity encapsulated in this teardrop-inducing proposition elicits an unequivocal concordance. this warrants preservation within the annals of forthcoming historical compendiums.

 

[Kachon123]

Damage did NOT say allat

 

[SuperStar]

1. Modal Resilience and Metamathematical Singularity: Boros' inaccessible cardinality unfolds as a modal resilience, existing not merely as a mathematical abstraction but as a metaphysical singularity that transcends the metatheoretical constraints of conventional mathematics. His cardinality resonates as a metamathematical singularity, a beacon of complexity that surpasses the scope of modal logics and conventional mathematical possibility.

Like, what is this?

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Raw as fug….

 

[Recon1511]

Boros trascended his godelian limitations

 

[Minos_the_Judge]

It’s not useless

Here is a side by side of when Boros surprised saitama vs when cosmic garou surprised him its not a coincidence that they are almost identical

You needed to cut the whole scene so people would understand the scale of HOW identical these scenes are, trying to replicate each other.

They both stand in similar poses

before showing the reader what their new form looks like.

They both gather energy before striking.

Their punch to Saitama's face, which surprised him due to its speed, is drawn almost identically, even the camera position.

Both shocked Saitama with this kick due to the speed. In both situations, the frame is drawn narrow and tall, and an exclamation point is drawn.

After one blow, both of them experienced highly detailed, city-level destruction visually.

This is a clear tribute to Boros. Boros > Tatsu and Garou Monster.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Disagree fra

 

[ImposingTiger]

Ziller's argument is yet to be disproven.

 

[Phoenks]

Ziller's argument is yet to be disproven.

Because his "argument" is just his view on the material. In other words, it's his own opinion. And it has been demonstrated many, many times, that he will not be changing his viewpoint. It is completely fair for other staff and normal members to not share the same viewpoint, because the "supporting" material is incredibly vague and leaves interpretation to the reader.

 

[Deagonx]

Because his "argument" is just his view on the material. In other words, it's his own opinion. And it has been demonstrated many, many times, that he will not be changing his viewpoint. It is completely fair for other staff and normal members to not share the same viewpoint, because the "supporting" material is incredibly vague and leaves interpretation to the reader.

+1

I don't know what "disproven" would even look like here. We just disagree on what the implication of the word "unprecedented" is with regard to our scaling.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

+1

I don't know what "disproven" would even look like here. We just disagree on what the implication of the word "unprecedented" is with regard to our scaling.

this is a misunderstanding of the argument I made
it did not revolve around the word choice of unprecedented in any way, it revolved around the fact that the sentence directly implies the fate of the earth is due to how powerful the enemy is
I noticed you did this yesterday and it bugged me, because never did I say that Boros > Tatsumaki because he is "unprecedented", that wording was never critical to my argument.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Because his "argument" is just his view on the material. In other words, it's his own opinion. And it has been demonstrated many, many times, that he will not be changing his viewpoint. It is completely fair for other staff and normal members to not share the same viewpoint, because the "supporting" material is incredibly vague and leaves interpretation to the reader.

And I have nothing to say to this except that it is exaggeration of a response; I'm not going to try convincing you anymore than I already have because I know what you've decided on this topic already since day 1.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Frankly I still believe that with the way things are going, it would be best to restart this CRT while using more supporting evidence rather than just the one scan, though as you saw earlier. Damage wants to block the discussion, so I may need the thoughts on that from another staff member.

 

[Damage3245]

Damage wants to block the discussion, so I may need the thoughts on that from another staff member.

What? I've never said that discussion can't happen here.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Wrong choice of wording perhaps, but you did repeatedly deny to comment on it.

 

[Damage3245]

You want me to comment on this?

I would like to hear your thoughts on the idea of just gathering a few pieces of supporting evidence and trying this thread again. With the added context of Boros' "strongest in the universe" statements, as well as Saitama's expression and the repeated times he calls him strong, as well as that time Murata called him the "heavyweight champion of the universe", I believe we could work something out better than just this one statement, and then the possibility would become notable enough perhaps.

What is there to say? That time Murata called him the "heavyweight champion of the Universe"? We don't use Murata's words for scaling anymore. Saitama's facial expressions? Sorry, I don't put a lot of stock into that.

The reason i didn't comment on it earlier is because none of this is new to me. I'm not seeing some magical nugget of information that will make me say "Oh yeah, Boros is totally >>> Tatsumaki."

No offense is intended with this at all, but it does appear as if you're starting with the conclusion first (that being, that we scale Boros above Tatsumaki) and you're working backwards from that, trying to find any piece of evidence you can that would support that conclusion. Obviously you may see it differently here and this is just the conclusion that you're getting from what you're reading with no bias or agenda involved, but I'm just noting the optics here of what appears to be happening.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

You want me to comment on this?



What is there to say? That time Murata called him the "heavyweight champion of the Universe"? We don't use Murata's words for scaling anymore. Saitama's facial expressions? Sorry, I don't put a lot of stock into that.

The reason i didn't comment on it earlier is because none of this is new to me. I'm not seeing some magical nugget of information that will make me say "Oh yeah, Boros is totally >>> Tatsumaki."

No offense is intended with this at all, but it does appear as if you're starting with the conclusion first (that being, that we scale Boros above Tatsumaki) and you're working backwards from that, trying to find any piece of evidence you can that would support that conclusion. Obviously you may see it differently here and this is just the conclusion that you're getting from what you're reading with no bias or agenda involved, but I'm just noting the optics here of what appears to be happening.

Damage, we literally do use Murata’s statements for possibly ratings, what in god’s name are you talking about?

 

[Damage3245]

Damage, we literally do use Murata’s statements for possibly ratings, what in god’s name are you talking about?

Even if we did, "heavyweight champion of the Universe", contextually, is just about how Boros has gone around the Universe dominating planet after planet. He was without peer. He was seeking a worthy opponent, etc.

He never fought Tatsumaki or had the chance to fight Tatsumaki.

The statement is irrelevant in my eyes for trying to scale him above Tatsumaki.