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Kid Buu being considered the strongest Buu never made any sense to me. Super Buu was the more powerful incarnation, Kid Buu was just dumber, and so he was more dangerousMand21 said:
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how high are the dbz/dbs 4-b characters after the cell saga?
- Thread starter HrishikeshM
- Start date
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The only reason Kid Buu was more dangerous was because he was not inhibited by morals or intellect. You couldn't bargain with him, you couldn't distract him, he only lived to destroy.
Even by feats Kid Buu being > Super Buu is wrong. SSJ3 Goku is stronger than Kid Buu and he outright admitted Super Buu was far stronger than either him or Vegeta.
Even by feats Kid Buu being > Super Buu is wrong. SSJ3 Goku is stronger than Kid Buu and he outright admitted Super Buu was far stronger than either him or Vegeta.
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Pretty much what Everlasting said.
Buu destroys, annihilates and doesn't hold back, doesn't play around and doesn't job things. This is shown in how he immediately tries to destroy Earth, which compared to Super Buu... despite his much better intellect, actual strategizing and far higher power, he was no less prone to wasting chances or time like waiting for Gotenks, even if he was getting impatient fast.
Buu destroys, annihilates and doesn't hold back, doesn't play around and doesn't job things. This is shown in how he immediately tries to destroy Earth, which compared to Super Buu... despite his much better intellect, actual strategizing and far higher power, he was no less prone to wasting chances or time like waiting for Gotenks, even if he was getting impatient fast.
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Oh. I see.
Well, that makes Vegito the only 3-C god tier; Can unwank him to only when SSJ3 on my headcanon, then.
Also, if you guys want estimatives on now strong they got since Super Perfect Cell, I remember it being said somewhere that DBZ characters typically get on average 10 times stronger with every year of training they do.
In 7 years of death, this means 7 orders of magnitude. 10 gigafoe with Super Saiyan 2.
That's 40 gigafoe with Super Saiyan 3.
Makes for an average of Vegito being no less than 50 gigafoe at base, possibly 100 if we allow filler in. That's Super Vegito without filler.
10~20 terafoe SSJ3 Vegito with filler. 400~800 gigafoe Vegito without filler.
However, if we suppose they trained for one more year or had stuff like zenkais give one more order of magnitude... that's actually at least 10 terafoe (more likely to be 4-B+ with SSJ2) with Super Saiyan 2. Meaning Ultimate Gohan, enraged Vegeta and Super Saiyan 3 would be low level 4-A, with Buuhan and Vegito being at higher but still somewhat low levels of 4-A.
That's my headcanon. XD It makes everyone from DBS either 4-A or 3-A/Low 2-C after their long training periods.
Well, that makes Vegito the only 3-C god tier; Can unwank him to only when SSJ3 on my headcanon, then.
Also, if you guys want estimatives on now strong they got since Super Perfect Cell, I remember it being said somewhere that DBZ characters typically get on average 10 times stronger with every year of training they do.
In 7 years of death, this means 7 orders of magnitude. 10 gigafoe with Super Saiyan 2.
That's 40 gigafoe with Super Saiyan 3.
Makes for an average of Vegito being no less than 50 gigafoe at base, possibly 100 if we allow filler in. That's Super Vegito without filler.
10~20 terafoe SSJ3 Vegito with filler. 400~800 gigafoe Vegito without filler.
However, if we suppose they trained for one more year or had stuff like zenkais give one more order of magnitude... that's actually at least 10 terafoe (more likely to be 4-B+ with SSJ2) with Super Saiyan 2. Meaning Ultimate Gohan, enraged Vegeta and Super Saiyan 3 would be low level 4-A, with Buuhan and Vegito being at higher but still somewhat low levels of 4-A.
That's my headcanon. XD It makes everyone from DBS either 4-A or 3-A/Low 2-C after their long training periods.
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"I remember it being said somewhere that DBZ characters typically get on average 10 times stronger with every year of training they do."
False. How strong they get in training is not a consistent value like that.
Also
>Super Saiyan multipliers
No. Stop.
False. How strong they get in training is not a consistent value like that.
Also
>Super Saiyan multipliers
No. Stop.
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How strong they get during training is not constant. It's plot induced.
And to address Chartate101, Piccolo always trains in his free time (AT said so).
@Huesito and Mand
50 times multiplier is accepted for ssj1 because it is consistent with the information we got from Freeza saga, and Akira Toriyama also said so in an interview.
We don't use the multipliers for ssj2 and ssj3 because they are completely unfounded and do not make sense with the scaling.
And to address Chartate101, Piccolo always trains in his free time (AT said so).
@Huesito and Mand
50 times multiplier is accepted for ssj1 because it is consistent with the information we got from Freeza saga, and Akira Toriyama also said so in an interview.
We don't use the multipliers for ssj2 and ssj3 because they are completely unfounded and do not make sense with the scaling.
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Ssj2 and it's ''x2'' boost always felt like the worst offender of them all.
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Yep, that's the worst. There is no way jumping above 4 grades of super saiyan and fodderising the lower character after each jump, is just x2. That's one of the most stupid thing I've seen come out of a DB guide.LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
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Not to mention Gohan would have ended up reduced to the level of a Super Saiyan, probably even lower than MSSJ by the fact he hadn't gotten used to Ssj2 still, when he defended Vegeta and took the attack that cut his energy to half.
Yet he wasn't fodderized against Super Perfect Cell the way MSSJ Gohan got it by Perfect Cell.
Yet he wasn't fodderized against Super Perfect Cell the way MSSJ Gohan got it by Perfect Cell.
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@AKM Android 21 and Cattleya... the wiki users have good culture, I see -u-
We should make a thread about this next.
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?What?LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
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@Mand
Absolutely not. Grade 3 is a massive loss in speed, to the level that it's impractical. I really doubt it merely brings you down to Normal SSJ1 levels of speed.
Not to mention MSSJ1 means the saiyan has extra reserves of energy he can actually fuel into his attacks while keeping their power level constant. Add to all this their base form powering up due to training...
Absolutely not. Grade 3 is a massive loss in speed, to the level that it's impractical. I really doubt it merely brings you down to Normal SSJ1 levels of speed.
Not to mention MSSJ1 means the saiyan has extra reserves of energy he can actually fuel into his attacks while keeping their power level constant. Add to all this their base form powering up due to training...
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where does rof 4-b freeza stand in all of this?
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I'm pretty sure the 4-B scale for RoF-arc first form Freeza comes from being unquantifiably superior to Tagoma, who is (arguably) superior to SSJ Gotenks.
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The day the Buu saga people are actually 4-A is the day I would have had too much to drink.
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Like it was said before, the 4-B tier is MASSIVE. Do you really believe that Goku and Buu are trillions of times stronger than Super Perfect Cell?
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even the strongest warrior of dbz- ssj1 vegito, would be only 4 megafoe (albeit lowballed), so i don't think anyone in dbz is 4-a...
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Super Perfect Cell is 44x baseline 4-B. There's simply no feats outside of the Toeiverse that would put the Buu Saga top-tiers as billions or trillions of times that.
Vegito might be absurdly powerful compared to everything else in Z, but nothing about his appearance in canon suggests he's 4-A. If the Potara fusion had remained permanent? Sure, I could imagine that Vegito could eventually train to that level, but that's headcanon.
Vegito might be absurdly powerful compared to everything else in Z, but nothing about his appearance in canon suggests he's 4-A. If the Potara fusion had remained permanent? Sure, I could imagine that Vegito could eventually train to that level, but that's headcanon.
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Yeah, it's headcanon. XD
But, like... You guys have opposed Super Saiyan multipliers else than 1 because they're too small for what they actually do, right? Fodderizing someone isn't just 2x and all. Wouldn't that make those multipliers low-ends for estimating the power of these transformations?
If SSJ3 is "at least 400 times" base Goku, Mystic Gohan is stronger and that one got later absorbed into Buu, I don't see how Super Vegito would be less than, say, 500 times stronger than Base Goku.
...though, sure, that's far from enough to get there. To get there I'd need to go full Seth The Programmer, estimate a 100 000 000 times growth throughout the arc, use his best multipliers that put SSJ3 at 8000x Base Goku to have Vegito be a trillion times stronger than Cell at Super form, making him 4-B at base. Without this sort of headcanon, it cannot be done. One can at best have him get a pretty high-end of 4-B.
But, like... You guys have opposed Super Saiyan multipliers else than 1 because they're too small for what they actually do, right? Fodderizing someone isn't just 2x and all. Wouldn't that make those multipliers low-ends for estimating the power of these transformations?
If SSJ3 is "at least 400 times" base Goku, Mystic Gohan is stronger and that one got later absorbed into Buu, I don't see how Super Vegito would be less than, say, 500 times stronger than Base Goku.
...though, sure, that's far from enough to get there. To get there I'd need to go full Seth The Programmer, estimate a 100 000 000 times growth throughout the arc, use his best multipliers that put SSJ3 at 8000x Base Goku to have Vegito be a trillion times stronger than Cell at Super form, making him 4-B at base. Without this sort of headcanon, it cannot be done. One can at best have him get a pretty high-end of 4-B.
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I'm not sure how Seth is regarded through this Wikia, but in general I just don't really like the guy.
Like, at all. I try to stay away from his stuff if at all possible.
Do have to admit he at least brings good facts most of the time.
Like, at all. I try to stay away from his stuff if at all possible.
Do have to admit he at least brings good facts most of the time.
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Because most of the time is a kind way to put it, as I generally dislike bad talking people.
But some of his arguments are honestly damn shitty. The one he gave for light speed Naruto characters, if I remember that video right, just makes me shake my head.
But some of his arguments are honestly damn shitty. The one he gave for light speed Naruto characters, if I remember that video right, just makes me shake my head.
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Is it something to do with Haku and his mirrors? Because I *hate* that arguement.
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should we make a thread for multipliers because i see many confusions between which one is legit and which is not
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Mssj has a higher multiplier than ssj grade 1,2,3.
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personally anyone severl times stronger than Cell is already Qualified 4A
Cell at 100% could wipe out a Solar System, a 2x Power difference from that is already Multi Solar system using linear scaling from magical energy instead of trying to understand a 1bil difference from 4B to 4A. if at 100% you could destroy a solar system, then at 200% you can do 2x that ie 4A, nothing hard to understand
SSj3= 4A, atleast 4x stronger than Cell
Mystic Gohan= 4A, Possibly 3C
Buudhan= 4A, Possibly 3C
SSJG Goku= 3B
SSJB Goku= 3A
SSJB + Kaoiken= L2C
the problem people think is that they need to be trillions of times stronger to go from Solar system to Multi Solar system, well using science energysurehis is Ki a efficient type energy that cannot be measure by science, when a character says heis 2x stronger it literally means overall 2x stronger,
the difference from 1 kiloton/Town to City/10megaton is more than 1000x, but the area a town takes to a city is nowhere near 1000x as much, this is where the problem lies when scaling magical energies.
character A is strong enough to erase a Town lets say he could destroy everything within 1 km, its then calculated to be lets say 100kiloton.
Charater A then gets a Power boost of 100x normally you would just say 100kiloton x100=10megaton but in reality is the attack he used on the Town he destroyedwhich was 1km x100=100km ,efficient Energy vs Non efficient
Cell at 100% could wipe out a Solar System, a 2x Power difference from that is already Multi Solar system using linear scaling from magical energy instead of trying to understand a 1bil difference from 4B to 4A. if at 100% you could destroy a solar system, then at 200% you can do 2x that ie 4A, nothing hard to understand
SSj3= 4A, atleast 4x stronger than Cell
Mystic Gohan= 4A, Possibly 3C
Buudhan= 4A, Possibly 3C
SSJG Goku= 3B
SSJB Goku= 3A
SSJB + Kaoiken= L2C
the problem people think is that they need to be trillions of times stronger to go from Solar system to Multi Solar system, well using science energysurehis is Ki a efficient type energy that cannot be measure by science, when a character says heis 2x stronger it literally means overall 2x stronger,
the difference from 1 kiloton/Town to City/10megaton is more than 1000x, but the area a town takes to a city is nowhere near 1000x as much, this is where the problem lies when scaling magical energies.
character A is strong enough to erase a Town lets say he could destroy everything within 1 km, its then calculated to be lets say 100kiloton.
Charater A then gets a Power boost of 100x normally you would just say 100kiloton x100=10megaton but in reality is the attack he used on the Town he destroyedwhich was 1km x100=100km ,efficient Energy vs Non efficient
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yea that is the problem.Huesito88 said:
Cell = 1= 4B
he would need to become trillion time stronger to go to 4A if you use this sort of method.
or he could become twice as strong and become 4A, if he could destroy a solar system at 100% then at 200% it just means 2x what he just did prior solar system x2= multi solar system
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