Another very controvsersial AP upgrade thread for Dragon Ball

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

I know, this is the same song and dance again, but I had intended for that previous thread get closed on purpose to see everyone's reactions and arguments against the suggestions for the upgrades. I think to start things off, let's get the biggest argument against the upgrade out of the way:

Because Toriyama stated in an interview that the distance between the Earth and the Moon is around 380,000 km which lines up with the distance IRL; I believe we're meant to take the Moon and the Earth in Dragon Ball as being about the size of our IRL Moon and Earth.

I take author statements with a grain a salt since what they say can contradict with what's shown in the source material/text, take for example Toriyama's Q&A on the Dragon Ball: Adventure Special, he says all sorts of offhanded comments and jokes about characters such as "Hmm… (long silence). Kuririn has a physical idiosyncrasy that allows him to breathe through his skin," "Whoa! Now that you mention it, I thought up something really cool. Who made them, I wonder? It would have to have been God, I guess," "Long ago God had a lot of [Kinto-Un], but he kept handing them out so they drastically decreased in number," "[Goku] can’t help it. Maybe it’s an ancestral throwback," and so on.

This is a similar case, he's saying the 380000 km offhandedly as in part of a joke, not to mention anyone could look up that number and say the Moon in their story is that far away, and also we much acknowledge that Toriyama doesn't do calculations, he just draws and writes for the story, why I say this is because from how Toriyama mentions Nyoibou, the 380000 km is only the distance from the surface of the Earth to the Moon, not from the Earth's center of gravity. So by using multiple panels of the Moon in the manga and the angscale formula, if we assume that the Moon is the distance of 380000 km in those panels, we end up finding out that Dragon Ball's moon is much bigger than our own, with an average diameter of 9.05707517406948E+07 m.
I also did a calculation for how large the Earth would be if the force between the Earth and moon was the same, and I found of that the Earth would be 3.7978498% of it's radius when using the average radius for the Moon, or 11.6688947% of it's radius when using the smallest radius for the Moon; and this would mean that the Earth would be orbiting the Moon and not the other way around. So if we are to keep it that the Moon orbits the Earth, it makes more sense that the Earth would be more massive too, which is why we should be using Dr. Slump's Earth here as to quote from the previous thread:

the worlds of Dr. Slump and Dragon Ball are one and the same, and that the canons of the Dr. Slump anime and manga are the as well, with the establishment that the Earth and the Solar System is much larger than our own.

I also would like to address this refute:

I am fairly sure we even had a note somewhere in our Dr. Slump profiles saying we don't take that DB uses the same Earth as them, as they contradict each other despite being firmly canon.

Unfortunately, I couldn't find a note anywhere, but if you have any examples of those contradictions, please comment them in the thread so I can see for myself

Now, I'm not going to use any power levels for here, I'm only going to refer to feats that are established within the story, and this time I feel more confident in my numbers:

Pre-Saiyan Arc:

In the blog for the Moon's size in Dragon Ball, I ended up with results that varied from Low 5-B+ to 5-A, with the average radius getting up to 2.19644916706728E+33 J or 5-B+

For Piccolo Daimao destroying 1/43th of the Earth's Surface, I arrived at a result of 166.73 Ronnatons of TNT or High 5-A

However since this is feat that's performed over time, at most a full day, I divided the end result based on the periods of time it would take for Piccolo Daimao to perform the feat.

Piccolo Daimao takes 1 Hour​

One hour equals 3600 seconds

1.66733774903237E+26/(3600) = 4.63149374731215E+22 Kilotons of TNT per second (5-A)

Piccolo Daimao takes 12 Hours​

1.66733774903237E+26/(3600*12) = 3.85957812276012E+21 Kilotons of TNT per second (5-A)

Piccolo Daimao takes 24 Hours​

1.66733774903237E+26/(3600*24) = 1.92978906138006E+21 Kilotons of TNT per second (5-B+)

Saiyan Arc:

Nappa is able to shake the Earth just by powering up, calculating the AP needed to perform the feat, I arrived at 1.25104101592434E+40 J or High 5-A+

A calc has already been made for destroying the Earth, which has been put at 2.2321527479677E+47 J or 4-B, which would apply to Vegeta

Freeza Arc:

For Planet Vegeta's destruction I'll only propose using 1.46977206217196E+50 J or 4-B since it's the most reasonable AP based on the method used

Cell Arc and Beyond:

For Cell destroying the Solar System I had arrived at multiple values for Cell's feat depending upon how big the explosion is, I will provide each below:

I when scaling based off of the force between our Sun and the Earth, I arrived at:

Dragon Ball AU = sqrt(G*M1*M2/F) = sqrt(6.6743E-11 * 1.78777972776186E+40 * 5.95087184990133E+34 / 4.35736327099347E+20) = 1.27720246092128E+22

Dragon Ball Neptune to Sun distance = 30*1.27720246092128E+22 = 3.83160738276383E+23 m

Dragon Ball Sun to Kuiper Belt distance = 50*1.27720246092128E+22 = 6.38601230460639E+23 m

Dragon Ball Oort Cloud start to Sun distance = 2000*1.27720246092128E+22 = 7.66321476552767E+26 m

Dragon Ball Oort Cloud end to Sun distance = 100000*1.27720246092128E+22 = 6.38601230460639E+28 m

Cell Destroys Solar System from Sun to Earth = 4*U*(Er/Br)^2 = 4 * 1.84150796392991E+56 * (1.27720246092128E+22/6.95042544848758E+13)^2 = 2.48731224153460E+73 J or 2.48731224153460E+05 YottaFoe (3-B)

Cell Destroys Solar System from Sun to Neptune = 4*U*(Er/Br)^2 = 4 * 1.84150796392991E+56 * (3.83160738276383E+23/6.95042544848758E+13)^2 = 2.23858101738114E+76 J or 2.23858101738114E+08 YottaFoe (3-B)

Cell Destroys Solar System from Sun to Edge of Kuiper Belt = 4*U*(Er/Br)^2 = 4 * 1.84150796392991E+56 * (6.38601230460639E+23/6.95042544848758E+13)^2 = 6.21828060383650E+76 J or 6.21828060383650E+08 YottaFoe (3-B)

Cell Destroys Solar System from Sun to Near Edge of Oort Cloud = 4*U*(Er/Br)^2 = 4 * 1.84150796392991E+56 * (7.66321476552767E+26/6.95042544848758E+13)^2 = 9.94924896613839E+79 J or 9.94924896613839E+11 YottaFoe (3-B)

Cell Destroys Solar System from Sun to Far Edge of Oort Cloud = 4*U*(Er/Br)^2 = 4 * 1.84150796392991E+56 * (6.38601230460639E+28/6.95042544848758E+13)^2 = 2.48731224153460E+83 J or 2.48731224153460E+15 YottaFoe (3-B+)

I found the habitable zone of Dragon Ball's Sun and scaled based off of the distance between the Sun and the Earth, I arrived at:

Inner Edge of Dragon Ball Sun's habitable zone = sqrt(6.95042544848758E+13^2*5772^4/373.15^4) = 1.66301873671517E+16 m

Dragon Ball AU = 1.66301873671517E+16*149597870700/166612792518.148 = 1.49318703676187E+16 m

Dragon Ball Neptune to Sun distance = 30*1.49318703676187E+16 = 4.47956111028561E+17 m

Dragon Ball Sun to Kuiper Belt distance = 50*1.49318703676187E+16 = 7.46593518380935E+17 m

Dragon Ball Inner Edge of Oort Cloud to Sun distance = 2000*1.49318703676187E+16 = 2.98637407352374E+19 m

Dragon Ball Outer Edge of Oort Cloud to Sun distance = 100000*1.49318703676187E+16 = 1.49318703676187E+21 m

Cell Destroys Solar System from Sun to Earth = 4*U*(Er/Br)^2 = 4 * 1.84150796392991E+56 * (1.49318703676187E+16/6.95042544848758E+13)^2 = 3.39968935778410E+61 J or 3.39968935778410E+05 TeraFoe (4-A)

Cell Destroys Solar System from Sun to Neptune = 4*U*(Er/Br)^2 = 4 * 1.84150796392991E+56 * (4.47956111028561E+17/6.95042544848758E+13)^2 = 3.05972042200569E+64 J or 3.05972042200569E+08 TeraFoe (4-A+)

Cell Destroys Solar System from Sun to Edge of Kuiper Belt = 4*U*(Er/Br)^2 = 4 * 1.84150796392991E+56 * (2.98637407352374E+19/6.95042544848758E+13)^2 = 8.49922339446026E+64 J or 8.49922339446026E+08 TeraFoe (4-A+)

Cell Destroys Solar System from Sun to Near Edge of Oort Cloud = 4*U*(Er/Br)^2 = 4 * 1.84150796392991E+56 * (7.66321476552767E+26/6.95042544848758E+13)^2 = 1.35987574311364E+68 J or 1.35987574311364E+12 TeraFoe (3-C+)

Cell Destroys Solar System from Sun to Far Edge of Oort Cloud = 4*U*(Er/Br)^2 = 4 * 1.84150796392991E+56 * (1.49318703676187E+21/6.95042544848758E+13)^2 = 3.39968935778410E+71 J or 3.39968935778410E+15 TeraFoe (3-B)

I will allow everyone in the thread to discuss which value should be used, but as for my own input I consider Cell Destroying the Solar System from Sun to Neptune to be the most conservative since he clearly states he's destroy the entire Solar System and not simply everything from the Sun to Earth

 

[Fezzih_007]

I know, this is the same song and dance again, but I had intended for that previous thread get closed on purpose to see everyone's reactions and arguments against the suggestions for the upgrades

I see, a person of culture aswell. I do that sometimes in RL.

 

[Damage3245]

Destroying 1 out of 43 provinces on the Earth =/= destroying 1/43rd of the Earth's surface.

 

[Huesito88]

You should've gotten a Calc member to approve of the math atleast first. Anyhow I'll follow this for the moment.

 

[Damage3245]

This is a similar case, he's saying the 380000 km offhandedly as in part of a joke, not to mention anyone could look up that number and say the Moon in their story is that far away, and also we much acknowledge that Toriyama doesn't do calculations, he just draws and writes for the story, why I say this is because from how Toriyama mentions Nyoibou, the 380000 km is only the distance from the surface of the Earth to the Moon, not from the Earth's center of gravity. So by using multiple panels of the Moon in the manga and the angscale formula, if we assume that the Moon is the distance of 380000 km in those panels, we end up finding out that Dragon Ball's moon is much bigger than our own, with an average diameter of 9.05707517406948E+07 m.

If you angsize the Moon for virtually any series, you will get stupid results.

I vehemently disagree with this method.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

If you angsize the Moon for virtually any series, you will get stupid results.

I vehemently disagree with this method.

I’m pretty sure you should close this CRT since you can’t make a rejected CRT after 3 months, so may you close this?

 

[AguilaR202]

Heavy disagree when all evidence for this is just an artistic representation of how the moon was drawn in some panels, in no way are they meant to portray it as much larger than our own., everything else iS just plain calc stacking earth being bigger doesn’t affect its distance from the sun or the size of the solar system.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I’m pretty sure you should close this CRT since you can’t make a rejected CRT after 3 months, so may you close this?

It's the same stuff, so yeah. This CRT method with Slump scaling had to be done with a Staff CRT or wait 3 months.

Like Damage said AngSizing isn't an argument and we're not scaling the series to an anime only gag scene from Dr. Slump. I'm also against this upgrade proposal.

 

[Deagonx]

I agree with Damage.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

It looks good, but we can't use Dr slump

 

[TiltedFN]

My guy, we went through this last time, why are you putting everything in one crt? This kind of upgrade would require multiple crts, and you didn't have the calcs even approved, just like that last thread. Not to mention the Dr slump stuff again.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I have doubts about this.

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

This should be closed on the spot, lmao.

 

[Quantu]

Forget doubts, we're 100% not scaling this line from Dr. Slump and applying it to Dragon Ball's cosmology, which was made clear last time so I don't know the purpose of this thread.

Not to mention the AngSizing and more "dude trust me" calcs.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

This will end up creating yet another rule, for the love of God, don't do that anymore.

 

[Monkey_Dunno]

Pretty sure this once happened when someone tried to angsize the moon to get a speed rating for Madara.

Agree with Damage. The size of the moon seen by the bare eye from earth is often exaggerated for artistic purposes. If this was to be accepted, there is going to be a boom in revisions attempting to increase the size of planets across several series.

 

[Qawsedf234]

With DDM's comment we have 4 mods that disagree with this. As such I'm closing it.