"Here's a better question... do you wanna have bad time?" - Sans Profile Rework!

[Eden_Warlock99]

I do agree that we should probably remove the fear resistance tho
Frisk's fear aura honestly isn't that potent and even those affected by it (Papyrus) can hide that fear pretty well.
We don't give everyone who fought Sukuna/Dio fear resistance lol

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I do agree that we should probably remove the fear resistance tho
Frisk's fear aura honestly isn't that potent and even those affected by it (Papyrus) can hide that fear pretty well.

Fair enough

 

[StrymULTRA]

Not really. Doggo is afraid of us but can still fight us. We also don’t have visuals of him being scared, presumably due to graphics or smth like that.

You just shot yourself in the foot there... Sans also can, everyone in Genocide can (outside Papyrus), but none visually show it.

Why remove something that is right just because it is not applied to others?

Double standards.

This works in time stop, does not work in teleportation. If he himself teleports, how can he change attacks while he’s doing this?

I mean the fact that he never makes bones spawn outta nowhere mid-attack, the phrasing makes it seem that way.

Evil people do not feel sins crawling on their back. The very phrase implies the feeling of guilt.

Mind linking a source for that. I only can find UT-related things when searching it.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

The ONLY staff that came here is Abandon, and they didn't reply to despite being online a lot of times after. They'd have replied to me if they bothered to.

Been mostly dealing with school and other stuff (midterms happening right now) so I’ve kinda just been popping into the forum for like a minute or two and then dipping most of the time.

I talked with @Maverick_Zero_X and she expressed interest in commenting here and reading my concerns. I did think about it and it's pretty foolish to let a CRT pass if I can just stop in its tracks, right?

Anyway, let's go!

Social Influencing (Part 1)

Part 1

Argument: Sans was able to trick and make Frisk spare him with just his words in the Genocide Route even when Frisk is a coldblooded murderer[1]

Debunk: Nothing says that Frisk canonically always falls for it (otherwise how would they be able to beat him), and nothing says that they did because they bought Sans' talk no jutsu. They may have simply decided to play along to see how it plays out. The same thing was done by Flowey after all, as he does mention that he purposely lost every game and did everything that was possible to do in the Underground just to see what happens. I'd also remind y'all that Flowey is also supposed to be a reflection of the Player, as he does give you a tutorial, gives hints for how to complete the Pacifist Route (and gets mad if you don't do everything exactly how he says) and claims multiple times that Chara is the only one who understands him as they're not predictable like the other characters, who are just NPCs for him. I'd remind you all that Chara is written to be also a reflection of us, due to them being our desire to grind stats (yet not being actually us at the same time) and their name is chosen by us.

I'd remind you that the main point of Undertale and why that game is so popular is due to it having nigh-infinite outcomes and alternate dialogues depending on what we do in the story, something that Flowey himself also says very explicitly when we constantly go to check him at the end of Neutral.

Part 2

Argument: Drives Papyrus' crazy with his puns, is loved by almost everyone in Snowdin[3], is able to keep his job even though he sleeps all the time[4] and drives Undyne mad.

Debunk: None of this is SI. Let's check the things one by one:

• Papyrus hating Sans' puns is completely fanon. This blog lists a great deal of evidence on why Papyrus isn't exactly mad at them, but secretely enjoys them by his own admission and him also doing that.
• The "loved by everyone in Showdin" clip doesn't say anything on it.
• Undyne was never mad at Sans if I recall correctly, though a clip showing it would help for context. Not that Undyne is exactly very competent at hiring people, as we all know that she keeps Papyrus around for pure pity despite her thinking that he's not qualified, or the Royal Guard Dogs being in that position despite them being spareable from literally just petting them few times.

Part 3

Argument: Was capable of traumatizing Flowey to the point where even the mention of anything linked to Sans leaves him angry and nervous[5]

Debunk: Every hard boss fight should have SI due to it leaving people pissed at it because of how hard it is according to this logic. No. Sans has never passively instigated fear to anyone, he's mostly seen as a lazy bum ass, only people who fight him get to know this side of him, but normally? Nah. Frisk not being scared from Sans even proves my point more.

Res. to Fear Manipulation

Argument: Seemingly unaffected by Chara's presence and merely makes jokes about it,[1] which has been shown to make victim's unnaturally scared. A good example of this being Doggo who couldn't even see them or know if there was even someone there, Frisk also did the same to Flowey even though Flowey considers himself emotionless[5]

Debunk: Ok so... why is this assumed to be a resistance?. On the page in itself we have this: "Depending on the user and medium, Fear Manipulation can occasionally be depicted as a power which can be overcome with bravery, willpower and courage". We have multiple examples of people not being truly affected from Chara's aura:

• Mad Dummy
• Monster Kid managing to overcome their fear and still try to face Frisk
• Undyne

While we don't know what's going on for the other monsters, we have showings that with bravery/rage/confidence alone, you can overcome their fear aura. Sans isn't any different from this.

Invulnerability Negation

Argument: It ignores Frisk's INV frame, which makes them immune to other attacks after being hit for a short amount of time.

Debunk: Not only it's not entirely true, as there are items that increase the INV Frames, aka the Torn Notebook (+6 INV) and the Cloudy Glasses (+9 INV). In fact, as displayed in this Reddit post, getting fully hit while having both of these equipped significantly reduces the damage from KR compared to when you lack these.

Plus, checking the Invulnerability page: "Characters with such powers may simply be unaffected by normal attacks, necessitating the use of things like Durability Negation to get through." The reason is simple, because Invulnerability isn't immunity to hax, is immunity to physical damage, there's no reason for it to shield from stuff such as Existence Erasure, Spatial Cutting, Mind Hax, etc., coz these all bypass the physical defense. I do agree that Sans has still Durability Negation due to KR killing with the same timeframe regardless of the DEF that Frisk has, but... yeah, Inv Negation seems to be added just for the sake of bloating Sans' profile and make him appear more impressive than he is.

Empathic Manipulation

Argument: When against Sans, the opponents passively feel guilt and regret as if their sins were literally crawling[1] and weighing on their backs[1]

Debunk: Being aware of your wrongs =/= feeling guilty for those. Not to mention this didn't stop Frisk from always fighting against Sans (and even reset the fight for the sake of killing him again twice). This also happened with Flowey, yet... he literally said that he doesn't learn anything from his defeats. While it's indeed true that the line of text still appears regardless if you killed Sans before, it definitely shouldn't be assumed that's guilt.

The hax should remain, but it's kinda irrelevant in a fight regardless, as it never made anyone felt guilty in-canon.

Teleportation

Argument: Capable of teleporting himself, others[3] and his attacks[1]

Debunk: While the rest is fine... where is the evidence of attacks being teleported? I don't exactly remember here.

4th Wall Breaking

Argument: Can change the battle boxes size, scretching it out[1]

Debunk: Huh, hm, ah. Nah, a lot of characters can manipulate the battle box without necessairly breaking the 4th wall (outside Flowey).

MUs that would need to be restored/removed

Now that this super wanked SI is out of the way, let's see what MUs were removed under this premise:

Spoiler: Lost MUs

Victories:

• Mister Fantastic (Marvel Comics) Mister Fantastic's Profile (Mister Fantastic was 8-C; Equipment: Standard Equipment only)
• Saitama (One-Punch Man) Saitama's Profile (Post-Training Saitama was used; Speed was equalized)
• Asgore (Undertale) Asgore’s Profile (Speed was equalized)
• Papyrus (Undertale) Papyrus' Profile

Losses:

• Ali (Ejen Ali) Ali's Profile (Pre-Data Erasure Override Mode Ali is used; Speed was equalized; Location: Judgement Hall; Starting Distance: 10 meters)
• Knuckles (Sonic the Hedgehog) Knuckles' Profile (Modern Knuckles was used and had access to Wisps; Speed was equalized; Location: Judgement Hall)
• Kris Dreemurr (Deltarune) Kris's Profile (Chapter 2 Kris was used. Speed was equalized)
• Kowalski (Madagascar) Kowalski's Profile (Speed was equalized)
• Annoying Orange (The Annoying Orange) Orange's Profile (Battle took place in an empty field. Both started 17 meters apart. Speed was equalized)

The fight with The Long Quiet should also be removed for this reason.

These seem fine just skimming through it. Agree for me. I’ll try and keep up with the thread and see how the counters progress incase my opinion changes.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

You just shot yourself in the foot there... Sans also can, everyone in Genocide can (outside Papyrus), but none visually show it.

I conceded already.

I mean the fact that he never makes bones spawn outta nowhere mid-attack, the phrasing makes it seem that way.

Normally his GBs “come” to the battlefield, but in case of Teleportation in Phase 2 they are already where they need to be.

Mind linking a source for that. I only can find UT-related things when searching it.

Just logical interpretation of what it means. Unless you have a better interpretation. Feeling sins (on your back) means you’re guilty.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Normally his GBs “come” to the battlefield, but in case of Teleportation in Phase 2 they are already where they need to be.

Tbh that wording in Shion's blog makes it seem like that he can spawn bones mid air out of nowhere while you're already dodging stuff, while it's obviously not the case.

I just wanna a better wording, that's all.

Just logical interpretation of what it means. Unless you have a better interpretation. Feeling sins (on your back) means you’re guilty.

Tbh I can interpret it as being more conscious of it, but as guilt can be a consequence of it, so can indifference or even pleasure.

Regardless I'd want to still point out that it'd be basically irrelevant in matches as it has no real feats.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

OP looks mostly good, but about the Invulnerability negation. Looking at Frisk's profile, I am not even sure if that qualifies as invulnerability.

 

[ShionAH]

Idk even know whats happening now, does this really need 7 pages damn

I will make a new thread since this thread is getting too confusing

 

[DaReaperMan]

He's only making a new thread cause it's 3 to 1 in terms of agree-disagree against him

 

[StrymULTRA]

Idk even know whats happening now, does this really need 7 pages damn

Yes, and you ain't moving from here.

Just because you have 4 staff agreeing with me it doesn't mean you'll have to run away from them.

 

[ShionAH]

Alr lil *****, I will type it here then

 

[StrymULTRA]

OP looks mostly good, but about the Invulnerability negation. Looking at Frisk's profile, I am not even sure if that qualifies as invulnerability.

I mean, Invulnerability is achieved through multiple mechanics, not just "I stand and I take no damage" like Super Sonic.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

I mean, Invulnerability is achieved through multiple mechanics, not just "I stand and I take no damage" like Super Sonic.

Phasing through attacks is definitely not what I'd consider Invulnerability tho

 

[Robo432343]

I disagree with everything via stryms arguments

 

[StrymULTRA]

Phasing through attacks is definitely not what I'd consider Invulnerability tho

I mean... didn't DT made a thread about Invulnerability being achieved through multiple mechanics too?

Regardless this will need its own thread rather than discussing it here.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Also, Shion, would you mind updating the agree and disagree tallies on the main post?

He still didn't lmfaooooooooo.

Vote Manipulation? This is reportable iirc.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Anyway made a better Sans profile. My changes compared to Shion's:

• Removed/fixed the stuff I already talked about here.
• Removed Poison Manip, as it's not literal poison, but a poison-like effect. This isn't Pokémon after all.
• Better wording to the abilities and removed useless scans to some.
• Updated his weakness stuff, as him being vulnerable in his sleep during his special attack can't be ignored.
• Removed Magic as that's redundant.
• Removed the Passive/Active split as that's redundant too.
• Restored the "limited" to Time Stop, it has no reason to be solid as the reason is the same.
• Restored/Removed the MUs I mentioned earlier.
• Removed the music stuff, as that goes to the Gallery, not quotes

 

[ShionAH]

Updated his weakness stuff, as him being vulnerable in his sleep during his special attack can't be ignored.

Literal headcanon, Chara only attacked by breaking the system. Do better

• Removed the Passive/Active split as that's redundant too.

Why tf

• Restored the "limited" to Time Stop, it has no reason to be solid as the reason is the same.

It was never limited, only likely. Sneaky sneaky

• Removed the music stuff, as that goes to the Gallery, not quotes

Wrong? many anime mcs have their theme songs

 

[ShionAH]

He still didn't lmfaooooooooo.

Vote Manipulation? This is reportable iirc.

I am in school and are preparing for an exam that literally makes up my future, I come home everyday at 9 pm have to eat for an hour do my homework and then sleep at 12. Have some decency.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I am in school and are preparing for an exam that literally makes up my future, I come home everyday at 9 pm have to eat for an hour do my homework and then sleep at 12. Have some decency.

Then tell this thread to temporarily go **** itself and expect the dipshits to have the honor to not **** around and apply it before you can properly respond.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Literal headcanon, Chara only attacked by breaking the system. Do better

Where is it said that they broke the system? It's not even accepted that they have some law hax or stuff like that. Under the regular assumption, it's Sans' weakness as Frisk could move to the FIGHT button only after Sans gor asleep, why wouldn't non-UT people be able to do this as well?

It was never limited, only likely. Sneaky sneaky

It's "likely" on his profile.

Wrong? many anime mcs have their theme songs

Well I still dislike that. Other UT profiles don't after all.

I am in school and are preparing for an exam that literally makes up my future, I come home everyday at 9 pm have to eat for an hour do my homework and then sleep at 12. Have some decency.

The just tell that lmaoz.

 

[Deidalius]

I talked with @Maverick_Zero_X and she expressed interest in commenting here and reading my concerns. I did think about it and it's pretty foolish to let a CRT pass if I can just stop in its tracks, right?

Anyway, let's go!

Social Influencing (Part 1)

Part 1

Argument: Sans was able to trick and make Frisk spare him with just his words in the Genocide Route even when Frisk is a coldblooded murderer[1]

Debunk: Nothing says that Frisk canonically always falls for it (otherwise how would they be able to beat him), and nothing says that they did because they bought Sans' talk no jutsu. They may have simply decided to play along to see how it plays out. The same thing was done by Flowey after all, as he does mention that he purposely lost every game and did everything that was possible to do in the Underground just to see what happens. I'd also remind y'all that Flowey is also supposed to be a reflection of the Player, as he does give you a tutorial, gives hints for how to complete the Pacifist Route (and gets mad if you don't do everything exactly how he says) and claims multiple times that Chara is the only one who understands him as they're not predictable like the other characters, who are just NPCs for him. I'd remind you all that Chara is written to be also a reflection of us, due to them being our desire to grind stats (yet not being actually us at the same time) and their name is chosen by us.

I'd remind you that the main point of Undertale and why that game is so popular is due to it having nigh-infinite outcomes and alternate dialogues depending on what we do in the story, something that Flowey himself also says very explicitly when we constantly go to check him at the end of Neutral.

Part 2

Argument: Drives Papyrus' crazy with his puns, is loved by almost everyone in Snowdin[3], is able to keep his job even though he sleeps all the time[4] and drives Undyne mad.

Debunk: None of this is SI. Let's check the things one by one:

• Papyrus hating Sans' puns is completely fanon. This blog lists a great deal of evidence on why Papyrus isn't exactly mad at them, but secretely enjoys them by his own admission and him also doing that.
• The "loved by everyone in Showdin" clip doesn't say anything on it.
• Undyne was never mad at Sans if I recall correctly, though a clip showing it would help for context. Not that Undyne is exactly very competent at hiring people, as we all know that she keeps Papyrus around for pure pity despite her thinking that he's not qualified, or the Royal Guard Dogs being in that position despite them being spareable from literally just petting them few times.

Part 3

Argument: Was capable of traumatizing Flowey to the point where even the mention of anything linked to Sans leaves him angry and nervous[5]

Debunk: Every hard boss fight should have SI due to it leaving people pissed at it because of how hard it is according to this logic. No. Sans has never passively instigated fear to anyone, he's mostly seen as a lazy bum ass, only people who fight him get to know this side of him, but normally? Nah. Frisk not being scared from Sans even proves my point more.

Res. to Fear Manipulation

Argument: Seemingly unaffected by Chara's presence and merely makes jokes about it,[1] which has been shown to make victim's unnaturally scared. A good example of this being Doggo who couldn't even see them or know if there was even someone there, Frisk also did the same to Flowey even though Flowey considers himself emotionless[5]

Debunk: Ok so... why is this assumed to be a resistance?. On the page in itself we have this: "Depending on the user and medium, Fear Manipulation can occasionally be depicted as a power which can be overcome with bravery, willpower and courage". We have multiple examples of people not being truly affected from Chara's aura:

• Mad Dummy
• Monster Kid managing to overcome their fear and still try to face Frisk
• Undyne

While we don't know what's going on for the other monsters, we have showings that with bravery/rage/confidence alone, you can overcome their fear aura. Sans isn't any different from this.

Invulnerability Negation

Argument: It ignores Frisk's INV frame, which makes them immune to other attacks after being hit for a short amount of time.

Debunk: Not only it's not entirely true, as there are items that increase the INV Frames, aka the Torn Notebook (+6 INV) and the Cloudy Glasses (+9 INV). In fact, as displayed in this Reddit post, getting fully hit while having both of these equipped significantly reduces the damage from KR compared to when you lack these.

Plus, checking the Invulnerability page: "Characters with such powers may simply be unaffected by normal attacks, necessitating the use of things like Durability Negation to get through." The reason is simple, because Invulnerability isn't immunity to hax, is immunity to physical damage, there's no reason for it to shield from stuff such as Existence Erasure, Spatial Cutting, Mind Hax, etc., coz these all bypass the physical defense. I do agree that Sans has still Durability Negation due to KR killing with the same timeframe regardless of the DEF that Frisk has, but... yeah, Inv Negation seems to be added just for the sake of bloating Sans' profile and make him appear more impressive than he is.

Empathic Manipulation

Argument: When against Sans, the opponents passively feel guilt and regret as if their sins were literally crawling[1] and weighing on their backs[1]

Debunk: Being aware of your wrongs =/= feeling guilty for those. Not to mention this didn't stop Frisk from always fighting against Sans (and even reset the fight for the sake of killing him again twice). This also happened with Flowey, yet... he literally said that he doesn't learn anything from his defeats. While it's indeed true that the line of text still appears regardless if you killed Sans before, it definitely shouldn't be assumed that's guilt.

The hax should remain, but it's kinda irrelevant in a fight regardless, as it never made anyone felt guilty in-canon.

Teleportation

Argument: Capable of teleporting himself, others[3] and his attacks[1]

Debunk: While the rest is fine... where is the evidence of attacks being teleported? I don't exactly remember here.

4th Wall Breaking

Argument: Can change the battle boxes size, scretching it out[1]

Debunk: Huh, hm, ah. Nah, a lot of characters can manipulate the battle box without necessairly breaking the 4th wall (outside Flowey).

MUs that would need to be restored/removed

Now that this super wanked SI is out of the way, let's see what MUs were removed under this premise:

Spoiler: Lost MUs

Victories:

• Mister Fantastic (Marvel Comics) Mister Fantastic's Profile (Mister Fantastic was 8-C; Equipment: Standard Equipment only)
• Saitama (One-Punch Man) Saitama's Profile (Post-Training Saitama was used; Speed was equalized)
• Asgore (Undertale) Asgore’s Profile (Speed was equalized)
• Papyrus (Undertale) Papyrus' Profile

Losses:

• Ali (Ejen Ali) Ali's Profile (Pre-Data Erasure Override Mode Ali is used; Speed was equalized; Location: Judgement Hall; Starting Distance: 10 meters)
• Knuckles (Sonic the Hedgehog) Knuckles' Profile (Modern Knuckles was used and had access to Wisps; Speed was equalized; Location: Judgement Hall)
• Kris Dreemurr (Deltarune) Kris's Profile (Chapter 2 Kris was used. Speed was equalized)
• Kowalski (Madagascar) Kowalski's Profile (Speed was equalized)
• Annoying Orange (The Annoying Orange) Orange's Profile (Battle took place in an empty field. Both started 17 meters apart. Speed was equalized)

The fight with The Long Quiet should also be removed for this reason.

I agree with Strym's points.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Oh right, I forgot to mention I have also removed some other things from his 4th wall break:

• skipping his own dialogue: This is something every other monster in the game does when fought again, like Undyne, Asgore, so this has to go.
• attacking first: This is something that technically other characters do, like Flowey, Asgore when he breaks 1st the mercy button, or Flowey, so it's not something really exclusive to Sans either. Don't think this should count as anything, really.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Well I still dislike that. Other UT profiles don't after all.

Nah, it looks fine.

 

[Comiphorous]

Oh right, I forgot to mention I have also removed some other things from his 4th wall break:

• skipping his own dialogue: This is something every other monster in the game does when fought again, like Undyne, Asgore, so this has to go.
• attacking first: This is something that technically other characters do, like Flowey, Asgore when he breaks 1st the mercy button, or Flowey, so it's not something really exclusive to Sans either. Don't think this should count as anything, really.

I feel like just because a few other characters have done it doesn't mean sans is exempt of getting an ability from it. it's definitely not the status quo in undertale for the enemy to attack first, and should instead apply to him, plus those few other monsters who can do it.

i also disagree with removing things based off the fact it's not on other profiles. for whatever reason only like 4 pages in total are actually up to date and regularly quality checked, one of those being sans. if anything the fact it's not present on other pages should tell you guys to update the other pages to be up to par with sans'.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I feel like just because a few other characters have done it doesn't mean sans is exempt of getting an ability from it. it's definitely not the status quo in undertale for the enemy to attack first, and should instead apply to him, plus those few other monsters who can do it.

None of that is related to 4th wall breaking, meaning it's unquantifable in a crossover fight, that's all.

the only one being sans

I mean the fact that only Sans gets the cool and shiny profile while the rest lies in the dirt lol.

should tell you guys to update the other pages to be up to par with sans'.

Tell that to Shion, not me. I am 100000% positive that after this he'll abandon the rest. I instead want to update all at once.

 

[Comiphorous]

None of that is related to 4th wall breaking, meaning it's unquantifable in a crossover fight, that's all.

Idk what ability it'd go to. just saying using the excuse that other characters can do it doesn't make sense.

I mean the fact that only Sans gets the cool and shiny profile while the rest lies in the dirt lol.

theres something i find vaguely humorous about the one and only really lazy guy having the best profile.

Tell that to Shion, not me. I am 100000% positive that after this he'll abandon the rest. I instead want to update all at once.

I'll update my goat asgore's profile one day.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Idk what ability it'd go to. just saying using the excuse that other characters can do it doesn't make sense.

Either you say what ability is, or just agree it's not quantifiable and axe it. You can't make stuff so that Sans' profile gets inflated to make him appear more impressive than he his.

I'll update my goat asgore's profile one day.

Tbh Papyrus also 100% needs a revamp too. Sans being the only one getting this is hypocritical as I said.

 

[LightSoul8]

He still didn't lmfaooooooooo.

Vote Manipulation? This is reportable iirc.

For future reference, how is this vote manipulation?

I am in school and are preparing for an exam that literally makes up my future, I come home everyday at 9 pm have to eat for an hour do my homework and then sleep at 12. Have some decency.

Completely understandable, take all the time you need.

 

[StrymULTRA]

For future reference, how is this vote manipulation?

The fact it was crossed already implies it's a joke and not a serious statement. Just found it funny as he still didn't count the votes despite multiple staff appearing lulz.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Anyway, I disagree with the added sans weakness. It's not his sleeping that lets Frisk attack him, it's them moving the Battle Box to the FIGHT button. That's why Sans always teleports Frisk back to the center when they try to reach the edge while he's awake.

Problem is, we don’t consider the Battle Box or any of the buttons to exist in-universe, so that explanation wouldn’t really work.
Basically, unless we make the battle UI a real thing, sans shouldn’t be vulnerable, unless he's up against someone with 4th Wall Awareness, Ig?

Also don't know his Empathic Manipulation is listed as being limited. I guess it wouldn't work against someone with literally no sins, but that's very specific, no?
Not a fan of this wording change either. "the opponents passively feel guilt" ---> "the opponents will likely feel guilt"

And some more minor stuff (Passive abilities like the Empathy aura should be on top, Platform Creation being listed under Danmaku and Bone Manip, SI type not listed, etc.)

I call dibs on Mettaton btw

 

[StrymULTRA]

Anyway, I disagree with the added sans weakness. It's not his sleeping that lets Frisk attack him, it's them moving the Battle Box to the FIGHT button. That's why Sans always teleports Frisk back to the center when they try to reach the edge while he's awake.

It still means that he had to fall asleep. Plus this assumes that the Battle Box is literal, which is a topic that's been rejected multiple times.

The interpretation here would be Frisk just walking towards Sans and killing him.

sans shouldn’t be vulnerable, unless he's up against someone with 4th Wall Awareness, Ig?

You're overthinking this tbh, and I don't even get what you mean. The easiest interpretation is what I wrote above.

Also don't know his Empathic Manipulation is listed as being limited. I guess it wouldn't work against someone with literally no sins, but that's very specific, no?
Not a fan of this wording change either. "the opponents passively feel guilt" ---> "the opponents will likely feel guilt"

I don't know how else to type it. Frisk wasn't exactly slowed down, as you did mention that Frisk does if they feel fear in the True Lab. But here? Nothing too unusual happened.

I just don't wanna see some "Sans makes the opponent feel bad and wins" in vs threads, that's all.

And some more minor stuff (Passive abilities like the Empathy aura should be on top, Platform Creation being listed under Danmaku and Bone Manipulation, the SI type, etc.)

I just don't want to make the profile overbloated, that's all.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Oh and wtf is this. "Can ignore conventional lifting strenght with SOUL based Telekinesis."

 

[StrymULTRA]

Oh and wtf is this. "Can ignore conventional lifting strenght with SOUL based Telekinesis."

Shion sneaked that in lmfao, removed.

Ngl this is indeed reportable as he did sneak in a lot of crap without telling anyone.

 

[Robo432343]

shion should be banned for this

 

[StrymULTRA]

Y'all can make the report, idc enough to do one rn.

 

[Comiphorous]

This went from sans undertale to banning a mfer for it. only in undertale threads will you find this type of shit.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

It still means that he had to fall asleep. Plus this assumes that the Battle Box is literal, which is a topic that's been rejected multiple times.

The interpretation here would be Frisk just walking towards Sans and killing him.

Doesn't this interpretation just remove the Power Null altogether? It just boils the special attack down to sans teleporting Frisk away from him, no?

I don't know how else to type it. Frisk wasn't exactly slowed down, as you did mention that Frisk does if they feel fear in the True Lab. But here? Nothing too unusual happened.

It made them feel guilt. Magically making someone feel something is Empathic Manipulation, even if it does nothing.
If you're trying to convey that it doesn't do much, it should be listed as "Minor Empathic Manipulation"

I just don't want to make the profile overbloated, that's all.

Still. Platforms aren't Danmaku lol

 

[StrymULTRA]

Doesn't this interpretation just remove the Power Null altogether? It turns sans'special attack into nothing more than him teleporting Frisk away from him?

Right. I just didn't care enough to remove it.

Though I have no idea on how to type it, as no power is actually being nulled, it's just him using a mechanic to his advantage to prevent Frisk from attacking. I am fine to make it again just combat applicable 4th wall break.

It made them feel guilt. Magically making someone feel something is Empathic Manipulation, even if it does nothing.
If you're trying to convey that it doesn't do much, it should be listed as "Minor Empathic Manipulation."

Something like this?

- Minor Empathic Manipulation (When against Sans, the opponents will likely feel guilt as if their sins were crawling and weighting on their backs,[1] though Frisk wasn't exactly bothered from it)

Still. Platforms aren't Danmaku lol

Idk where to put it as they're part of his patterns so huh...

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Right. I just didn't care enough to remove it.

Though I have no idea on how to type it, as no power is actually being nulled, it's just him using a mechanic to his advantage to prevent Frisk from attacking. I am fine to make it again just combat applicable 4th wall break.

It deactivates Frisk’s Information Analysis, FIGHT, Item Healing and Mercy option… pretty much a powernull via 4th wall breaking.

- Minor Empathic Manipulation (When against Sans, the opponents will likely feel guilt as if their sins were crawling and weighting on their backs,[1] though Frisk wasn't exactly bothered from it)

I still don’t see why guilt wouldn’t do much, the only reason why Frisk is unaffected is because they’re doing it “because they can” regardless of morality (although they’re obviously evil).