"Here's a better question... do you wanna have bad time?" - Sans Profile Rework!

[TheOrangeGuy09]

This is a strawman of what I'm arguing.

Sans teleporting you away is part of his turn, he's not directly hindering with the buttons. Just like the bones, the teleportation is also one of his attacks, just a very low effort one compared to the rest.

Frisk being incapable of using the UI is a byproduct of the turn being extended, not necessarily a result of Sans constantly putting you at the center, different things.

You can’t even pull the box to ACT, ITEM or MERCY anyways, only attack. It’s a legit powernull via 4th Wall Breaking, stop downplaying the feat already.

 

[StrymULTRA]

You can’t even pull the box to ACT, ITEM or MERCY anyways, only attack. It’s a legit powernull via 4th Wall Breaking, stop downplaying the feat already.

Because Frisk only wants to FIGHT there? Like, tf. You cannot spare Sans, like you cannot spare Undying or NEO.

 

[Monsters_fight]

I was only 4 hours offline and now I check this thread again and I see someone´s getting banned

 

[StrymULTRA]

I was only 4 hours offline and now I check this thread again and I see someone´s getting banned

Ngl what Shion did is sus as hell, just that we're stopping him in his tracks, as otherwise that'd be an actual rule violation.

Anyway, for now no, he's not even being reported.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Because Frisk only wants to FIGHT there? Like, tf. You cannot spare Sans, like you cannot spare Undying or NEO.

Wait isn’t this… it can’t be… Strym is using a HEADCANON?
Also, even if we play by that logic, healing your HP would help greatly, and in majority of 1st attempts at this point you have 1 HP.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Frisk being incapable of using the UI is a byproduct of the turn being extended, not necessarily a result of Sans constantly putting you at the center, different things.

If this is your logic, you don't see the problem with, according to your words, "Frisk just walking towards Sans and killing him"?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Wait isn’t this… it can’t be… Strym is using a HEADCANON?
Also, even if we play by that logic, healing your HP would help greatly, and in majority of 1st attempts at this point you have 1 HP.

Enough with the accusatory tone, I am getting plenty from Shion, and you're also adding into it.

Plus that "majority of 1st attempts" is just relying on game mechanics again, as nothing says that Frisk in canon has 1 HP at the end of the fight.

If this is your logic, you don't see the problem with, according to your words, "Frisk just walking towards Sans and killing him"?

Kinda? Because FIGHTing would be just the act of attacking with the weapon you have. Idk why are you pulling extremes in "either this extremely low interpretation or this super high interpretation" while desperately fighting against my reasonable middle end.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

I just don't see the correlation, how does sans sleeping somehow mean he already took his turn? Actually, the turn doesn't even end, does it? But somehow you can attack?

 

[StrymULTRA]

I just don't see the correlation, how does sans sleeping somehow mean he already took his turn? Actually, the turn doesn't even end, does it? But somehow you can attack?

It just means that his ability to extend turns has a hole, and that you can attack in his turn as he's defenseless and has no longer control over it.

 

[ShionAH]

Tell me how would a character without Fourth Wall Awareness would know that they should push their soul outside the meta battle to the very button idea of attacking to attack Sans?

It simply gets countered by FWA

 

[StrymULTRA]

Tell me how would a character without Fourth Wall Awareness would know that they should push their soul outside the meta battle to the very button idea of attacking to attack Sans?

Frisk doesn't have it.

It simply gete countered by FWA

Already addressed above. You Sans glazers are like broken discs at this point.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Enough with the accusatory tone, I am getting plenty from Shion, and you're also adding into it.

While they've been accusatory, you're also not helping with the jokes about vote manipulation and such. You should know by now how frustrating being misrepresented can be and how in turn stuff gets heated from there. Simply avoid such jokes when already the discussion is on thin water.

Regardless, both sides should behave.

Can a summary be quickly linked so I can take an in-depth look?

 

[ShionAH]

Frisk doesn't have it

they should

You Sans glazers are like broken discs at this point.

Whut

in-depth look?

I will make my official counter arguments on Friday since I am really busy rn, but rn all my arguments are on the profile.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Can a summary be quickly linked so I can take an in-depth look?

Right.

I made this pretty big counter to the OP and then adding these two (1st has even a correction I made to his blog).

 

[StrymULTRA]

they should

What not being Kris does to a protagonist.

Show that they're aware like Kris is 1st.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I will make my official counter arguments on Friday since I am really busy rn, but rn all my arguments are on the profile.

I am willing to wait, however note other staff can give input then an admin determine the topic concluded, since I see a lot of staff giving votes already.

I made this pretty big counter to the OP and then adding these two (1st has even a correction I made to his blog).

Thank you.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Thank you.

That and me removing Power Null from his 4th wall awareness (that's combat applicable) due to it not really nullifying abilities, but preventing them from using these things, which is pretty different imo, but that can go in semantics, idk.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

It deactivates Frisk’s Information Analysis, FIGHT, Item Healing and Mercy option… pretty much a powernull via 4th wall breaking.

I'm pretty sure it was San's turn and Frisk broke that rule via 4th wall-breaking as well. Unless you're implying that all Monsters gets powernull for getting their turns?

Furthermore If Frisk chose any other option at that point Sans would just wake up which defeats the point of aiming for the attack first to end the fight as
Sans has one of the lowest durability

 

[StrymULTRA]

Unless you're implying that all Monsters gets powernull for getting their turns?

It was already tried and rejected.

Frisk broke that rule via 4th wall-breaking as well.

Idk here, as I can pretty much interpret it as a weakness of Sans' Special Attack, as Frisk could've just attacked Sans while he was also doing so in his turn before.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Frisk doesn't have it.

They're literally under the player's control, the capital meta character in UT.

And sorry but his special attack not working anymore cause he lost control over the turn or something just seems stretch. The entire basis behind it is: If I don't do anything, I don't take my turn, so Frisk won't get their turn either. Nothing about him putting effort to extend the turn or whatever.

 

[StrymULTRA]

They're literally under the player's control, the capital meta character in UT.

Nothing says they're aware of it. Show them pulling a Kris.

And sorry but his special attack not working anymore cause he lost control over the turn or something just seems stretch. The entire basis behind it is: If I don't do anything, I don't take my turn, so Frisk won't get their turn either. Nothing about him putting effort to extend the turn or whatever.

It's kinda what happens on screen and the solution that has less assumptions and without going in the canon battle box nonsense.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Enough with the accusatory tone, I am getting plenty from Shion, and you're also adding into it.

But it indeed is a headcanon, though. Unless you can show me that you can use ACT, ITEM or MERCY during Sans’ special attack, of course!

Plus that "majority of 1st attempts" is just relying on game mechanics again, as nothing says that Frisk in canon has 1 HP at the end of the fight.

They would struggle same as Flowey given he’s the representation of Genocide us.

 

[StrymULTRA]

But it indeed is a headcanon, though. Unless you can show me that you can use ACT, ITEM or MERCY during Sans’ special attack, of course!

Furthermore If Frisk chose any other option at that point Sans would just wake up which defeats the point of aiming for the attack first to end the fight as
Sans has one of the lowest durability

They would struggle same as Flowey given he’s the representation of Genocide us.

You see... we don't see how neither Chara nor Frisk react to Sans, meaning we cannot say anything. After all, if they completing a run without ever SAVing once is a thing that acknowledged from the game, I don't see why them struggling to Sans in their 1st attempt must be a canon thing too.

You're trying to force your narrative in a game where literally every possible interaction and outcome is canon, so please.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I'm pretty sure it was San's turn and Frisk broke that rule via 4th wall-breaking as well. Unless you're implying that all Monsters gets powernull for getting their turns?

Sans can indefinitely extend his turn despite it naturally going to the opponent after some time. Yeah, Frisk should have Combat Applicable 4th Wall Breaking, same as Asgore and probably Asriel.

Furthermore If Frisk chose any other option at that point Sans would just wake up which defeats the point of aiming for the attack first to end the fight as Sans has one of the lowest durability

Doesn’t matter, you cannot go with the box to any other option even if you WANT to. And anyone without 4th Wall Breaking in the similar way would not be able to even attack.

Spoiler: Here’s the sugar on the cream

The very point of the True Pacifist is that Frisk is a genuinely good person, who holds back when it comes to attacking people, as seen with Undyne fake fight, Frisk refusing to offend Amalgametes despite being forced to, or the only button being left against Asriel being SAVE…. However this was rejected anonymously by the members of this wiki. So same logic applies here, unless you want to use double standards.

You see... we don't see how neither Chara nor Frisk react to Sans, meaning we cannot say anything.

They also don’t say “Oh well let’s spare him out of interest”, yet you say they did it out of interest due to Flowey being such, so please be consistent.

After all, if they completing a run without ever SAVing once is a thing that acknowledged from the game, I don't see why them struggling to Sans in their 1st attempt must be a canon thing too.

This is not acknowledged on Genocide Route.

You're trying to force your narrative in a game where literally every possible interaction and outcome is canon, so please.

You are the one who said Flowey is representation of us on Genocide, not me.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I'll just stop replying as I'd want staff to see the things, as I already have stated my concerns and why I think it's a weakness, so repeating it over and over is not helping.

Don't wanna bloat this thread with same arguments, different words, right? We're already close at 10 pages after all.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Nothing says they're aware of it. Show them pulling a Kris.

They're under the control of the player.
The player is the only one who needs to be aware of the meta stuff for Frisk to use them.

It's kinda what happens on screen and the solution that has less assumptions and without going in the canon battle box nonsense.

I personally wouldn't consider an explanation that contradicts itself and breaks apart when you consider the mechanics of the move, the safest option, even if the other options require more assumptions.

It honestly sounds like saying that Goku broke through Hit's timeskip, because his aura was red, and Hit has a weakness to the color red.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Ngl I’ll just let this pass and make another thread to re-upgrade Sans lol

 

[StrymULTRA]

They're under the control of the player.
The player is the only one who needs to be aware of the meta stuff for Frisk to use them.

Cool, and?

It honestly sounds like saying that Goku broke through Hit's timeskip, because his aura was red, and Hit has a weakness to the color red.

Bruh what the **** is this. You're using an extremely dishonest comparison to defeat my attempt to explain a super vague thing in the way that is the most conservative and less wank.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Ngl I’ll just let this pass and make another thread to re-upgrade Sans lol

Reminder rejected stuff can't be brought up on a thread until a period of 3 months have passed

 

[StrymULTRA]

Ngl I’ll just let this pass and make another thread to re-upgrade Sans lol

• When creating content revisions, it is essential to ensure that the topic has not been addressed previously. Rejected content revisions cannot be resubmitted within a short period of time (typically defined as within 3 to 4 months), except in cases where a staff member has a good reason to do so (e.g. important unconsidered information, violation of site standards, or flaws in a calculation). This only applies to threads that have received extensive debate or have been rejected due to a clear conflict with the wiki's rules or standards. If a thread passes or is rejected without significant opposition, then opposition should not be restricted from making a point.

And if it fails enough times, discussion rule.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Reminder rejected stuff can't be brought up on a thread until a period of 3 months have passed

smth

I’m really out of options, so…

And if it fails enough times, discussion rule.

Don’t worry, it won’t get to that

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Cool, and?

"Tell me how a character without Fourth Wall Awareness would know that they should push their soul outside the meta battle to the very button idea of attacking to attack Sans?"

"Frisk doesn't have it."

This point doesn't hold up.

Bruh what the **** is this. You're using an extremely dishonest comparison to defeat my attempt to explain a super vague thing

I'll admit, my previous comparison was a bit too extreme.
A better analogy would be saying that Goku broke through Hit's timeskip just because, with no explanation beyond "it stopped working," or cause Hit’s timeskip occasionally fails when he’s distracted, even though it was specifically stated that it's not dependent on focus. It’s essentially trying to handwave a clear mechanic.

in the way that is the most conservative and less wank.

Nah, the most conservative option would be claiming that it's just plain old teleportation, with the reason behind Frisk not using ACT or ITEM simply being that they didn’t see the need to, and not because they couldn’t reach a non-existent menu. Not a fan of it, but it's still internally consistent, mostly.

 

[StrymULTRA]

This point doesn't hold up.

Ngl I've got no idea at this point lol.

Anyway, reading the rest then probably Frisk/Chara should get it too, idfk here.

Btw, if Sans is getting this Selective Intangibility, shouldn't Papyrus, Asgore and Mettaton also get it through blue/orange attacks?

I do remember also some of the Dogs using blue attacks, Pyrope using orange ones and So Sorry using both, but I don't remember who else.

 

[DaReaperMan]

All this over a character who is titanically overrated while ya'll leave every other character in the ******* dust of shitty profiles.

"Incredibly combat savvy, though she can be a tad bit naive."

Undyne

Undyne is a leader of the Royal Guard who attempts to pursue Frisk all the way throughout Waterfall. Hot-blooded and passionate, she takes her duties and honor as a Royal Guard extremely seriously, going so far as to hand Frisk a shield to defend against her barriers after preventing his escape...

vsbattles.fandom.com

This has been Undyne's intelligence section for longer then I've been on the wiki, but because she can't be properly wanked, ya'll don't give a ****.

Reminder: this is what got 95% of FNaF nuked into the Shadow Realm. Do we really need that song and dance again where all the attention is put on just one or two guys and the rest of the verse falls into being deletion worthy?

 

[StrymULTRA]

All this over a character who is titanically overrated while ya'll leave every other character in the ******* dust of shitty profiles.

"Incredibly combat savvy, though she can be a tad bit naive."

Undyne

Undyne is a leader of the Royal Guard who attempts to pursue Frisk all the way throughout Waterfall. Hot-blooded and passionate, she takes her duties and honor as a Royal Guard extremely seriously, going so far as to hand Frisk a shield to defend against her barriers after preventing his escape...

vsbattles.fandom.com

This has been Undyne's intelligence section for longer then I've been on the wiki, but because she can't be properly wanked, ya'll don't give a ****.

Reminder: this is what got 95% of FNaF nuked into the Shadow Realm. Do we really need that song and dance again where all the attention is put on just one or two guys and the rest of the verse falls into being deletion worthy?

Blame Shion for pretending that only Sans is worth of attention and the rest is irrelevant garbo lol.

I do agree that the other profiles need attention and that Sans can go **** himself for all I care tho, I just dunno how to do it either.

As I said already, as long as it's not Sans wank bs, I can give you a hand in revamping the profiles.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Mettaton's my priority at the moment. I'm sure I can get to Undyne in like, a year or two.
Of course, you can rework her if ya want too.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Undyne

Undyne is a leader of the Royal Guard who attempts to pursue Frisk all the way throughout Waterfall. Hot-blooded and passionate, she takes her duties and honor as a Royal Guard extremely seriously, going so far as to hand Frisk a shield to defend against her barriers after preventing his escape...

vsbattles.fandom.com

At least Class M (Considerably stronger than before, to the point of being)

Peak LS justification

Reminder: this is what got 95% of FNaF nuked into the Shadow Realm. Do we really need that song and dance again where all the attention is put on just one or two guys and the rest of the verse falls into being deletion worthy?

Well at least it isn’t that bad, I know a verse with profiles far worse

 

[StrymULTRA]

Well at least it isn’t that bad, I know a verse with profiles far worse

Gravity Falls where every profile that's not Bill or Ford is complete garbo lol.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Regardless imo these are the profiles of characters who desperately need a revamp:

• Papyrus
• Asgore
• Mettaton
• Undyne
• Mad Dummy
• (Maybe) Toriel
• (Maybe) Napstablook
• (Maybe) Alphys

 

[StrymULTRA]

Peak LS justification

Holy **** I don't know how that was a thing. I remember writing it fully. Fixing.